The Death of a Presidency

[The T]

Okay.

So long as when people get the insurance they want, the Insurance companies can't come back and cheat them later.

Oh. Wait. That was the problem.

They WERE cheating their customers.

They were calling acne pre-existing cancerous conditions and liver transplants "expiramental surgery"

Get it?

This was the problem that ACA was meant to address. Not just the 46 million who couldn't get insurance, but the folks who thought they had perfectly good insurance until they actually got sick and found out, not so much.

No. I don't get it.

You're just bent on arguing, Joe. You can't get it through that thick skull of yours that the ACA has failed miserably. There are parts of the ACA with merit, but the law as a whole was a sham. This is the case where the sum of the parts were greater than the whole.

Now are we going to spout rhetoric and talking points like a mindless automaton, or will you actually make a cogent point, Joe?

That you are incapable or unwilling to understand the points I've made isn't my problem, guy.

It is unacepptable that we have 46 million uninsured and 25 million underinsured.

It is unacceptable that 62% of personal bankruptcies are because someone in the family got sick.

It is unacceptable that we spend more than any nation in the world in terms of real dollars, per capita or as a percentage of GDP, and yet get the worst overall results in the advanced world.

These might be talking points to you, but in my universe, they are really problems.

The ACA has tried to fix these problems. It HAS fixed some of them. Six million people who didn't have insurance now do. Medical inflation has slowed to its lowest rate in 30 years.

When I see something struggle, I wonder why it is struggling, and who is trying to do so.

And frankly, I see a lot of interests with too much money and not enough decency.

How many of those "46 MILLION" are UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS"?

Joey? YOU are such an amateur...NOTICE Obama is pushing Immigration lately? TRY again SON...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Gee, Auditor...what I'm seeing is higher premiums pretty much across the board for people going on the exchanges without getting subsidies. I checked mine out and the comparable plan on the exchange here in Florida is about 25% higher for me. Where are you at that your premiums went down?

He would have to live in one of these states to see any drop in premium:

Colorado
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Rhode Island

I live in Ohio. I do know that for those over 60, the plans tend to be more expensive. Your age will have a big impact on the final numbers. Younger people are getting pretty good deals. We seem to forget that if you get your insurance through a company, age doesn't come into play because companies get their insurance rated based on the average age of all the employees at the company. This means that they young 25 year old pays the same as the 63 year old. Employees don't really see that because the employer is paying the bulk of the premium to begin with. Personally, I think the exchanges should have been rated on a much less progressive scale where older people only paid up to two times as much as younger people rather than up to three times, and that three times is questionable because from what I've seen, a lot of plans for those 60 and above seem to be much more than three times the premium than for those in their twenties.

Younger people are the ones getting royally screwed because the law says that insurance companies cannot charge then a price that has anything to do with their age, general health, or lack of risk factors.

 

[The T]

He would have to live in one of these states to see any drop in premium:

Colorado
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Rhode Island

I live in Ohio. I do know that for those over 60, the plans tend to be more expensive. Your age will have a big impact on the final numbers. Younger people are getting pretty good deals. We seem to forget that if you get your insurance through a company, age doesn't come into play because companies get their insurance rated based on the average age of all the employees at the company. This means that they young 25 year old pays the same as the 63 year old. Employees don't really see that because the employer is paying the bulk of the premium to begin with. Personally, I think the exchanges should have been rated on a much less progressive scale where older people only paid up to two times as much as younger people rather than up to three times, and that three times is questionable because from what I've seen, a lot of plans for those 60 and above seem to be much more than three times the premium than for those in their twenties.

Younger people are the ones getting royally screwed because the law says that insurance companies cannot charge then a price that has anything to do with their age, general health, or lack of risk factors.

Unless you're a seasoned citizen...then it's off to the IPAB showers for you...

 

[JoeB131]

[
Joey? I've been around for TWO MORE than YOU and YOU still haven't got a lick of common sense that I can ascertain...and you never will. YOU are a dupe and an enemy to yourself and your own liberty not to mention hundreds of millions of your fellow Americans.

Learn it, Live it, KNOW IT.

Guy, I was a Republican for 30 years, until my Romney Loving boss brought me into his office and told me I was being downsized because I had essentially run up too many medical bills the year before, and hey, he didn't have to deal with a union...

Sorry, man, if I'm having to live in constant fear that I might be downsized if I seek help for medical issues- which WILL become a bigger factor at my age - that isnt' "LIberty" or "Freedom" or any of the other watchwords you guys like to use.

Frankly, given the choice between being at the mercy of a government I can elect and a insurance company that can make money by letting me die, I'll take my chances with the government, thank you.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

He would have to live in one of these states to see any drop in premium:

Colorado
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Rhode Island

Ohio

How did YOUR premiums go down, Auditor when everyone else seems to have had theirs go up in Ohio?

He isn't counting the money you are paying for his premiums.

 

[The T]

Ohio

How did YOUR premiums go down, Auditor when everyone else seems to have had theirs go up in Ohio?

He isn't counting the money you are paying for his premiums.

Indeed. taxpayers subsidizing...it's all FREE don't you know?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I didn't say he was a two-term president. He lost to Clinton because of the unsuccessful Gulf War in 1991.

False.. He lost over the "Read my lips, no new taxes" pledge that he reneged on. Gulf War I was a compete success in terms of the stated goals.

Really? So Saddam Hussein was removed from power....OK, I got it now.

At what point was that the stated goal of the first Gulf War?

 

[The T]

False.. He lost over the "Read my lips, no new taxes" pledge that he reneged on. Gulf War I was a compete success in terms of the stated goals.

Really? So Saddam Hussein was removed from power....OK, I got it now.

At what point was that the stated goal of the first Gulf War?

Don't expect a cogent answer, if any at all...

 

[Amelia]

It may be a bit long winded but still. I do believe this law is and will be the death of Obama's presidency. For the remaining years to come, he will be haunted by the lies he told and the promises he broke.

Until people actually check out their exchange and find out they can get the same or better coverage for the same price or even save some money. Supposedly 5 million people have received cancellation notices, according to Fox News. 1.5 million have registered on the health exchanges, most all before the 5 million received their cancellation notices. This tells us one important fact; those who have received cancellations have not even checked out their exchange to see what is now available for them. Once they do check out their exchange, a lot of them are going to be in for a big surprise when they start to understand that they are getting a better policy for the same amount or less, and some will even be eligible for a subsidy that will further reduce how much it is going to cost them.

Now, there will be those who do end up paying more. The way it is set up is not perfect for everyone, but the fact is that more are going to benefit than be screwed. And I'm not talking out my ass here. I am one of those who is losing my insurance come the end of the year. I got my cancellation notice, and I've found a plan I am going to be very happy with. It is just slightly cheaper than what I had, and the benefits are comparable to what I had, and that is with no subsidy.

So the ends justify the means in your book?

 

[JoeB131]

Wow. You're 51 years old? Doesn't it bother you to get routinely pounded by a 26 year old? You should be. Someone my age normally wouldn't catch how utterly deceptive and dishonest you are. But I do and have. To be as gullible as you are at that age is pathetic. How can you defend a law that is inherently flawed? How do you continue plodding on in defense of Obama even after he has been undone by his own hand?

I'm genuinely shocked.

Guy, the only thinkg you prove is that at 26 you are kind of sad, given what you've said about your perosnal life, but I'm not going there.

By the time I was 26, I owned my own rental property and was an NCO in the United States Army.

But here's the thing. I've been in Government run medical systems when I was in the service. Guess what, they work pretty well, didn't cost me a dime, and I got excellent care. True, I was younger and in my prime, but the system worked.

In my 40's I got a true taste of what it is like when someone who makes money off of you doesn't want to make good on their promises. It ain't pretty. I honestly hope you never find yourself there.

Again- Obama has totally outfoxed you guys. Now it's big insurance that's going to go back to these folks and say, "Well, no, we aren't making good on our promises."

Which really was the problem all along.

 

[JoeB131]

[

If the law allows him to grant a waiver you should be able to point to the part of the law that gives him that power.

If you can't, you are free to keep making shit up lying a lying sack of shit.

Yeah, it's the part that says, "You don't like it, impeach me!"

Oh, wait. They can't.

You guys lost this argument... Obama outfoxed you, again!

 

[The T]

Wow. You're 51 years old? Doesn't it bother you to get routinely pounded by a 26 year old? You should be. Someone my age normally wouldn't catch how utterly deceptive and dishonest you are. But I do and have. To be as gullible as you are at that age is pathetic. How can you defend a law that is inherently flawed? How do you continue plodding on in defense of Obama even after he has been undone by his own hand?

I'm genuinely shocked.

Guy, the only thinkg you prove is that at 26 you are kind of sad, given what you've said about your perosnal life, but I'm not going there.

By the time I was 26, I owned my own rental property and was an NCO in the United States Army.

But here's the thing. I've been in Government run medical systems when I was in the service. Guess what, they work pretty well, didn't cost me a dime, and I got excellent care. True, I was younger and in my prime, but the system worked.

In my 40's I got a true taste of what it is like when someone who makes money off of you doesn't want to make good on their promises. It ain't pretty. I honestly hope you never find yourself there.

Again- Obama has totally outfoxed you guys. Now it's big insurance that's going to go back to these folks and say, "Well, no, we aren't making good on our promises."

Which really was the problem all along.

Too late dumbass. YOU JUST DID.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Tell you what, show me the part of the law that allows Obama to hand out retroactive waivers and I will admit you are right about everything, and switch my support fully behind Obamacare.

What will you do if you are wrong?

Hey, guy. He just did it.

Maybe you can go to the White HOuse and make a citizen's arrest.

The Secret Service would be amused.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

False.. He lost over the "Read my lips, no new taxes" pledge that he reneged on. Gulf War I was a compete success in terms of the stated goals.

Really? So Saddam Hussein was removed from power....OK, I got it now.

At what point was that the stated goal of the first Gulf War?

That would be about 5:22 pm EST on 14 November 2013.

 

[Amelia]

Until people actually check out their exchange and find out they can get the same or better coverage for the same price or even save some money. Supposedly 5 million people have received cancellation notices, according to Fox News. 1.5 million have registered on the health exchanges, most all before the 5 million received their cancellation notices. This tells us one important fact; those who have received cancellations have not even checked out their exchange to see what is now available for them. Once they do check out their exchange, a lot of them are going to be in for a big surprise when they start to understand that they are getting a better policy for the same amount or less, and some will even be eligible for a subsidy that will further reduce how much it is going to cost them.

Now, there will be those who do end up paying more. The way it is set up is not perfect for everyone, but the fact is that more are going to benefit than be screwed. And I'm not talking out my ass here. I am one of those who is losing my insurance come the end of the year. I got my cancellation notice, and I've found a plan I am going to be very happy with. It is just slightly cheaper than what I had, and the benefits are comparable to what I had, and that is with no subsidy.

Gee, Auditor...what I'm seeing is higher premiums pretty much across the board for people going on the exchanges without getting subsidies. I checked mine out and the comparable plan on the exchange here in Florida is about 25% higher for me. Where are you at that your premiums went down?

He would have to live in one of these states to see any drop in premium:

Colorado
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Rhode Island

Those are states where the average premiums decreased, correct?

He could live in almost any state and see a decrease in premium. Some here in Wisconsin have had premium decreases. I'm pretty sure I heard of some rate decreases in California. The average rates for all could still increase but some will see rate improvement.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

[

If the law allows him to grant a waiver you should be able to point to the part of the law that gives him that power.

If you can't, you are free to keep making shit up lying a lying sack of shit.

Yeah, it's the part that says, "You don't like it, impeach me!"

Oh, wait. They can't.

You guys lost this argument... Obama outfoxed you, again!

Obama proved us right, and you hate it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

That you are incapable or unwilling to understand the points I've made isn't my problem, guy.

It isn't that I'm incapable of understanding, Joe. I am incapable of being led by the hand, nor am I willing. I am incapable of deigning to such levels of cognitive dissonance as you have. Its amazing to see someone as old as you are be so misinformed.

It is unacepptable that we have 46 million uninsured and 25 million underinsured.

It is unacceptable that 5 million more are uninsured.

It is unacceptable that 62% of personal bankruptcies are because someone in the family got sick.

It is unacceptable that people have to pay higher premiums for insurance, Joe. Wanna talk about bankruptcy, just apply for Obamacare in your state. I dare you.

It is unacceptable that we spend more than any nation in the world in terms of real dollars, per capita or as a percentage of GDP, and yet get the worst overall results in the advanced world.

Well, if we didn't have people like Obama trying to destroy our healthcare system, and people actually passing serious healthcare reform, we wouldn't have to spend so much. There is too much bureaucracy in the health system as it is. Obamacare simply adds more bureaucracy and thus more expense.

These might be talking points to you, but in my universe, they are really problems.

Joe, you are a man who curses the light despite the darkness. You'd rather be blind than to see the harsh reality around you.

The ACA has tried to fix these problems. It HAS fixed some of them. Six million people who didn't have insurance now do. Medical inflation has slowed to its lowest rate in 30 years.

Key word is 'tried' to fix these problems. It was nothing more than a halfhearted attempt to do so. I would like to see what exactly this law has fixed. Where do you derive this 6 million figure from? 5 million people have no insurance because of this law! Medical inflation is irrelevant to this discussion.

When I see something struggle, I wonder why it is struggling, and who is trying to do so.

Come again? That made no sense, Joe. Care to rephrase this statement?

And frankly, I see a lot of interests with too much money and not enough decency.

What are you going to do about it exactly? Take their money away?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Oh you're gonna' make me cry......Did you think to write a eulogy like this on the day Bear Stearns failed in 2008 setting off the worst financial calamity since 1929?

On September 12, 2001 when it came to light that Condie Rice and Bush just didn't happen to read the August Presidential Daily Briefs about OBL?

Did you think to write something like this when the war in Afghanistan hit its 10th anniversary?

Nah, I didn't think so.

If it wasn't for short-sightedness, you wouldn't be able to see anything at all.

When it rained common sence whiner-bitch's bowl was upside down

Maybe he was just in the "Communicating in English" line instead. Perhaps you should have tried that.

 

[JoeB131]

Wow. You're 51 years old? Doesn't it bother you to get routinely pounded by a 26 year old? You should be. Someone my age normally wouldn't catch how utterly deceptive and dishonest you are. But I do and have. To be as gullible as you are at that age is pathetic. How can you defend a law that is inherently flawed? How do you continue plodding on in defense of Obama even after he has been undone by his own hand?

I'm genuinely shocked.

Guy, the only thinkg you prove is that at 26 you are kind of sad, given what you've said about your perosnal life, but I'm not going there.

By the time I was 26, I owned my own rental property and was an NCO in the United States Army.

But here's the thing. I've been in Government run medical systems when I was in the service. Guess what, they work pretty well, didn't cost me a dime, and I got excellent care. True, I was younger and in my prime, but the system worked.

In my 40's I got a true taste of what it is like when someone who makes money off of you doesn't want to make good on their promises. It ain't pretty. I honestly hope you never find yourself there.

Again- Obama has totally outfoxed you guys. Now it's big insurance that's going to go back to these folks and say, "Well, no, we aren't making good on our promises."

Which really was the problem all along.

Too late dumbass. YOU JUST DID.

NO, I really didn't. While he has discussed his life in other threads, I did not repeat them here.

WHich is too bad, because Templar could benefit FAR more from ObamaCare than I can. ObamaCare has no effect on my life. I already have good insurance.

Someone in his situation would benefit from it greatly. A lot of people WILL benefit from it greatly.

And for some reason, you think that's horrible because... Ummm... Freedom or something.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

[
Tell you what, show me the part of the law that allows Obama to hand out retroactive waivers and I will admit you are right about everything, and switch my support fully behind Obamacare.

What will you do if you are wrong?

Hey, guy. He just did it.

Maybe you can go to the White HOuse and make a citizen's arrest.

The Secret Service would be amused.

Maybe you could answer the question.

Sorry, I forgot who I was talking to.