The Death of a Presidency

[JoeB131]

[

What? What got you so riled up? I would have to pay higher premiums simply because of my age! What young person would want to subject themselves to that?

But here's the thing.

All insurance is gambling.

But just like if you play all day at the Casino, eventually, you are going to get a bad hand.

The sensible thing would be single payer, cradle to grave health care.

It's what every other industiralized nation does, and they benefit from lower infant mortality rates to higher life expectencies, and they do it for less money.

You see, I'm already paying higher premiums for the guy who shows up to get his strep throat treated for $500.00 that he's never going to pay that would have cost $50.00 to treat at a doctor's office.

Now, in the Ayn Randian world you live in, the solution is 'Let him die!"

In the decent world most of us live in, that's just a bad idea.

 

[TemplarKormac]

NO, I really didn't. While he has discussed his life in other threads, I did not repeat them here.

WHich is too bad, because Templar could benefit FAR more from ObamaCare than I can. ObamaCare has no effect on my life. I already have good insurance.

Someone in his situation would benefit from it greatly. A lot of people WILL benefit from it greatly.

And for some reason, you think that's horrible because... Ummm... Freedom or something.

No Joey...you did. The INTENT was there. Are all you Commies this stupid?

No, I didn't go into any details.

Sorry, man. I mean, I'd like to, because frankly, I'm just not understanding how people who would actually benefit from the ACA are opposed to it.

It doesn't affect my life one way or the other. I support it because it's the right thing to do, even if it isn't the best way to do it.

'The right thing to do' is the most paltry excuse for maintaining or keeping this law I have ever heard. Your defense is weak, your arguments are weak. I will nary benefit from this law simply because I know what it has done to so many others.

 

[oreo]

[

A statement of desperation. You were the one who got outfoxed. You were tricked into believing that the Affordable Care Act was 'affordable.' You were tricked into believing that you could keep your plan and your doctor if you liked them. He admitted that he lied. Its about time you admit that you've lost, Joe.

Guy, I still have the same Insurance plan I had. The one where I pay $80.00 a month because I am a non-smoker. ACA didn't change that, because my company's program complied with the law. And next year, I'll still keep seeing the same doctor.

Point is, the ACA isn't going anywhere. So the few people on private plans have been told Cigna and United can't use teh ACA as an excuse anymore. So here's where the rubber meets the road.

Your company? You are next up on the Obamacare hit parade. Next year, since the employer mandate was delayed.

You might want to read this;

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2010-06-17/pdf/2010-14488.pdf

Pay particular attention to page 34553 where the HHS gets to the part about Employer plans relinquishing their Grandfather status.

See ya in a year, chump.

Another great comment tonight Obama does NOT have the constitutional authority to extend the date for the employer mandate, nor the constitutional authority to extend the individual cancellations either for one year. He just did it, and gets away with it.

This should have gone to congress. Let alone the fact--that insurance companies cannot turn on a dime. For the last 4 years now they have been writing policies and getting set up for Obamacare mandates. All the teleprompter statements today--was simply so Obama has someone other than himself to blame when the state insurance commissions say NOPE we're not going to extend policies that we were told (under federal law) to get rid of.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Why are you lying to me? If the ACA indeed goes nowhere, you may very well lose your insurance when the employer mandate kicks in. Talk about the rubber meeting the road Joe. It was this sort of cockiness that destroyed our healthcare system in the first place. Perhaps you're still defending this law because it hasn't impacted you directly. So you have no idea in hell what this law is doing to people.

The point is, the ACA is going to collapse. All the symptoms are there. Higher premiums, millions more uninsured and counting, lack of enrollees. More signups in Medicare. The law is a failure. Obama finally saw the light and put it out of its misery via executive order.

Guy, you all need to stop listening to Limbaugh.

The Employer mandate has NO EFFECT on group plans that already exist. It only applies to those cheap ass companies the provide bad insurance or no insurance when they have more than 50 employees.

The ACA is going nowhere. Obama just stuck it to big insurance.

 

[auditor0007]

Ohio

There you have it. But 45 other states didn't see drops. While I'm happy that it at least worked for you, you may want to remain on your toes. This law is in serious danger of collapsing. If you're on a government sponsored insurance plan when it does, you'll lose that too.

In my state, premiums have jumped almost 170%. I would be paying an arm and a leg for even the most basic form of insurance under Obamacare.

Not much different here in Florida. And good luck getting back what you had. Delayed one year? really?

Only sensible course of action is to trash this abomination of a law.

You know, I hear so much bitching about how expensive all this insurance is, but I have a question for all of you. The fact is that we are paying $8500 per year per person in the US for healthcare. That is for every single person living here, regardless of their age or whether they are a legal citizen or not. Please tell me who you think pays for that when all of you expect to buy health insurance for $200 per month or less and have it cover all of your medical bills. Again, critical thinking comes into play. $200 per month does not come close to $8500 per year. I honestly do not understand how individuals who otherwise seem to be fairly intelligent are so out of touch with these numbers and how they affect us.

 

[TemplarKormac]

[

What? What got you so riled up? I would have to pay higher premiums simply because of my age! What young person would want to subject themselves to that?

But here's the thing.

All insurance is gambling.

But just like if you play all day at the Casino, eventually, you are going to get a bad hand.

The sensible thing would be single payer, cradle to grave health care.

It's what every other industiralized nation does, and they benefit from lower infant mortality rates to higher life expectencies, and they do it for less money.

You see, I'm already paying higher premiums for the guy who shows up to get his strep throat treated for $500.00 that he's never going to pay that would have cost $50.00 to treat at a doctor's office.

Now, in the Ayn Randian world you live in, the solution is 'Let him die!"

In the decent world most of us live in, that's just a bad idea.

Good lord. You are the worst person to reason with in this life or the next. What part of 'I don't read Ayn Rand' did you not get?

One other thing. I don't gamble with my health. I want the best plan for myself at an affordable rate. Something that WON'T put me in the poorhouse. I will not accept healthcare if it is off the back of another person. Your analogies and explanations are growing more erratic, Joe.

And stop emulating Alan Grayson. You're horrible at it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

[

Why are you lying to me? If the ACA indeed goes nowhere, you may very well lose your insurance when the employer mandate kicks in. Talk about the rubber meeting the road Joe. It was this sort of cockiness that destroyed our healthcare system in the first place. Perhaps you're still defending this law because it hasn't impacted you directly. So you have no idea in hell what this law is doing to people.

The point is, the ACA is going to collapse. All the symptoms are there. Higher premiums, millions more uninsured and counting, lack of enrollees. More signups in Medicare. The law is a failure. Obama finally saw the light and put it out of its misery via executive order.

Guy, you all need to stop listening to Limbaugh.

The Employer mandate has NO EFFECT on group plans that already exist. It only applies to those cheap ass companies the provide bad insurance or no insurance when they have more than 50 employees.

The ACA is going nowhere. Obama just stuck it to big insurance.

I don't listen to Limbaugh either, Joe. I don't listen to Limbaugh or Hannity. Bill O'Reilly is decent but I rarely watch him either.

If some guy had a supposedly sufficient plan under Obamacare, and he loses it because the law suddenly deems it as 'substandard,' just what makes you think that won't happen with your employer's insurance plan? You've proven my point very succinctly.

He didn't stick it to anything, in fact he committed seppuku right there on national television this afternoon by allowing people to keep their insurance despite them not being sufficient under the new law.

You need to deal with it. By the way, who is "you all"?

 

[percysunshine]

Guy, I still have the same Insurance plan I had. The one where I pay $80.00 a month because I am a non-smoker. ACA didn't change that, because my company's program complied with the law. And next year, I'll still keep seeing the same doctor.

Point is, the ACA isn't going anywhere. So the few people on private plans have been told Cigna and United can't use teh ACA as an excuse anymore. So here's where the rubber meets the road.

Your company? You are next up on the Obamacare hit parade. Next year, since the employer mandate was delayed.

You might want to read this;

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2010-06-17/pdf/2010-14488.pdf

Pay particular attention to page 34553 where the HHS gets to the part about Employer plans relinquishing their Grandfather status.

See ya in a year, chump.

Naw, you probably won't.

Employer mandates are for companies that employ 50 or more people and don't provide insurance.

My company employs 9000 people around the world, and self-insures. And their plan is already ACA compliant.

So just because your insurance company is dumping your "We were only kidding" plan, don't think it really effects the rest of us.

Congrats. We are in the same boat. The company you work for falls into the Large category, and the analysis includes self insured companies. So we are sitting, right now today, looking at a 45% chance of being kicked into the exchanges next year. If we are not, then our employers are going to pass on the transition tax to us and in 2 years, we will get hit with the Cadillac tax. I hope your company isn't looking to cut costs at the moment, because the easiest thing for them to do is cut you loose. Welcome to the party pal. Enjoy progressive utopia.

 

[auditor0007]

It may be a bit long winded but still. I do believe this law is and will be the death of Obama's presidency. For the remaining years to come, he will be haunted by the lies he told and the promises he broke.

Until people actually check out their exchange and find out they can get the same or better coverage for the same price or even save some money. Supposedly 5 million people have received cancellation notices, according to Fox News. 1.5 million have registered on the health exchanges, most all before the 5 million received their cancellation notices. This tells us one important fact; those who have received cancellations have not even checked out their exchange to see what is now available for them. Once they do check out their exchange, a lot of them are going to be in for a big surprise when they start to understand that they are getting a better policy for the same amount or less, and some will even be eligible for a subsidy that will further reduce how much it is going to cost them.

Now, there will be those who do end up paying more. The way it is set up is not perfect for everyone, but the fact is that more are going to benefit than be screwed. And I'm not talking out my ass here. I am one of those who is losing my insurance come the end of the year. I got my cancellation notice, and I've found a plan I am going to be very happy with. It is just slightly cheaper than what I had, and the benefits are comparable to what I had, and that is with no subsidy.

Let me guess. You went to Media Matters for your numbers.

Actually I'm basing it on what I have researched and seen personally for myself and others. I know it's not perfect and some are going to get hammered, but overall, most people are going to get good coverage for a fair price, and for many it will include some subsidies. But even without being eligible for any subsidies, I found a great plan that fits my needs and should lower my overall medical costs. The plan itself is just a bit cheaper than what I have now, but my deductible is going to double. This could cost me if I get sick, but despite having a couple of medical conditions, I am not likely to become seriously ill anytime in the near future. I don't even come close to my deductible now, so increasing it is not a big risk to me.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And before you type up another response, Joe. I am done with you and your arguments. I will not participate in a pissing contest with you.

 

[JoeB131]

No, guy, the problem here is that you've read too much Ayn Rand and have a rather immature and distorted view of the world and how people interelate to each other.

Actually, it will surprise you to know I've never read the book. I don't care for it, or for Ayn Rand. So what was that about me reading too much of her work? I have a far superior view of the world in all of my 26 years of living than you have in 51. You are outwardly hostile, overly immature and will stop at nothing to make a point, even if you distort something to do it. You remind me of a textbook Progressive Socialist.

Guy, by your own admission, you've never held down a job, never served in the military, never owned a home. I'm just not sure where this "Superior" view is coming from, exactly. I've really tried to avoid talking about your personal life here, but honestly, if you want to trot it out, what are your biggest accomplishments in life?

Here are mine-

1) Own my own business
2) Non-Commissioned Officer in the United States Army.
3) First member of my family to graduate from College (in the 1980's, this was a big deal!)
4) Successful 20 year career in logistics management.

[
Say what? And violate the 14th Amendment too? No sir, that's unconstitutional. I don't know what it is with you, but everyone deserves health care. You don't exclude people because they're rich. How absolutely ludicrous.

Where does it say in the 14th Amendment that Ed Hanaway has a right to collect money from policyholders and then not provide the coverage promised? I must have missed that part.

The essential part of this argument is, should health care be a public service, available to all, or a consumer good, available only to those who can afford it?

The answer is really obvious.

 

[auditor0007]

As a recent subscriber to this forum, I'm discovering that those who refuse to acknowledge this administration is a failure, often immediately attempts to divert attention to "it's all Bush's fault" instead of engaging in civil debate. FWIW, I enjoyed reading your post and shared the same cautious hope you did when Obama was elected. It's hard to witness the crumbling of this administration b/c it will have disastrous long term effects on our country.

How is this administration a failure? Don't you remember the condition of the country when Obama took office? Considering that republicans declared war on him from day one, not giving a crap if they destroyed the world's economy, Obama has done pretty well.

Barack Obama has overseen the worst recovery from a recession since the Great Depression.

Millions of American are STILL out of work and this Administration doesn't have a plan to put them back to work instead Barry keeps on asking for a "do over" on his first stimulus...the one that worked so badly they had to come up with a whole new economic statistic "jobs created or saved" to hide how bad it was.

It's been one scandal after another with this group of idiots! Fast & Furious. The IRS Tea Party debacle. Benghazi. Phone taps on the media.

Now we're seeing the roll out of Obama's signature legislative achievement...his "legacy"...the Affordable Care Act! It's here and it's yet ANOTHER disaster. Millions losing the policies they liked and were assured they could keep. Millions losing the doctors they liked and were assured they could keep. Millions getting increases in their health care premiums after being assured that their premiums would be lower. A web site that took over 3 years and hundreds of millions in tax payer dollars to set up only to have it crash and burn.

THAT is what you call "doing pretty well"? REALLY? Barack Obama is well on his way to claiming the prize for most ineffective American President EVER!!!

It's never as good as it sounds when it's at its best, and it's never as bad as it sounds at its worst.

 

[JoeB131]

And before you type up another response, Joe. I am done with you and your arguments. I will not participate in a pissing contest with you.

Probably a good move... you were the one getting wet!

 

[JoeB131]

[

Congrats. We are in the same boat. The company you work for falls into the Large category, and the analysis includes self insured companies. So we are sitting, right now today, looking at a 45% chance of being kicked into the exchanges next year. If we are not, then our employers are going to pass on the transition tax to us and in 2 years, we will get hit with the Cadillac tax. I hope your company isn't looking to cut costs at the moment, because the easiest thing for them to do is cut you lose. Welcome to the party pal. Enjoy progressive utopia.

yeah, guy, we've been hearing this "We're all going to DIE!!!!! DEATH PANELS!!!" stuff from you all for four years now.

You know, there's a certain point where if the sky doesn't fall, most of stop taking it seriously.

 

[auditor0007]

It may be a bit long winded but still. I do believe this law is and will be the death of Obama's presidency. For the remaining years to come, he will be haunted by the lies he told and the promises he broke.

Until people actually check out their exchange and find out they can get the same or better coverage for the same price or even save some money. Supposedly 5 million people have received cancellation notices, according to Fox News. 1.5 million have registered on the health exchanges, most all before the 5 million received their cancellation notices. This tells us one important fact; those who have received cancellations have not even checked out their exchange to see what is now available for them. Once they do check out their exchange, a lot of them are going to be in for a big surprise when they start to understand that they are getting a better policy for the same amount or less, and some will even be eligible for a subsidy that will further reduce how much it is going to cost them.

Now, there will be those who do end up paying more. The way it is set up is not perfect for everyone, but the fact is that more are going to benefit than be screwed. And I'm not talking out my ass here. I am one of those who is losing my insurance come the end of the year. I got my cancellation notice, and I've found a plan I am going to be very happy with. It is just slightly cheaper than what I had, and the benefits are comparable to what I had, and that is with no subsidy.

Check their exchange, Gracie? MY advice is to stay the Hell away from it and the 800 number and flaunt it...Civil Disobedience...WHAT good is a LAW that the POTUS willy-nilly changes on the fly for politics sake?

Folks? DO NOT COMPLY. Tell Obama and the Government outright to go fuck themselves.

Yea, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You guys have no clue what these plans look like on the exchanges. Your post proves you have no clue.

 

[candycorn]

Guy, the only thinkg you prove is that at 26 you are kind of sad, given what you've said about your perosnal life, but I'm not going there.

By the time I was 26, I owned my own rental property and was an NCO in the United States Army.

But here's the thing. I've been in Government run medical systems when I was in the service. Guess what, they work pretty well, didn't cost me a dime, and I got excellent care. True, I was younger and in my prime, but the system worked.

In my 40's I got a true taste of what it is like when someone who makes money off of you doesn't want to make good on their promises. It ain't pretty. I honestly hope you never find yourself there.

Again- Obama has totally outfoxed you guys. Now it's big insurance that's going to go back to these folks and say, "Well, no, we aren't making good on our promises."

Which really was the problem all along.

Too late dumbass. YOU JUST DID.

NO, I really didn't. While he has discussed his life in other threads, I did not repeat them here.

WHich is too bad, because Templar could benefit FAR more from ObamaCare than I can. ObamaCare has no effect on my life. I already have good insurance.

Someone in his situation would benefit from it greatly. A lot of people WILL benefit from it greatly.

And for some reason, you think that's horrible because... Ummm... Freedom or something.

A lot of destitute losers will benefit from the ACA.

 

[oreo]

[

Why are you lying to me? If the ACA indeed goes nowhere, you may very well lose your insurance when the employer mandate kicks in. Talk about the rubber meeting the road Joe. It was this sort of cockiness that destroyed our healthcare system in the first place. Perhaps you're still defending this law because it hasn't impacted you directly. So you have no idea in hell what this law is doing to people.

The point is, the ACA is going to collapse. All the symptoms are there. Higher premiums, millions more uninsured and counting, lack of enrollees. More signups in Medicare. The law is a failure. Obama finally saw the light and put it out of its misery via executive order.

Guy, you all need to stop listening to Limbaugh.

The Employer mandate has NO EFFECT on group plans that already exist. It only applies to those cheap ass companies the provide bad insurance or no insurance when they have more than 50 employees.

The ACA is going nowhere. Obama just stuck it to big insurance.

BULLSHIT--This is virus that is going to run through the employer mandate faster than a plague. Millions will lose their coverage. Why do you think they extended it?-- It is going to cost lots of jobs--because employers will not be able to afford it, they will turn full time employees into part time or simply just lay them off.

If you become a part-time employee you will be forced to join the Obamacare insurance exchange and pay out of pocket for your own insurance.

Employers have already seen this--that is why many corporations today are only working part-time employees. Da--Duh

 

[auditor0007]

It may be a bit long winded but still. I do believe this law is and will be the death of Obama's presidency. For the remaining years to come, he will be haunted by the lies he told and the promises he broke.

Until people actually check out their exchange and find out they can get the same or better coverage for the same price or even save some money. Supposedly 5 million people have received cancellation notices, according to Fox News. 1.5 million have registered on the health exchanges, most all before the 5 million received their cancellation notices. This tells us one important fact; those who have received cancellations have not even checked out their exchange to see what is now available for them. Once they do check out their exchange, a lot of them are going to be in for a big surprise when they start to understand that they are getting a better policy for the same amount or less, and some will even be eligible for a subsidy that will further reduce how much it is going to cost them.

Now, there will be those who do end up paying more. The way it is set up is not perfect for everyone, but the fact is that more are going to benefit than be screwed. And I'm not talking out my ass here. I am one of those who is losing my insurance come the end of the year. I got my cancellation notice, and I've found a plan I am going to be very happy with. It is just slightly cheaper than what I had, and the benefits are comparable to what I had, and that is with no subsidy.

Your argument doesn't last past the first sentence. People won't find better insurance on the exchanges. Premiums are 41% higher under Obamacare. As I read to your second paragraph I notice that you say "the way it is set up is not perfect for anyone."

Sir, this law isn't perfect for anyone. Unless you live in any one of the five states that actually saw drops in premiums under Obamacare, you're a liar. Most of these people LIKED their insurance. They don't need to be coerced into perusing the exchanges. If you make the claim their insurance was "substandard," according to whom? You simply don't understand. It may work for you, but for 5 million others it didn't.

Have you ever had health insurance? If so, have you ever had to use it? Have you ever been fucked by an insurance company? At your age, my bet is that it's three "no's".

 

[candycorn]

And before you type up another response, Joe. I am done with you and your arguments. I will not participate in a pissing contest with you.

Probably a good move... you were the one getting wet!

#dayum

 

[JoeB131]

[


I don't listen to Limbaugh either, Joe. I don't listen to Limbaugh or Hannity. Bill O'Reilly is decent but I rarely watch him either.

If some guy had a supposedly sufficient plan under Obamacare, and he loses it because the law suddenly deems it as 'substandard,' just what makes you think that won't happen with your employer's insurance plan? You've proven my point very succinctly.

He didn't stick it to anything, in fact he committed seppuku right there on national television this afternoon by allowing people to keep their insurance despite them not being sufficient under the new law.

You need to deal with it. By the way, who is "you all"?

It amazes me all these folks who claim they never listen to limbaugh and then repeat his talking points verbatim...

The point is, it was estimated before ACA that about 25 million people had plans that were substandard, the main glaring problem not being "maternity coverage", but the fact that these plans don't cover "Pre-existing conditions". This is not a problem with most group plans provided by employers. A co-worker of mine has to take daily shots for her arthritis and skin conditions, and frankly, no one has tried to disallow that even though she's shifted jobs a couple of times.

Now I know this is about the 20th time you predicted Obama's political demise since last year, but come on, guy, really?