The Death of a Presidency

[JoeB131]

[

BULLSHIT--This is virus that is going to run through the employer mandate faster than a plague. Millions will lose their coverage. Why do you think they extended it?-- It is going to cost lots of jobs--because employers will not be able to afford it, they will turn full time employees into part time or simply just lay them off.

If you become a part-time employee you will be forced to join the Obamacare insurance exchange and pay out of pocket for your own insurance.

Employers have already seen this--that is why many corporations today are only working part-time employees. Da--Duh

Guy, you are confused...

the Employer mandate had NO EFFECT ON EMPLOYERS WHO ALREADY PROVIDE INSURANCE.

Nor would it. They are competing for a higher caliber of employee, and frankly, most people who have something worthwhile to put on their resume aren't going to sign up for a job that doesn't offer health coverage.

The shady players, the McJobs, the company that's going to be out of business next year, yeah, they are probably going to be in trouble, but they were going to be in trouble regardless.

 

[TemplarKormac]

No, guy, the problem here is that you've read too much Ayn Rand and have a rather immature and distorted view of the world and how people interelate to each other.

Actually, it will surprise you to know I've never read the book. I don't care for it, or for Ayn Rand. So what was that about me reading too much of her work? I have a far superior view of the world in all of my 26 years of living than you have in 51. You are outwardly hostile, overly immature and will stop at nothing to make a point, even if you distort something to do it. You remind me of a textbook Progressive Socialist.

Guy, by your own admission, you've never held down a job, never served in the military, never owned a home. I'm just not sure where this "Superior" view is coming from, exactly. I've really tried to avoid talking about your personal life here, but honestly, if you want to trot it out, what are your biggest accomplishments in life?

Here are mine-

1) Own my own business
2) Non-Commissioned Officer in the United States Army.
3) First member of my family to graduate from College (in the 1980's, this was a big deal!)
4) Successful 20 year career in logistics management.

[
Say what? And violate the 14th Amendment too? No sir, that's unconstitutional. I don't know what it is with you, but everyone deserves health care. You don't exclude people because they're rich. How absolutely ludicrous.

Where does it say in the 14th Amendment that Ed Hanaway has a right to collect money from policyholders and then not provide the coverage promised? I must have missed that part.

The essential part of this argument is, should health care be a public service, available to all, or a consumer good, available only to those who can afford it?

The answer is really obvious.

You feel as if it is your duty to look down on and judge others for not meeting your standards. You feel as if people must conform to your way of thinking or be deemed an obstacle or a nuisance.

Unlike you, I've lived a more humble existence.

1) I am the only one in my family to graduate high school or anything for that matter. That's among my father, mother, grandmother, and four brothers.

2) I am currently taking care of my grandmother as a paid caretaker. I can now say that despite her income, my Grandmother felt it necessary to turn this into a means of employment for me.

3) Also I've held down three other jobs in my life as well. So misquoting me is a big mistake Joe.

4) I was .5 grade points from being the Salutatorian in the literature department at my high school.

You are the only person here that I know of who would use his own service to win a petty argument as you have. You are about as dishonorable as they come. You could have graduated cumma sum laude somewhere, but you'd still be wrong, I have proven you wrong, and when you are proven wrong you begin launching ad hominem. It's a fact of life you need to live with. You're wrong. I don't understand how someone as accomplished as you are is as gullible and malinformed as you are.


What part of the 14th Amendment says you can lie about people keeping their insurance and their doctors? Gee, I must have missed the whole 'equal protection under the law' part.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And before you type up another response, Joe. I am done with you and your arguments. I will not participate in a pissing contest with you.

Probably a good move... you were the one getting wet!

That's disgusting, Joe. Keep your sexual fantasies to yourself.

 

[percysunshine]

[

Congrats. We are in the same boat. The company you work for falls into the Large category, and the analysis includes self insured companies. So we are sitting, right now today, looking at a 45% chance of being kicked into the exchanges next year. If we are not, then our employers are going to pass on the transition tax to us and in 2 years, we will get hit with the Cadillac tax. I hope your company isn't looking to cut costs at the moment, because the easiest thing for them to do is cut you lose. Welcome to the party pal. Enjoy progressive utopia.

yeah, guy, we've been hearing this "We're all going to DIE!!!!! DEATH PANELS!!!" stuff from you all for four years now.

You know, there's a certain point where if the sky doesn't fall, most of stop taking it seriously.

If you are being honest about your situation, Obama bought you, and me, a year reprieve. But the conversion of Employer plans to exchange plans is written into the regulations from the Federal Register link. It remains to be seen what will transpire next. Adverse enrollment and the economics of writing insurance policies are real. The possibility of Congress passing a law which bankrupts the exchanges is real. If nothing changes, not enough people will be able to sign up in time, and the exchanges will fail. These are not the chicken little scenarios of global warming, they are real constructs of an overreaching bureaucracy. Good luck. We will need it.

 

[auditor0007]

Auditor's location says Toledo, Ohio which tells me that he's full of Grade A horse manure if he's claiming his premiums went down. The Society of Actuaries projected increases of 80% on average for Ohioans.

Gotta love the Obama apologists! They can't bring themselves to admit that this thing is DOA.

People who want to see bad numbers will look to sources that will give them bad numbers. Damned be the facts. This is so much of the problem. First of all, the drop in my premium is negligible. If it had gone up as much as it went down, it wouldn't have been significant enough to even worry about. But to say I am full of manure just shows how you are nothing more than a lapdog for the right. Projections of 89% increases?

Even the Republicans who were so against this said rates would increase by 41%. Now we find out that was all wrong too.

The Manhattan Institute has released an online map showing insurance premiums before and after Obamacare based on age and sex. The law's impact varies widely state to state. In Oregon, for example, rates for 40-year-old men have increased 24%. In Ohio, they have dropped 22%.

Obamacare: 5 things that have happened since the launch - CNN.com

Surprise: Forbes blogger/Obamacare critic concludes the health law will reduce Ohio premiums

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Avik Roy, a senior fellow at the conservative-leaning Manhattan Institute for Policy Research and a blogger at Forbes, has spared no criticism of Obamacare. He has been skeptical of claims that the law, formally called the Affordable Care Act, will reduce health insurance prices.
So here's a big surprise to just about anyone watching this issue closely and to Roy himself: Obamacare will reduce insurance prices on the individual market in Ohio by an average of 30 percent. That's Roy's new analysis.

Surprise: Forbes blogger/Obamacare critic concludes the health law will reduce Ohio premiums | cleveland.com

Here is a link to the Manhattan Institute's map which details old versus new rates. I would give this site more credence than most others. It does show many states with small increases, a few with small decreases, and a very few with some really big increases. The state that seems to look really out of whack is North Carolina where the rate for a 64 year old male has jumped from $215 to $613 per month. There is a big problem with this though. It is obvious that at $215 per month, those insurance plans were not being sold to anyone other than the absolute healthiest of people. To prove my point, if you compare those rates to South Carolina, you see the rate for a 64 year old male dropping from $586 per month to $574 per month. This is what many of us have talked about where insurers have sold shit plans to keep rates down in some states. In looking at both those states, the only number that is out of whack was the $215 that was charged to 64 year old males in NC in the past. From an actuarial basis, the only way that could have been done is by putting all types of caps on the plans and severely restricting who was actually able to purchase such a plan.

Manhattan Institute - The ObamaCare Impact

 

[auditor0007]

[
Joey? I've been around for TWO MORE than YOU and YOU still haven't got a lick of common sense that I can ascertain...and you never will. YOU are a dupe and an enemy to yourself and your own liberty not to mention hundreds of millions of your fellow Americans.

Learn it, Live it, KNOW IT.

Guy, I was a Republican for 30 years, until my Romney Loving boss brought me into his office and told me I was being downsized because I had essentially run up too many medical bills the year before, and hey, he didn't have to deal with a union...

Sorry, man, if I'm having to live in constant fear that I might be downsized if I seek help for medical issues- which WILL become a bigger factor at my age - that isnt' "LIberty" or "Freedom" or any of the other watchwords you guys like to use.

Frankly, given the choice between being at the mercy of a government I can elect and a insurance company that can make money by letting me die, I'll take my chances with the government, thank you.

It doesn't hit you until the insurance company royally fucks you in one way or another, whether it is direct or indirect. Most people do not understand that and won't until it happens to them. That, more than anything, is the reason behind the ACA. If Republicans had ever dealt with this in some way, things might be much different today.

 

[auditor0007]

Ohio

How did YOUR premiums go down, Auditor when everyone else seems to have had theirs go up in Ohio?

He isn't counting the money you are paying for his premiums.

I'm paying for all of my premium asshat.

 

[TemplarKormac]

What some people are failing to do is debate the subject matter of this thread. People like Joe would rather insult me instead. Perhaps people can address the fact that Obama is now taking responsibility and ACKNOWLEDGING THE FAILURE OF HIS OWN LAW. If liberals here cannot handle that, that's not my fault. Take it straight from the horse's mouth.

 

[auditor0007]

How did YOUR premiums go down, Auditor when everyone else seems to have had theirs go up in Ohio?

He isn't counting the money you are paying for his premiums.

Indeed. taxpayers subsidizing...it's all FREE don't you know?

Yay, another clueless waste of space between the ears.

 

[TemplarKormac]

He isn't counting the money you are paying for his premiums.

Indeed. taxpayers subsidizing...it's all FREE don't you know?

Yay, another clueless waste of space between the ears.

Yay! Another liberal who can't stop calling people stupid. Looked in the mirror lately?

 

[auditor0007]

It may be a bit long winded but still. I do believe this law is and will be the death of Obama's presidency. For the remaining years to come, he will be haunted by the lies he told and the promises he broke.

Until people actually check out their exchange and find out they can get the same or better coverage for the same price or even save some money. Supposedly 5 million people have received cancellation notices, according to Fox News. 1.5 million have registered on the health exchanges, most all before the 5 million received their cancellation notices. This tells us one important fact; those who have received cancellations have not even checked out their exchange to see what is now available for them. Once they do check out their exchange, a lot of them are going to be in for a big surprise when they start to understand that they are getting a better policy for the same amount or less, and some will even be eligible for a subsidy that will further reduce how much it is going to cost them.

Now, there will be those who do end up paying more. The way it is set up is not perfect for everyone, but the fact is that more are going to benefit than be screwed. And I'm not talking out my ass here. I am one of those who is losing my insurance come the end of the year. I got my cancellation notice, and I've found a plan I am going to be very happy with. It is just slightly cheaper than what I had, and the benefits are comparable to what I had, and that is with no subsidy.

So the ends justify the means in your book?

It's okay to screw certain people in your book, but I can't screw anyone in mine? Just saying... nothing is perfect. I would hope they will address some of the shortcomings of the program. Of course, Republicans could have been doing this all along instead of trying to destroy this thing from the get go.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Perhaps you would benefit from knowledge instead of swallowing talking points and spewing them out the back end:

 

[JoeB131]

[

You feel as if it is your duty to look down on and judge others for not meeting your standards. You feel as if people must conform to your way of thinking or be deemed an obstacle or a nuisance.

Unlike you, I've lived a more humble existence.

1) I am the only one in my family to graduate high school or anything for that matter. That's among my father, mother, Grandmother, and four brothers.

2) I am currently taking care of my grandmother as a paid caretaker. I can now say that despite her income, my Grandmother felt it necessary to turn this into a means of employment for me.

3) Also I've held down three other jobs in my life as well. So misquoting me is a big mistake Joe.

4) I was .5 grade points from being the Salutatorian in the literature department at my high school.

So nothing really very impressive.

Again, I graduated from college at a time when BOth of my parents had terminal cancer, I had to hold down two part time jobs and serve in the National Guard to pay my way through, and somehow, I managed to hold it all together. Because I didn't have a choice. Failure was not an option.

You are the only person here that I know of who would use his own service to win a petty argument as you have. You are about as dishonorable as they come.

No, I point it out because a lot of you guys who would happily sign up for "pointless war of the week" don't appreciate what you are signing folks up for because it'll never happen to you.

[
You could have graduated cumma sum laude somewhere, but you'd still be wrong, I have proven you wrong, and when you are proven wrong you begin launching ad hominem. It's a fact of life you need to live with. You're wrong. I don't understand how someone as accomplished as you are is as gullible and malinformed as you are.

Guy, here's the thing. I used to be more right wing than you are and usually argued the point better than saying "You're wrong, you big meanyhead!", which is what most of your arguments consist of.

And then I learned the error of my ways. Real life broadsided me and I realized that if we don't look out for each other, we are on our own. It's a lesson I honestly hope you never have to learn.

What part of the 14th Amendment says you can lie about people keeping their insurance and their doctors? Gee, I must have missed the whole 'equal protection under the law' part.

Oh, my God, a politician didn't do what he said!!!!

That's like saying you went to a house of ill-repute and didn't feel loved.

Or that you went to a Denny's and the food wasn't any good!

Okay, my usual snark out of the way,

Obama shouldn't have said it that way.
Bush shouldn't have said "Mission Accomplished".
His Pappy shouldn't have said "Read my lips".

We all say things that we totally mean when we say them. And then we find out that all those other human beings we have to interact with as a civilized society are going to find ways to muck it up. Politicians are no different than the rest of us. We make promises we think we can keep and we can't.

I'm sure that Obama thought that when the Insurance Companies helped design the ACA to avoid getting a single payer system, that they would sincerely do everything they could to make it work.

Okay, I'm tired, I'm getting too philosophical and I'm done for the night.

 

[JoeB131]

Perhaps you would benefit from knowledge instead of swallowing talking points and spewing them out the back end:

The key word there being "Immediately".

They shop around, the exchanges get going, a few entrepenuers find ways to make it work, the problems sort themselves out.

 

[JoeB131]

And before you type up another response, Joe. I am done with you and your arguments. I will not participate in a pissing contest with you.

Probably a good move... you were the one getting wet!

That's disgusting, Joe. Keep your sexual fantasies to yourself.

You opened the door...

 

[auditor0007]

Younger people are the ones getting royally screwed because the law says that insurance companies cannot charge then a price that has anything to do with their age, general health, or lack of risk factors.

You do realize that if a young person gets his/her insurance through an employer, the rate is the same as for the oldest person working at that company, right? Yet you bitch about the young person who you think should pay almost nothing for their coverage while we charge a person near retirement more than their house payment.

What? What got you so riled up? I would have to pay higher premiums simply because of my age! What young person would want to subject themselves to that?

Maybe a young person who actually planned on getting old and would one day be facing much much higher rates because the pool was not evened out at all to begin with. That is my point; in employer pools, the rates are the same regardless of your age. Employees generally don't realize this because they only pay a small percentage of the premium. In the old private market and now on the exchanges, the opposite is true. We give the young people the super cheap rates, but when they get older, they will pay out the ass. For some it will be more than they can afford. Those currently getting nailed are those over 60 who have incomes that are just over 400% of poverty level as they receive no subsidy. Medical costs for them will be extremely high, but you are crying about having to pay an extra $50 per month, possibly.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Okay, I'm tired, I'm getting too philosophical and I'm done for the night.

I will spare myself the invective and take this concession of defeat with all due grace. You are throwing essays at me, not fact. Nothing to do with the thread, you can't even argue the thread and you never did.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Probably a good move... you were the one getting wet!

That's disgusting, Joe. Keep your sexual fantasies to yourself.

You opened the door...

Actually you did. I slammed it in your face, you kept yelling through it. Audibly. Perhaps in your own peverted little word would someone find such language acceptable, not here.

 

[JoeB131]

What some people are failing to do is debate the subject matter of this thread. People like Joe would rather insult me instead. Perhaps people can address the fact that Obama is now taking responsibility and ACKNOWLEDGING THE FAILURE OF HIS OWN LAW. If liberals here cannot handle that, that's not my fault. Take it straight from the horse's mouth.

Guy, you are reading waaaaay to much into a political manuever.

You apologize, you eat some crow, you still end up getting most of what you want because you are making a good faith effort.

The net result is that for the next year, people can keep crappy policies, but now they know they are crappy and have a lifespan which will encourage them to look for other products while the companies that are hungry for the business will meet their needs.

 

[JoeB131]

That's disgusting, Joe. Keep your sexual fantasies to yourself.

You opened the door...

Actually you did. I slammed it in your face, you kept yelling through it. Audibly. Perhaps in your own peverted little word would someone find such language acceptable, not here.

Guy, you are the one who used the term "Pissing contest"...

and then you've spent two pages answering me back after you said you weren't going to.

What? You didn't keep your promise.

This is a complete and other failure on your part, clearly an admission of defeat!

(You see where I'm going here, right?)