The downside of carrying a firearm...

[OODA_Loop]

There is no downside to carrying a weapon. Unless you are looking at it from the point of view of the would-be rapist/robber/thug.

There is plenty of potential downside.

Many CCW'ers do not have the mindset.

Many, but it is not typical.

CCW holders have a much lower crime conviction rate of any other demographic on the books, except for maybe Amish lesbian paraplegics.

I am not talking about CCW's committing illegal acts.

 

[Ava]

"The downside of carrying a firearm.."

I prefer to look at the upside. You can find them all right here:

Why Carry a Gun - Looking at Reasons Why People Carry Concealed Handguns Firearms


It’s a Dangerous World

If this world wasn’t dangerous, we wouldn’t have any debate about guns. But it most certainly is, and one must choose whether to live in denial that anything bad can happen, or accept reality and prepare oneself as best you can to protect yourself and your loved ones from whatever threat may arise.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The cop only did what millions of us would love to do but are not crazy enough. They should have stopped texting, I guess.

Look what happens when the entire population thinks they live in a bubble of narcissism. We should outlaw cell phones.

The number of people being killed while driving on cell phones is a lot. But miniscule compared to gun killings.

Wrong

 

[JimBowie1958]

There is plenty of potential downside.

Many CCW'ers do not have the mindset.

How many is many?

Very few murders are committed by people who follow all the legal steps to get a carry permit.

If your mindset is to take the fight to an armed confrontation or come to the rescue.

Your mindset has fucked you before you ever clear leather.

But gun ownership is an ego game and gun owners know everything.

Wow, lol, that is a bit categorical, is it not?

 

[JimBowie1958]

There is plenty of potential downside.

Many CCW'ers do not have the mindset.

Many, but it is not typical.

CCW holders have a much lower crime conviction rate of any other demographic on the books, except for maybe Amish lesbian paraplegics.

I am not talking about CCW's committing illegal acts.

OK, but what are you talking about then?

 

[OODA_Loop]

How many is many?

Very few murders are committed by people who follow all the legal steps to get a carry permit.

If your mindset is to take the fight to an armed confrontation or come to the rescue.

Your mindset has fucked you before you ever clear leather.

But gun ownership is an ego game and gun owners know everything.

Wow, lol, that is a bit categorical, is it not?

Yes.

 

[Spoonman]

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence ? Gun Law Information Experts

In 2010, guns took the lives of 31,076 Americans in homicides, suicides and unintentional shootings. This is the equivalent of more than 85 deaths each day and more than three deaths each hour.1

73,505 Americans were treated in hospital emergency departments for non-fatal gunshot wounds in 2010.2

Guns were used in 11,078 homicides in the U.S. in 2010, comprising almost 35% of all gun deaths, and over 68% of all homicides.6

On average, 33 gun homicides were committed each day for the years 2005-2010.7

Regions and states with higher rates of gun ownership have significantly higher rates of homicide than states with lower rates of gun ownership.8

Where guns are prevalent, there are significantly more homicides, particularly gun homicides.9

Firearms were used in 19,392 suicides in the U.S. in 2010, constituting almost 62% of all gun deaths.10

Over 50% of all suicides are committed with a firearm

In 2010, unintentional firearm injuries caused the deaths of 606 people.18

From 2005-2010, almost 3,800 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings.19

Over 1,300 victims of unintentional shootings for the period 2005–2010 were under 25 years of age

stop focusing on guns, start focusing on the problem. its a cultural thing.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Many, but it is not typical.

CCW holders have a much lower crime conviction rate of any other demographic on the books, except for maybe Amish lesbian paraplegics.

I am not talking about CCW's committing illegal acts.

OK, but what are you talking about then?

I'm talking about the vast majority of CCW have a misunderstood command of the civilian defensive firearm. This is from most often no civilian combative concept training or poor training. Most gun owners cannot be told or taught anything.

 

[Mudflap]

I am not talking about CCW's committing illegal acts.

OK, but what are you talking about then?

I'm talking about the vast majority of CCW have a misunderstood command of the civilian defensive firearm. This is from most often no civilian combative concept training or poor training. Most gun owners cannot be told or taught anything.

I don't agree with you, but will admit that I'm pretty much set in my ways. I don't personally know any gun owners who own only one weapon, bought it for "self defense," and don't know how to handle it.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I am not talking about CCW's committing illegal acts.

OK, but what are you talking about then?

I'm talking about the vast majority of CCW have a misunderstood command of the civilian defensive firearm. This is from most often no civilian combative concept training or poor training. Most gun owners cannot be told or taught anything.

That is exactly the opposite of my experiences and the facts support me. Police officers are far more likely to engage in unlawful shootings than are CCW holders.

Cops More Likely To Murder? ? LewRockwell.com

The question arose, how often do police officers commit homicide compared to concealed carry permit holders? Of the two, which is more common?

It appears that a person is three times safer with a concealed carry permit holder than they are with a police officer.

Attempting to determine how the homicide rate of people with CCW permits compares to that of police officers is not an easy task. There are several sources that show that people with CCW permits are far more law abiding than the general population.

One would like to believe that the same is true for police officers, but data is much harder to obtain for them. Agencies that employ sworn officers do not like to tarnish their name with the misdeeds of officers, and unlike a few states that track crimes committed by CCW permit holders, I do not know of any government database of crimes committed by peace officers.

The best reported crimes are homicides. It is a significant event that is difficult to ignore. There is usually a body. Media usually reports all the homicides that they learn of.

I have had military training and several different weapons courses as a civilian working for different security companies prior to finishing my degree.

Without exception the people that train the students said that the police had the bad apples more often than the civilians. I have heard more stories about stupid cop tricks with guns than anyone else, like a guy in DC at a New Years Eve celebration who, while dancing with his date, pulled his gun out, put it to his head and BAAM the gun went off. They had just converted from use of DA revolvers to Glocks. Bad thing to drink while carrying your gun, but that only applies to civilians apparently.

Then there is the eternally classic...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeGD7r6s-zU]DEA Agent - YouTube[/ame]

Anyone can make a mistake, no matter how careful. Sometimes you just have a bad day and go on automotor response most of them time.

But the stats show that CCW holders are more careful than cops are, for whatever reason.

Maybe we should disarm our police forces as well?

 

[OODA_Loop]

OK, but what are you talking about then?

I'm talking about the vast majority of CCW have a misunderstood command of the civilian defensive firearm. This is from most often no civilian combative concept training or poor training. Most gun owners cannot be told or taught anything.

I don't agree with you, but will admit that I'm pretty much set in my ways. I don't personally know any gun owners who own only one weapon, bought it for "self defense," and don't know how to handle it.

Handling and shooting your new uber-tactical pew pew you bought is not understanding civilian combative concepts.

 

[JimBowie1958]

OK, but what are you talking about then?

I'm talking about the vast majority of CCW have a misunderstood command of the civilian defensive firearm. This is from most often no civilian combative concept training or poor training. Most gun owners cannot be told or taught anything.

I don't agree with you, but will admit that I'm pretty much set in my ways. I don't personally know any gun owners who own only one weapon, bought it for "self defense," and don't know how to handle it.

I knew a few back in Texas, where almost every family with a male head of house has at least one gun. For many gun ownership is just something that has come with each generation and there is no military service or CCW training to own. It is just a thing they do and think it natural.

I think they are right, it is totally natural to own a weapon. But training is a good thing they should get anyway.

 

[OODA_Loop]

OK, but what are you talking about then?

I'm talking about the vast majority of CCW have a misunderstood command of the civilian defensive firearm. This is from most often no civilian combative concept training or poor training. Most gun owners cannot be told or taught anything.

That is exactly the opposite of my experiences and the facts support me. Police officers are far more likely to engage in unlawful shootings than are CCW holders.

If tell you upfront what I am going to ask if bereft of ego on my end can you respond without ego ?

What and from whom formal training have you had ?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Police: Texting argument in movie theater sparks fatal shooting - CNN.com

It is more of a mental health issue. This was a retired cop, but it could have been anyone with a carry permit. Pretty sad

Have mixed feelings about this one. On the one hand, if someone's on a mobile device in a theatre it's rude. Wanna tap away get up and go outside. And if someone asks you to put it away, do so, or go outside. Not that hard. So I wouldn't put this as some innocent guy got shot so much as someone who refused to abide by common sense and polite manners got shot. Plus, in a dark theatre, if you're a 71 year old guy facing off some younger guy and suddenly something hits you, overreacting and shooting isn't like in another situation where you can see clearly and don't feel threatened. So the news coverage painting this as some mean cop overreacting isn't giving the real picture of what happened. Seems more like they're using it as another 'let's regulate guns some more' excuse. No regulations or law would have changed this as presumedly, retired law enforcement will always have a weapon on hand if they want one. So using it as a gun control story isn't valid.

On the other hand, lethal force wasn't justifed. After the popcorn or whatever hits you, and you know you're not injured and the confrontation isn't escalating in force, escalating your defense to include lethal force isn't lawful nor is it justified. Wouldn't say 2nd degree murder though. Manslaughter more like.

 

[OODA_Loop]

A defensive gun in your home and a defensive gun on your hip in public are not the same animal.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Police: Texting argument in movie theater sparks fatal shooting - CNN.com

It is more of a mental health issue. This was a retired cop, but it could have been anyone with a carry permit. Pretty sad

Have mixed feelings about this one. On the one hand, if someone's on a mobile device in a theatre it's rude. Wanna tap away get up and go outside. And if someone asks you to put it away, do so, or go outside. Not that hard. So I wouldn't put this as some innocent guy got shot so much as someone who refused to abide by common sense and polite manners got shot. Plus, in a dark theatre, if you're a 71 year old guy facing off some younger guy and suddenly something hits you, overreacting and shooting isn't like in another situation where you can see clearly and don't feel threatened. So the news coverage painting this as some mean cop overreacting isn't giving the real picture of what happened. Seems more like they're using it as another 'let's regulate guns some more' excuse. No regulations or law would have changed this as presumedly, retired law enforcement will always have a weapon on hand if they want one. So using it as a gun control story isn't valid.

On the other hand, lethal force wasn't justifed. After the popcorn or whatever hits you, and you know you're not injured and the confrontation isn't escalating in force, escalating your defense to include lethal force isn't lawful nor is it justified. Wouldn't say 2nd degree murder though. Manslaughter more like.

Moral: Don't fuck with old men.

 

[Spoonman]

A defensive gun in your home and a defensive gun on your hip in public are not the same animal.

sure they are. at least until you can gaurantee me i won't be attacked in either place. and now that is just the civilian issue. don't even get me started on the right to protect ourselves from tyranical governments. which is the real reason citizens need to be armed

 

[Spoonman]

Police: Texting argument in movie theater sparks fatal shooting - CNN.com

It is more of a mental health issue. This was a retired cop, but it could have been anyone with a carry permit. Pretty sad

Have mixed feelings about this one. On the one hand, if someone's on a mobile device in a theatre it's rude. Wanna tap away get up and go outside. And if someone asks you to put it away, do so, or go outside. Not that hard. So I wouldn't put this as some innocent guy got shot so much as someone who refused to abide by common sense and polite manners got shot. Plus, in a dark theatre, if you're a 71 year old guy facing off some younger guy and suddenly something hits you, overreacting and shooting isn't like in another situation where you can see clearly and don't feel threatened. So the news coverage painting this as some mean cop overreacting isn't giving the real picture of what happened. Seems more like they're using it as another 'let's regulate guns some more' excuse. No regulations or law would have changed this as presumedly, retired law enforcement will always have a weapon on hand if they want one. So using it as a gun control story isn't valid.

On the other hand, lethal force wasn't justifed. After the popcorn or whatever hits you, and you know you're not injured and the confrontation isn't escalating in force, escalating your defense to include lethal force isn't lawful nor is it justified. Wouldn't say 2nd degree murder though. Manslaughter more like.

Moral: Don't fuck with old men.

don't fuck with anyone. stop being an arrogant douche and respect others

 

[Mudflap]

I'm talking about the vast majority of CCW have a misunderstood command of the civilian defensive firearm. This is from most often no civilian combative concept training or poor training. Most gun owners cannot be told or taught anything.

I don't agree with you, but will admit that I'm pretty much set in my ways. I don't personally know any gun owners who own only one weapon, bought it for "self defense," and don't know how to handle it.

Handling and shooting your new uber-tactical pew pew you bought is not understanding civilian combative concepts.[/QUOTE]

No, it doesn't. If I don't hunt squirrels I'm still allowed to own a .22 rifle.

 

[OODA_Loop]

A defensive gun in your home and a defensive gun on your hip in public are not the same animal.

sure they are. at least until you can gaurantee me i won't be attacked in either place. and now that is just the civilian issue. don't even get me started on the right to protect ourselves from tyranical governments. which is the real reason citizens need to be armed

We are speaking about the tactical deployment thereof not the right.