The Duke of Windser was a Nazi

[Mushroom]

Nope. Hitler split from the Socialists in 1926.

No, he did not. The NSDAP was always a Socialist movement. Just as the Fascists were always a Communist inspired National Socialist movement.

However, since a great many Communists try to lay claim to all of Socialism as their own creation and property, they hate having this known by others.

Mussolini was a lifelong Socialist, form a family of lifelong Socialists. He was only kicked out of the Communist Party that he helped found because he realized that Internationalism was not the answer. And Hitler idolized Mussolini.

Whenever people try to claim the NSDAP "split" from the "Socialists", what they really mean to say is that they "split" from the International Socialists (Communists). And that is true because they were always opposites. However, they did have the support of the Socialists that wanted the Monarchy restored. However, they eventually drifted off to the KPD and SPD. Which largely were weak because they were so distracted in trying to fight each other that the ignored the smaller and rising party in the background.

 

[Mushroom]

We all know socialism means that the means of production are owned by the entire population equally, and that the products of that production are then granted to those who need them.

No, that is Collectivism. Which is a key part of Communism. That in itself is not "Socialism".

Nothing about "Socialism" demands that production be turned over to anybody. That is something rather unique to Communism (more specifically Marxism) and no form of Socialism on the planet.

Hell, look how often people try to point to countries like Sweden and claim they are "Socialist Countries". There are a hell of a lot of countries that are "Socialist" to one degree or another, yet Collectivism really only exists in those based on the scribblings of Marx.

The problem I keep finding is that Marxists want to control not only everything, but they want to control facts and definitions. They are so obsessed with the scribblings of a professional homeless dude that they tend to believe he is the Prophet, and everything he wrote down is the Absolute Truth as passed down from On High. It is more akin to religion than anything else.

And excuse me as I laugh.

Italy and Germany of that time, though, were not socialist, at all. They had both started their careers as socialists, but then they each left those parties and created their own, ditching the promise of equality (backbone of socialism) completely.

Yes, they were. And no, Mussolini did not 'start his career" as a Socialist, he was a hard core Communist. The editor of the largest Communist Newspapers in Italy. One of the top of the top leaders int eh Italian Communist Party. However, Italy like a great many other Communist movements in various nations started to tear themselves apart as they found they could not just sit back and see their countries torn apart during WWI. Der Lamp Ornament was one of them, and he did not leave the Italian Communist Party, they excommunicated him. Because as the war went on he started to advocate for Italian Communists to support Italy if that was their choice.

In other words, he was a heretic. And as with all religious movements, one must banish heretics. But that was not even the first such case between Nationalist and Internationalist Socialists. The exact same thing happened in China at around the same time. When Socialist and Nationalist Dr Sun founded the modern Socialist movement in China. However, after he died the government split in two, which lead to the funny fact that both the CCP and the KMG both see Dr. Sun as their "founder", even as both were trying to destroy each other.

 

[Moonglow]

Duke of Windsor wanted 'closest cooperation' with Hitler's Germany, letter claims

The Duke of Windsor wanted "the closest cooperation" with Adolf Hitler's Germany in 1936, according to a newly emerged letter.

www.yahoo.com

I think every government has those within it that attempt to sell out to countries that wish to destroy them.

This is just more proof.

You are aware that the British royalty is Germanic?

 

[surada]

No, he did not. The NSDAP was always a Socialist movement. Just as the Fascists were always a Communist inspired National Socialist movement.

However, since a great many Communists try to lay claim to all of Socialism as their own creation and property, they hate having this known by others.

Mussolini was a lifelong Socialist, form a family of lifelong Socialists. He was only kicked out of the Communist Party that he helped found because he realized that Internationalism was not the answer. And Hitler idolized Mussolini.

Whenever people try to claim the NSDAP "split" from the "Socialists", what they really mean to say is that they "split" from the International Socialists (Communists). And that is true because they were always opposites. However, they did have the support of the Socialists that wanted the Monarchy restored. However, they eventually drifted off to the KPD and SPD. Which largely were weak because they were so distracted in trying to fight each other that the ignored the smaller and rising party in the background.

Hitler split from the Socialists in 1926.. Mussolini did the same thing a few years earlier. Hitler hated Socialists, Communists, Jews and Democrats. That's why he killed them or put them in Dachau.

 

[surada]

No, he did not. The NSDAP was always a Socialist movement. Just as the Fascists were always a Communist inspired National Socialist movement.

However, since a great many Communists try to lay claim to all of Socialism as their own creation and property, they hate having this known by others.

Mussolini was a lifelong Socialist, form a family of lifelong Socialists. He was only kicked out of the Communist Party that he helped found because he realized that Internationalism was not the answer. And Hitler idolized Mussolini.

Whenever people try to claim the NSDAP "split" from the "Socialists", what they really mean to say is that they "split" from the International Socialists (Communists). And that is true because they were always opposites. However, they did have the support of the Socialists that wanted the Monarchy restored. However, they eventually drifted off to the KPD and SPD. Which largely were weak because they were so distracted in trying to fight each other that the ignored the smaller and rising party in the background.

Do some serious reading. You're completely wrong.

 

[Mushroom]

You are aware that the British royalty is Germanic?

Well, I would say only because of Prince Albert really. I can't think of a single Royal Family in Europe that does not have a good sprinkling of Queen Victoria's descendants among them. She married off her children and grandchildren, so almost every single "Royal Family" from Italy and Greece to Norway, Spain, and former ones like Russia can be pointed back to her. And her German husband.

So that is really a misnomer. In fact, for around a century by then British monarchs were marrying into the German nobility, as they were seen as not being a threat to their Empire. And marrying off sons and daughters into other royal lines, as a way to bring them closer. It is rather interesting looking at the Royal Line of the UK, as that can be easily seen. The King (or in one case reigning Queen) would marry a German Princess (or Prince), but then spread their children among the other houses of Europe. Spain, Italy, Greece, Sweden, Norway, and most others.

Interestingly, about the only one I could find not related closely to Vicky was the Royal Family of Portugal. Although they were distantly related through their common Saxe-Coburg lines and the grandfather of the last King of Portugal was on the "short list" to marry Queen Victoria (but his uncle the King of Belgium encouraged him to marry an Italian Princess instead of another reigning monarch).

But from the fifteenth century on the sons and daughters of German aristocracy was much in demand for spouses of European royal families. Most had little to no real power back home as Germany was a fractured amalgam of principalities. That meant they had the "pedigree" to marry into another royal family, but not the kinds of things that would cause their spouses problems. Where as a Spanish Dowager could be seen as asserting influence on their spouse or children to favor Spain, the prince or princess of one of a dozen often warring Germanic principalities was not seen to be such a threat to the crown.

 

[Mushroom]

Do some serious reading. You're completely wrong.

I am? Mussolini was not a high ranking leader of the Italian Communist Party?

Hitler did not idolize him and tried to copy his government in Germany?

This is why I laugh. I can list a slew of facts, and you just say "you are wrong" with no real reason. Other than just throwing out some nonsense.

However, you see to be yet another that believes "Socialists" and "Communists" are the same thing. You simply can not comprehend Socialists that are not Communists.

 

[DudleySmith]

There was no 'Germany' until the 1870's. "Italy' was a new country as well. The U.S. is older than both by many decades.

 

[Mushroom]

There was no 'Germany' until the 1870's. "Italy' was a new country as well. The U.S. is older than both by many decades.

Not as we know of it as, just as there was no "Italy" as we know it today.

What it was was an area of principalities, warring with each other about as often as with other countries. But after Napoleon tried to unify it into a single country and the almost times that Prussia almost unified all of them there were people starting to think of all those Principalities as a potential single country. Even their "unification" was a compromise, as the new Prussian Kaiser put his capitol in Brandenburg. Still part of traditional Prussia, but far enough east that the rest of the former principalities would not feel they were isolated from power.

A compromise not unlike that which placed the US capitol in a Virginia swamp on the border with Maryland.

 

[surada]

I am? Mussolini was not a high ranking leader of the Italian Communist Party?

Hitler did not idolize him and tried to copy his government in Germany?

This is why I laugh. I can list a slew of facts, and you just say "you are wrong" with no real reason. Other than just throwing out some nonsense.

However, you see to be yet another that believes "Socialists" and "Communists" are the same thing. You simply can not comprehend Socialists that are not Communists.

You're arrogant to assume others don't know the difference between Socialists and Communists.

Look up the Enabling Act of 1933. That's what Hitler used to purge the German government of socialists, communists, Jews and Democrats.

 

[alexa]

I am? Mussolini was not a high ranking leader of the Italian Communist Party?

Hitler did not idolize him and tried to copy his government in Germany?

This is why I laugh. I can list a slew of facts, and you just say "you are wrong" with no real reason. Other than just throwing out some nonsense.

However, you see to be yet another that believes "Socialists" and "Communists" are the same thing. You simply can not comprehend Socialists that are not Communists.

Fascist Parties have always been against Unions, against the power of the working class. They enjoy Corporate Capitalism. Both Nazi Germany and Mussolini's Italy were like that. They hated socialism and Communism which is why they rounded them up and disposed of them. The Nazi's used the word Socialist in their name in the hope that some people would think they were socialist and so vote for them but they never worked as socialists do. After WW2 they knew how easy it was for Corporate Capitalism to turn into fascism which is why until Thatcher/Reagan the intent was to not allow Monopolies and to have restrictions so that capitalism did not become so strong that it destroyed Democracy. This is the problem we have again now.

 

[alexa]

Duke of Windsor wanted 'closest cooperation' with Hitler's Germany, letter claims

The Duke of Windsor wanted "the closest cooperation" with Adolf Hitler's Germany in 1936, according to a newly emerged letter.

www.yahoo.com

I think every government has those within it that attempt to sell out to countries that wish to destroy them.

This is just more proof.

Most of the aristocracy of the UK supported Hitler for a long time. There is film of Queen Elizabeth as a child following the Duke of Windsor with the Nazi salute.

 

[Mushroom]

Fascist Parties have always been against Unions, against the power of the working class.

You mean as opposed to Communists, which also hate any unions that they themselves do not control?

Don't see your point there, to be honest. Are you not aware that the Soviets and all other Marxist governments outlawed any unions they themselves did not control? Why do you think they were trying so damned hard to outlaw and eliminate Solidarity?

That is simply how totalitarian governments operate. Does not matter if they are National Socialist or International Socialist.

 

[Mushroom]

Look up the Enabling Act of 1933. That's what Hitler used to purge the German government of socialists, communists, Jews and Democrats.

As opposed to say the Jim Crowe laws dating back to the 1800s? Or the Lusk Committee of 1919? Or the Hatch Act of 1939?

Did I not say that a great many other nations including the US was doing similar things with similar laws in the same era? I am pretty sure I stated exactly that, are you not aware of those very similar laws?

 

[surada]

As opposed to say the Jim Crowe laws dating back to the 1800s? Or the Lusk Committee of 1919? Or the Hatch Act of 1939?

Did I not say that a great many other nations including the US was doing similar things with similar laws in the same era? I am pretty sure I stated exactly that, are you not aware of those very similar laws?

We're talking about Hitler in Germany. You're changing the subject while refusing to admit your error. You're a wiesel.

 

[alexa]

You mean as opposed to Communists, which also hate any unions that they themselves do not control?

Musroom: Don't see your point there, to be honest. Are you not aware that the Soviets and all other Marxist governments outlawed any unions they themselves did not control? Why do you think they were trying so damned hard to outlaw and eliminate Solidarity? That is simply how totalitarian governments operate. Does not matter if they are National Socialist or International Socialist.

Are you now suggesting that Fascist States are communist!! Communist states run by Corporate Capitalism Hmmm. The Nazis hated communism. They were very scared that Germany would follow Russia. They hated Socialism as they were the strongest competition to them. That is why they put the word Socialists into their name. Lying as usual. We are in a similar position to what we were in then. Capitalism is unable to provide a decent standard of living to those prepared to work hard. This time however there is little need for attempts to destroy the WC and when Corbyn a genuine socialist stood a good chance of becoming PM nothing was lost by all the Right wing parties, Labour, Tories here and your Government even said that if the people did vote him in as PM they would make sure he never stood in office. This time the left was beaten early - in the 80's and 90's. That is when the West attacked Unions and the working class. This time academics are suggesting that Fascism will be able to work with what is considered democracy. That is both parties have worked on getting rid of Unions and putting the working class 'in their place and that is so both in the US, UK and I think most of Europe.

 

[DudleySmith]

No, he did not. The NSDAP was always a Socialist movement. Just as the Fascists were always a Communist inspired National Socialist movement.

However, since a great many Communists try to lay claim to all of Socialism as their own creation and property, they hate having this known by others.

Mussolini was a lifelong Socialist, form a family of lifelong Socialists. He was only kicked out of the Communist Party that he helped found because he realized that Internationalism was not the answer. And Hitler idolized Mussolini.

Whenever people try to claim the NSDAP "split" from the "Socialists", what they really mean to say is that they "split" from the International Socialists (Communists). And that is true because they were always opposites. However, they did have the support of the Socialists that wanted the Monarchy restored. However, they eventually drifted off to the KPD and SPD. Which largely were weak because they were so distracted in trying to fight each other that the ignored the smaller and rising party in the background.

Himmler and Goebbels were both 'National Bolsheviks' at one time, as were the Strasser brothers, all friendly with Anton Radek's Communist faction. They switched to Hitler, who then banished the Strasserites, who were trying to form a coalition with one of the Red factions, don't remember which one.

National Bolshevism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Detlev Peukert has an excellent history of the Weimar republic, for those interested in the minutia of German politics of the era. As for me personally, 'socialism' and 'collectivism' are just distinctions without a difference where most of the proles are concerned and affected by them as policy.

Russians have revived 'National Bolshevism', interestingly enough.

 

[DudleySmith]

Are you now suggesting that Fascist States are communist!! Communist states run by Corporate Capitalism

That is exactly what Red China is.

 

[alexa]

That is exactly what Red China is.

No I don't think that is so. To the best of my knowledge China does not allow Corporate Capitalism. It keeps regulation to make sure it does not grow too big and because of that it does not call itself Capitalist. It believes Capitalism is what the West is doing at the moment where Corporate Power not those the people voted for has the power. I cannot see China allowing that.

 

[alexa]

You mean as opposed to Communists, which also hate any unions that they themselves do not control?

Don't see your point there, to be honest. Are you not aware that the Soviets and all other Marxist governments outlawed any unions they themselves did not control? Why do you think they were trying so damned hard to outlaw and eliminate Solidarity?

That is simply how totalitarian governments operate. Does not matter if they are National Socialist or International Socialist.

'Fraid you are forgetting that Nazi Germany allowed Unions which they controlled. This as with the word Socialism was to deceive. The working class is what Fascism goes against. They are the biggest group of people in any country. They are also the people who pay the most for Capitalism's failures. We have knowledge of all this so it is silly trying to pretend otherwise.

The US has been fighting Unions and the Working/Middle class since Regan. Now when your people middle or working class look for help, look for a Union, to all but a few they are not there. The US has been clever in that you have taught your working and middle class to diss both Unions and people who are not surviving. That is why in the US you have such a big uptake in drink, drugs and suicide from white working/middle class men who believe they should be able to make it and hate themselves so much for being such a failure.

So you are suggesting your government starting with Regan and everyone since is totalitarian? I would not say it is as bad as that yet. You have been playing the usual Capitalist game when in difficulty Wars but both of your parties could work together being fascist and almost certainly becoming more and more totalitarian/fascist as the need demands just as both the United States and the United Kingdom have since Regan and Thatcher.