The Founders on Religion

[bravoactual]

And just so all Russian Loving America Hating Cons know, George Washington was a Diest.

He believed in a creator, but he did not believe that such creator ever interacted with mankind.

There is no god. god does not exist. god is not real.

If you support der GroppenFuhrer's fucking buddy's interference in our countries election, then you support a non-believer who is plainly fucking this country over.

 

[Doc1]

And just so all Russian Loving America Hating Cons know, George Washington was a Diest.

He believed in a creator, but he did not believe that such creator ever interacted with mankind.

There is no god. god does not exist. god is not real.

If you support der GroppenFuhrer's fucking buddy's interference in our countries election, then you support a non-believer who is plainly fucking this country over.

Wow, you have an amazing vocabulary kid.

 

[P@triot]

Fuck Your Fucking god. Fuck Your Fucking god. Butt Fuck Your fucking god.

Oh boy....someone was hurt as a small child.

 

[P@triot]

There is no god. god does not exist. god is not real.

Oh boy....someone was hurt as a small child.

This is not the forum to discuss the details of what happened but I do highly recommend that you seek the therapy that you desperately need, ASAP.

 

[P@triot]

George Washington was a Diest.

As everyone knows - Barack Obama brutally raped both Sasha and Malia almost daily. He is also bi-sexaul - preferring encounters with men over his daughters or Michelle.

 

[ding]

Correction yet another left-wing false narrative. This time it is the lie that the founders wanted to build a "secular nation" in which the government was "free from religion".

"And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?"

— George Washington Farewell Address (September 19, 1796)

America Was Built on Natural Law. As our forefathers sought to build “one nation under God,” they purposely established their legal codes on the foundation of Natural Law. They believed that societies should be governed, as Jefferson put it, by “the moral law to which man has been subjected by his Creator, and of which his feelings, or conscience as it is sometimes called, are the evidence with which his Creator has furnished him. The moral duties which exist between individual and individual in a state of nature accompany them into a state of society,… their Maker not having released them from those duties on their forming themselves into a nation.” (Writings of Thomas Jefferson, 3:228)

Throughout the first century of US. history, natural law was upheld as a key principle of government by the American people and their leader, not only by Presidents and the Congress, but also by the Supreme Court.

In the view of the Court, its members were to decide cases by exercising “that understanding which Providence has bestowed upon them.” (Gibbons v. Ogden, 22 U.S. 1, 186-87, 1824). Since the laws they adjudicated were based on “the preexisting and higher authority of the laws of nature,” (The West River Bridge Company v. Joseph Dix, 47 U.S. 507, 532, 1848), they relied less on judicial precedent than on “eternal justice as it comes from intelligence… to guide the conscience of the Court.” (Rhode Island v. Massachusetts, 39 U.S. 210, 225, 1840).

Cicero defines Natural Law as “true law.” “True law is right reason in agreement with nature; it is of universal application, unchanging and everlasting; it summons to duty by its commands, and averts from wrongdoing by its prohibitions…. It is a sin to try to alter this law, nor is it allowable to repeal any part of it, and it is impossible to abolish entirely. We cannot be freed from its obligations by senate or people, and we need not look outside ourselves for an expounder or interpreter of it. And there will not be different laws at Rome and Athens, or different laws now and in the future, but one eternal and unchangeable law will be valid for all nations and all times, and there will be one master and ruler, that is God, over us all, for he is the author of this law, its promulgator, and its enforcing judge. Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature, and by reason of this very fact he will suffer the worst punishment.” (The Five thousand Year Leap, p. 40)

In 1764, Massachusetts patriot James Otis defined Natural Law as “the rules of moral conduct implanted by nature in the human mind, forming the proper basis for and being superior to all written laws; the will of God revealed to man through his conscience.” (Annals of America, 2:11)

Natural Law: The Basis of Moral Government - National Center for Constitutional Studies

“The law of nature is that which God at the time of creation of the nature of man infused into his heart, for his preservation and direction…the moral law, called also the law of nature.” (Sir Edward Coke, Calvin’s Case in The Selected Writings and Speeches of Sir Edward Coke)

“…as man depends absolutely upon his Maker for everything, it is necessary that he should, in all points, conform to his Maker's will. This will of his Maker is called the law of nature...This law of nature...dictated by God himself, is of course superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity if contrary to this; and such of them as are valid derive all their force, and all their authority...from this original. "Upon these two foundations, the law of nature and the law of revelation, depend all human laws; that is to say, no human laws should be suffered to contradict these." (William Blackstone, Commentaries on the Law 1723-1780)

“Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is Divine…Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants.” (James Wilson “Of the General Principles of Law and Obligation”, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Signed U.S. Constitution)

 

[P@triot]

Article VI is very clear.

".....But No Religious Test Shall Ever Be Required As a A Qualification To Any Office or Public Trust Under The United States."

You're not going to pretend like you actually understand the U.S. Constitution now, are you?

None of that has anything to do with the premise of this thread. Nobody made any claim that a "religious test" was required for someone to hold office. Straw-man, much?

 

[P@triot]

If you support der GroppenFuhrer's fucking buddy's interference in our countries election, then you support a non-believer who is plainly fucking this country over.

Wow...not only experience some issues as child...but someone is also completely incapable of accepting the reality that the American people universally rejects their bat-shit crazy left-wing ideology.

 

[Moonglow]

George Washington was a Diest.

As everyone knows - Barack Obama brutally raped both Sasha and Malia almost daily. He is also bi-sexaul - preferring encounters with men over his daughters or Michelle.

Oh my, what a fantasy..

 

[P@triot]

Fuck Your Fucking god. Fuck Your Fucking god. Butt Fuck Your fucking god.

Jesus still loves you. He can take those scars from your childhood and turn them into stars.

(Bonus: on top of that, President Trump is going to make your life exponentially better too but you will have to actually work and provide for yourself)

 

[Seawytch]

You, a "states' rights" guy, only seem to attack and snivel about the state laws in half the states that require the baking of a cake for a gay couple and never about Federal law in all 50 that requires the baking of a cake for, say, an interracial couple.

I'm a devout constitutional conservative. That means a real commitment to the entire document - including the 10th Amendment.

The problem - however - is that you interpret "state's rights" to mean unmitigated power (as you always do when it comes to government - at any level). The 10th Amendment does not empower states to violate the rest of the constitution. It doesn't mean a state can take away my freedom of speech. I'm not more satisfied if a state strips me of my 2nd Amendment rights than if the federal government does.

The government (federal, state, county, or city) simply has no authority to force private citizens on private property to engage in commerce. Period. End of story. And nobody can make a rational case otherwise. What was done was illegal. We cannot have a government - which is tasked with enforcing laws - engaged in violating laws.

It has already been determined by the SCOTUS that Public Accommodation laws do not violate the Constitution, the FEDERAL PA LAW, not state law....rendering your "argument" nothing but Constitutional fan fiction.

 

[Seawytch]

I'm sorry, when you say "church in government" I have no idea what you're saying. What does "church in government" mean to you? How much religion do you want to see in our government?

It means that those in office govern based on biblical principles while still respecting and upholding the U.S. Constitution. That we allow prayer in school and a religious symbol in a government building.

Prayer in school is not prohibited and neither are religious symbols...if you make room for all of them. That means if you want a cross in a public square, you have to leave room for every other's religion too. The Satanists get to erect their idols right alongside the baby Jesus.

Whose religion?

Protestant. That's what we were founded on. Those of different faiths are still free to practice their religion of course. But they aren't free to dictate that we can't have a cross on a public square or that we can't say Jesus in schools.

So you are no different than Muslims wanting Sharia law.

 

[Seawytch]

Jefferson Bible

The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, commonly referred to as the Jefferson Bible, was a book constructed by Thomas Jefferson in the later years of his life by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition is especially notable for its exclusion of all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels that contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages that portray Jesus as divine.[1][2][3][4]

Jefferson Bible - Wikipedia

It's my favorite version. Just Jesus's words...good stuff.

 

[Seawytch]

Correction yet another left-wing false narrative. This time it is the lie that the founders wanted to build a "secular nation" in which the government was "free from religion".

"And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?"

— George Washington Farewell Address (September 19, 1796)

Our country was founded on principles of accepting all religions and not subscribing to just one. If you want to be fair and integrate religion into our government then all religions would need equal representation, otherwise separating church and state and leaving religious practice to the privacy of our citizens is the best path and I believe our founders intent

^^^That^^

 

[Divine Wind]

...There is no god. god does not exist. god is not real....

Curiously awaiting your evidence and proof.....or will you admit that it's simply your belief?

 

[Seawytch]

[*Jump to State Laws...the ones that make you bake for gays (the one for blacks is Federal) are states laws.

States' Rights

I'm sorry - when we say "church in government" to you interpret that to mean FEDERAL only?

I'm sorry, when you say "church in government" I have no idea what you're saying. What does "church in government" mean to you? How much religion do you want to see in our government? Whose religion?

Do you support the Federal PA laws or don't you? You, a "states' rights" guy, only seem to attack and snivel about the state laws in half the states that require the baking of a cake for a gay couple and never about Federal law in all 50 that requires the baking of a cake for, say, an interracial couple.

And no - this is not about "Public Accommodation Laws". This is about ALL of it, my dear. Everything. Those were just some examples. I also mentioned corrupt maniacs like Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Barack Obama. Convenient how you missed that, uh?

Yes, I was doing you a favor by ignoring the completely insane parts of your post. That's getting harder to do.

No. Public Accomadation laws violate the right to private property...Government buildings can't discriminate, but you should be able to serve who you want, and not serve who you want, if you own the business...that is why some Republicans didn't support the 64 Civil Rights act....in that one area it went too far....

So why aren't "some Republicans" trying to get it repealed? Why challenge State law that requires gays to be served in about 25 states and not the law that requires blacks or Jews to be served in all 50? Could it be because the SCOTUS already found it to be Constitutional?

 

[Seawytch]

...There is no god. god does not exist. god is not real....

Curiously awaiting your evidence and proof.....or will you admit that it's simply your belief?

You can't prove a negative. There is no proof of god's existence. That's why it's called a faith not a science.

 

[Divine Wind]

Fuck Your Fucking god....Fuck Your Fucking god. Butt Fuck Your fucking god.

Wow, that's a lot of anger. The homophobic reference is interesting too. Do you have a story or two to share?

 

[Divine Wind]

...There is no god. god does not exist. god is not real....

Curiously awaiting your evidence and proof.....or will you admit that it's simply your belief?

You can't prove a negative. There is no proof of god's existence. That's why it's called a faith not a science.

Correct about proving a negative. However, when a person asserts a positive, even if it's to say "god does not exist", then they must either provide proof, admit error or admit it's a matter of faith.

 

[Seawytch]

...There is no god. god does not exist. god is not real....

Curiously awaiting your evidence and proof.....or will you admit that it's simply your belief?

You can't prove a negative. There is no proof of god's existence. That's why it's called a faith not a science.

Correct about proving a negative. However, when a person asserts a positive, even if it's to say "god does not exist", then they must either provide proof, admit error or admit it's a matter of faith.

Of course you can. You say a god exists its up to you to prove our claim. Beeeeeleeeeeeve me isn't proof.

I can absolutely say god or Bigfoot or ghosts don't exist. I am not obligated to provide proof of non existence, those that believe they exist are.