The future of Electoral Voters

[OKTexas]

Now that the idea of turning Electoral Voters from their obligation has been breached on the largest level to date, can we expect EV's to be targeted each and every presidential election from now on?

Your choice of words is a bit confusing, but...

Could you define what obligations you believe electors have?

The Constitution does that, they are to carry out the will of their respective States.

The problem is that not all states require them to vote as their state did. It needs to be addressed nation wide to preclude any post election foolery.

The States that have weak laws regarding their electors will be fixing them before the next election, count on it.

 

[Russ Alllah Gehry]

Now that the idea of turning Electoral Voters from their obligation has been breached on the largest level to date, can we expect EV's to be targeted each and every presidential election from now on?

Your choice of words is a bit confusing, but...

Could you define what obligations you believe electors have?

The Constitution does that, they are to carry out the will of their respective States.

The problem is that not all states require them to vote as their state did. It needs to be addressed nation wide to preclude any post election foolery.

Nationwide? Why do you hate federalism and states rights?

 

[Russ Alllah Gehry]

Maybe they should have the electors vote according percentage of the states vote… Trump would've even won by more…

really?
Crazy

 

[Fang]

The popular just proved that California, Chicago and New York are full of liberal nutcases, many probably illegal. The EC did exactly what it was supposed to do and didn't allow a majority in 3 main urban areas rule the rest of the country.

Uh, dude, the cities are where PEOPLE ACTUALLY LIVE.

There's no reason why 500,000 sheep herders in Wyoming should have more influence than 6 million people in Chicago.

The EC is such that people in 3 main urban areas can't have more influence over coal minors in Ohio, steel workers (what's left if any) in PA, the middle class in Wisconsin and Michigan and retirees in Florida. All these groups have different needs than the 3 main urban areas. If enough of these states vote one way then the popular vote can be overridden. This form of government gives everybody a say, not just the cities with the most people.

The problem with Liberals is they can't see past today for the greater good of the country. For the past 8 years all we heard from Liberals was the Republican Party is dead. I always maintained that politics goes in cycles. Neither party will remain in power indefinitely. The Democrats may have won the popular vote today and lost the EC, but there will come a time when the reverse is true. Don't change the rules of a great system to fit your needs today, because the political environment will shift one day and you'll win with the current rules.

It's up to the candidates to gain influence not the states or regions to provide it. Each candidate has equal opportunity to gain influence wherever they need it. A vote in a lesser populated state should carry no more weight than a vote from a more densely populated state. A popular vote would require candidates on all sides to have a more populist and centrist position so as to appeal to the broadest possible block of America. The truth is there are more independent voters now than ever.

It doesn't. California 55 electoral votes to Wyoming's 3. But if enough of those smaller states vote with Wyoming then the majority in California can be overwritten. It means California needs buy in from other parts of the country, or Wyoming needs other parts to vote with them. It makes total sense to ensure smaller states don't always get ignored and to make sure the needs are being met across the country and not just in one or two areas.

When you pull yourself way from the hurt of losing in November and look at it objectively it makes total sense. To keep yelling "but majority rules" is futile and shows a general ignorance for the system.

I simply don't agree and I'm not hurt. I've gone out of my way in this thread to be non partisan.

Fair enough.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Now that the idea of turning Electoral Voters from their obligation has been breached on the largest level to date, can we expect EV's to be targeted each and every presidential election from now on?

Your choice of words is a bit confusing, but...

Could you define what obligations you believe electors have?

The Constitution does that, they are to carry out the will of their respective States.

The problem is that not all states require them to vote as their state did. It needs to be addressed nation wide to preclude any post election foolery.

Nationwide? Why do you hate federalism and states rights?

I don't. I was addressing the OP. The concern was post election EC foolery. Obviously the only way to avoid that is if all of the states address it. I said nothing of federal intervention.

 

[g5000]

Now that the idea of turning Electoral Voters from their obligation has been breached on the largest level to date, can we expect EV's to be targeted each and every presidential election from now on?
.

No. Only in elections where the electoral loser won the popular vote.

There was this same kind of pressure for Republican electors to vote for Gore in 2000, with some of them receiving death threats.

 

[BluesLegend]

If the politicians ever dare overturn the will of the people via EV there's going to be hell to pay. The American people will bark at the politicians and when that happens the politicians will run in fear of their political careers just like they always do. Its rare that the American people bark at politicians, but they fear this above all else.

 

[g5000]

INSKEEP: You think the Electoral College should stay? It's OK?

ROBERTS: I think that it has a very important role in terms of protecting minorities. The founders thought about small states. Keep in mind, they were always against the tyranny of the majority.

INSKEEP: We're not talking about racial minorities here. We're talking about...

ROBERTS: Yes, I'm talking about racial minorities here.

INSKEEP: Oh, go on. Go on. OK.

ROBERTS: So you look at the African-American vote nationwide, it's 12 percent. But in certain states, it makes all the difference. And so, for instance, in Barack Obama's 2012 election, it was the African-American vote in Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan that put him over the top. The same with the Hispanic vote - nationwide, it was 11 percent. But in Colorado, Nevada, it makes all the difference. And it's beginning to turn places like Arizona and Texas. So it has the effect of giving minority voices a much louder voice than they would have in a national election...

INSKEEP: Some people...

ROBERTS: ...Which would be, by the way, run in the media and run on the coast. And we would not have heard in this election the voices of the people who felt so disenfranchised in the Midwest.


Cokie Roberts Answers Your Questions About The Electoral College

 

[Mac1958]

Now that the idea of turning Electoral Voters from their obligation has been breached on the largest level to date, can we expect EV's to be targeted each and every presidential election from now on?
.

No. Only in elections where the electoral loser won the popular vote.

There was this same kind of pressure for Republican electors to vote for Gore in 2000, with some of them receiving death threats.

Yeah, you may be right.

At the same time, why should the popular vote matter, if zealots want to change the outcome?
.

 

[g5000]

Now that the idea of turning Electoral Voters from their obligation has been breached on the largest level to date, can we expect EV's to be targeted each and every presidential election from now on?
.

No. Only in elections where the electoral loser won the popular vote.

There was this same kind of pressure for Republican electors to vote for Gore in 2000, with some of them receiving death threats.

Yeah, you may be right.

At the same time, why should the popular vote matter, if zealots want to change the outcome?
.

The popular vote should matter for obvious reasons. But a passionate people are not always right. (See quote by Charles MacKay in my sig.)

Thus the need for the EC and two Senators for each state.

 

[Russ Alllah Gehry]

The concern was post election EC foolery. Obviously the only way to avoid that is if all of the states address it. I said nothing of federal intervention.

What post election electoral college foolery? Why would you assume all states have the same interests as you do?

 

[JoeB131]

No one has proven that Trump is a racist, or a misogynist, or an authoritarian. Once again you fall for the media narrative because it suits you, and quite frankly, you are a moron.

That black outreach he is attempting must scare the shit out of you.

Right, so when he says racist, misogynistic things, ON TAPE, we are just imagining it, becuase the media isnt' telling us about the times he managed to avoid saying those racist things.

That's kind of like saying Hitler wasn't an anti-semite because he wasn't screaming about killing the Jews all the time.

if we were a direct democracy, that would be a good point. but we are not and the office of the president represents the will of a population weighted vote of the 50 States (plus DC).

The masses have the House to represent them proportionally. If your side didn't weaponize the executive and judicial branches so much, this wouldn't be an issue

But why SHOULD the vote be weighted? Oh, that's right because 200 years ago, some slave raping assholes didn't trust direct democracy because it might produce someone like Trump. Except their system has produced someone like Trump.

You see, your argument would be great if the Electoral College produced Good presidents when it overrode the will of the people. But the opposite is true.

The three guys who became President because the Electoral college selected them over the will of the people were the WORST PRESIDENTS we ever had. Rutherford B. Hayes gave us 100 years of Racism because he surrendered all the gains made in the Civil War. George W. Stupid got us into a war on a lie and gave us the worst recession in 80 years. Benjamin Harrison spent like a sailor in a whorehouse and crashed the country into a recession.

And no one really thinks Trump is going to be a good president. Not even a lot of conservatives. They just hope to cram through a lot of shit before the people wise up.

Ride it like you stole it, Baby!

The people usually get it right. Maybe it's time we started trusting them.

 

[JoeB131]

I've learned here to ask twice and then give up.

That's awesome. Maybe what you can do is learn to ask once, and when people don't give you the answer you expect, you can stop asking.

Then you can stop asking completely fucking stupid questions to fit your imaginary narratives.

 

[Mac1958]

I've learned here to ask twice and then give up.

That's awesome. Maybe what you can do is learn to ask once, and when people don't give you the answer you expect, you can stop asking.

Then you can stop asking completely fucking stupid questions to fit your imaginary narratives.

 

[JoeB131]

Yup and that's why the FF's put it in there so all votes would count and we wouldn't have the larger population centers deciding every election.

The FF's knew exactly what they were doing.

If they knew what they were doing, they wouldn't have had a Civil War 80 years later. So instead, we got this awful system, one that led to a civil war and spits out a truly awful president the people didn't want.

Okay, one more time. Please point out a time when the Electoral College overruled the WILL OF THE PEOPLE and selected someone who was a good president?

You can't. The three times it happened, (1876, 1888, 2000) they produced the worst presidents in our history.

 

[JoeB131]

The EC is such that people in 3 main urban areas can't have more influence over coal minors in Ohio, steel workers (what's left if any) in PA, the middle class in Wisconsin and Michigan and retirees in Florida. All these groups have different needs than the 3 main urban areas. If enough of these states vote one way then the popular vote can be overridden. This form of government gives everybody a say, not just the cities with the most people.

That works on the assumption that everyone in those three cities votes the same way.

Okay- so let's look at that.

NYC- 8.5 Million
LA - 3.9 Million
Chicago 2.7 Million.

Sorry, dumbass- Those three cities together, total 15.1 million people. Only about a QUARTER of what a winning presidential candidate gets. And that's not even taking out the children who can't vote.

You see, the thing is, if Coal Miners in OH voted for Trumpenfuhrer, then the joke is on them. Coal is a dead technology the world is moving away from. Trump might as well have promised to keep the Buggy-Whip factory open.

The problem with Liberals is they can't see past today for the greater good of the country. For the past 8 years all we heard from Liberals was the Republican Party is dead. I always maintained that politics goes in cycles. Neither party will remain in power indefinitely. The Democrats may have won the popular vote today and lost the EC, but there will come a time when the reverse is true. Don't change the rules of a great system to fit your needs today, because the political environment will shift one day and you'll win with the current rules.

The problem isn't that the REpublican Party is dead. The problem is the Republican Party has lost it's fucking mind.

YOu see, the thing is, if we didn't have this ABORTION called an Electoral College in place, the GOP would not have won a presidential election since 1988. We could have avoided all these wars and recessions we didn't need.

I'm sure that Trump will remind us all why electing Republicans is a terrible idea..

The thing is, WE DON'T NEED AN ELECTORAL COLLEGE. The racist reason it was put into place failed a long time ago.

 

[JoeB131]

I've learned here to ask twice and then give up.

That's awesome. Maybe what you can do is learn to ask once, and when people don't give you the answer you expect, you can stop asking.

Then you can stop asking completely fucking stupid questions to fit your imaginary narratives.

Hey, Mac,stop being such a pussy. Your Trumpenfuhrer might grab you.

 

[owebo]

Yup and that's why the FF's put it in there so all votes would count and we wouldn't have the larger population centers deciding every election.

The FF's knew exactly what they were doing.

If they knew what they were doing, they wouldn't have had a Civil War 80 years later. So instead, we got this awful system, one that led to a civil war and spits out a truly awful president the people didn't want.

Okay, one more time. Please point out a time when the Electoral College overruled the WILL OF THE PEOPLE and selected someone who was a good president?

You can't. The three times it happened, (1876, 1888, 2000) they produced the worst presidents in our history.

Carter and Obama are the worst presidents ever...so....

 

[JoeB131]

Actually the States are not constitutionally given the option to ignore the will of their respective States. Their electors are chosen by the State, democracy ends at the State line.

Which doesn't mean they still can't vote for whoever they want.

Look, the thing is, there probably won't be enough faithless electors to deny Trumpenfuhrer the presidency. It's a truly bad idea, even you have admitted as much, but you guys simply can't admit you fucked up.

Just like you could never admit what a fuckup George W. Stupid was.

 

[Yousaidwhat]

Since politics has devolved into little more than short term thinking, here's a question to ponder. Let's look down the road a bit.

First, let's assume that the EV system remains, so all those who to bring that up don't need to (although I'm sure they will).

Now that the idea of turning Electoral Voters from their obligation has been breached on the largest level to date, can we expect EV's to be targeted each and every presidential election from now on?

And does anyone doubt that this "targeting" will include threats and intimidation and bribery?

The presidential election will only be prelude. The real battle would begin after that. A few dozen faceless EV's will have the power to control the destiny of 300+ million Americans.

Is this really what we want?

Oh, look, it's Thursday and Mac is going into hysterics again.

The thing is, yes, you have ALWAYS had this potential for mischeif by the electors, who can do any damned thing they want.

Most of the time they don't because the electoral and popular votes mesh,and the parties are pretty good at picking loyalists to do these jobs.

The ONLY reason why it's an issue THIS time is because the GOP nominated a candidate most of their party didn't want, and unlike other times that the primary voters shit the bed (Goldwater, McGovern) he managed to win the electoral college.

The only thing that is keeping these electors from doing the sane thing and voting against the Nazi their party was dumb enough to nominate and who won a mere 80K votes in some swing states is they don't want to split their party.

The thing is, they could split the Electoral vote by enough of them supporting a moderate, and then they could throw it into Congress where that moderate could be selected. The Constitution actually allows for all of this, and pretty much for THIS REASON. To protect the voters from themselves.

You see, the Republicans KNOW Trump is going to be a disaster that will make them miss George W. Bush. They just don't have the balls to stand up to their own voters and stop it.

Unless something comes out showing that Trump was more in cahoots with the Russians that he obviously is, the system will wuss out and give a nuclear arsenal to a malignant narcissist.

But we showed them PC Police, huh, Mac?

NAZI!

Protect the voters from themselves?

The voters protected themselves by not voting for your candidate.