The glaring evidence that Obamacare is a catastrophic FAILURE continues to mount

[PMZ]

Clear is good. And I completely agree, my problems with your cause is not any label, but that it's anti American. Not what got us here. Outside of the mainstream interpretation of our Constitution.

I don't see how it's possible for anyone to believe that libertarianism or certainly anarchy has ever been mainstream or even ever put into practice here.

When you get away from your handbook of labels and get a breath of fresh air I hope you won't be to embarrassed by the silliness of these posts.

Never heard of the Free State Project. Mainstream does not have to apply to all 320,000,000 of us. Only enough that control a small local segment. You can see it in neighborhoods where I live.

What is unAmerican about you is that you constantly seek to homogonize society when the country was designed to allow maximum latitude.

"homogonize society"

Another thing that I've never experienced. The human race is about as diverse as can be imagined. Nobody can change or control that.

 

[Listening]

I don't see how it's possible for anyone to believe that libertarianism or certainly anarchy has ever been mainstream or even ever put into practice here.

When you get away from your handbook of labels and get a breath of fresh air I hope you won't be to embarrassed by the silliness of these posts.

Never heard of the Free State Project. Mainstream does not have to apply to all 320,000,000 of us. Only enough that control a small local segment. You can see it in neighborhoods where I live.

What is unAmerican about you is that you constantly seek to homogonize society when the country was designed to allow maximum latitude.

You apparently have not yet learned that you don't define other people. Just yourself.

I see...and yet you keep yelling Fox News at anyone who does not agree with you.

Swallow your own medicine.

 

[RKMBrown]

I don't see how it's possible for anyone to believe that libertarianism or certainly anarchy has ever been mainstream or even ever put into practice here.

What I find most interesting is how the left/right artifice completely fails to distinguish our views meaningfully. I'd wager that on a typical left/right test, you and I would both fall somewhere near the middle, even if we'd answer nearly every question the opposite. Authoritarians and libertarians ARE polar opposites, but not along the one dimensional conservative/liberal axis.

I don't know what an authoritarian is. I doubt if I know one.

What I'm for is collaboration, which can only exist within an organization with structure, rules, roles, and purpose. What exists without that is chaos.

That's why every corporation, service organization, government, military, volunteer group, church, school, religion, community, neighborhood, charity, etc has organization.

Retard.

 

[PMZ]

What I find most interesting is how the left/right artifice completely fails to distinguish our views meaningfully. I'd wager that on a typical left/right test, you and I would both fall somewhere near the middle, even if we'd answer nearly every question the opposite. Authoritarians and libertarians ARE polar opposites, but not along the one dimensional conservative/liberal axis.

I don't know what an authoritarian is. I doubt if I know one.

What I'm for is collaboration, which can only exist within an organization with structure, rules, roles, and purpose. What exists without that is chaos.

That's why every corporation, service organization, government, military, volunteer group, church, school, religion, community, neighborhood, charity, etc has organization.

Retard.

Idiot.

 

[Listening]

I don't know what an authoritarian is. I doubt if I know one.

What I'm for is collaboration, which can only exist within an organization with structure, rules, roles, and purpose. What exists without that is chaos.

That's why every corporation, service organization, government, military, volunteer group, church, school, religion, community, neighborhood, charity, etc has organization.

Retard.

Idiot.

Well, at least it wasn't Fox News. You should join Franco in posting together. You could be the twin assholes of the board.

I am afraid that you really don't know how to do much except wag your finger and use the term's opinion and Fox News much.

You really did get screwed by whoever you paid to educate you. They did a miserable job.

 

[PMZ]

Retard.

Idiot.

Well, at least it wasn't Fox News. You should join Franco in posting together. You could be the twin assholes of the board.

I am afraid that you really don't know how to do much except wag your finger and use the term's opinion and Fox News much.

You really did get screwed by whoever you paid to educate you. They did a miserable job.

Apparently you are against collaboration and organization. Your choice. Not only my education, but my experience is that that's how things get done. But, I realize that, as a conservative, you don't want to get things done. So, I have to agree, if you don't ever do anything, chaos accomplishes nothing as well as any other process.

 

[Listening]

Idiot.

Well, at least it wasn't Fox News. You should join Franco in posting together. You could be the twin assholes of the board.

I am afraid that you really don't know how to do much except wag your finger and use the term's opinion and Fox News much.

You really did get screwed by whoever you paid to educate you. They did a miserable job.

Apparently you are against collaboration and organization. Your choice. Not only my education, but my experience is that that's how things get done. But, I realize that, as a conservative, you don't want to get things done. So, I have to agree, if you don't ever do anything, chaos accomplishes nothing as well as any other process.

Apparently, you need to change the bubble gum cards you buy because this stuff (which you copy off of them) is getting old. You know so much about me. I can only assume, that like so many liberals you have a crystal ball shoved up your ass and have to stick your head there to read it (after all "you realize" so much that is pure bullshyt). The best you do is sit on a message board pretending to be smart and educated when your posts show that not only are you uneducated, you are lazy.

Well, somewhat narcissistic too. As you somehow thing that the physics of the universe bend to your valued "opinions" (valued by you).

If this is how you "get things done", then thank heavens for those who really know what that means.

 

[PMZ]

Well, at least it wasn't Fox News. You should join Franco in posting together. You could be the twin assholes of the board.

I am afraid that you really don't know how to do much except wag your finger and use the term's opinion and Fox News much.

You really did get screwed by whoever you paid to educate you. They did a miserable job.

Apparently you are against collaboration and organization. Your choice. Not only my education, but my experience is that that's how things get done. But, I realize that, as a conservative, you don't want to get things done. So, I have to agree, if you don't ever do anything, chaos accomplishes nothing as well as any other process.

Apparently, you need to change the bubble gum cards you buy because this stuff (which you copy off of them) is getting old. You know so much about me. I can only assume, that like so many liberals you have a crystal ball shoved up your ass and have to stick your head there to read it (after all "you realize" so much that is pure bullshyt). The best you do is sit on a message board pretending to be smart and educated when your posts show that not only are you uneducated, you are lazy.

Well, somewhat narcissistic too. As you somehow thing that the physics of the universe bend to your valued "opinions" (valued by you).

If this is how you "get things done", then thank heavens for those who really know what that means.

I think that you have completely lost it. The not surprising result of blind allegiance to an indefensible dogma. So be it. If you ever recover, and want to explore alternatives, let me know. If you stay in the you are always right about everything mode, don't call me, I'll call you.

 

[Listening]

Apparently you are against collaboration and organization. Your choice. Not only my education, but my experience is that that's how things get done. But, I realize that, as a conservative, you don't want to get things done. So, I have to agree, if you don't ever do anything, chaos accomplishes nothing as well as any other process.

Apparently, you need to change the bubble gum cards you buy because this stuff (which you copy off of them) is getting old. You know so much about me. I can only assume, that like so many liberals you have a crystal ball shoved up your ass and have to stick your head there to read it (after all "you realize" so much that is pure bullshyt). The best you do is sit on a message board pretending to be smart and educated when your posts show that not only are you uneducated, you are lazy.

Well, somewhat narcissistic too. As you somehow thing that the physics of the universe bend to your valued "opinions" (valued by you).

If this is how you "get things done", then thank heavens for those who really know what that means.

I think that you have completely lost it. The not surprising result of blind allegiance to an indefensible dogma. So be it. If you ever recover, and want to explore alternatives, let me know. If you stay in the you are always right about everything mode, don't call me, I'll call you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

The first two words in your post are a lie.

 

[PMZ]

Apparently, you need to change the bubble gum cards you buy because this stuff (which you copy off of them) is getting old. You know so much about me. I can only assume, that like so many liberals you have a crystal ball shoved up your ass and have to stick your head there to read it (after all "you realize" so much that is pure bullshyt). The best you do is sit on a message board pretending to be smart and educated when your posts show that not only are you uneducated, you are lazy.

Well, somewhat narcissistic too. As you somehow thing that the physics of the universe bend to your valued "opinions" (valued by you).

If this is how you "get things done", then thank heavens for those who really know what that means.

I think that you have completely lost it. The not surprising result of blind allegiance to an indefensible dogma. So be it. If you ever recover, and want to explore alternatives, let me know. If you stay in the you are always right about everything mode, don't call me, I'll call you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

The first two words in your post are a lie.

I assume that this means that you are unable, or unwilling, to attempt to defend your media propaganda based dogma, and instead want to let it stand as what you wish was true.

I think that's a smart choice.

 

[Listening]

I think that you have completely lost it. The not surprising result of blind allegiance to an indefensible dogma. So be it. If you ever recover, and want to explore alternatives, let me know. If you stay in the you are always right about everything mode, don't call me, I'll call you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

The first two words in your post are a lie.

I assume that this means that you are unable, or unwilling, to attempt to defend your media propaganda based dogma, and instead want to let it stand as what you wish was true.

I think that's a smart choice.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Why would I defend anything to a liar ?

 

[dblack]

I don't see how it's possible for anyone to believe that libertarianism or certainly anarchy has ever been mainstream or even ever put into practice here.

What I find most interesting is how the left/right artifice completely fails to distinguish our views meaningfully. I'd wager that on a typical left/right test, you and I would both fall somewhere near the middle, even if we'd answer nearly every question the opposite. Authoritarians and libertarians ARE polar opposites, but not along the one dimensional conservative/liberal axis.

I don't know what an authoritarian is. I doubt if I know one.

What name do you like then? I'm using 'authoritarian' to describe the ideology you espouse, which is diametrically oppose to the 'libertarian' spirit of American democracy.

What I'm for is collaboration, which can only exist within an organization with structure, rules, roles, and purpose. What exists without that is chaos.

I'm not advocating chaos or anarchy, so don't waste time on that strawman. 'Collaboration' implies voluntarily working together to solve our problems, and that's definitely NOT what you've been arguing for. You're for obedience to coercive mandates from government. I call that 'authoritarian'. I think that's an accurate moniker, but as we've agreed, the labels aren't important. It's the policies and values we're advocating that matter.

 

[Listening]

I'm not advocating chaos or anarchy, so don't waste time on that strawman. 'Collaboration' implies voluntarily working together to solve our problems, and that's definitely NOT what you've been arguing for. You're for obedience to coercive mandates from government. I call that 'authoritarian'. I think that's an accurate moniker, but as we've agreed, the labels aren't important. It's the policies and values we're advocating that matter.

You nailed it...

Collaboration means you'll do what they say and you'll like it.

 

[PMZ]

The first two words in your post are a lie.

I assume that this means that you are unable, or unwilling, to attempt to defend your media propaganda based dogma, and instead want to let it stand as what you wish was true.

I think that's a smart choice.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Why would I defend anything to a liar ?

I've told nothing but the truth but, not unexpectedly, it is inconsistent with the propaganda that you swallow every day. No surprise. What your programmers have as an objective is your complete allegiance to, and belief in, what they are paid to instill. And they're good at what they do.

If I were you, I'd avoid trying to defend their dogma as strenuously as I could. It can only lead to frustration and you already have more of that then you can stand.

Run, run, run, to the place of other believers and reassure each other that you and the programmers are the sole proprietors of the truth. It's the only way to be right.

 

[Listening]

I assume that this means that you are unable, or unwilling, to attempt to defend your media propaganda based dogma, and instead want to let it stand as what you wish was true.

I think that's a smart choice.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Why would I defend anything to a liar ?

I've told nothing but the truth but, not unexpectedly, it is inconsistent with the propaganda that you swallow every day. No surprise. What your programmers have as an objective is your complete allegiance to, and belief in, what they are paid to instill. And they're good at what they do.

If I were you, I'd avoid trying to defend their dogma as strenuously as I could. It can only lead to frustration and you already have more of that then you can stand.

Run, run, run, to the place of other believers and reassure each other that you and the programmers are the sole proprietors of the truth. It's the only way to be right.

Nothing is right. You've not say'd anything of value on this board since you started posting.

 

[PMZ]

What I find most interesting is how the left/right artifice completely fails to distinguish our views meaningfully. I'd wager that on a typical left/right test, you and I would both fall somewhere near the middle, even if we'd answer nearly every question the opposite. Authoritarians and libertarians ARE polar opposites, but not along the one dimensional conservative/liberal axis.

I don't know what an authoritarian is. I doubt if I know one.

What name do you like then? I'm using 'authoritarian' to describe the ideology you espouse, which is diametrically oppose to the 'libertarian' spirit of American democracy.

What I'm for is collaboration, which can only exist within an organization with structure, rules, roles, and purpose. What exists without that is chaos.

I'm not advocating chaos or anarchy, so don't waste time on that strawman. 'Collaboration' implies voluntarily working together to solve our problems, and that's definitely NOT what you've been arguing for. You're for obedience to coercive mandates from government. I call that 'authoritarian'. I think that's an accurate moniker, but as we've agreed, the labels aren't important. It's the policies and values we're advocating that matter.

I am, in no way, libertarian or anarchist. I believe in organization and collaboration despite the cognitive dissonance that that causes you. It is the essence of civilization which is the essence of democracy. Rules made by representatives of we, the people.

 

[dblack]

I don't know what an authoritarian is. I doubt if I know one.

What name do you like then? I'm using 'authoritarian' to describe the ideology you espouse, which is diametrically oppose to the 'libertarian' spirit of American democracy.

What I'm for is collaboration, which can only exist within an organization with structure, rules, roles, and purpose. What exists without that is chaos.

I'm not advocating chaos or anarchy, so don't waste time on that strawman. 'Collaboration' implies voluntarily working together to solve our problems, and that's definitely NOT what you've been arguing for. You're for obedience to coercive mandates from government. I call that 'authoritarian'. I think that's an accurate moniker, but as we've agreed, the labels aren't important. It's the policies and values we're advocating that matter.

I am, in no way, libertarian or anarchist.

Heh... Yeah, I get that.

I believe in organization and collaboration despite the cognitive dissonance that that causes you. It is the essence of civilization which is the essence of democracy. Rules made by representatives of we, the people.

Ok, but I'm calling you out on the equivocation with the 'collaboration' term. You're using that, instead of the more accurate 'obedience', because you recognize that it sounds better to Americans, who have a natural revulsion at being ordered around in the manner you support. There's nothing in what you advocate that enlists voluntary cooperation. What you want is a coercive state dictating behavior. It's hard to view that as 'collaboration'.

 

[PMZ]

What name do you like then? I'm using 'authoritarian' to describe the ideology you espouse, which is diametrically oppose to the 'libertarian' spirit of American democracy.



I'm not advocating chaos or anarchy, so don't waste time on that strawman. 'Collaboration' implies voluntarily working together to solve our problems, and that's definitely NOT what you've been arguing for. You're for obedience to coercive mandates from government. I call that 'authoritarian'. I think that's an accurate moniker, but as we've agreed, the labels aren't important. It's the policies and values we're advocating that matter.

I am, in no way, libertarian or anarchist.

Heh... Yeah, I get that.

I believe in organization and collaboration despite the cognitive dissonance that that causes you. It is the essence of civilization which is the essence of democracy. Rules made by representatives of we, the people.

Ok, but I'm calling you out on the equivocation with the 'collaboration' term. You're using that, instead of the more accurate 'obedience', because you recognize that it sounds better to Americans, who have a natural revulsion at being ordered around in the manner you support. There's nothing in what you advocate that enlists voluntary cooperation. What you want is a coercive state dictating behavior. It's hard to view that as 'collaboration'.

I'm calling you out on obedience which is the libertarian bogeyman for organization, rule of law, and collaboration, the product of those other two. Get a group together with a common purpose. What do they do, naturally? They organize. They agree to roles and responsibilities. They adopt rules. Just like our countries founders did 250 or so years ago.

Your religion, that from chaos comes progress, is the big lie. From chaos comes chaos.

 

[dblack]

I am, in no way, libertarian or anarchist.

Heh... Yeah, I get that.

I believe in organization and collaboration despite the cognitive dissonance that that causes you. It is the essence of civilization which is the essence of democracy. Rules made by representatives of we, the people.

Ok, but I'm calling you out on the equivocation with the 'collaboration' term. You're using that, instead of the more accurate 'obedience', because you recognize that it sounds better to Americans, who have a natural revulsion at being ordered around in the manner you support. There's nothing in what you advocate that enlists voluntary cooperation. What you want is a coercive state dictating behavior. It's hard to view that as 'collaboration'.

I'm calling you out on obedience which is the libertarian bogeyman for organization, rule of law, and collaboration, the product of those other two. Get a group together with a common purpose. What do they do, naturally? They organize. They agree to roles and responsibilities. They adopt rules. Just like our countries founders did 250 or so years ago.

Your religion, that from chaos comes progress, is the big lie. From chaos comes chaos.

Well, as I said, I don't advocate chaos or anarchy. So, you're just shadowboxing. You can come up with whatever euphemisms make it all palatable to you, just as long as we're clear that you're diametrically opposed to liberty as a value.

 

[PMZ]

Heh... Yeah, I get that.



Ok, but I'm calling you out on the equivocation with the 'collaboration' term. You're using that, instead of the more accurate 'obedience', because you recognize that it sounds better to Americans, who have a natural revulsion at being ordered around in the manner you support. There's nothing in what you advocate that enlists voluntary cooperation. What you want is a coercive state dictating behavior. It's hard to view that as 'collaboration'.

I'm calling you out on obedience which is the libertarian bogeyman for organization, rule of law, and collaboration, the product of those other two. Get a group together with a common purpose. What do they do, naturally? They organize. They agree to roles and responsibilities. They adopt rules. Just like our countries founders did 250 or so years ago.

Your religion, that from chaos comes progress, is the big lie. From chaos comes chaos.

Well, as I said, I don't advocate chaos or anarchy. So, you're just shadowboxing. You can come up with whatever euphemisms make it all palatable to you, just as long as we're clear that you're diametrically opposed to liberty as a value.

First, I've never gotten from you, or anyone else here, a definition of "liberty", so I can only guess at what's in your head when you say it.

Second, living free of rules, as long as you are the only one free, is a compelling fantasy for most people.

Third, if everyone lived without rules and organization, the result would be chaos. There is an experiment performed about once a week in the middle east, which always demonstrates the mindlessness of mobs.

So, in the absence of any definition to the contrary, I think that your world is not real, but what you and others wish was true.