The glaring evidence that Obamacare is a catastrophic FAILURE continues to mount

[beagle9]

Exactly, and now apply your concepts to the government in the same ways of thinking that you have, and we should be getting the same results that you are, but the government couldn't manage thinking like that if it tried to anymore, because it is in a constant struggle always against being led around by the nose by the wrong people. It appears that the wrong people are winning the prize these days (control of our government and the nation also through this control). The problem today is that the wrong people are leading it around by it's nose, and telling it what to do and who to do it to. We are all being abused by this now, so how do the right people take back the government is what this nation needs to wonder about and soon plan to do. People know what is right, but I think monopolizing corporations big part in all of this has made our government vulnerable also, because it has affectively separated it from we the people in that way, and so when you see the government being over generous in certain ways over a feel good issue (or) on programs that it picks to be sensitive upon, it usually does this to show the nation that look we are still the government in which you expect us to be, even though it is not that government we think that it is any longer.

When conservatives, like me, look at these programs our response is, well duh you can't solve poverty by having a guy in DC send out checks. Hand-ups are best done by people who care about and/or at least have an incentive to monitor and mange the person's progress. Hand-ups require "local" management, not remote management.

Take FHA loans, the DC approach to housing is to hand-out loans to everyone. The Habitat approach is to carefully select and manage help to turn deserving families around.

The liberal approach is to just "solve" problems by throwing other people's money at it. Every weather event.. throw a large sum at it to "solve" the problem. Never do we think, maybe they should have to pay for their poor choice to live in a flood plain. Instead, we bail them out rebuild and they get flooded out again, and again, and again, and ... Refuse to fork over what seems to be an undue amount of money, and you get accused of tossing grandma off the cliff.

Do you agree that the only way to get from here to what you want is a living wage paying job for everyone who wants one?

Yes, it helps if companies would pay their employee's in the ways in which they should be paid as according to the market place in which it's all being operated in, but the employer has to be the kind of employer to freely do this in an ethical and righteous manor. They should try and do this as a people who are good & fair in this way, and without being forced to. The best way to deal with bad apples, is to boycott their products or their businesses, and that shouldn't be hard to do. Why don't people do this ? Are these people so insulated that they can't be touched or is it that people are to lazy to change things in this way ? I guess again what they do is just leave it to the government to attempt their bidding in this way, even though the government is in bed with these companies more so than people think that they are. The best thing is for the people to boycott businesses that are bad, and change the landscape in this way than to expect the government to do it for them.

 

[PMZ]

When conservatives, like me, look at these programs our response is, well duh you can't solve poverty by having a guy in DC send out checks. Hand-ups are best done by people who care about and/or at least have an incentive to monitor and mange the person's progress. Hand-ups require "local" management, not remote management.

Take FHA loans, the DC approach to housing is to hand-out loans to everyone. The Habitat approach is to carefully select and manage help to turn deserving families around.

The liberal approach is to just "solve" problems by throwing other people's money at it. Every weather event.. throw a large sum at it to "solve" the problem. Never do we think, maybe they should have to pay for their poor choice to live in a flood plain. Instead, we bail them out rebuild and they get flooded out again, and again, and again, and ... Refuse to fork over what seems to be an undue amount of money, and you get accused of tossing grandma off the cliff.

Do you agree that the only way to get from here to what you want is a living wage paying job for everyone who wants one?

Yes, it helps if companies would pay their employee's in the ways in which they should be paid as according to the market place in which it's all being operated in, but the employer has to be the kind of employer to freely do this in an ethical and righteous manor. They should try and do this as a people who are good & fair in this way, and without being forced to. The best way to deal with bad apples, is to boycott their products or their businesses, and that shouldn't be hard to do. Why don't people do this ? Are these people so insulated that they can't be touched or is it that people are to lazy to change things in this way ? I guess again what they do is just leave it to the government to attempt their bidding in this way, even though the government is in bed with these companies more so than people think that they are. The best thing is for the people to boycott businesses that are bad, and change the landscape in this way than to expect the government to do it for them.

There only a few forces that corporations respond to.

Customers, but typically only when they are organized. Tough to accomplish.

Workers, but only when they're organized into unions.

The government that is precisely organized to regulate.

Shareholders but typically only the handful that hold a majority of stock.

Competition is the force that they are most responsive to.

So corporate America is pretty much the least accountable organization type in the country.

 

[P@triot]

Employers who choose to pay minimum wage are choosing to push the rest of the cost of living off to taxpayers.

So the question remains [MENTION=43872]PMZ[/MENTION] - why have you refused to do your civic duty and create good paying jobs for your fellow citizens?

Nobody is asking you to create a global conglomerate. How about just 5 people that you provide six-figure salaries for? Just 5 people in your community that you take from minimum wage to a six-figure salary?

How can you cry about other people not doing what you yourself also refuses to do?

Clearly wealth redistribution up is addictive. An insatiable appetite. Never enough if your worldview is me, me, me.

These fat cats love biting the hand that feeds them. They stay here because they know that it's the country that allowed them their wealth but they whine piteously and continuously because enough is never enough. They covet the 15% of the total wealth that is divided up among 80% of the country.

They want it all. ALL.

I agree with you. So the question remains [MENTION=43872]PMZ[/MENTION] - why have you refused to do your civic duty and create good paying jobs for your fellow citizens?

Nobody is asking you to create a global conglomerate. How about just 5 people that you provide six-figure salaries for? Just 5 people in your community that you take from minimum wage to a six-figure salary?

How can you cry about other people not doing what you yourself also refuses to do?

 

[PMZ]

So the question remains [MENTION=43872]PMZ[/MENTION] - why have you refused to do your civic duty and create good paying jobs for your fellow citizens?

Nobody is asking you to create a global conglomerate. How about just 5 people that you provide six-figure salaries for? Just 5 people in your community that you take from minimum wage to a six-figure salary?

How can you cry about other people not doing what you yourself also refuses to do?

Clearly wealth redistribution up is addictive. An insatiable appetite. Never enough if your worldview is me, me, me.

These fat cats love biting the hand that feeds them. They stay here because they know that it's the country that allowed them their wealth but they whine piteously and continuously because enough is never enough. They covet the 15% of the total wealth that is divided up among 80% of the country.

They want it all. ALL.

I agree with you. So the question remains [MENTION=43872]PMZ[/MENTION] - why have you refused to do your civic duty and create good paying jobs for your fellow citizens?

Nobody is asking you to create a global conglomerate. How about just 5 people that you provide six-figure salaries for? Just 5 people in your community that you take from minimum wage to a six-figure salary?

How can you cry about other people not doing what you yourself also refuses to do?

I have created good paying jobs the only way they can be. Innovative products from good employees satisfying customers.

 

[P@triot]

That's why we need a conservative solution.

Conservatives create Jobs.

Libs like you just bitch that no matter what you are paid it's never enough.

Conservatives lay off people. They end whole careers. Liberals that know that workers serving customers the best, and innovative products cause growth and require investment.

If liberals "know that" how come they refuse to invest their money? They are only willing to invest someone else's money.

 

[PMZ]

Conservatives create Jobs.

Libs like you just bitch that no matter what you are paid it's never enough.

Conservatives lay off people. They end whole careers. Liberals that know that workers serving customers the best, and innovative products cause growth and require investment.

If liberals "know that" how come they refuse to invest their money? They are only willing to invest someone else's money.

What a bizarre thought. Liberals don't invest?????

Warren Buffet and Bill Gates come to mind.

 

[P@triot]

Clearly wealth redistribution up is addictive. An insatiable appetite. Never enough if your worldview is me, me, me.

These fat cats love biting the hand that feeds them. They stay here because they know that it's the country that allowed them their wealth but they whine piteously and continuously because enough is never enough. They covet the 15% of the total wealth that is divided up among 80% of the country.

They want it all. ALL.

I agree with you. So the question remains [MENTION=43872]PMZ[/MENTION] - why have you refused to do your civic duty and create good paying jobs for your fellow citizens?

Nobody is asking you to create a global conglomerate. How about just 5 people that you provide six-figure salaries for? Just 5 people in your community that you take from minimum wage to a six-figure salary?

How can you cry about other people not doing what you yourself also refuses to do?

I have created good paying jobs the only way they can be. Innovative products from good employees satisfying customers.

Why are you so completely disingenuous with everything [MENTION=43872]PMZ[/MENTION]? Is it because you know liberalism is a cancer destroying America and simply does not hold up under scrutiny?

You have never provided a single job - even minimum wage - for someone. So why do you refuse to do this basic civic duty? I don't understand why you refuse to provide 5 six-figure jobs for people in your area. That is not asking a lot. You can't/won't even do that?

 

[P@triot]

L O fucking L
You really don't see how stupid you look, do you?

No, I'm too busy staring at how stupid you look right now. Wow!

You are truly in a world of your own here, dude. How many people are supporting your position? How many mine? How much reputation have you received in this thread? How many of your posts have been thanked? How does it feel to be so all alone?

You can't answer a direct question even when shamed into it .

And I/we look stupid? It's likely that you are staring into a mirror instead of your monitor.... but that would be just ... stupid.

 

[PMZ]

I agree with you. So the question remains [MENTION=43872]PMZ[/MENTION] - why have you refused to do your civic duty and create good paying jobs for your fellow citizens?

Nobody is asking you to create a global conglomerate. How about just 5 people that you provide six-figure salaries for? Just 5 people in your community that you take from minimum wage to a six-figure salary?

How can you cry about other people not doing what you yourself also refuses to do?

I have created good paying jobs the only way they can be. Innovative products from good employees satisfying customers.

Why are you so completely disingenuous with everything [MENTION=43872]PMZ[/MENTION]? Is it because you know liberalism is a cancer destroying America and simply does not hold up under scrutiny?

You have never provided a single job - even minimum wage - for someone. So why do you refuse to do this basic civic duty? I don't understand why you refuse to provide 5 six-figure jobs for people in your area. That is not asking a lot. You can't/won't even do that?

Can't you read???

 

[P@triot]

Conservatives lay off people. They end whole careers. Liberals that know that workers serving customers the best, and innovative products cause growth and require investment.

If liberals "know that" how come they refuse to invest their money? They are only willing to invest someone else's money.

What a bizarre thought. Liberals don't invest?????

Warren Buffet and Bill Gates come to mind.

What a bizarre comment by you. Warren Buffet is demanding that taxes be raised. Which means he is not interested in investing his own money, he is demanding that he get to invest other people's money. Warren Buffet is wealthy enough to cut a massive check to Uncle Sam. He chooses not to - but he wants to force you and I to...

As always - your uninformed opinions simply do not hold up under scrutiny.

 

[Antares]

Clearly wealth redistribution up is addictive. An insatiable appetite. Never enough if your worldview is me, me, me.

These fat cats love biting the hand that feeds them. They stay here because they know that it's the country that allowed them their wealth but they whine piteously and continuously because enough is never enough. They covet the 15% of the total wealth that is divided up among 80% of the country.

They want it all. ALL.

I agree with you. So the question remains [MENTION=43872]PMZ[/MENTION] - why have you refused to do your civic duty and create good paying jobs for your fellow citizens?

Nobody is asking you to create a global conglomerate. How about just 5 people that you provide six-figure salaries for? Just 5 people in your community that you take from minimum wage to a six-figure salary?

How can you cry about other people not doing what you yourself also refuses to do?

I have created good paying jobs the only way they can be. Innovative products from good employees satisfying customers.

You've never created anything...you, like all Lefty's are a taker.

 

[P@triot]

I have created good paying jobs the only way they can be. Innovative products from good employees satisfying customers.

Why are you so completely disingenuous with everything [MENTION=43872]PMZ[/MENTION]? Is it because you know liberalism is a cancer destroying America and simply does not hold up under scrutiny?

You have never provided a single job - even minimum wage - for someone. So why do you refuse to do this basic civic duty? I don't understand why you refuse to provide 5 six-figure jobs for people in your area. That is not asking a lot. You can't/won't even do that?

Can't you read???

Yes - I am reading you demand that other people do on a massive level what you refuse to do on a small level.

So the question (which you refuse to answer) remains: why won't you do your basic civic duty? Why do you refuse to give a simple answer to this simple question?

 

[Ernie S.]

No, I'm too busy staring at how stupid you look right now. Wow!

You are truly in a world of your own here, dude. How many people are supporting your position? How many mine? How much reputation have you received in this thread? How many of your posts have been thanked? How does it feel to be so all alone?

You can't answer a direct question even when shamed into it .

And I/we look stupid? It's likely that you are staring into a mirror instead of your monitor.... but that would be just ... stupid.

You and your friends have ducked questions all day. And yesterday. And the days before.

You've succeeded in driving other people who live in the real world off this forum with insults and pig headed intractability in the face of truth.

But, you know what? Thugs don't scare me. I can be one when it's called for.

I'm very used to dealing with people like you.

If I have glossed over any question you've asked me, please point it out. In the mean time, get your ass to work on the 10 or so you have ignored, especially post #1726.

Who have I driven off the board?

Show me a lie!

Did you call me a thug?

Based on what?

Did I hurt your pwessious feewings?

How do you deal with thugs? If it is with your debate skills, you should give up and leave the serious stuff to the adults, you little pissant.

By the way, thugs scare me not one bit. I've dealt with my share over the years. The very idea that a little worm like you could intimidate me is laughable.

 

[Ernie S.]

Clearly wealth redistribution up is addictive. An insatiable appetite. Never enough if your worldview is me, me, me.

These fat cats love biting the hand that feeds them. They stay here because they know that it's the country that allowed them their wealth but they whine piteously and continuously because enough is never enough. They covet the 15% of the total wealth that is divided up among 80% of the country.

They want it all. ALL.

I agree with you. So the question remains [MENTION=43872]PMZ[/MENTION] - why have you refused to do your civic duty and create good paying jobs for your fellow citizens?

Nobody is asking you to create a global conglomerate. How about just 5 people that you provide six-figure salaries for? Just 5 people in your community that you take from minimum wage to a six-figure salary?

How can you cry about other people not doing what you yourself also refuses to do?

I have created good paying jobs the only way they can be. Innovative products from good employees satisfying customers.

Give us a couple of examples.

 

[PMZ]

If liberals "know that" how come they refuse to invest their money? They are only willing to invest someone else's money.

What a bizarre thought. Liberals don't invest?????

Warren Buffet and Bill Gates come to mind.

What a bizarre comment by you. Warren Buffet is demanding that taxes be raised. Which means he is not interested in investing his own money, he is demanding that he get to invest other people's money. Warren Buffet is wealthy enough to cut a massive check to Uncle Sam. He chooses not to - but he wants to force you and I to...

As always - your uninformed opinions simply do not hold up under scrutiny.

You must not realize who Warren Buffet is. He's the biggest single investor in the country. He's also investing a billion dollars in the betterment of the world through Gates. Saying that he's not an investor because he's not trying to screw the country that allowed him to make the wealth that he has, is a huge insult to him.

His thought is that it's bizarre that his tax rate is lower than his secretary's. You don't agree?

 

[BlackSand]

You and your friends have ducked questions all day. And yesterday. And the days before.

You've succeeded in driving other people who live in the real world off this forum with insults and pig headed intractability in the face of truth.

But, you know what? Thugs don't scare me. I can be one when it's called for.

I'm very used to dealing with people like you.

Listen Peanut ... When we give you real life examples ... You bitch and whine about how we think we are superior.
When we don't drag you through dirt ... Giving you a multitude of examples ... You accuse us of avoiding the question.

I have no desire to look like I want any admiration from anyone else ... And if I listed everything I do it would be too long to read.
To satisfy your demand for examples (although I am sure you will find something wrong with it) ... Pick a category and I will tell you what I personally do to help my community in that regard ... And keep the description as short as possible.

1. Education
2. Poverty
3. Community Development
4. Business

Pick one ... Your choice ... And I will answer the best I can.

.

 

[PMZ]

I agree with you. So the question remains [MENTION=43872]PMZ[/MENTION] - why have you refused to do your civic duty and create good paying jobs for your fellow citizens?

Nobody is asking you to create a global conglomerate. How about just 5 people that you provide six-figure salaries for? Just 5 people in your community that you take from minimum wage to a six-figure salary?

How can you cry about other people not doing what you yourself also refuses to do?

I have created good paying jobs the only way they can be. Innovative products from good employees satisfying customers.

You've never created anything...you, like all Lefty's are a taker.

Another one trying the Fox Opinions trick of speaking for the scapegoat.

Do you guys really fall for that?

 

[Antares]

I have created good paying jobs the only way they can be. Innovative products from good employees satisfying customers.

You've never created anything...you, like all Lefty's are a taker.

Another one trying the Fox Opinions trick of speaking for the scapegoat.

Do you guys really fall for that?

Run Fooooooorest.

 

[PMZ]

You and your friends have ducked questions all day. And yesterday. And the days before.

You've succeeded in driving other people who live in the real world off this forum with insults and pig headed intractability in the face of truth.

But, you know what? Thugs don't scare me. I can be one when it's called for.

I'm very used to dealing with people like you.

Listen Peanut ... When we give you real life examples ... You bitch and whine about how we think we are superior.
When we don't drag you through dirt ... Giving you a multitude of examples ... You accuse us of avoiding the question.

I have no desire to look like I want any admiration from anyone else ... And if I listed everything I do it would be too long to read.
To satisfy your demand for examples (although I am sure you will find something wrong with it) ... Pick a category and I will tell you what I personally do to help my community in that regard ... And keep the description as short as possible.

1. Education
2. Poverty
3. Community Development
4. Business

Pick one ... Your choice ... And I will answer the best I can.

.

Why do you think that you deserve extra credit for doing what many people of all walks of life do?

I've never said a word of discouragement for or about volunteering. I do lots myself.

But you keep insisting it's all that's required when the simple evidence of everyone's senses is that it is not.

Admirable? Yes. THE solution, very apparently, no.

 

[P@triot]

What a bizarre thought. Liberals don't invest?????

Warren Buffet and Bill Gates come to mind.

What a bizarre comment by you. Warren Buffet is demanding that taxes be raised. Which means he is not interested in investing his own money, he is demanding that he get to invest other people's money. Warren Buffet is wealthy enough to cut a massive check to Uncle Sam. He chooses not to - but he wants to force you and I to...

As always - your uninformed opinions simply do not hold up under scrutiny.

You must not realize who Warren Buffet is. He's the biggest single investor in the country. He's also investing a billion dollars in the betterment of the world through Gates. Saying that he's not an investor because he's not trying to screw the country that allowed him to make the wealth that he has, is a huge insult to him.

His thought is that it's bizarre that his tax rate is lower than his secretary's. You don't agree?

His tax rate is not lower than his secretary. It is higher. He then receives well earned tax exemptions which he qualifies for that eventually brings the absurd rate down. And here's the thing - he still pays many millions more than his secretary.

How ironic that you denounce a flat rate tax (10%) which would eliminate tax exemptions and ensure that a Warren Buffet never pays less than his secretary in one post and then in the next post you complain about one person having a smaller rate than another. Like all liberals, there is no pleasing you. You will complain until the government controls all the money and decides who gets what. Communism.