The IRS ***denies*** The House Request For DJT's Tax Returns

[busybee01]

They may get the returns but only in closed executive session and if any of them leak the info they will be charged with a Federal Felony.

I don't think it will go that far.

First off they have to have a reason for wanting those returns. They can't say it's because they suspect something illegal in paying taxes. The IRS has the authority there. They can't say it has anything to do with Russia. Mueller already put that to rest.

So what legitimate reason would they have to confiscate those records?

Neal Statement on Requesting President Trump’s Tax Returns
“It is critical to ensure the accountability of our government and elected officials. To maintain trust in our democracy, the American people must be assured that their government is operating properly, as laws intend.

“Congress, as a co-equal branch of government, has a duty to conduct oversight of departments and officials. The Ways and Means Committee in particular has a responsibility to conduct oversight of our voluntary Federal tax system and determine how Americans – including those elected to our highest office – are complying with those laws. It is also our duty to evaluate the operation of the Internal Revenue Service in its administration and enforcement of the tax laws.

“The IRS has a policy of auditing the tax returns of all sitting presidents and vice-presidents, yet little is known about the effectiveness of this program. On behalf of the American people, the Ways and Means Committee must determine if that policy is being followed, and, if so, whether these audits are conducted fully and appropriately. In order to fairly make that determination, we must obtain President Trump’s tax returns and review whether the IRS is carrying out its responsibilities. The Committee has a duty to examine whether Congressional action may be needed to require such audits, and to oversee that they are conducted properly.

“I today submitted to IRS Commissioner Rettig my request for six years of the president’s personal tax returns as well as the returns for some of his business entities. We have completed the necessary groundwork for a request of this magnitude and I am certain we are within our legitimate legislative, legal, and oversight rights.

“I take the authority to make this request very seriously, and I approach it with the utmost care and respect. This request is about policy, not politics; my preparations were made on my own track and timeline, entirely independent of other activities in Congress and the Administration. My actions reflect an abiding reverence for our democracy and our institutions, and are in no way based on emotion of the moment or partisanship. I trust that in this spirit, the IRS will comply with Federal law and furnish me with the requested documents in a timely manner.”

Well they're going to have a hell of a fight:

The House Ways and Means Committee has now asked the Treasury Department for the president’s tax returns, which it has a legal right to do. And, according to the law, the Treasury Department “shall” comply.

This seems pretty definitive. Shall means shall. Like, no wiggle room.


But there are overlays of constitutional law and political power that could, and I think likely will, thwart Congress’ effort to get Trump’s tax returns.

First, the law. While it is true that IRS Code 6103(f) appears to give the committee the power to get tax returns, the statute must be exercised in a way consistent with Congress’ constitutional authority. The Supreme Court has said Congress has broad authority to conduct inquiries but that its authority is not unlimited. In the 1881 case Kilbourn v. Thompson, the Supreme Court held that Congress can’t use its powers to delve into someone’s private financial matters unless there is a proper legislative purpose. In 1957, the Supreme Court held in Watkins v. U.S. that a congressional information demand must relate to a “legitimate task of the Congress” and noted that Congress is not a “law enforcement agency” that can seek information to uncover or expose crimes.

Congressional oversight is oversight by the United States Congress over the Executive Branch, including the numerous U.S. federal agencies. Congressional oversight includes the review, monitoring, and supervision of federal agencies, programs, activities, and policy implementation.[1] Congress exercises this power largely through its congressional committee system. Oversight also occurs in a wide variety of congressional activities and contexts. These include authorization, appropriations, investigative, and legislative hearingsby standing committees; specialized investigations by select committees; and reviews and studies by congressional support agencies and staff.

The court disagrees with that. Nowhere does it say that the Congress has the right to confiscate tax returns for political vendetta.

Now if the Congress has any questions for the IRS, by all means, let them do their oversight. But keep Trump's personal records out of it as the court ruled. They can ask the IRS what they did in Trump's past audits, what they are doing now, what protocols they are using. But they cannot ask for Trump's tax returns in order to conduct oversight of the IRS.

The Congress can request these records as a part of their oversight. Trump constantly says he cannot release his tax records because they are under audit. The Congress can investigate that and can get Trump's tax records.

 

[BULLDOG]

They may get the returns but only in closed executive session and if any of them leak the info they will be charged with a Federal Felony.

I don't think it will go that far.

First off they have to have a reason for wanting those returns. They can't say it's because they suspect something illegal in paying taxes. The IRS has the authority there. They can't say it has anything to do with Russia. Mueller already put that to rest.

So what legitimate reason would they have to confiscate those records?

Neal Statement on Requesting President Trump’s Tax Returns
“It is critical to ensure the accountability of our government and elected officials. To maintain trust in our democracy, the American people must be assured that their government is operating properly, as laws intend.

“Congress, as a co-equal branch of government, has a duty to conduct oversight of departments and officials. The Ways and Means Committee in particular has a responsibility to conduct oversight of our voluntary Federal tax system and determine how Americans – including those elected to our highest office – are complying with those laws. It is also our duty to evaluate the operation of the Internal Revenue Service in its administration and enforcement of the tax laws.

“The IRS has a policy of auditing the tax returns of all sitting presidents and vice-presidents, yet little is known about the effectiveness of this program. On behalf of the American people, the Ways and Means Committee must determine if that policy is being followed, and, if so, whether these audits are conducted fully and appropriately. In order to fairly make that determination, we must obtain President Trump’s tax returns and review whether the IRS is carrying out its responsibilities. The Committee has a duty to examine whether Congressional action may be needed to require such audits, and to oversee that they are conducted properly.

“I today submitted to IRS Commissioner Rettig my request for six years of the president’s personal tax returns as well as the returns for some of his business entities. We have completed the necessary groundwork for a request of this magnitude and I am certain we are within our legitimate legislative, legal, and oversight rights.

“I take the authority to make this request very seriously, and I approach it with the utmost care and respect. This request is about policy, not politics; my preparations were made on my own track and timeline, entirely independent of other activities in Congress and the Administration. My actions reflect an abiding reverence for our democracy and our institutions, and are in no way based on emotion of the moment or partisanship. I trust that in this spirit, the IRS will comply with Federal law and furnish me with the requested documents in a timely manner.”

Well they're going to have a hell of a fight:

The House Ways and Means Committee has now asked the Treasury Department for the president’s tax returns, which it has a legal right to do. And, according to the law, the Treasury Department “shall” comply.

This seems pretty definitive. Shall means shall. Like, no wiggle room.


But there are overlays of constitutional law and political power that could, and I think likely will, thwart Congress’ effort to get Trump’s tax returns.

First, the law. While it is true that IRS Code 6103(f) appears to give the committee the power to get tax returns, the statute must be exercised in a way consistent with Congress’ constitutional authority. The Supreme Court has said Congress has broad authority to conduct inquiries but that its authority is not unlimited. In the 1881 case Kilbourn v. Thompson, the Supreme Court held that Congress can’t use its powers to delve into someone’s private financial matters unless there is a proper legislative purpose. In 1957, the Supreme Court held in Watkins v. U.S. that a congressional information demand must relate to a “legitimate task of the Congress” and noted that Congress is not a “law enforcement agency” that can seek information to uncover or expose crimes.

Congressional oversight is oversight by the United States Congress over the Executive Branch, including the numerous U.S. federal agencies. Congressional oversight includes the review, monitoring, and supervision of federal agencies, programs, activities, and policy implementation.[1] Congress exercises this power largely through its congressional committee system. Oversight also occurs in a wide variety of congressional activities and contexts. These include authorization, appropriations, investigative, and legislative hearingsby standing committees; specialized investigations by select committees; and reviews and studies by congressional support agencies and staff.

The court disagrees with that. Nowhere does it say that the Congress has the right to confiscate tax returns for political vendetta.

Now if the Congress has any questions for the IRS, by all means, let them do their oversight. But keep Trump's personal records out of it as the court ruled. They can ask the IRS what they did in Trump's past audits, what they are doing now, what protocols they are using. But they cannot ask for Trump's tax returns in order to conduct oversight of the IRS.

You keep working on that presentation. They might call on you to present that case to the court. Be sure to wear something nice. Dumb ass.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I don't think it will go that far.

First off they have to have a reason for wanting those returns. They can't say it's because they suspect something illegal in paying taxes. The IRS has the authority there. They can't say it has anything to do with Russia. Mueller already put that to rest.

So what legitimate reason would they have to confiscate those records?

Neal Statement on Requesting President Trump’s Tax Returns
“It is critical to ensure the accountability of our government and elected officials. To maintain trust in our democracy, the American people must be assured that their government is operating properly, as laws intend.

“Congress, as a co-equal branch of government, has a duty to conduct oversight of departments and officials. The Ways and Means Committee in particular has a responsibility to conduct oversight of our voluntary Federal tax system and determine how Americans – including those elected to our highest office – are complying with those laws. It is also our duty to evaluate the operation of the Internal Revenue Service in its administration and enforcement of the tax laws.

“The IRS has a policy of auditing the tax returns of all sitting presidents and vice-presidents, yet little is known about the effectiveness of this program. On behalf of the American people, the Ways and Means Committee must determine if that policy is being followed, and, if so, whether these audits are conducted fully and appropriately. In order to fairly make that determination, we must obtain President Trump’s tax returns and review whether the IRS is carrying out its responsibilities. The Committee has a duty to examine whether Congressional action may be needed to require such audits, and to oversee that they are conducted properly.

“I today submitted to IRS Commissioner Rettig my request for six years of the president’s personal tax returns as well as the returns for some of his business entities. We have completed the necessary groundwork for a request of this magnitude and I am certain we are within our legitimate legislative, legal, and oversight rights.

“I take the authority to make this request very seriously, and I approach it with the utmost care and respect. This request is about policy, not politics; my preparations were made on my own track and timeline, entirely independent of other activities in Congress and the Administration. My actions reflect an abiding reverence for our democracy and our institutions, and are in no way based on emotion of the moment or partisanship. I trust that in this spirit, the IRS will comply with Federal law and furnish me with the requested documents in a timely manner.”

Well they're going to have a hell of a fight:

The House Ways and Means Committee has now asked the Treasury Department for the president’s tax returns, which it has a legal right to do. And, according to the law, the Treasury Department “shall” comply.

This seems pretty definitive. Shall means shall. Like, no wiggle room.


But there are overlays of constitutional law and political power that could, and I think likely will, thwart Congress’ effort to get Trump’s tax returns.

First, the law. While it is true that IRS Code 6103(f) appears to give the committee the power to get tax returns, the statute must be exercised in a way consistent with Congress’ constitutional authority. The Supreme Court has said Congress has broad authority to conduct inquiries but that its authority is not unlimited. In the 1881 case Kilbourn v. Thompson, the Supreme Court held that Congress can’t use its powers to delve into someone’s private financial matters unless there is a proper legislative purpose. In 1957, the Supreme Court held in Watkins v. U.S. that a congressional information demand must relate to a “legitimate task of the Congress” and noted that Congress is not a “law enforcement agency” that can seek information to uncover or expose crimes.

Congressional oversight is oversight by the United States Congress over the Executive Branch, including the numerous U.S. federal agencies. Congressional oversight includes the review, monitoring, and supervision of federal agencies, programs, activities, and policy implementation.[1] Congress exercises this power largely through its congressional committee system. Oversight also occurs in a wide variety of congressional activities and contexts. These include authorization, appropriations, investigative, and legislative hearingsby standing committees; specialized investigations by select committees; and reviews and studies by congressional support agencies and staff.

The court disagrees with that. Nowhere does it say that the Congress has the right to confiscate tax returns for political vendetta.

Now if the Congress has any questions for the IRS, by all means, let them do their oversight. But keep Trump's personal records out of it as the court ruled. They can ask the IRS what they did in Trump's past audits, what they are doing now, what protocols they are using. But they cannot ask for Trump's tax returns in order to conduct oversight of the IRS.

You keep working on that presentation. They might call on you to present that case to the court. Be sure to wear something nice. Dumb ass.

Oh! I'm sure they would call you before me.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I don't think it will go that far.

First off they have to have a reason for wanting those returns. They can't say it's because they suspect something illegal in paying taxes. The IRS has the authority there. They can't say it has anything to do with Russia. Mueller already put that to rest.

So what legitimate reason would they have to confiscate those records?

Neal Statement on Requesting President Trump’s Tax Returns
“It is critical to ensure the accountability of our government and elected officials. To maintain trust in our democracy, the American people must be assured that their government is operating properly, as laws intend.

“Congress, as a co-equal branch of government, has a duty to conduct oversight of departments and officials. The Ways and Means Committee in particular has a responsibility to conduct oversight of our voluntary Federal tax system and determine how Americans – including those elected to our highest office – are complying with those laws. It is also our duty to evaluate the operation of the Internal Revenue Service in its administration and enforcement of the tax laws.

“The IRS has a policy of auditing the tax returns of all sitting presidents and vice-presidents, yet little is known about the effectiveness of this program. On behalf of the American people, the Ways and Means Committee must determine if that policy is being followed, and, if so, whether these audits are conducted fully and appropriately. In order to fairly make that determination, we must obtain President Trump’s tax returns and review whether the IRS is carrying out its responsibilities. The Committee has a duty to examine whether Congressional action may be needed to require such audits, and to oversee that they are conducted properly.

“I today submitted to IRS Commissioner Rettig my request for six years of the president’s personal tax returns as well as the returns for some of his business entities. We have completed the necessary groundwork for a request of this magnitude and I am certain we are within our legitimate legislative, legal, and oversight rights.

“I take the authority to make this request very seriously, and I approach it with the utmost care and respect. This request is about policy, not politics; my preparations were made on my own track and timeline, entirely independent of other activities in Congress and the Administration. My actions reflect an abiding reverence for our democracy and our institutions, and are in no way based on emotion of the moment or partisanship. I trust that in this spirit, the IRS will comply with Federal law and furnish me with the requested documents in a timely manner.”

Well they're going to have a hell of a fight:

The House Ways and Means Committee has now asked the Treasury Department for the president’s tax returns, which it has a legal right to do. And, according to the law, the Treasury Department “shall” comply.

This seems pretty definitive. Shall means shall. Like, no wiggle room.


But there are overlays of constitutional law and political power that could, and I think likely will, thwart Congress’ effort to get Trump’s tax returns.

First, the law. While it is true that IRS Code 6103(f) appears to give the committee the power to get tax returns, the statute must be exercised in a way consistent with Congress’ constitutional authority. The Supreme Court has said Congress has broad authority to conduct inquiries but that its authority is not unlimited. In the 1881 case Kilbourn v. Thompson, the Supreme Court held that Congress can’t use its powers to delve into someone’s private financial matters unless there is a proper legislative purpose. In 1957, the Supreme Court held in Watkins v. U.S. that a congressional information demand must relate to a “legitimate task of the Congress” and noted that Congress is not a “law enforcement agency” that can seek information to uncover or expose crimes.

Congressional oversight is oversight by the United States Congress over the Executive Branch, including the numerous U.S. federal agencies. Congressional oversight includes the review, monitoring, and supervision of federal agencies, programs, activities, and policy implementation.[1] Congress exercises this power largely through its congressional committee system. Oversight also occurs in a wide variety of congressional activities and contexts. These include authorization, appropriations, investigative, and legislative hearingsby standing committees; specialized investigations by select committees; and reviews and studies by congressional support agencies and staff.

The court disagrees with that. Nowhere does it say that the Congress has the right to confiscate tax returns for political vendetta.

Now if the Congress has any questions for the IRS, by all means, let them do their oversight. But keep Trump's personal records out of it as the court ruled. They can ask the IRS what they did in Trump's past audits, what they are doing now, what protocols they are using. But they cannot ask for Trump's tax returns in order to conduct oversight of the IRS.

The Congress can request these records as a part of their oversight. Trump constantly says he cannot release his tax records because they are under audit. The Congress can investigate that and can get Trump's tax records.

As my link points out, yes, they can make such a request. But also as the court ruled, it does not come without limitations.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They don't need to disclose any information on the tax return. They just open an investigation to follow the money. Most of what's on the tax return would mean nothing to the public.

Investigation on follow the money? Isn't that what the IRS is supposed to be doing?

 

[busybee01]

Neal Statement on Requesting President Trump’s Tax Returns
“It is critical to ensure the accountability of our government and elected officials. To maintain trust in our democracy, the American people must be assured that their government is operating properly, as laws intend.

“Congress, as a co-equal branch of government, has a duty to conduct oversight of departments and officials. The Ways and Means Committee in particular has a responsibility to conduct oversight of our voluntary Federal tax system and determine how Americans – including those elected to our highest office – are complying with those laws. It is also our duty to evaluate the operation of the Internal Revenue Service in its administration and enforcement of the tax laws.

“The IRS has a policy of auditing the tax returns of all sitting presidents and vice-presidents, yet little is known about the effectiveness of this program. On behalf of the American people, the Ways and Means Committee must determine if that policy is being followed, and, if so, whether these audits are conducted fully and appropriately. In order to fairly make that determination, we must obtain President Trump’s tax returns and review whether the IRS is carrying out its responsibilities. The Committee has a duty to examine whether Congressional action may be needed to require such audits, and to oversee that they are conducted properly.

“I today submitted to IRS Commissioner Rettig my request for six years of the president’s personal tax returns as well as the returns for some of his business entities. We have completed the necessary groundwork for a request of this magnitude and I am certain we are within our legitimate legislative, legal, and oversight rights.

“I take the authority to make this request very seriously, and I approach it with the utmost care and respect. This request is about policy, not politics; my preparations were made on my own track and timeline, entirely independent of other activities in Congress and the Administration. My actions reflect an abiding reverence for our democracy and our institutions, and are in no way based on emotion of the moment or partisanship. I trust that in this spirit, the IRS will comply with Federal law and furnish me with the requested documents in a timely manner.”

Well they're going to have a hell of a fight:

The House Ways and Means Committee has now asked the Treasury Department for the president’s tax returns, which it has a legal right to do. And, according to the law, the Treasury Department “shall” comply.

This seems pretty definitive. Shall means shall. Like, no wiggle room.


But there are overlays of constitutional law and political power that could, and I think likely will, thwart Congress’ effort to get Trump’s tax returns.

First, the law. While it is true that IRS Code 6103(f) appears to give the committee the power to get tax returns, the statute must be exercised in a way consistent with Congress’ constitutional authority. The Supreme Court has said Congress has broad authority to conduct inquiries but that its authority is not unlimited. In the 1881 case Kilbourn v. Thompson, the Supreme Court held that Congress can’t use its powers to delve into someone’s private financial matters unless there is a proper legislative purpose. In 1957, the Supreme Court held in Watkins v. U.S. that a congressional information demand must relate to a “legitimate task of the Congress” and noted that Congress is not a “law enforcement agency” that can seek information to uncover or expose crimes.

Congressional oversight is oversight by the United States Congress over the Executive Branch, including the numerous U.S. federal agencies. Congressional oversight includes the review, monitoring, and supervision of federal agencies, programs, activities, and policy implementation.[1] Congress exercises this power largely through its congressional committee system. Oversight also occurs in a wide variety of congressional activities and contexts. These include authorization, appropriations, investigative, and legislative hearingsby standing committees; specialized investigations by select committees; and reviews and studies by congressional support agencies and staff.

The court disagrees with that. Nowhere does it say that the Congress has the right to confiscate tax returns for political vendetta.

Now if the Congress has any questions for the IRS, by all means, let them do their oversight. But keep Trump's personal records out of it as the court ruled. They can ask the IRS what they did in Trump's past audits, what they are doing now, what protocols they are using. But they cannot ask for Trump's tax returns in order to conduct oversight of the IRS.

The Congress can request these records as a part of their oversight. Trump constantly says he cannot release his tax records because they are under audit. The Congress can investigate that and can get Trump's tax records.

As my link points out, yes, they can make such a request. But also as the court ruled, it does not come without limitations.

The court rulings do not apply.

"Trump’s lawyer, Jay Sekulow, appearing on ABC’s “This Week,” pointed out that the Supreme Court has held that congressional oversight cannot become law enforcement. He’s right — but he is advancing a red herring. The IRS alone enforces the tax law, assessing and collecting taxes due from any taxpayer. Neal’s possession of Trump’s tax returns would not change that."

The law is clear on disclosing Trump’s tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee

 

[bripat9643]

Nobody is surprised. The request had to be made and denied before it could go to court. It's no where near over.

Have you considered that if he is forced to have them released that the House cannot use them as evidence in any impeachment case?

Maybe the smart thing to do if there were something nefarious in those returns to drop them in Nadler's lap, so he can fondle them for his pleasure and then they will be useless as they cannot be used as evidence.

Why not, impeachment is not a legal but political process.

The only reason they would be in possession of the tax returns is legislative. As you pointed out, impeachment is a political process, not a legislative one.

The responsibilities of congress goes beyond just legislation. Congress has the responsibility of oversight of the executive branch which includes the IRS.

It doesn't have the responsibility of overseeing Trump, personally.

 

[bripat9643]

Well they're going to have a hell of a fight:

The House Ways and Means Committee has now asked the Treasury Department for the president’s tax returns, which it has a legal right to do. And, according to the law, the Treasury Department “shall” comply.

This seems pretty definitive. Shall means shall. Like, no wiggle room.


But there are overlays of constitutional law and political power that could, and I think likely will, thwart Congress’ effort to get Trump’s tax returns.

First, the law. While it is true that IRS Code 6103(f) appears to give the committee the power to get tax returns, the statute must be exercised in a way consistent with Congress’ constitutional authority. The Supreme Court has said Congress has broad authority to conduct inquiries but that its authority is not unlimited. In the 1881 case Kilbourn v. Thompson, the Supreme Court held that Congress can’t use its powers to delve into someone’s private financial matters unless there is a proper legislative purpose. In 1957, the Supreme Court held in Watkins v. U.S. that a congressional information demand must relate to a “legitimate task of the Congress” and noted that Congress is not a “law enforcement agency” that can seek information to uncover or expose crimes.

Congressional oversight is oversight by the United States Congress over the Executive Branch, including the numerous U.S. federal agencies. Congressional oversight includes the review, monitoring, and supervision of federal agencies, programs, activities, and policy implementation.[1] Congress exercises this power largely through its congressional committee system. Oversight also occurs in a wide variety of congressional activities and contexts. These include authorization, appropriations, investigative, and legislative hearingsby standing committees; specialized investigations by select committees; and reviews and studies by congressional support agencies and staff.

The court disagrees with that. Nowhere does it say that the Congress has the right to confiscate tax returns for political vendetta.

Now if the Congress has any questions for the IRS, by all means, let them do their oversight. But keep Trump's personal records out of it as the court ruled. They can ask the IRS what they did in Trump's past audits, what they are doing now, what protocols they are using. But they cannot ask for Trump's tax returns in order to conduct oversight of the IRS.

The Congress can request these records as a part of their oversight. Trump constantly says he cannot release his tax records because they are under audit. The Congress can investigate that and can get Trump's tax records.

As my link points out, yes, they can make such a request. But also as the court ruled, it does not come without limitations.

The court rulings do not apply.

"Trump’s lawyer, Jay Sekulow, appearing on ABC’s “This Week,” pointed out that the Supreme Court has held that congressional oversight cannot become law enforcement. He’s right — but he is advancing a red herring. The IRS alone enforces the tax law, assessing and collecting taxes due from any taxpayer. Neal’s possession of Trump’s tax returns would not change that."

The law is clear on disclosing Trump’s tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee

That's why there's no justification for Congress to obtain Trump's tax returns. It has no law enforcement purpose, and no legitimate legislative purpose. It's a fishing expedition, and anyone who denies it is a lying douchebag.

 

[bripat9643]

The IRS has no choice but to turn over the tax returns.

U.S. Code Title 26. INTERNAL REVENUE CODE

(f) Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation


Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(2) Chief of Staff of Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request by the Chief of Staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish him with any return or return information specified in such request. Such Chief of Staff may submit such return or return information to any committee described in paragraph (1), except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(3) Other committees
Pursuant to an action by, and upon written request by the chairman of, a committee of the Senate or the House of Representatives (other than a committee specified in paragraph (1)) specially authorized to inspect any return or return information by a resolution of the Senate or the House of Representatives or, in the case of a joint committee (other than the joint committee specified in paragraph (1)) by concurrent resolution, the Secretary shall furnish such committee, or a duly authorized and designated subcommittee thereof, sitting in closed executive session, with any return or return information which such resolution authorizes the committee or subcommittee to inspect. Any resolution described in this paragraph shall specify the purpose for which the return or return information is to be furnished and that such information cannot reasonably be obtained from any other source.

It says "shall" not if, and or but. They will have to comply or go to jail.

And the Congress has to keep the info private and can only let those in the Executive meeting see it on penalty of a Felony charge.

"But if that question does get posed — does the Ways and Means Committee have a solid reason to put Trump’s tax returns in the public House record? — it turns out that the Republicans have poisoned their own well.

The only precedent on such a move stems from 2014. Back then, congressional Republicans were on the warpath, insisting that the IRS improperly discriminated against conservative organizations seeking tax-exempt status.

The allegations were overstated and largely trumped up. But what’s important here is that the committee, voting on party lines, released into the public record tax return information of more than 50 organizations, for absolutely no reason beyond their hope to embarrass Democrats. If Trump challenges a public release of his tax information in court, he should fear that Republicans’ 2014 political power move could color the outcome."

The law is clear on disclosing Trump’s tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee

Republicans did not release anyone's tax returns.

 

[bripat9643]

I don't think it will go that far.

First off they have to have a reason for wanting those returns. They can't say it's because they suspect something illegal in paying taxes. The IRS has the authority there. They can't say it has anything to do with Russia. Mueller already put that to rest.

So what legitimate reason would they have to confiscate those records?

Neal Statement on Requesting President Trump’s Tax Returns
“It is critical to ensure the accountability of our government and elected officials. To maintain trust in our democracy, the American people must be assured that their government is operating properly, as laws intend.

“Congress, as a co-equal branch of government, has a duty to conduct oversight of departments and officials. The Ways and Means Committee in particular has a responsibility to conduct oversight of our voluntary Federal tax system and determine how Americans – including those elected to our highest office – are complying with those laws. It is also our duty to evaluate the operation of the Internal Revenue Service in its administration and enforcement of the tax laws.

“The IRS has a policy of auditing the tax returns of all sitting presidents and vice-presidents, yet little is known about the effectiveness of this program. On behalf of the American people, the Ways and Means Committee must determine if that policy is being followed, and, if so, whether these audits are conducted fully and appropriately. In order to fairly make that determination, we must obtain President Trump’s tax returns and review whether the IRS is carrying out its responsibilities. The Committee has a duty to examine whether Congressional action may be needed to require such audits, and to oversee that they are conducted properly.

“I today submitted to IRS Commissioner Rettig my request for six years of the president’s personal tax returns as well as the returns for some of his business entities. We have completed the necessary groundwork for a request of this magnitude and I am certain we are within our legitimate legislative, legal, and oversight rights.

“I take the authority to make this request very seriously, and I approach it with the utmost care and respect. This request is about policy, not politics; my preparations were made on my own track and timeline, entirely independent of other activities in Congress and the Administration. My actions reflect an abiding reverence for our democracy and our institutions, and are in no way based on emotion of the moment or partisanship. I trust that in this spirit, the IRS will comply with Federal law and furnish me with the requested documents in a timely manner.”

Well they're going to have a hell of a fight:

The House Ways and Means Committee has now asked the Treasury Department for the president’s tax returns, which it has a legal right to do. And, according to the law, the Treasury Department “shall” comply.

This seems pretty definitive. Shall means shall. Like, no wiggle room.


But there are overlays of constitutional law and political power that could, and I think likely will, thwart Congress’ effort to get Trump’s tax returns.

First, the law. While it is true that IRS Code 6103(f) appears to give the committee the power to get tax returns, the statute must be exercised in a way consistent with Congress’ constitutional authority. The Supreme Court has said Congress has broad authority to conduct inquiries but that its authority is not unlimited. In the 1881 case Kilbourn v. Thompson, the Supreme Court held that Congress can’t use its powers to delve into someone’s private financial matters unless there is a proper legislative purpose. In 1957, the Supreme Court held in Watkins v. U.S. that a congressional information demand must relate to a “legitimate task of the Congress” and noted that Congress is not a “law enforcement agency” that can seek information to uncover or expose crimes.

Congressional oversight is oversight by the United States Congress over the Executive Branch, including the numerous U.S. federal agencies. Congressional oversight includes the review, monitoring, and supervision of federal agencies, programs, activities, and policy implementation.[1] Congress exercises this power largely through its congressional committee system. Oversight also occurs in a wide variety of congressional activities and contexts. These include authorization, appropriations, investigative, and legislative hearingsby standing committees; specialized investigations by select committees; and reviews and studies by congressional support agencies and staff.

The court disagrees with that. Nowhere does it say that the Congress has the right to confiscate tax returns for political vendetta.

Now if the Congress has any questions for the IRS, by all means, let them do their oversight. But keep Trump's personal records out of it as the court ruled. They can ask the IRS what they did in Trump's past audits, what they are doing now, what protocols they are using. But they cannot ask for Trump's tax returns in order to conduct oversight of the IRS.

The Congress can request these records as a part of their oversight. Trump constantly says he cannot release his tax records because they are under audit. The Congress can investigate that and can get Trump's tax records.

Congress has no authority to do that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well they're going to have a hell of a fight:

The House Ways and Means Committee has now asked the Treasury Department for the president’s tax returns, which it has a legal right to do. And, according to the law, the Treasury Department “shall” comply.

This seems pretty definitive. Shall means shall. Like, no wiggle room.


But there are overlays of constitutional law and political power that could, and I think likely will, thwart Congress’ effort to get Trump’s tax returns.

First, the law. While it is true that IRS Code 6103(f) appears to give the committee the power to get tax returns, the statute must be exercised in a way consistent with Congress’ constitutional authority. The Supreme Court has said Congress has broad authority to conduct inquiries but that its authority is not unlimited. In the 1881 case Kilbourn v. Thompson, the Supreme Court held that Congress can’t use its powers to delve into someone’s private financial matters unless there is a proper legislative purpose. In 1957, the Supreme Court held in Watkins v. U.S. that a congressional information demand must relate to a “legitimate task of the Congress” and noted that Congress is not a “law enforcement agency” that can seek information to uncover or expose crimes.

Congressional oversight is oversight by the United States Congress over the Executive Branch, including the numerous U.S. federal agencies. Congressional oversight includes the review, monitoring, and supervision of federal agencies, programs, activities, and policy implementation.[1] Congress exercises this power largely through its congressional committee system. Oversight also occurs in a wide variety of congressional activities and contexts. These include authorization, appropriations, investigative, and legislative hearingsby standing committees; specialized investigations by select committees; and reviews and studies by congressional support agencies and staff.

The court disagrees with that. Nowhere does it say that the Congress has the right to confiscate tax returns for political vendetta.

Now if the Congress has any questions for the IRS, by all means, let them do their oversight. But keep Trump's personal records out of it as the court ruled. They can ask the IRS what they did in Trump's past audits, what they are doing now, what protocols they are using. But they cannot ask for Trump's tax returns in order to conduct oversight of the IRS.

The Congress can request these records as a part of their oversight. Trump constantly says he cannot release his tax records because they are under audit. The Congress can investigate that and can get Trump's tax records.

As my link points out, yes, they can make such a request. But also as the court ruled, it does not come without limitations.

The court rulings do not apply.

"Trump’s lawyer, Jay Sekulow, appearing on ABC’s “This Week,” pointed out that the Supreme Court has held that congressional oversight cannot become law enforcement. He’s right — but he is advancing a red herring. The IRS alone enforces the tax law, assessing and collecting taxes due from any taxpayer. Neal’s possession of Trump’s tax returns would not change that."

The law is clear on disclosing Trump’s tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee

Gee, what a surprise, the LA Times.

Well I say go ahead. I want to see Trump use this abuse of power for his campaign in 2020. It will assist in his reelection and perhaps turning the Congress back to the right people--the Republicans.

It isn't bad enough that this Democrat led Congress got absolutely nothing done since they took over, but their mad witch hunt that's been taking place since before Trump was elected. People are not only sick of it, they're angry about it. Why would you put a party in power who's only mission is to destroy the President of the opposite party?

Well good luck Democrats "trying" to get those returns without a years long fight. Because this so called law was already heard by the courts and ruled un-constitutional; it's just that it's never been challenged before. I also hope that Trump follows through with a lawsuit. Oh, and if Democrats actually do something besides harass this President, good luck getting him to sign any bill they put forward.

 

[jc456]

Then why won't he just show them? You Trumpets are falling all over yourselves to come up with reasons why he shouldn't show them. Too funny.

Why should he?? I wouldn't show mine and I'd bet you wouldn't show anyone yours either.

There is no law that says anyone has to show their tax returns to anyone.

If you and the other lefty loons weren't so fixated on finding something, anything you think you could hang on the man you wouldn't give shit one about his tax returns.

Too funny.

When someone won't show them as is tradition, there's something being hidden. You sound afraid of that.

I doubt that. The man has been audited both personally and professionally many times. If there were something to find the IRS would have found it.

Oh I'm not afraid of it but you sound like you are depending on it.

Good luck with that. LOL

Not a Dem so I don't care in the end. It's just fun to see you all squirm. Him too.

The only people squirming are the Democrats in the House, and Trump is laughing his ass off watching them.

Only the guilty squirm

 

[Billo_Really]

The law if you read it, clearly STATES that any records that identify an individual MUST be reviewed ONLY in private executive meetings and that any disclose of private information is a criminal offense. I suggest YOU read the law you fucking dumb ass.

You got a real problem. You care more about the republican party than you do about the United States of America. I know this because of your deliberate comprehension issues. Alright, pencils down and eyes to the front of the class...

...lets go over this "law" you keep referring to and claiming I haven't read (after I already posted and commented on)...

...lets do this step by step...que pasa mutha?

1. This is the code:

26 U.S. Code § 6103.Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information

(a)General rule Returns and return information shall be confidential, and except as authorized by this title—
​

2. Returns shall be kept confidential, except as authorized by this title. And this is the authorization...

(f)Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request...
​

3. The Secretary "shall" furnish. Shall means shall. There is no discretion there. And your argument that Trumps returns...

...shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.​

​

...doesn't mean you can refuse to turn over such returns to a Congressional Committee with a Constitutional job of government oversight.

The House Ways and Means Committee is a very powerful committee and has the Constitutional right to demand those returns to make sure Trump has not defrauded the US government. And the fact you are arguing to the contrary, means you don't care whether the US government is defrauded or not.

 

[Billo_Really]

ROFL! Let's see the Dims arrest him.

You sure do love banana republics!

 

[jc456]

The law if you read it, clearly STATES that any records that identify an individual MUST be reviewed ONLY in private executive meetings and that any disclose of private information is a criminal offense. I suggest YOU read the law you fucking dumb ass.

You got a real problem. You care more about the republican party than you do about the United States of America. I know this because of your deliberate comprehension issues. Alright, pencils down and eyes to the front of the class...

...lets go over this "law" you keep referring to and claiming I haven't read (after I already posted and commented on)...

...lets do this step by step...que pasa mutha?

1. This is the code:

26 U.S. Code § 6103.Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information

(a)General rule Returns and return information shall be confidential, and except as authorized by this title—
​

2. Returns shall be kept confidential, except as authorized by this title. And this is the authorization...

(f)Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request...
​

3. The Secretary "shall" furnish. Shall means shall. There is no discretion there. And your argument that Trumps returns...

...shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.​

​

...doesn't mean you can refuse to turn over such returns to a Congressional Committee with a Constitutional job of government oversight.

The House Ways and Means Committee is a very powerful committee and has the Constitutional right to demand those returns to make sure Trump has not defrauded the US government. And the fact you are arguing to the contrary, means you don't care whether the US government is defrauded or not.

What happens if he doesn’t?

 

[jc456]

ROFL! Let's see the Dims arrest him.

You sure do love banana republics!

You like buttlosing

 

[jc456]

The IRS has no choice but to turn over the tax returns.

U.S. Code Title 26. INTERNAL REVENUE CODE

(f) Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation


Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(2) Chief of Staff of Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request by the Chief of Staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish him with any return or return information specified in such request. Such Chief of Staff may submit such return or return information to any committee described in paragraph (1), except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(3) Other committees
Pursuant to an action by, and upon written request by the chairman of, a committee of the Senate or the House of Representatives (other than a committee specified in paragraph (1)) specially authorized to inspect any return or return information by a resolution of the Senate or the House of Representatives or, in the case of a joint committee (other than the joint committee specified in paragraph (1)) by concurrent resolution, the Secretary shall furnish such committee, or a duly authorized and designated subcommittee thereof, sitting in closed executive session, with any return or return information which such resolution authorizes the committee or subcommittee to inspect. Any resolution described in this paragraph shall specify the purpose for which the return or return information is to be furnished and that such information cannot reasonably be obtained from any other source.

It says "shall" not if, and or but. They will have to comply or go to jail.

And the Congress has to keep the info private and can only let those in the Executive meeting see it on penalty of a Felony charge.

"But if that question does get posed — does the Ways and Means Committee have a solid reason to put Trump’s tax returns in the public House record? — it turns out that the Republicans have poisoned their own well.

The only precedent on such a move stems from 2014. Back then, congressional Republicans were on the warpath, insisting that the IRS improperly discriminated against conservative organizations seeking tax-exempt status.

The allegations were overstated and largely trumped up. But what’s important here is that the committee, voting on party lines, released into the public record tax return information of more than 50 organizations, for absolutely no reason beyond their hope to embarrass Democrats. If Trump challenges a public release of his tax information in court, he should fear that Republicans’ 2014 political power move could color the outcome."

The law is clear on disclosing Trump’s tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee

No

 

[jc456]

The IRS has no choice but to turn over the tax returns.

U.S. Code Title 26. INTERNAL REVENUE CODE

(f) Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation


Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(2) Chief of Staff of Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request by the Chief of Staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish him with any return or return information specified in such request. Such Chief of Staff may submit such return or return information to any committee described in paragraph (1), except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

(3) Other committees
Pursuant to an action by, and upon written request by the chairman of, a committee of the Senate or the House of Representatives (other than a committee specified in paragraph (1)) specially authorized to inspect any return or return information by a resolution of the Senate or the House of Representatives or, in the case of a joint committee (other than the joint committee specified in paragraph (1)) by concurrent resolution, the Secretary shall furnish such committee, or a duly authorized and designated subcommittee thereof, sitting in closed executive session, with any return or return information which such resolution authorizes the committee or subcommittee to inspect. Any resolution described in this paragraph shall specify the purpose for which the return or return information is to be furnished and that such information cannot reasonably be obtained from any other source.

It says "shall" not if, and or but. They will have to comply or go to jail.

And the Congress has to keep the info private and can only let those in the Executive meeting see it on penalty of a Felony charge.

They don't need to disclose any information on the tax return. They just open an investigation to follow the money. Most of what's on the tax return would mean nothing to the public.

What is it you think you is might find? 1099’s? Those are all legal don’t you trust the IRS? You’re confused

 

[jc456]

I don't think it will go that far.

First off they have to have a reason for wanting those returns. They can't say it's because they suspect something illegal in paying taxes. The IRS has the authority there. They can't say it has anything to do with Russia. Mueller already put that to rest.

So what legitimate reason would they have to confiscate those records?

Neal Statement on Requesting President Trump’s Tax Returns
“It is critical to ensure the accountability of our government and elected officials. To maintain trust in our democracy, the American people must be assured that their government is operating properly, as laws intend.

“Congress, as a co-equal branch of government, has a duty to conduct oversight of departments and officials. The Ways and Means Committee in particular has a responsibility to conduct oversight of our voluntary Federal tax system and determine how Americans – including those elected to our highest office – are complying with those laws. It is also our duty to evaluate the operation of the Internal Revenue Service in its administration and enforcement of the tax laws.

“The IRS has a policy of auditing the tax returns of all sitting presidents and vice-presidents, yet little is known about the effectiveness of this program. On behalf of the American people, the Ways and Means Committee must determine if that policy is being followed, and, if so, whether these audits are conducted fully and appropriately. In order to fairly make that determination, we must obtain President Trump’s tax returns and review whether the IRS is carrying out its responsibilities. The Committee has a duty to examine whether Congressional action may be needed to require such audits, and to oversee that they are conducted properly.

“I today submitted to IRS Commissioner Rettig my request for six years of the president’s personal tax returns as well as the returns for some of his business entities. We have completed the necessary groundwork for a request of this magnitude and I am certain we are within our legitimate legislative, legal, and oversight rights.

“I take the authority to make this request very seriously, and I approach it with the utmost care and respect. This request is about policy, not politics; my preparations were made on my own track and timeline, entirely independent of other activities in Congress and the Administration. My actions reflect an abiding reverence for our democracy and our institutions, and are in no way based on emotion of the moment or partisanship. I trust that in this spirit, the IRS will comply with Federal law and furnish me with the requested documents in a timely manner.”

Well they're going to have a hell of a fight:

The House Ways and Means Committee has now asked the Treasury Department for the president’s tax returns, which it has a legal right to do. And, according to the law, the Treasury Department “shall” comply.

This seems pretty definitive. Shall means shall. Like, no wiggle room.


But there are overlays of constitutional law and political power that could, and I think likely will, thwart Congress’ effort to get Trump’s tax returns.

First, the law. While it is true that IRS Code 6103(f) appears to give the committee the power to get tax returns, the statute must be exercised in a way consistent with Congress’ constitutional authority. The Supreme Court has said Congress has broad authority to conduct inquiries but that its authority is not unlimited. In the 1881 case Kilbourn v. Thompson, the Supreme Court held that Congress can’t use its powers to delve into someone’s private financial matters unless there is a proper legislative purpose. In 1957, the Supreme Court held in Watkins v. U.S. that a congressional information demand must relate to a “legitimate task of the Congress” and noted that Congress is not a “law enforcement agency” that can seek information to uncover or expose crimes.

Congressional oversight is oversight by the United States Congress over the Executive Branch, including the numerous U.S. federal agencies. Congressional oversight includes the review, monitoring, and supervision of federal agencies, programs, activities, and policy implementation.[1] Congress exercises this power largely through its congressional committee system. Oversight also occurs in a wide variety of congressional activities and contexts. These include authorization, appropriations, investigative, and legislative hearingsby standing committees; specialized investigations by select committees; and reviews and studies by congressional support agencies and staff.

The court disagrees with that. Nowhere does it say that the Congress has the right to confiscate tax returns for political vendetta.

Now if the Congress has any questions for the IRS, by all means, let them do their oversight. But keep Trump's personal records out of it as the court ruled. They can ask the IRS what they did in Trump's past audits, what they are doing now, what protocols they are using. But they cannot ask for Trump's tax returns in order to conduct oversight of the IRS.

The Congress can request these records as a part of their oversight. Trump constantly says he cannot release his tax records because they are under audit. The Congress can investigate that and can get Trump's tax records.

And?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The law if you read it, clearly STATES that any records that identify an individual MUST be reviewed ONLY in private executive meetings and that any disclose of private information is a criminal offense. I suggest YOU read the law you fucking dumb ass.

You got a real problem. You care more about the republican party than you do about the United States of America. I know this because of your deliberate comprehension issues. Alright, pencils down and eyes to the front of the class...

...lets go over this "law" you keep referring to and claiming I haven't read (after I already posted and commented on)...

...lets do this step by step...que pasa mutha?

1. This is the code:

26 U.S. Code § 6103.Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return information

(a)General rule Returns and return information shall be confidential, and except as authorized by this title—
​

2. Returns shall be kept confidential, except as authorized by this title. And this is the authorization...

(f)Disclosure to Committees of Congress
(1) Committee on Ways and Means, Committee on Finance, and Joint Committee on Taxation
Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request...
​

3. The Secretary "shall" furnish. Shall means shall. There is no discretion there. And your argument that Trumps returns...

...shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.​

​

...doesn't mean you can refuse to turn over such returns to a Congressional Committee with a Constitutional job of government oversight.

The House Ways and Means Committee is a very powerful committee and has the Constitutional right to demand those returns to make sure Trump has not defrauded the US government. And the fact you are arguing to the contrary, means you don't care whether the US government is defrauded or not.

Keep reading you fucking MORON. It has been cited here as well it clearly says what I said it says and your refusal to admit it only proves you are a partisan hack bent on revenge.