The Lazy Poor

[Againsheila]

PoliticalChic's argument is that ALL of that should be ended, completely.

Do you agree with her?

Sometimes. I've known a lot of welfare leaches over the years. We should do away with it completely and replace it with unemployment, for those who are looking for work, and disability, for those who can't work. Those two programs should be funded enough that we shouldn't have to have any other programs, like subsidized housing, section 8 and Food-stamps. Also, social security retirement should pay enough that our elderly don't need food-stamps or subsidized housing. The plain fact of the matter, is that all these programs are costing us way more than they should and if we paid enough that someone can afford an apartment, food and medical care, we wouldn't need those programs. In the long run, it would be cheaper.

1. Newt Gingrich's discussion about welfare reform, in his book, "Saving America."
Newt refers to a proposal by Peter Ferrara, who was in the White House Office of Policy Development under President Ronald Reagan.

The proposal goes like this: Block grants would still be provided to the states, and states would guarantee a day’s work assignment (paying the minimum wage) to everyone who reports to their local welfare office before 9:00 a.m. According to Newt, “The welfare office would provide free daycare for participants’ small children”, and the children would “receive medical care and treatment when necessary” (page 190).

Moreover, those working a certain number of hours would receive a Medicaid voucher for private health insurance as well as housing assistance so they could purchase a home. They would also receive the earned-income tax credit. Newt also affirms that the disabled would be trained for some line of work.

a. Based on minimum wage of $7.25, or $15,000 for a full year’s work, plus EITC, which is $3,000 with one child, and $5,000 with two, plus $1,000 per child tax credit. This plus the in-kind transfers of child care and health care, are an adequate safety net.

“What I like about this proposal is that it would give welfare recipients work experience and job skills rather than setting welfare against work.” Newt Gingrich?s To Save America 7: Welfare Reform, Health Care | James' Ramblings

b. The system would also end all incentives for having children outside of marriage, as a parent would have to work to support a child.


Wadda ya' think?

I think it would be another bureaucratic mess wasting money on overhead and upper management with very little of the money getting to those who need it. We don't need more government "departments" we have enough already.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Obviously the solution is to outlaw abortion and stop funding contraception so the poor can have more kids they can't sustain.

Nah, forced sterilization is a much better solution.

Sig Heil!

Funny that you should make that reference....(btw, 'sieg.')

President Obama endorses same, at least to the extent that he appointed John Holdren as his Science Czar.

1. John P. Holdren’s advocacy for a global planetary regime to enforce forced abortion, government `seizure of children born out of wedlock, and mandatory bodily implants designed to prevent pregnancy, Obama’s top advisor also called for,”Adding a sterilant to drinking water or staple foods.”
Holdren added that the sterilant must meet stiff requirements in that it must only affect humans and not livestock.

“It must be uniformly effective, despite widely varying doses received by individuals, and despite varying degrees of fertility and sensitivity among individuals; it must be free of dangerous or unpleasant side effects; and it must have no effect on members of the opposite sex, children, old people, pets, or livestock,” wrote Holdren with co-authors Paul Ehrlich and Anne Ehrlich.

Holdren notes that the proposal to forcibly mass sterilize the public against their will “seems to horrify people” and yet it doesn’t seem to bother him too much, amidst the myriad of other totalitarian Dr. Strangelove style ideas that are put forward in the book as a way to carry out an aggressive agenda of population reduction.» Obama Science Czar’s Plan To Sterilize Population Through Water Supply » Obama Science Czar?s Plan To Sterilize Population Through Water Supply Already Happening Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!


Embarrassing, huh?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Amazing again how misinformed the dupes are. Those on welfare DO have to work for all their benefits, DO have to apply for jobs, ARE screened for drugs, and HATE it.. The problem is your a-hole Pubs who started the Great World Recession, now obstruct the recovery, and fill your "minds" with such drivel and hate.

You really know nothing, huh?

How do you find your way back to the refrigerator-box you call home?


"Determined to destroy Bill Clinton’s signature achievement, President Obama’s administration has opened a loophole in the 1996 welfare reform legislation big enough to make the law ineffective. Its work requirement — the central feature of the legislation — has been diluted beyond recognition by the bureaucrats at the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).

On Thursday of last week, HHS issued regulations that modified — gutted — the work requirement. Its new regulations allow the states to substitute education programs for work to get welfare benefits."

Read more: Obama kills welfare reform - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com
Follow us: [MENTION=27326]The[/MENTION]hill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

 

[PoliticalChic]

There's not enough to go around for everyone to reach their potential. We're already graduating thousands from college who can't find jobs in what they were educated for.

That is the grim reality at its most basic level.

Hardly.
One grim reality is the education system that neglected to teach you not to end a sentence with a preposition.

The greater one is that fools major in Frisbee and Angry Women's Studies, and wonder why they end up bagging groceries.


The missing element is personal responsibility.

If you were 1/100th as smart as you imagine you are, you'd know that the claim that it's grammatically incorrect to end a sentence with a preposition is a MYTH.

But you're not that smart.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/ending-sentences-with-prepositions

"This is the kind of tedious [sometimes "pedantic"] nonsense up with which I will not put!"

—Alleged marginal note by Churchill, 27 February 1944, to a priggish civil servant's memo objecting to the ending of a sentences with prepositions. The New York Timesversion reported that the Prime Minister underscored “up” heavily.


What the world needs is more geniuses with humility, there are so few of us left.

 

[koshergrl]

I know quite a few people who are living in poverty who finished high school and never had kids. All of them have been laid off and can't find new jobs. We live in a crappy world right now and there just aren't enough jobs, our government has either outsourced them or insourced them and Americans are out of luck.

Yet the help wanted section of the newspapers are still full.

Have you ever check out those ads?

We have lost touch of the concept that our grandparents and pioneers down through the millennia understood...if you have to, you move to make your fortune. If you have no future in the place where you are, then you look further afield and you move somewhere where you CAN support yourself. Or you scrape yourself together using spit and sunshine and you go to school, and work towards gaining qualities that make you employable. The jobs DON'T COME TO YOU. You go to the job.

I've moved 2 x in the last 6 years, and they were major moves.

 

[PoliticalChic]

What did we decide your JOB was? Let's establish that first.

Take it to the flame zone if you feel the need, but all you're trying to do is obfuscate and derail the thread. You should participate in the actual topic or find somewhere else to troll.

All of my points have gone unrefuted.

Whether she has a job is directly related to her claim that people without jobs are LAZY.

So go fuck yourself, and we'll both feel better.

Temper, temper....

...you should be used to being put in your place.

 

[Againsheila]

Yet the help wanted section of the newspapers are still full.

Have you ever check out those ads?

We have lost touch of the concept that our grandparents and pioneers down through the millennia understood...if you have to, you move to make your fortune. If you have no future in the place where you are, then you look further afield and you move somewhere where you CAN support yourself. Or you scrape yourself together using spit and sunshine and you go to school, and work towards gaining qualities that make you employable. The jobs DON'T COME TO YOU. You go to the job.

I've moved 2 x in the last 6 years, and they were major moves.

It doesn't matter where you move in the USA, our jobs have been shipped overseas and we've brought in immigrants to take what jobs there are left. No other country will allow unskilled workers into their country to compete with their own citizens. I know people with college educations that can't get jobs. My niece has a degree in environmental studies and is working at Bartells. She doesn't even make enough to pay off her student loans. Thankfully Bartells is sending her to school to become a pharmacologist with a guaranteed job when she finishes. Not everyone is that lucky. We are in a 2nd world wide depression and no one seems to want to admit it.

Go to your local food bank and volunteer, or go work in a soup kitchen. You will be surprised the kind of people who are coming in for help.

BTW, the pioneers could hunt and forage for food. We can't do that today. You can't even go fishing without a license these days, which gives lie to the statement about teaching a man to fish instead of giving him a fish.

 

[Agit8r]

Amazing again how misinformed the dupes are. Those on welfare DO have to work for all their benefits, DO have to apply for jobs, ARE screened for drugs, and HATE it.. The problem is your a-hole Pubs who started the Great World Recession, now obstruct the recovery, and fill your "minds" with such drivel and hate.

You really know nothing, huh?

How do you find your way back to the refrigerator-box you call home?


"Determined to destroy Bill Clinton’s signature achievement, President Obama’s administration has opened a loophole in the 1996 welfare reform legislation big enough to make the law ineffective. Its work requirement — the central feature of the legislation — has been diluted beyond recognition by the bureaucrats at the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).

On Thursday of last week, HHS issued regulations that modified — gutted — the work requirement. Its new regulations allow the states to substitute education programs for work to get welfare benefits."

Read more: Obama kills welfare reform - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com
Follow us: [MENTION=27326]The[/MENTION]hill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

Dick Morris is an opportunist and a hack

FactCheck.org : Does Obama?s Plan ?Gut Welfare Reform??

 

[koshergrl]

Obama did kill welfare reform...whereupon we saw an immediate increase in welfare/foodstamp cases, and higher unemployment.

Go figure.

 

[PoliticalChic]

As long as I don't have a bank account, find a job, or get married, I qualify for aid
And did you notice the list of things you CANT have?

What are you talking about? Those are not requirements. Most (adult) food stamp recipients work, but do not make enough to feed their families, including many single income intact families. People who are on Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (cash welfare) have to seek work after being on the program for a certain amount of time (as per 1996 welfare reform). The vast majority of poor people work. Not all of them receive benefits. They do however exist.

You are truly clueless.

I heard on the news that 39 states don't check eligibility for food stampsl

Then, there's this:

" In fact, since
President Obama took office, federal welfare
spending has increased by 41 percent, more
than $193 billion per year. Despite this government largess, more than 46 million Americans continue to live in poverty. Despite nearly $15
trillion in total welfare spending since Lyndon
Johnson declared war on poverty in 1964, the
poverty rate is perilously close to where we began more than 40 years ago.

….the dramatically larger increase also suggests that part
of the program’s growth is due to conscious
policy choices by this administration to ease
eligibility rules and expand caseloads….income limits for eligibility have
risen twice as fast as inflation since 2007
and are now roughly 10 percent higher than
they were when Obama took office."Casey Mulligan, “The Sharp Increase in
the Food Stamps Program,” Economix,
Casey B. Mulligan: The Sharp Increase in the Food Stamps Program - NYTimes.com
Study: More Than Half a Trillion Dollars Spent on Welfare But Poverty Levels Unaffected | CNS News
Scribd


You would be better advised to stick to things you know about....

....if there are any.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Ever notice that PC complains incessantly about the poor and the welfare state that assists them,

but NEVER offers a better way to do things?

I bet she's also against abortion and Planned Parenthood funding, but at the same time doesn't want her taxes to go to welfare for women who cannot support their children otherwise. These far righties are so out of touch with reality.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Obama did kill welfare reform...whereupon we saw an immediate increase in welfare/foodstamp cases, and higher unemployment.

Go figure.

That never happened. Stop lying.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Have you ever check out those ads?

We have lost touch of the concept that our grandparents and pioneers down through the millennia understood...if you have to, you move to make your fortune. If you have no future in the place where you are, then you look further afield and you move somewhere where you CAN support yourself. Or you scrape yourself together using spit and sunshine and you go to school, and work towards gaining qualities that make you employable. The jobs DON'T COME TO YOU. You go to the job.

I've moved 2 x in the last 6 years, and they were major moves.

It doesn't matter where you move in the USA, our jobs have been shipped overseas and we've brought in immigrants to take what jobs there are left. No other country will allow unskilled workers into their country to compete with their own citizens. I know people with college educations that can't get jobs. My niece has a degree in environmental studies and is working at Bartells. She doesn't even make enough to pay off her student loans. Thankfully Bartells is sending her to school to become a pharmacologist with a guaranteed job when she finishes. Not everyone is that lucky. We are in a 2nd world wide depression and no one seems to want to admit it.

Go to your local food bank and volunteer, or go work in a soup kitchen. You will be surprised the kind of people who are coming in for help.

BTW, the pioneers could hunt and forage for food. We can't do that today. You can't even go fishing without a license these days, which gives lie to the statement about teaching a man to fish instead of giving him a fish.

" I know people with college educations that can't get jobs. My niece has a degree in environmental studies and is working at Bartells."

Because she didn't major in a real subject.

There's a lot of that going around.


"More than 900 four-year colleges and universities allow students to develop their own programs of study with an adviser's help, up 5.1% from five years ago, based on data from the College Board, a New York-based nonprofit organization of colleges and universities.

A sampling of some students' D-I-Y majors
• Ethnobotany
• Magic
• Ethology (animal psychology and behavior)
• Music promotion
• Anthropology of mental health and illness
• Peace and conflict resolution
• Historical clothing
• Sociology of fashion
• Environmental racism
• Complex organizations and informational systems
• Neuroscience, human behavior and society
• Asian-American studies
• Bioethics in crosscultural perspectives"
Can't Pick a College Major? Create One - WSJ.com

 

[Agit8r]

As long as I don't have a bank account, find a job, or get married, I qualify for aid
And did you notice the list of things you CANT have?

What are you talking about? Those are not requirements. Most (adult) food stamp recipients work, but do not make enough to feed their families, including many single income intact families. People who are on Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (cash welfare) have to seek work after being on the program for a certain amount of time (as per 1996 welfare reform). The vast majority of poor people work. Not all of them receive benefits. They do however exist.

You are truly clueless.

I heard on the news that 39 states don't check eligibility for food stampsl

Then, there's this:

" In fact, since
President Obama took office, federal welfare
spending has increased by 41 percent, more
than $193 billion per year. Despite this government largess, more than 46 million Americans continue to live in poverty. Despite nearly $15
trillion in total welfare spending since Lyndon
Johnson declared war on poverty in 1964, the
poverty rate is perilously close to where we began more than 40 years ago.

….the dramatically larger increase also suggests that part
of the program’s growth is due to conscious
policy choices by this administration to ease
eligibility rules and expand caseloads….income limits for eligibility have
risen twice as fast as inflation since 2007
and are now roughly 10 percent higher than
they were when Obama took office."Casey Mulligan, “The Sharp Increase in
the Food Stamps Program,” Economix,
Casey B. Mulligan: The Sharp Increase in the Food Stamps Program - NYTimes.com
Study: More Than Half a Trillion Dollars Spent on Welfare But Poverty Levels Unaffected | CNS News
Scribd


You would be better advised to stick to things you know about....

....if there are any.

No. Clueless people are those who only accept information from sources that are biased toward their existing prejudices. When you say you heard something "on the news" I can guess what that means

 

[NYcarbineer]

I have a job:
I sit around being fantastic all day.

No, you're a stay at home mom who lives off someone else's WORK. Correct?

You have an amazing obsession with my personal information....

....fully understandable.


But....try to see other people, I only date within my own species.

Your refusal to claim you have a job, which I will attribute to your honesty, good for you,

is, however, reasonable proof that you don't have a job.

Therefore, in all likelihood, you are living off someone else's work despite being, presumably,

capable of earning your own keep.

That by your own definition makes you lazy. And since we know you're an immigrant, that would make you a lazy foreigner who came to America so you wouldn't have to work.

lol, this is too easy.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Creepy as it is that you feel compelled to muse on her family life, I think if her family is self sufficient, that doesn't make her one of the lazy poor.

You, on the other hand....

If she doesn't work because someone else is paying for her food shelter clothing etc. etc. etc.,

that makes her lazy by her own definition. And anyone else in that category.

Must you include me in your fantasies????


Well, if this helps, I once caught a Leprechaun, and he obliged me with his pot of gold.

I invested in Apple, and now live in a castle.

Don't plan on visiting....the moat has sharks.


BTW....idiot, the 'lazy' appellation was applied to welfare recipients by Ms. Parker, not to independently wealthy, or the gainfully employed.

It appears that your ability to comprehend is only surpassed by your hat size.

Are you saying you're employed? State it as a fact.

 

[Agit8r]

Obama did kill welfare reform...whereupon we saw an immediate increase in welfare/foodstamp cases, and higher unemployment.

Go figure.

That never happened. Stop lying.

It did in the fascist fantasy world where legitimately poor people do not exist

 

[PoliticalChic]

Amazing again how misinformed the dupes are. Those on welfare DO have to work for all their benefits, DO have to apply for jobs, ARE screened for drugs, and HATE it.. The problem is your a-hole Pubs who started the Great World Recession, now obstruct the recovery, and fill your "minds" with such drivel and hate.

You really know nothing, huh?

How do you find your way back to the refrigerator-box you call home?


"Determined to destroy Bill Clinton’s signature achievement, President Obama’s administration has opened a loophole in the 1996 welfare reform legislation big enough to make the law ineffective. Its work requirement — the central feature of the legislation — has been diluted beyond recognition by the bureaucrats at the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).

On Thursday of last week, HHS issued regulations that modified — gutted — the work requirement. Its new regulations allow the states to substitute education programs for work to get welfare benefits."

Read more: Obama kills welfare reform - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com
Follow us: [MENTION=27326]The[/MENTION]hill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

Dick Morris is an opportunist and a hack

FactCheck.org : Does Obama?s Plan ?Gut Welfare Reform??

Hack?

That would describe not only you.....but your Liberal 'source':

Fact-Check: a political fact-checking website created by the St. Petersburg Times, which endorsed Obama in '08.
'In 2003, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette described the St. Petersburg Times as a "usually liberal" newspaper.'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_Bay_Times


Morris is 100% correct.

The Heritage Foundation explains that:
“Section 415(a)(2)(B) of the welfare reform act, now codified at 42 U.S.C. § 615(a)(2)(B), expressly states that ‘a waiver granted under section 1315 of this title [the one that HHS now claims it is acting under] or otherwise which relates to the provision of assistance under a State program funded under this part (as in effect on Sept. 30, 1996) shall not affect the applicability of section 607 of this title [which applies the work requirements] to the State.’ In short, whatever else might be said of the scope of the waiver authority, the Secretary has no lawful authority to waive the work requirements of section 607, which is what HHS is contemplating in its Memorandum.”

 

[NYcarbineer]

Take it to the flame zone if you feel the need, but all you're trying to do is obfuscate and derail the thread. You should participate in the actual topic or find somewhere else to troll.

All of my points have gone unrefuted.

Whether she has a job is directly related to her claim that people without jobs are LAZY.

So go fuck yourself, and we'll both feel better.

What points, exactly?

I'm sorry, I seem to have missed all of your imaginary points. Can you point them out? P.S....reference to PC's family or attempts to get personal information are not "points".

She's repeatedly accused me of not having a job. Why don't you rag on her wrinkly ass?

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

As long as I don't have a bank account, find a job, or get married, I qualify for aid
And did you notice the list of things you CANT have?

What are you talking about? Those are not requirements. Most (adult) food stamp recipients work, but do not make enough to feed their families, including many single income intact families. People who are on Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (cash welfare) have to seek work after being on the program for a certain amount of time (as per 1996 welfare reform). The vast majority of poor people work. Not all of them receive benefits. They do however exist.

You are truly clueless.

I heard on the news that 39 states don't check eligibility for food stampsl

Do you bother to look things like this up or just rely on Fox Noise? The reference is to vehicles owned by those who apply. [shaking head]


"Households may have $2,000 in countable resources, such as a bank account, or $3250 in countable resources if at least one person is age 60 or older, or is disabled. However, certain resources are NOT counted, such as a home and lot, the resources of people who receive Supplemental Security Income (SSI), the resources of people who receive Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF, formerly AFDC), and most retirement (pension) plans.

The procedures for handling vehicles are determined at the state level. States have the option of substituting the vehicle rules used in their TANF assistance programs for SNAP vehicle rules when it results in a lower attribution of household assets. A number of States exclude the entire value of the household’s primary vehicle as an asset. In States that count the value of vehicles, the fair market value of each licensed vehicle that is not excluded is evaluated. Currently 39 States exclude the value of all vehicles entirely. 11 States totally exclude the value of at least one vehicle per household. The 3 remaining states exempt an amount higher than the SNAP’s standard auto exemption (currently set at $4,650) from the fair market value to determine the countable resource value of a vehicle. For more information concerning State specific vehicle policy, check with the State agency that administers the SNAP program. ""

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/applicant_recipients/eligibility.htm