The left believes in government. The right believes in freedom.

[hazlnut]

The FREEDOM to worship Christ and only Christ.

 

[Bfgrn]

You people don't believe in the right to vote.

Your traitors

Requiring a photo ID to vote, which I might note, is required to get welfare, go to school, board an airplane, book a hotel, buy alcohol/cigarettes, or do many other ordinary things, is hardly "taking away the right to vote".

With regards to the founders believing in government(in reality they believed in A GOVERNMENT, but not a massive, omniprescent one), I'd like to leave you with a few quotes:
"Government can be a handy servant and a dangerous master" - George Washington
"When people fear the government, there is tyranny. When government fears the people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

These don't strike me as today's big-government liberal type quotes.

Jefferson never said that.

When government fears the people, there is liberty...(Quotation) « Thomas Jefferson's Monticello

 

[Hoosier4Liberty]

You people don't believe in the right to vote.

Your traitors

Requiring a photo ID to vote, which I might note, is required to get welfare, go to school, board an airplane, book a hotel, buy alcohol/cigarettes, or do many other ordinary things, is hardly "taking away the right to vote".

With regards to the founders believing in government(in reality they believed in A GOVERNMENT, but not a massive, omniprescent one), I'd like to leave you with a few quotes:
"Government can be a handy servant and a dangerous master" - George Washington
"When people fear the government, there is tyranny. When government fears the people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

These don't strike me as today's big-government liberal type quotes.

Jefferson never said that.

When government fears the people, there is liberty...(Quotation) « Thomas Jefferson's Monticello

Yes he did. Your own link gives the same quote I had but with the two clauses reversed. That's all.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The right recognizes that there are natural differences in ability and effort and that to truly promote human happiness and dignity, we should give all the right to pursue their own course. We believe in free will, a free market, and a free people. So the next time you hear a leftist babbling about income inequality, remember that what those leftists really want to do is to take away your freedom.

But not free vaginas and uteruses. Those you want highly regulated.

Come to think of it, you want to regulate penises and anuses too.

The right seems obsessed with regulating the most private intimate parts.

They really don't believe in privacy or freedom at all.

Ahh, the liberal battle cry: "Fuck like a rabid mink, but don't you DARE buy a Big Gulp, incandescent light bulb, or efficiently-flushing toilet! THAT shit's immoral!"

I would like very much for you to show me any proposed conservative legislation for "regulating intimate parts". Put up or shut the fuck up.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Science has
1. Doubled life span
2. wiped out most of the deadly viruses and diseases
3. Gave us light and electricy...Warmth for us not to freeze.
4. The computer you're typing on.
5. The car you're driving down the street.
6. A understanding of our universe

Yeah let's defund science and let people keep dying of cancer. Maybe you do stand for freedom in some areas, but defunding science is just stupid.

Lessee:

1) Medical and pharmaceutical research is mostly funded by the private sector
2) Ditto
3) Which government agency funded Thomas Edison, again?
4) Ditto Charles Babbage
5) Yes, tell us how there would be no cars without the government inventing them
6) Funded for centuries by the Catholic Church. Whoops.

There's a big difference between "science should be funded" and "the government is the source of all that's good". Learn it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Your belief that private firms wouldn't provide weather information if government wasn't providing it for free is charming.

They sure as hell couldn't maintain the infrastructure of the nws and the billion dollar satellites. It is worth a few dollars in taxes take allow everyone to have this warning.

Weather satellites don't cost a billion dollars. If private firms can put satellites in orbit to transmit television signals, they can put a satellite in orbit to gather weather information. I think plenty of farmers, airlines and other businesses would be more than willing to pay for weather information. Furthermore, private firms are in the process of developing launch vehicles that can put a payload in orbit for 1/10th of the cost of most government developed rockets.

Weatherwise Magazine -- January-February 2013

 

[Cecilie1200]

Your belief that private firms wouldn't provide weather information if government wasn't providing it for free is charming.

They sure as hell couldn't maintain the infrastructure of the nws and the billion dollar satellites. It is worth a few dollars in taxes take allow everyone to have this warning.

So, you're saying that there are no corporate satellite in space?

You can't be serious.

How The Private Sector Revolutionized The Space Race In A Few Short Years - Business Insider

 

[Bfgrn]

Requiring a photo ID to vote, which I might note, is required to get welfare, go to school, board an airplane, book a hotel, buy alcohol/cigarettes, or do many other ordinary things, is hardly "taking away the right to vote".

With regards to the founders believing in government(in reality they believed in A GOVERNMENT, but not a massive, omniprescent one), I'd like to leave you with a few quotes:
"Government can be a handy servant and a dangerous master" - George Washington
"When people fear the government, there is tyranny. When government fears the people, there is liberty" - Thomas Jefferson

These don't strike me as today's big-government liberal type quotes.

Jefferson never said that.

When government fears the people, there is liberty...(Quotation) « Thomas Jefferson's Monticello

Yes he did. Your own link gives the same quote I had but with the two clauses reversed. That's all.

Reading without reflecting is like eating without digesting.
Edmund Burke

Sources consulted: Searching on the phrase "fear the people," "government fear us," "fear the government," "tyranny has found victory," and "government is our servant"

Papers of Thomas Jefferson Digital Edition
Thomas Jefferson: Papers and Thomas Jefferson: Biographies collections in Hathi Trust Digital Library
Thomas Jefferson Retirement Papers

Earliest known appearance in print: 1914[1] [2]

Earliest known appearance in print, attributed to Thomas Jefferson: 1994[3]

Other attributions: Samuel Adams, Thomas Paine

Status: We have not found any evidence that Thomas Jefferson said or wrote, "When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny," or any of its listed variations.

 

[Hoosier4Liberty]

^Regardless, TJ definitely believed in limited government. Under the Founding Fathers, gov't was 2.5% of GDP. Now, it's about 40%.

 

[Bfgrn]

^Regardless, TJ definitely believed in limited government. Under the Founding Fathers, gov't was 2.5% of GDP. Now, it's about 40%.

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government."
Thomas Jefferson to the Republican Citizens of Washington County, Maryland" (March 31, 1809).

The selfish spirit of commerce knows no country, and feels no passion or principle but that of gain.
Thomas Jefferson - Letter to Larkin Smith (1809).

"Truth will do well enough if left to shift for herself. She seldom has received much aid from the power of great men to whom she is rarely known & seldom welcome. She has no need of force to procure entrance into the minds of men. Error indeed has often prevailed by the assistance of power or force. Truth is the proper & sufficient antagonist to error.
Thomas Jefferson - Notes on Religion (October 1776), published in The Writings of Thomas Jefferson : 1816–1826 (1899) edited by Paul Leicester Ford, v. 2, p. 102.

"The equal rights of man, and the happiness of every individual, are now acknowledged to be the only legitimate objects of government. Modern times have the signal advantage, too, of having discovered the only device by which these rights can be secured, to wit: government by the people, acting not in person, but by representatives chosen by themselves, that is to say, by every man of ripe years and sane mind, who contributes either by his purse or person to the support of his country." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823. ME 15:482

"I willingly acquiesce in the institutions of my country, perfect or imperfect, and think it a duty to leave their modifications to those who are to live under them and are to participate of the good or evil they may produce. The present generation has the same right of self-government which the past one has exercised for itself." --Thomas Jefferson to John Hampden Pleasants, 1824. ME 16:29

"What is true of every member of the society, individually, is true of them all collectively; since the rights of the whole can be no more than the sum of the rights of the individuals." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:455, Papers 15:393

"To unequal privileges among members of the same society the spirit of our nation is, with one accord, adverse." --Thomas Jefferson to Hugh White, 1801. ME 10:258

"The most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." --Thomas Jefferson: Note in Destutt de Tracy, "Political Economy," 1816. ME 14:465

 

[candycorn]

The right recognizes that there are natural differences in ability and effort and that to truly promote human happiness and dignity, we should give all the right to pursue their own course. We believe in free will, a free market, and a free people. So the next time you hear a leftist babbling about income inequality, remember that what those leftists really want to do is to take away your freedom.

But not free vaginas and uteruses. Those you want highly regulated.

Come to think of it, you want to regulate penises and anuses too.

The right seems obsessed with regulating the most private intimate parts.

They really don't believe in privacy or freedom at all.

They're for small government...small enough to fit in your bedroom or in your doctor's office.

 

[RandomVariable]

Government makes America America and different from that spot of sand out in the middle of the ocean. Freedom is that spot of sand in the middle of nowhere, the stuff Animal Farm and Lord of the Flies are made from. Government gives us some freedom whereas freedom ends up giving us no freedom.

 

[S.J.]

The right recognizes that there are natural differences in ability and effort and that to truly promote human happiness and dignity, we should give all the right to pursue their own course. We believe in free will, a free market, and a free people. So the next time you hear a leftist babbling about income inequality, remember that what those leftists really want to do is to take away your freedom.

But not free vaginas and uteruses. Those you want highly regulated.

Come to think of it, you want to regulate penises and anuses too.

The right seems obsessed with regulating the most private intimate parts.

They really don't believe in privacy or freedom at all.

They're for small government...small enough to fit in your bedroom or in your doctor's office.

It takes nerve to say something like that after supporting Obamacare.

 

[Hoosier4Liberty]

^Regardless, TJ definitely believed in limited government. Under the Founding Fathers, gov't was 2.5% of GDP. Now, it's about 40%.

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government."
Thomas Jefferson to the Republican Citizens of Washington County, Maryland" (March 31, 1809).

The selfish spirit of commerce knows no country, and feels no passion or principle but that of gain.
Thomas Jefferson - Letter to Larkin Smith (1809).

"Truth will do well enough if left to shift for herself. She seldom has received much aid from the power of great men to whom she is rarely known & seldom welcome. She has no need of force to procure entrance into the minds of men. Error indeed has often prevailed by the assistance of power or force. Truth is the proper & sufficient antagonist to error.
Thomas Jefferson - Notes on Religion (October 1776), published in The Writings of Thomas Jefferson : 1816–1826 (1899) edited by Paul Leicester Ford, v. 2, p. 102.

"The equal rights of man, and the happiness of every individual, are now acknowledged to be the only legitimate objects of government. Modern times have the signal advantage, too, of having discovered the only device by which these rights can be secured, to wit: government by the people, acting not in person, but by representatives chosen by themselves, that is to say, by every man of ripe years and sane mind, who contributes either by his purse or person to the support of his country." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823. ME 15:482

"I willingly acquiesce in the institutions of my country, perfect or imperfect, and think it a duty to leave their modifications to those who are to live under them and are to participate of the good or evil they may produce. The present generation has the same right of self-government which the past one has exercised for itself." --Thomas Jefferson to John Hampden Pleasants, 1824. ME 16:29

"What is true of every member of the society, individually, is true of them all collectively; since the rights of the whole can be no more than the sum of the rights of the individuals." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:455, Papers 15:393

"To unequal privileges among members of the same society the spirit of our nation is, with one accord, adverse." --Thomas Jefferson to Hugh White, 1801. ME 10:258

"The most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." --Thomas Jefferson: Note in Destutt de Tracy, "Political Economy," 1816. ME 14:465

What does any of that have to do with supporting Obama's big-government agenda? Jefferson sounds like a classical liberal, which is what I am. He is not, however, a progressive, a movement that tarnished the liberal name starting in the early 1900's.

Liberals have an obsession with their genitals, as the many posts on here prove. Simply believing that human life is sacred apparently means that I want to "get into your bedroom". Restricting abortion =/= "getting into the bedroom". Last time I checked, birth control is 100% legal and available at every drug store in America. And no one is looking in on your bedroom. Killing another live being through abortion is a different matter because at that point, there's more than 1 life in the equation, thus privacy rights can be subjugated to a higher rate, the right to life(remember, life, liberty, property in that order).

 

[American4Americ]

Here's the simple difference between the left and the right on economic issues. They trust bigger government. We trust you. Liberals want to raise the minimum wage because they don't think you have the right to form your own contract with your employer. They passed social security/Medicare/Obamacare because they think that the government is better at spending your money than you are. Now, 1/3 to 1/2 of people's paychecks are going to Uncle Sam to pay for those who don't earn a paycheck. The left's core principles are rooted in the fact that they do not believe that people have a right to pursue their own happiness and follow their own hopes and dreams.

The right recognizes that there are natural differences in ability and effort and that to truly promote human happiness and dignity, we should give all the right to pursue their own course. We believe in free will, a free market, and a free people. So the next time you hear a leftist babbling about income inequality, remember that what those leftists really want to do is to take away your freedom.

The left is kind of like the framers in that regard, they despise the populace, and the common man. They seek to make a centralized state to limit his voice, and stop them from interfering with the representative process.

 

[Bfgrn]

^Regardless, TJ definitely believed in limited government. Under the Founding Fathers, gov't was 2.5% of GDP. Now, it's about 40%.

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government."
Thomas Jefferson to the Republican Citizens of Washington County, Maryland" (March 31, 1809).

The selfish spirit of commerce knows no country, and feels no passion or principle but that of gain.
Thomas Jefferson - Letter to Larkin Smith (1809).

"Truth will do well enough if left to shift for herself. She seldom has received much aid from the power of great men to whom she is rarely known & seldom welcome. She has no need of force to procure entrance into the minds of men. Error indeed has often prevailed by the assistance of power or force. Truth is the proper & sufficient antagonist to error.
Thomas Jefferson - Notes on Religion (October 1776), published in The Writings of Thomas Jefferson : 1816–1826 (1899) edited by Paul Leicester Ford, v. 2, p. 102.

"The equal rights of man, and the happiness of every individual, are now acknowledged to be the only legitimate objects of government. Modern times have the signal advantage, too, of having discovered the only device by which these rights can be secured, to wit: government by the people, acting not in person, but by representatives chosen by themselves, that is to say, by every man of ripe years and sane mind, who contributes either by his purse or person to the support of his country." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823. ME 15:482

"I willingly acquiesce in the institutions of my country, perfect or imperfect, and think it a duty to leave their modifications to those who are to live under them and are to participate of the good or evil they may produce. The present generation has the same right of self-government which the past one has exercised for itself." --Thomas Jefferson to John Hampden Pleasants, 1824. ME 16:29

"What is true of every member of the society, individually, is true of them all collectively; since the rights of the whole can be no more than the sum of the rights of the individuals." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:455, Papers 15:393

"To unequal privileges among members of the same society the spirit of our nation is, with one accord, adverse." --Thomas Jefferson to Hugh White, 1801. ME 10:258

"The most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." --Thomas Jefferson: Note in Destutt de Tracy, "Political Economy," 1816. ME 14:465

What does any of that have to do with supporting Obama's big-government agenda? Jefferson sounds like a classical liberal, which is what I am. He is not, however, a progressive, a movement that tarnished the liberal name starting in the early 1900's.

Liberals have an obsession with their genitals, as the many posts on here prove. Simply believing that human life is sacred apparently means that I want to "get into your bedroom". Restricting abortion =/= "getting into the bedroom". Last time I checked, birth control is 100% legal and available at every drug store in America. And no one is looking in on your bedroom. Killing another live being through abortion is a different matter because at that point, there's more than 1 life in the equation, thus privacy rights can be subjugated to a higher rate, the right to life(remember, life, liberty, property in that order).

Bullshit. Conservatives believe women should be subservient to men...vessels. And calling it 'murder' doesn't make it so. The law of the land is perfectly CLEAR. Abortion is 100% legal. If you want to dictate what your family members do, go for it Adolf. But keep your fucking nose out of other people's business.

You are NO fucking liberal in any way shape or form. You are a right wing regressive turd.

Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.
James M. Buchanan

 

[Bfgrn]

Here's the simple difference between the left and the right on economic issues. They trust bigger government. We trust you. Liberals want to raise the minimum wage because they don't think you have the right to form your own contract with your employer. They passed social security/Medicare/Obamacare because they think that the government is better at spending your money than you are. Now, 1/3 to 1/2 of people's paychecks are going to Uncle Sam to pay for those who don't earn a paycheck. The left's core principles are rooted in the fact that they do not believe that people have a right to pursue their own happiness and follow their own hopes and dreams.

The right recognizes that there are natural differences in ability and effort and that to truly promote human happiness and dignity, we should give all the right to pursue their own course. We believe in free will, a free market, and a free people. So the next time you hear a leftist babbling about income inequality, remember that what those leftists really want to do is to take away your freedom.

The left is kind of like the framers in that regard, they despise the populace, and the common man. They seek to make a centralized state to limit his voice, and stop them from interfering with the representative process.

Liberals despise the common man? You mean the common man who wants to join a union, wants a fair wage and human rights and decency? You right wing scum LOATHE the common man.

 

[Hoosier4Liberty]

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government."
Thomas Jefferson to the Republican Citizens of Washington County, Maryland" (March 31, 1809).

The selfish spirit of commerce knows no country, and feels no passion or principle but that of gain.
Thomas Jefferson - Letter to Larkin Smith (1809).

"Truth will do well enough if left to shift for herself. She seldom has received much aid from the power of great men to whom she is rarely known & seldom welcome. She has no need of force to procure entrance into the minds of men. Error indeed has often prevailed by the assistance of power or force. Truth is the proper & sufficient antagonist to error.
Thomas Jefferson - Notes on Religion (October 1776), published in The Writings of Thomas Jefferson : 1816–1826 (1899) edited by Paul Leicester Ford, v. 2, p. 102.

"The equal rights of man, and the happiness of every individual, are now acknowledged to be the only legitimate objects of government. Modern times have the signal advantage, too, of having discovered the only device by which these rights can be secured, to wit: government by the people, acting not in person, but by representatives chosen by themselves, that is to say, by every man of ripe years and sane mind, who contributes either by his purse or person to the support of his country." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823. ME 15:482

"I willingly acquiesce in the institutions of my country, perfect or imperfect, and think it a duty to leave their modifications to those who are to live under them and are to participate of the good or evil they may produce. The present generation has the same right of self-government which the past one has exercised for itself." --Thomas Jefferson to John Hampden Pleasants, 1824. ME 16:29

"What is true of every member of the society, individually, is true of them all collectively; since the rights of the whole can be no more than the sum of the rights of the individuals." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:455, Papers 15:393

"To unequal privileges among members of the same society the spirit of our nation is, with one accord, adverse." --Thomas Jefferson to Hugh White, 1801. ME 10:258

"The most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." --Thomas Jefferson: Note in Destutt de Tracy, "Political Economy," 1816. ME 14:465

What does any of that have to do with supporting Obama's big-government agenda? Jefferson sounds like a classical liberal, which is what I am. He is not, however, a progressive, a movement that tarnished the liberal name starting in the early 1900's.

Liberals have an obsession with their genitals, as the many posts on here prove. Simply believing that human life is sacred apparently means that I want to "get into your bedroom". Restricting abortion =/= "getting into the bedroom". Last time I checked, birth control is 100% legal and available at every drug store in America. And no one is looking in on your bedroom. Killing another live being through abortion is a different matter because at that point, there's more than 1 life in the equation, thus privacy rights can be subjugated to a higher rate, the right to life(remember, life, liberty, property in that order).

Bullshit. Conservatives believe women should be subservient to men...vessels. And calling it 'murder' doesn't make it so. The law of the land is perfectly CLEAR. Abortion is 100% legal. If you want to dictate what your family members do, go for it Adolf. But keep your fucking nose out of other people's business.

You are NO fucking liberal in any way shape or form. You are a right wing regressive turd.

Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.
James M. Buchanan

Just because something is the law doesn't mean it is right. The Supreme Court ruled in Dred Scott that blacks weren't human. Would you have said then that "The law of the land is perfectly CLEAR"? Funny you mention Adolf. He considered Jews nonhuman, and everything that he did was in concordance with German law at the time.

A classical liberal = libertarian if you don't realize it. I believe all humans are created equal, but outcomes are unequal because efforts and talents are unequal. Classical liberals believe that the government should impose as few restrictions on personal liberty as possible, which I agree with. This is why I think marijuana should be legal and that marriage shouldn't be a concern of the state, straight or gay.

Here's what you don't seem to understand. A fetus isn't some "unliving blob of tissue". It is a human being with natural rights!


https://www.google.com/search?q=abo...pg;http%3A%2F%2Fanti-abortion.info%2F;396;288

These should change your mind if you believe otherwise.

 

[Bfgrn]

What does any of that have to do with supporting Obama's big-government agenda? Jefferson sounds like a classical liberal, which is what I am. He is not, however, a progressive, a movement that tarnished the liberal name starting in the early 1900's.

Liberals have an obsession with their genitals, as the many posts on here prove. Simply believing that human life is sacred apparently means that I want to "get into your bedroom". Restricting abortion =/= "getting into the bedroom". Last time I checked, birth control is 100% legal and available at every drug store in America. And no one is looking in on your bedroom. Killing another live being through abortion is a different matter because at that point, there's more than 1 life in the equation, thus privacy rights can be subjugated to a higher rate, the right to life(remember, life, liberty, property in that order).

Bullshit. Conservatives believe women should be subservient to men...vessels. And calling it 'murder' doesn't make it so. The law of the land is perfectly CLEAR. Abortion is 100% legal. If you want to dictate what your family members do, go for it Adolf. But keep your fucking nose out of other people's business.

You are NO fucking liberal in any way shape or form. You are a right wing regressive turd.

Classical liberals assume a natural equality of humans; conservatives assume a natural hierarchy.
James M. Buchanan

Just because something is the law doesn't mean it is right. The Supreme Court ruled in Dred Scott that blacks weren't human. Would you have said then that "The law of the land is perfectly CLEAR"? Funny you mention Adolf. He considered Jews nonhuman, and everything that he did was in concordance with German law at the time.

A classical liberal = libertarian if you don't realize it. I believe all humans are created equal, but outcomes are unequal because efforts and talents are unequal. Classical liberals believe that the government should impose as few restrictions on personal liberty as possible, which I agree with. This is why I think marijuana should be legal and that marriage shouldn't be a concern of the state, straight or gay.

Here's what you don't seem to understand. A fetus isn't some "unliving blob of tissue". It is a human being with natural rights!


https://www.google.com/search?q=abo...pg;http%3A%2F%2Fanti-abortion.info%2F;396;288

These should change your mind if you believe otherwise.

You are NOT a liberal. You are the one on the far right.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

But not free vaginas and uteruses. Those you want highly regulated.

Come to think of it, you want to regulate penises and anuses too.

The right seems obsessed with regulating the most private intimate parts.

They really don't believe in privacy or freedom at all.

They're for small government...small enough to fit in your bedroom or in your doctor's office.

It takes nerve to say something like that after supporting Obamacare.

It takes nerve to say something like that and exhibit your ignorance concerning the ACA, where the Act doesn’t ‘force’ anyone to do anything.

In fact, it’s conservatives who seek to empower the state and make government larger to force women to have children they do not want, deny same-sex couples their equal protection rights, deny minorities their right to vote, deny transgender persons their right to free expression, and deny gay Americans their individual liberty.

Conservatives are, for the most part, authoritarian, hostile to diversity and dissent – and they seek to make government larger and more powerful accordingly.