The Liberal Myth that the Rich Pay "Virtually No Taxes"

[Campbell]

So you think the system is "fair" now?
Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

We can fix that

Start paying those who do not meet the tax threshold a working wage that does

No we have to get rid of all the shit in the code that allows refundable tax credits and frivolous deductions and all the social engineering crap that's in the tax code like mortgage deductions and charitable deductions credits for buying a stupid hybrid car etc etc
Then we have to tax every dollar earned no matter where it was earned at exactly the same rate just like we tax everything else

99% of the tax code supports deductions for the rich

It should....they wrote it

So let's get rid of them and then tax every dollar the same

Alright.....let's start paying people who come in and mow people's yards at an hourly rate the same as the owner of the home earns.

You still don't understand that not all labor is equal but all dollars are do you?

Go try to figure it out so you don't sound like such a moron

Evidently the homeowner figures his time is worth more than to spend it mowing his lawn. Phuck the arrogant bastard. I'm upper middle class and financially don't have to worry about a thing and I mow my own goddam grass.....always have. I'm 81 so it might not last much longer but so far nobody has to mow my yard.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The flat tax is the very definition of a fair tax

Only if you can't dodge your taxes with the phony funds and foundations the WEALTHY use to avoid income taxes.

"Own nothing. Control everything"
John D Rockefeller

Gary Allen: The Rockefeller File Chapter 1 to 4

The Rockefellers invented a scheme, used by the super rich today, whereby the more money you appear to give away, the richer and more powerful you become. Through the help of captive politicians, guided by some bright boys in the family law offices, legislation was written and passed which would protect the Rockefellers and other elite super-rich from the repressive taxation they have foisted on everyone else.

The key to this system is giving up ownership but retaining control. For example, most people don't believe they really own something unless they retain title to it in their own name. The Rockefellers know this is a big mistake. Often it is better to have your assets owned by a trust or a foundation-which you control-than to have them in your own name.

For example, when Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis ordered Standard Oil broken up back in 1911, sly old John D. simply created some new foundations and gave his stock to them. The net effect was the same as if you took your wallet out of your right-hand pocket and put it in the left. In this case, however, Rockefeller not only managed to avoid income taxes, but also escaped the probate, estate and inheritance taxes which have ravaged the wealth of those not in the know.

So three generations of Rockefellers have been - giving away millions of dollars - giving much of it to themselves. For example, if a Rockefeller gives a million dollars worth of stock in the Titanic Oil Corporation to the Dogood Foundation, which the family controls, he is not really out one million bucks. All he has done is transfer title of the securities to an alter ego. Of course, the foundation may then give away some of the money, or, more likely, donate some of the stock's future earnings to some allegedly worthwhile cause. But, as the few investigations by Congress into this devious field have shown, in the case of the Rockefellers such bequests somehow end up increasing the Rockefeller financial or political power.

If you bothered to read any of my posts which you haven't I said that all deductions, loopholes, etc must be done away with

That means no more dependent deductions, no more mortgage deductions, no tax credits for buying a hybrid, no tuition deductions,no charitable deductions etc

Then tax every dollar from the first dollar of income no matter the source, salary, capital gains, etc at the same rate

It is the very definition of fair

 

[Skull Pilot]

No we have to get rid of all the shit in the code that allows refundable tax credits and frivolous deductions and all the social engineering crap that's in the tax code like mortgage deductions and charitable deductions credits for buying a stupid hybrid car etc etc
Then we have to tax every dollar earned no matter where it was earned at exactly the same rate just like we tax everything else

99% of the tax code supports deductions for the rich

It should....they wrote it

So let's get rid of them and then tax every dollar the same

Alright.....let's start paying people who come in and mow people's yards at an hourly rate the same as the owner of the home earns.

You still don't understand that not all labor is equal but all dollars are do you?

Go try to figure it out so you don't sound like such a moron

Evidently the homeowner figures his time is worth more than to spend it mowing his lawn. Phuck the arrogant bastard. I'm upper middle class and financially don't have to worry about a thing and I mow my own goddam grass.....always have. I'm 81 so it might not last much longer but so far nobody has to mow my yard.

Yeah let's pay some guy who mows lawns the same as the brain surgeon who owns the house

Once again you are demonstrating your envy

 

[edthecynic]

The flat tax is the very definition of a fair tax

Only if you can't dodge your taxes with the phony funds and foundations the WEALTHY use to avoid income taxes.

"Own nothing. Control everything"
John D Rockefeller

Gary Allen: The Rockefeller File Chapter 1 to 4

The Rockefellers invented a scheme, used by the super rich today, whereby the more money you appear to give away, the richer and more powerful you become. Through the help of captive politicians, guided by some bright boys in the family law offices, legislation was written and passed which would protect the Rockefellers and other elite super-rich from the repressive taxation they have foisted on everyone else.

The key to this system is giving up ownership but retaining control. For example, most people don't believe they really own something unless they retain title to it in their own name. The Rockefellers know this is a big mistake. Often it is better to have your assets owned by a trust or a foundation-which you control-than to have them in your own name.

For example, when Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis ordered Standard Oil broken up back in 1911, sly old John D. simply created some new foundations and gave his stock to them. The net effect was the same as if you took your wallet out of your right-hand pocket and put it in the left. In this case, however, Rockefeller not only managed to avoid income taxes, but also escaped the probate, estate and inheritance taxes which have ravaged the wealth of those not in the know.

So three generations of Rockefellers have been - giving away millions of dollars - giving much of it to themselves. For example, if a Rockefeller gives a million dollars worth of stock in the Titanic Oil Corporation to the Dogood Foundation, which the family controls, he is not really out one million bucks. All he has done is transfer title of the securities to an alter ego. Of course, the foundation may then give away some of the money, or, more likely, donate some of the stock's future earnings to some allegedly worthwhile cause. But, as the few investigations by Congress into this devious field have shown, in the case of the Rockefellers such bequests somehow end up increasing the Rockefeller financial or political power.

If you bothered to read any of my posts which you haven't I said that all deductions, loopholes, etc must be done away with

That means no more dependent deductions, no more mortgage deductions, no tax credits for buying a hybrid, no tuition deductions,no charitable deductions etc

Then every dollar from the first dollar of income no matter the source, salary, capital gains, etc at the same rate

It is the very definition of fair

That I can accept, but it will never happen, unfortunately.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The flat tax is the very definition of a fair tax

Only if you can't dodge your taxes with the phony funds and foundations the WEALTHY use to avoid income taxes.

"Own nothing. Control everything"
John D Rockefeller

Gary Allen: The Rockefeller File Chapter 1 to 4

The Rockefellers invented a scheme, used by the super rich today, whereby the more money you appear to give away, the richer and more powerful you become. Through the help of captive politicians, guided by some bright boys in the family law offices, legislation was written and passed which would protect the Rockefellers and other elite super-rich from the repressive taxation they have foisted on everyone else.

The key to this system is giving up ownership but retaining control. For example, most people don't believe they really own something unless they retain title to it in their own name. The Rockefellers know this is a big mistake. Often it is better to have your assets owned by a trust or a foundation-which you control-than to have them in your own name.

For example, when Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis ordered Standard Oil broken up back in 1911, sly old John D. simply created some new foundations and gave his stock to them. The net effect was the same as if you took your wallet out of your right-hand pocket and put it in the left. In this case, however, Rockefeller not only managed to avoid income taxes, but also escaped the probate, estate and inheritance taxes which have ravaged the wealth of those not in the know.

So three generations of Rockefellers have been - giving away millions of dollars - giving much of it to themselves. For example, if a Rockefeller gives a million dollars worth of stock in the Titanic Oil Corporation to the Dogood Foundation, which the family controls, he is not really out one million bucks. All he has done is transfer title of the securities to an alter ego. Of course, the foundation may then give away some of the money, or, more likely, donate some of the stock's future earnings to some allegedly worthwhile cause. But, as the few investigations by Congress into this devious field have shown, in the case of the Rockefellers such bequests somehow end up increasing the Rockefeller financial or political power.

If you bothered to read any of my posts which you haven't I said that all deductions, loopholes, etc must be done away with

That means no more dependent deductions, no more mortgage deductions, no tax credits for buying a hybrid, no tuition deductions,no charitable deductions etc

Then every dollar from the first dollar of income no matter the source, salary, capital gains, etc at the same rate

It is the very definition of fair

That I can accept, but it will never happen, unfortunately.

OMG we finally agree on something

I don't know how to process that.

 

[Timmy]

Does anyone have a real life example of a rich person paying 40% tax rate ?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Does anyone have a real life example of a rich person paying 40% tax rate ?

They do on AGI over 413201

 

[edthecynic]

The flat tax is the very definition of a fair tax

Only if you can't dodge your taxes with the phony funds and foundations the WEALTHY use to avoid income taxes.

"Own nothing. Control everything"
John D Rockefeller

Gary Allen: The Rockefeller File Chapter 1 to 4

The Rockefellers invented a scheme, used by the super rich today, whereby the more money you appear to give away, the richer and more powerful you become. Through the help of captive politicians, guided by some bright boys in the family law offices, legislation was written and passed which would protect the Rockefellers and other elite super-rich from the repressive taxation they have foisted on everyone else.

The key to this system is giving up ownership but retaining control. For example, most people don't believe they really own something unless they retain title to it in their own name. The Rockefellers know this is a big mistake. Often it is better to have your assets owned by a trust or a foundation-which you control-than to have them in your own name.

For example, when Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis ordered Standard Oil broken up back in 1911, sly old John D. simply created some new foundations and gave his stock to them. The net effect was the same as if you took your wallet out of your right-hand pocket and put it in the left. In this case, however, Rockefeller not only managed to avoid income taxes, but also escaped the probate, estate and inheritance taxes which have ravaged the wealth of those not in the know.

So three generations of Rockefellers have been - giving away millions of dollars - giving much of it to themselves. For example, if a Rockefeller gives a million dollars worth of stock in the Titanic Oil Corporation to the Dogood Foundation, which the family controls, he is not really out one million bucks. All he has done is transfer title of the securities to an alter ego. Of course, the foundation may then give away some of the money, or, more likely, donate some of the stock's future earnings to some allegedly worthwhile cause. But, as the few investigations by Congress into this devious field have shown, in the case of the Rockefellers such bequests somehow end up increasing the Rockefeller financial or political power.

If you bothered to read any of my posts which you haven't I said that all deductions, loopholes, etc must be done away with

That means no more dependent deductions, no more mortgage deductions, no tax credits for buying a hybrid, no tuition deductions,no charitable deductions etc

Then every dollar from the first dollar of income no matter the source, salary, capital gains, etc at the same rate

It is the very definition of fair

That I can accept, but it will never happen, unfortunately.

OMG we finally agree on something

I don't know how to process that.

The year is still young.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The 1% pay an effective tax rate of 17%...lowest in a hundred years

The middle class have to make up the difference

 

[edthecynic]

Does anyone have a real life example of a rich person paying 40% tax rate ?

They do on AGI over 413201

AGI does not touch the truly "rich," who are more appropriately called the "wealthy," but only upper middle class "wage earners."

 

[Skull Pilot]

Does anyone have a real life example of a rich person paying 40% tax rate ?

They do on AGI over 413201

AGI does not touch the truly "rich," who are more appropriately called the "wealthy," but only upper middle class "wage earners."

Well according to Obama and his minions anyone making over 250K a year are "the rich"

 

[rightwinger]

Haven't seen a flat tax proposal that doesn't result in the rich paying significantly less and the working poor paying significantly more

Calling it "fair" does not mean that it is

So you think the system is "fair" now?

Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

So you think the system is "fair" now?
Where almost half the people pay no income tax and the other half pays it all?

We can fix that

Start paying those who do not meet the tax threshold a working wage that does

No we have to get rid of all the shit in the code that allows refundable tax credits and frivolous deductions and all the social engineering crap that's in the tax code like mortgage deductions and charitable deductions credits for buying a stupid hybrid car etc etc
Then we have to tax every dollar earned no matter where it was earned at exactly the same rate just like we tax everything else

99% of the tax code supports deductions for the rich

It should....they wrote it

So let's get rid of them and then tax every dollar the same

So if it is your only dollar it gets taxed ten cents and if it is your hundred millionth dollar it gets taxed ten cents

 

[Dragonlady]

What a stupid op.

Where are those liberals who make the claim that the ultra rich pay virtully nothing in the way of income taxes....where are those people other than in the head of the OP.

Uhhhh, there are two threads going right now in which liberals have claimed that the rich "pay virtually nothing" in taxes and/or that "the rich pay less in taxes than the middle class," etc., etc. Those comments, and many others I've seen/heard in recent years, prompted me to write this thread.

The rich do pay a lower percentage of their income to taxes at all levels of government than do either the middle class or the poor. This statement that the some people pay no taxes is completely false. Everyone pays (or by paying rent contributes to) property taxes which fund cities. Anyone who pays a value added tax/sales tax at the cash register, including illegals, tourists, and business travelers, contributes to state income, any of the working poor who don't pay federal income taxes, continue to pay payroll taxes.

 

[Wilbur Right]

WHAT????? You mean that those ultra wealthy who have had the benefit of legislation, banking, schooling and inheritance arent paying the same percentage as I am?

That is so unfair. Its also unfair that my dear ole departed Dad didnt leave me a few million dollars either.

Ah well, life is just unfair. And who ever told Skull that life has to be "fair" was full of shit.

Hey Moron no one left me anything

My wife and I both come from very meager roots but just because we rose above it and didn't settle like you did you think I should be taxed at a higher rate than the people like you who did settle

Oh no skull. Somebody left you something. It was the inflated opinion of your self. Somebody left you with the opinion that you are an island. Somebody left you with the opinion that the ultra rich are somehow your better.
Some one left you the opinion that your success has no other people who contributed to it.

I could go on but why? Ive got to put a furnace in ONE of my rentals. Its cold outside.

I never said anyone was better than anyone else you see that's your opinion because you feel the need to take from those who have achieved more than you so as to make up for your failures

No bets I see.

But you do think the ultra wealthy is your better. When people like you start worrying that a person making, lets say, 25 million a year needs or deserves a tax cut, either you think they are your better or you are just plain stupid.

Which is it?

So in your mind twisted by jealousy treating every earner and every dollar exactly the same for tax purposes is somehow treating some people better than others?

The flat tax is the very definition of a fair tax

Skull, whoever told you that everything in life was gonna be fair?

Does it say anywhere in the COTUS that all income taxation would be "fair and equal"?

Where do you get the idea that the ultra wealthy play fairly with the rest of us Americans?

Do you write 10 million dollar checks to politicans? Some do. is that "fair" for the rest of us?

Life aint fair dude. It is not gonna be made fair just because you campaign for a reduction in taxes for the ultra wealthy.

I am sure you have a number in mind that would be fair. What is it and how much of a tax reduction for you would that be?

 

[Timmy]

Does anyone have a real life example of a rich person paying 40% tax rate ?

They do on AGI over 413201

Yeah "adjusted " income. That's what I'm trying to get at . The myth is that the "wealthy " are paying 40% of their true income .

If Kardashian made $2 million buy pays 40% on an adjusted income of $500k , she really isn't paying 40% of her income now is she ?

That's why I ask for real examples. Everyone is so worried about the wealthy tax rate , it's all a fraud . They have the $$ to work loopholes and tax shelters. Their actual tax rates are far less .

 

[rdean]

Sorry Mike but....on factual grounds you may win this arguement. You will also win this arguement on moral grounds. But you will never win this arguement under the current conditions of politics/tax code in this country. As long as a large % of the adult population in the US pays 0 or less federal tax, they have no inclination to fight against overtaxing. The politicians have purposely set it up this way so as they have a group to pander to in elections. We both know this, and so does every lefty on this board, and good luck beating your head against the wall trying to get them to admit it; although I do appreciate your using facts in an attempt to try and get them to do so!

As the wise say...........a 10% rise in taxes on 100 dollars is 10 bucks. A 10% rise on zero taxes is still zero. Nothing from nothing means nothing to them financially, so how we gonna win that arguement on any political grounds?

And a 10% raise on a billion dollars is a hundred million. What is it you could do with 1,000,000,000 dollars that you couldn't do with 900,000,000?

That's a false premise

What can you do with 2 pairs of shoes that you can't do with one?

What right does the government have to take a persons property ? One's money is one's property after all

1 pair of shoes compared to two is 50%. Where did I say 50%?

That you don't have the right to tell people how much of their own money they need or don't need was my point

If he's paying 10% and I'm paying 30%, then sure I definitely have the right to complain about what he's paying compared to what I'm paying. That's how democracy works............................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

[Staidhup]

Someone needs to explain to me this concept of fairness in that one pays taxes and others do not, yet the benefits received are greater for those that pay nothing or a small fraction of tax revenues paid. So whose fault is that? I thought this was the premise supporting tax bracketing and AMT? So how is it justified that their is an earned income maximum subject to Social Security taxes? Would in not all fairness there not be such a maximum?
Is not the underlying issue the current tax code and political cronyism employed by legislators, of both left and right, attempting to secure their political future at the expense of those without influence? One can only assume the very premise and political justification employed by the left promoting class warfare, not the fairness doctrine is the real issue which in my opinion is nothing short of a furtive attempt at securing power? In closing one must ask the question is it in fairness that a majority of voters should have the right or power, by vote, to expropriate post tax paid assets and earned income at a greater rate then that of the minority?

 

[Muhammed]

If the rich pay "virtually nothing" in taxes, as liberals continue to claim, how is it that they pay the majority of federal personal income taxes? According to federal income tax data, the top 1% pay about 45% of all federal income taxes. The top 10% pay at least 60% of all federal income taxes. And the top 20% pay over 80% of all federal income taxes.

Top 1% pay nearly half of federal income taxes

Top 10 Percent of Earners Paid 68 Percent of Federal Income Taxes

Top 20% of Earners Pay 84% of Income Tax

STEPHEN MOORE: Do the rich pay their fair share of taxes?

Do the rich pay lower taxes than the middle class?

The Rich Pay More than Their Fair Share of Taxes | Economics21

What's more, the top 1% pay around 24% of all federal taxes (income taxes, corporate taxes, tariffs, etc.). The top 10% pay over 50% of all federal taxes.

1 Percenters Pay 24 Percent and Top 10 Percent Pay 53.3 Percent of All Federal Taxes

And this is on top of the huge amount of county and state taxes that the rich pay, especially rich people who own businesses. I have two relatives who own businesses, and I can't believe how much they get soaked in county and state taxes, especially property taxes.

Liberals who go around peddling the kool-aid myth that "the rich pay virtually no taxes" or that "the average rich person pays less than a middle-income earner" obviously don't know any rich people and/or any business owners and are basing these silly claims on grossly misleading "studies" churned out by liberal think tanks and economists.

That post is full of weasel words.

Are you "rich"?

 

[rdean]

Someone help me out here. Is the OP so stupid they get

The Liberal Myth that the Rich Pay "Virtually No Taxes"

from someone who is only paying a small percentage. A small percentage of a billion dollars is more money than I will ever spend in my lifetime..

 

[hangover]

"Myth" is right wing propaganda to deceive America into believing that the $3 trillion tax cut welfare that millionaires added to the national debt was for our benefit.