The liberal mythology of healthcare being a right

[dblack]

Yup, corporations have the public's best interests in mind.

Brainwashed idiocy.

The idiocy is in accepting the false dilemma that we must subjugate ourselves to either government or corporations - while missing the fact that they are rapidly becoming the same thing.

Only gov't prevents corporations from subjugating us (since the Greatest Generation moved on, and unions have been weakened by Reaganism), and only Dem gov't, obviously.

Ahh... like by forcing us to buy their shitty products? Or by bailing them out when they fuck up? Yeah.. our government is really the only thing keeping corporations from taking advantage of us.

 

[francoHFW]

The idiocy is in accepting the false dilemma that we must subjugate ourselves to either government or corporations - while missing the fact that they are rapidly becoming the same thing.

Only gov't prevents corporations from subjugating us (since the Greatest Generation moved on, and unions have been weakened by Reaganism), and only Dem gov't, obviously.

Ahh... like by forcing us to buy their shitty products? Or by bailing them out when they fuck up? Yeah.. our government is really the only thing keeping corporations from taking advantage of us.

Certainly not Pub gov'ts, obviously.

 

[dblack]

Only gov't prevents corporations from subjugating us (since the Greatest Generation moved on, and unions have been weakened by Reaganism), and only Dem gov't, obviously.

Ahh... like by forcing us to buy their shitty products? Or by bailing them out when they fuck up? Yeah.. our government is really the only thing keeping corporations from taking advantage of us.

Certainly not Pub gov'ts, obviously.

Well, lessee... who passed PPACA? Who's been spending billions bailing out corporations? Are you really claiming Democrats haven't been doing that?

Both mainstream parties are pushing for corporatism as the new form of government for our nation, and it's ugly business. The idea that government is our stalwart defender against corporate domination would be laughable if it weren't so dangerously wrong. Corporations use government to maintain their power. They use regulation to squelch competition and limit the options of their customers. Government is the source corporate power, not its counter.

 

[bripat9643]

Only gov't prevents corporations from subjugating us (since the Greatest Generation moved on, and unions have been weakened by Reaganism), and only Dem gov't, obviously.

How are corporations "subjugating" you? Is someone forcing you to work for one?

 

[bripat9643]

Only gov't prevents corporations from subjugating us (since the Greatest Generation moved on, and unions have been weakened by Reaganism), and only Dem gov't, obviously.

Ahh... like by forcing us to buy their shitty products? Or by bailing them out when they fuck up? Yeah.. our government is really the only thing keeping corporations from taking advantage of us.

Certainly not Pub gov'ts, obviously.

You mean no Democrats voted for TARP?

 

[Toronado3800]

The liberal mythology of healthcare being a right

We like to call ourselves "superpower" and exploit our bullshit all over the world yet we cannot take care of our own. F'n sad.

Health care is already a 'right'...if someone without insurance wraps their car around a tree; firemen will pry them out, paramedics will stabilize them, an ambulance will rush them to a hospital, wheel them into ER where doctors will work to save their life. And WE get to pay for it...

Irony...in Iraq, triage doctors performed life saving procedures on American soldiers AND enemy combatants.

I just thought everyone should reread that excellent point about our already socialized healthcare system.

 

[Dr Grump]

Once a majority accept the notion it makes it much easier to push through their plans for centralizing health care under government control. They can do so without proving why it is necessary, or a even good idea, by simply falling back on the (erroneous) assumption that health care is a right.

It is necessary because people need healthcare. It is a good idea because privatised health care doesn't work. Your system has shown that.

 

[Dr Grump]

Only gov't prevents corporations from subjugating us (since the Greatest Generation moved on, and unions have been weakened by Reaganism), and only Dem gov't, obviously.

How are corporations "subjugating" you? Is someone forcing you to work for one?

Being thick as pig shit you obviously can't join the dots...

You don't think multi-million dollar companies like the oil and tobacco companies paying squillions to lobbyists to bend the ear of politicians who are supposed to representing YOU not big business is not a form of subjugation? You probably think it's foreplay.

The thing that cracks me up most about your neocon whackjobs is your whole mantra is all about "my freedom", yet you are more willing to act the sheeple for these lobbyists saying it is freedom of speech. As I have mentioned on another thread recently. Only in USA neocon whackjob land is lobbying called freedom of speech. In other countries it's called at best bribery, at worst corruption...

 

[Listening]

The liberal mythology of healthcare being a right

We like to call ourselves "superpower" and exploit our bullshit all over the world yet we cannot take care of our own. F'n sad.

Health care is already a 'right'...if someone without insurance wraps their car around a tree; firemen will pry them out, paramedics will stabilize them, an ambulance will rush them to a hospital, wheel them into ER where doctors will work to save their life. And WE get to pay for it...

Irony...in Iraq, triage doctors performed life saving procedures on American soldiers AND enemy combatants.

Horsehockey....

Society considers it an obligation to help.

You have no "right" to expect it.

 

[Listening]

It is necessary because people need healthcare. It is a good idea because privatised health care doesn't work. Your system has shown that.

It works fine.

You are obvioulsy not really an M.D.

Of course, what the standard is for "works" is something that never gets addressed.

 

[The T]

Only gov't prevents corporations from subjugating us (since the Greatest Generation moved on, and unions have been weakened by Reaganism), and only Dem gov't, obviously.

How are corporations "subjugating" you? Is someone forcing you to work for one?

That's the point. Don't like it? Start your own business. Take the risk yourself instead of whining.

 

[Listening]

Health Care is not a right. Never has been. So, how is it suddenly going to be one.

President Obama says he believes it is a right (he also says "It is wrong for anybody to say....." in his speeches thus showing how really shallow and narrow minded he is...but I digress).

He is also a so-called constitutional scholar. All that means is that he has studied ways to get around the constitution.

To change subjects....

People keep citing this Harvard roll of toilet paper that claims 45,000 people die every year due to lack of health care. It's a load of crap.

Nobody has every produced a name. The study is several years old and by now somebody should have a definitive list. And if the left could really find them, there would be a wall with their names on it.

The truth is that they can't. It is just one more example of the fairy tales the left tells to support their desires to pull this country towards socialism.

 

[The T]

Health Care is not a right. Never has been. So, how is it suddenly going to be one.

President Obama says he believes it is a right (he also says "It is wrong for anybody to say....." in his speeches thus showing how really shallow and narrow minded he is...but I digress).

He is also a so-called constitutional scholar. All that means is that he has studied ways to get around the constitution.

To change subjects....

People keep citing this Harvard roll of toilet paper that claims 45,000 people die every year due to lack of health care. It's a load of crap.

Nobody has every produced a name. The study is several years old and by now somebody should have a definitive list. And if the left could really find them, there would be a wall with their names on it.

The truth is that they can't. It is just one more example of the fairy tales the left tells to support their desires to pull this country towards socialism.

However they will drag to the podium the occaisional hard luck story and pretend that is the norm.

 

[Listening]

However they will drag to the podium the occaisional hard luck story and pretend that is the norm.

Of course they will....they have no real argument.

The tout Canada or the NHS of Britian.....both of which have examples of failures (which does not make them bad.....any huge system will have a statistical rate of failure) but ignore them.

That anyone actually believes we are 37th in terms of health care is hysterical.

We have the best system in the world. We need to fix several things....but we don't need BO to do it.

In fact, any of his fixes will be permanent breaks.

 

[Listening]

However they will drag to the podium the occaisional hard luck story and pretend that is the norm.

And every time I post this, there is a huge silence. They have yet to produce one clearly identifiable example. They have 45 K a year over the past 10 years (according to Harvard...it had been going on that long...who else came from Harvard ?). That is half a milion people.

Still not statistically significant when 1% is 3 million....but enough to produce some hard examples.....

Nada.

 

[Toronado3800]

Health Care is not a right. Never has been. So, how is it suddenly going to be one.

President Obama says he believes it is a right (he also says "It is wrong for anybody to say....." in his speeches thus showing how really shallow and narrow minded he is...but I digress).

He is also a so-called constitutional scholar. All that means is that he has studied ways to get around the constitution.

To change subjects....

People keep citing this Harvard roll of toilet paper that claims 45,000 people die every year due to lack of health care. It's a load of crap.

Nobody has every produced a name. The study is several years old and by now somebody should have a definitive list. And if the left could really find them, there would be a wall with their names on it.

The truth is that they can't. It is just one more example of the fairy tales the left tells to support their desires to pull this country towards socialism.

With due respect I will repeat myself.

Our healthcare system has been an odd socialized mess since medical science became a real science.

If my poor neighbor has a heart attack and his wife dials 911 the ambulance shows up and attempts to save his life. Maybe he pays, maybe he doesn't. I know someone with no insurance who has had their gall bladder removed and paid $100 towards the total.

To say no one dies early because of lack of money for healthcare is also untrue somehow.

Check this out. The working poor may have a house. If one catches HIV he can not obtain the Magic Johnson quality of care because those doctors will eventually quit giving him drugs. True story.

So xxx number of folks do die early because their either can not play the system well enough or they are trying to save their loved one's inheritance or whatever.

Thank you for your time.

 

[The T]

However they will drag to the podium the occaisional hard luck story and pretend that is the norm.

And every time I post this, there is a huge silence. They have yet to produce one clearly identifiable example. They have 45 K a year over the past 10 years (according to Harvard...it had been going on that long...who else came from Harvard ?). That is half a milion people.

Still not statistically significant when 1% is 3 million....but enough to produce some hard examples.....

Nada.

They can't. It's that simple.

 

[Listening]

With due respect I will repeat myself.

Our healthcare system has been an odd socialized mess since medical science became a real science.

If my poor neighbor has a heart attack and his wife dials 911 the ambulance shows up and attempts to save his life. Maybe he pays, maybe he doesn't. I know someone with no insurance who has had their gall bladder removed and paid $100 towards the total.

To say no one dies early because of lack of money for healthcare is also untrue somehow.

Check this out. The working poor may have a house. If one catches HIV he can not obtain the Magic Johnson quality of care because those doctors will eventually quit giving him drugs. True story.

So xxx number of folks do die early because their either can not play the system well enough or they are trying to save their loved one's inheritance or whatever.

Thank you for your time.

You are still without a useful point.

Check this out. My mother was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. The cancer center wanted to put her on Chemo. I had checked around and talked to a number of people who's parents had died because of Chemo. So for two reasons, I recommended my mother not go for the treatments. One, it might kill her early. Two, she was going to die anyway and it was going to be costly (and somehow the fact that she had smoked for 50 years played into it too).

So if she does not take the chemo...she dies early for lack fo health care. Or the left might try to spin it that way.

As it was, she spent 20 K of tax payer money for chemo and radiation, but she never finished the chemo as she caught pneumonia in the middle of it and really never recovered. In essence, chemo (or health care) killed her.

Everybody dies. And we are not going to spend all our money propping up people with one foot in the grave.

True story.

And you still have not produced a name.....not one freaking name.

 

[Greenbeard]

Of course, what the standard is for "works" is something that never gets addressed.

It's pretty simple. Innovations that "work" will make progress toward the triple aim of simultaneously improving the experience of care, improving the health of populations, and reducing per capita costs of health care.

 

[dblack]

Once a majority accept the notion it makes it much easier to push through their plans for centralizing health care under government control. They can do so without proving why it is necessary, or a even good idea, by simply falling back on the (erroneous) assumption that health care is a right.

It is necessary because people need healthcare. It is a good idea because privatised health care doesn't work. Your system has shown that.

Fine. Then our leaders should be justifying it on those grounds. And, if they plan to make it a new federal power, proposing a Constitutional amendment that supports it.

But pretending it's a right is deceptive and destructive, especially while many of the same people are standing by as our real rights fall by the wayside (due process, habeas corpus, etc, etc...).