Greenbeard
Gold Member
- Jun 20, 2010
- 7,664
- 1,646
I guess the GOP is not trying to end Medicare after all. Glad you saw your error.
You're really lost on this one, aren't you?
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I guess the GOP is not trying to end Medicare after all. Glad you saw your error.
I guess the GOP is not trying to end Medicare after all. Glad you saw your error.
You're really lost on this one, aren't you?
I posted the original act. Then I asked where it was the GOP sought to repeal that act or its intent. I got crickets.
I posted the original act. Then I asked where it was the GOP sought to repeal that act or its intent. I got crickets.
That's because I don't know how to help you. I can't connect concepts for you, that's something your mind has to learn to do for itself.
The law as it stands establishes a public insurance program for the nation's elderly. Paul Ryan proposes to end that public insurance program. Somewhere in there you're having trouble with this. I don't know where and thus I can't help you.
Stop electing republicans..or stop complaining. The choice is simple.
yea lets just elect Democrats.....that will make it so much better......
Democrats are not talking about dismantling SSI, Medicare and Medicaid.
Which part of his program ends Medicare? What is the new program to be called?
I want medicare??????? Really?????????
I want it all gone! Social Security, welfare, all of this crap. If is isn't in the Constitutionm, the federal government shouldn't be involved in it.
Period!
I guess you're ready to dissolve the Air Force, eh?
Um, Defending the Nation is one of the FEW THINGS in the constitution. IDIOT! Have you ever read it? Things like SS, Medicare Etc. They are not in there. Providing for the Defense of the nation is. Therefore the Air force is, and you are a fucking idiot for comparing the 2.
Ryan's plan is not to "end it to save it" that is your partisan take. His plan would instill it with free market incentves through competitive forces instead of the heavy hand of the bureacracy squeezing providers til they disappear.
If that's your way of saying Medicare is dismantled and seniors are instead pushed into the individual private market with a defined contribution that's in no way pegged to the actual cost of private insurance, sure. That's what I'm saying. Medicare no longer exists under that proposal. The basic benefit currently guaranteed to seniors in federal law disappears. CMS ceases to function as a payer. You're free to argue the merits of that approach but not noticing that Medicare is eliminated under it? That's a fairly basic point to miss.
Ryan's plan is not to "end it to save it" that is your partisan take. His plan would instill it with free market incentves through competitive forces instead of the heavy hand of the bureacracy squeezing providers til they disappear.
If that's your way of saying Medicare is dismantled and seniors are instead pushed into the individual private market with a defined contribution that's in no way pegged to the actual cost of private insurance, sure. That's what I'm saying. Medicare no longer exists under that proposal. The basic benefit currently guaranteed to seniors in federal law disappears. CMS ceases to function as a payer. You're free to argue the merits of that approach but not noticing that Medicare is eliminated under it? That's a fairly basic point to miss.
It will be a different plan for folks under 55; for those older it will remain the same.
Medicare is going to change one way or the other. Either we face up to problem we have with our budget, a part of which is dedicated to Medicare, or we will lose that choice and the program as it exists anyway. I'm for dealing with it asap, not just accusations when our moment of opportunity is past and has been lost.
If that's your way of saying Medicare is dismantled and seniors are instead pushed into the individual private market with a defined contribution that's in no way pegged to the actual cost of private insurance, sure. That's what I'm saying. Medicare no longer exists under that proposal. The basic benefit currently guaranteed to seniors in federal law disappears. CMS ceases to function as a payer. You're free to argue the merits of that approach but not noticing that Medicare is eliminated under it? That's a fairly basic point to miss.
It will be a different plan for folks under 55; for those older it will remain the same.
Medicare is going to change one way or the other. Either we face up to problem we have with our budget, a part of which is dedicated to Medicare, or we will lose that choice and the program as it exists anyway. I'm for dealing with it asap, not just accusations when our moment of opportunity is past and has been lost.
So you agree that under Ryan's plan, Medicare ceases to exist?
That is my take on the matterIt will be a different plan for folks under 55; for those older it will remain the same.
Which part of his program ends Medicare? What is the new program to be called?
Again, I don't know how to explain this to you. So let's start with the basics. A "payer" submits reimbursements to providers on behalf of those it serves; this is an insurer. For example, when I say I have "Blue Cross/Blue Shield," I'm describing my payer to you. Medicare is an example of a payer. It's a form of public health insurance.
If I asked someone over the age of 65 who their insurer is, they'd probably say "Medicare." (the entity here is technically CMS but Medicare refers to the program under which CMS serves that payment role). Just as, were I asked, I would say "Blue Cross/Blue Shield."
Under Ryan's proposal, no one would ever answer "Medicare" to that question, beyond those grandfathered in. Because it would no longer exist. Instead, a senior might answer something like BCBS, or Aetna, or whatever. They would in fact not be allowed to answer Medicare to that question--this is why Alice Rivlin, Ryan's one-time collaborator, has rejected the framework he released last week. Seniors are not even allowed to choose Medicare as their payer anymore under his proposal. This is because Medicare will eventually simply cease to exist. The changes, of course, are even broader than that. The benefit seniors are guaranteed in law will also vanish. But the above is the key point here.
I don't know how to make it any clearer than that, nor do I have any desire to. It seems evident to me that if this is still opaque to you, that's by choice and there's no reason for me to keep talking to a wall.
So it is disingenuous to argue that he is ending Medicare. Rather he is ending the current manner that Medicare operates in. Currently Medicare helps pay for health insurance. Under teh Ryan plan Medicare will help pay for health insurance. See the difference? Me neither.According to the congressman, seniors would still get a fixed subsidy from the government to help pay for premiums, but under his proposal, it would come from a private health plan of their choosing. Medicare would send the subsidies to the private plans, which would necessarily compete against each other.
Which part of his program ends Medicare? What is the new program to be called?
Again, I don't know how to explain this to you. So let's start with the basics. A "payer" submits reimbursements to providers on behalf of those it serves; this is an insurer. For example, when I say I have "Blue Cross/Blue Shield," I'm describing my payer to you. Medicare is an example of a payer. It's a form of public health insurance.
If I asked someone over the age of 65 who their insurer is, they'd probably say "Medicare." (the entity here is technically CMS but Medicare refers to the program under which CMS serves that payment role). Just as, were I asked, I would say "Blue Cross/Blue Shield."
Under Ryan's proposal, no one would ever answer "Medicare" to that question, beyond those grandfathered in. Because it would no longer exist. Instead, a senior might answer something like BCBS, or Aetna, or whatever. They would in fact not be allowed to answer Medicare to that question--this is why Alice Rivlin, Ryan's one-time collaborator, has rejected the framework he released last week. Seniors are not even allowed to choose Medicare as their payer anymore under his proposal. This is because Medicare will eventually simply cease to exist. The changes, of course, are even broader than that. The benefit seniors are guaranteed in law will also vanish. But the above is the key point here.
I don't know how to make it any clearer than that, nor do I have any desire to. It seems evident to me that if this is still opaque to you, that's by choice and there's no reason for me to keep talking to a wall.
OK. You haven't done more than play semantics.
In fact:
So it is disingenuous to argue that he is ending Medicare. Rather he is ending the current manner that Medicare operates in. Currently Medicare helps pay for health insurance. Under teh Ryan plan Medicare will help pay for health insurance. See the difference? Me neither.According to the congressman, seniors would still get a fixed subsidy from the government to help pay for premiums, but under his proposal, it would come from a private health plan of their choosing. Medicare would send the subsidies to the private plans, which would necessarily “compete against each other.”
Currently Medicare helps pay for health insurance.
I repeat my earlier request to G: please supply me a link to any source material you have that fully explains Ryan's proposal, and I'm not interested in partisan evaluations or interpretations that focus on rhetorically exploitable phrases or material that is not a part of the plan as proposed.
Those people fucking paid in. Stop trying to steal shit from people, you fucking cowards.
CG, you are delusional.
No one "paid in." There isn't any "lock box!"
The money was spent! That's the scam of it!
But just because they were ripped off doesn't mean we need to KEEP ripping everyone off.
Like all pyramid schemes, sooner or later it has to stop, before it brings everyone down.
Wow, it's really pathetic when a thread devolves into a meaningless semantics bitchfest.
It will be a different plan for folks under 55; for those older it will remain the same.
Medicare is going to change one way or the other. Either we face up to problem we have with our budget, a part of which is dedicated to Medicare, or we will lose that choice and the program as it exists anyway. I'm for dealing with it asap, not just accusations when our moment of opportunity is past and has been lost.
So you agree that under Ryan's plan, Medicare ceases to exist?
That is my take on the matterIt will be a different plan for folks under 55; for those older it will remain the same.
Also, state sponsored plans will replace it, partly through block grants, and partly through local expenditures.
Those people fucking paid in. Stop trying to steal shit from people, you fucking cowards.
CG, you are delusional.
No one "paid in." There isn't any "lock box!"
The money was spent! That's the scam of it!
But just because they were ripped off doesn't mean we need to KEEP ripping everyone off.
Like all pyramid schemes, sooner or later it has to stop, before it brings everyone down.