The Maturation Of Our President

[Oldstyle]

Which is why when Barry and John Kerry went looking for folks to join their "alliance"...nobody was biting. They don't believe Barack Obama wants to fight and will bail as soon as he can.

 

[Vigilante]

The thread title is complete horse shit. Obama has neither matured nor evolved. Also, do not confuse pragmatism with Obama's governing philosophy (if he even has one).

Obama operates on 2 levels. Number one is the areas he is interested in and in which he seeks to advance an agenda. Level 2 is everything else. Obama lacks a real and effective national security policy. When a matter arises like ISIS his M.O. Is to take a reactive stance. That is, on these - what I call "level 2" - matters there is little or no proactive policy being prosecuted. Instead, Obama just reacts when something happens.

With the ISIS matter Obama has to act because of the rising discontent with televised executions of Americans. If not for that, then few would think Obama would do anything. Obama may act, but it will be with reluctance. Obama does not want to use overt American force lest he contradict his core values that hold that the west has historically acted with force in order to effect its will on the rest of the world, as well as to usurp world resources. This is, of course, obvious leftist bullshit that clouds Obama's judgment (and which should have been evident to voters well prior to the 2008 elections). Obama's world theory casts the USA as a colonial power who unjustly gains influence through international acts of militarized aggression. Thus, to send in troops to Iraq now conflicts with his world view. Hence, any such action on his part to do this is with great reluctance and is necessarily couched in terms of avoiding humanitarian crises and the odd theory of "leading from behind".

Also, has anyone noticed that notwithstanding all of the bravado about our intervention against ISIS there has been NO ACTION? Obama could order a set of air strikes right now and our military, in its current posture, can carry out orders in a matter of hours, or sooner. What is Obama waiting on? Moreover, is Obama REALLY going to follow through with strike plans at all? Or, is he up to something else? Something tells me that he is angling for something here.

Obama has not matured. He is fundamentally a different person than most Americans. He was not socialized as an American. He does not hold any real, vested connection to America. It makes me queasy to even refer to him as Commander in Chief, especially given his open hostility to our generals. His perceived maturity is merely him reacting to world events in a manner that he feels best serves his politics.

No action? The last report was at least 150 targets hit so far.

With all due respect, Dis...that's a 150 air strikes since they started hitting targets for "humanitarian" aid weeks ago. That's really rather pitiful but expected because it's almost impossible to do air strikes without spotters on the ground and Barry won't do spotters on the ground.

 

[Discombobulated]

On only the first day of Desert Storm, by contrast, over 100 Tomahawk missiles were launched and over the course of the 43 day war, the Navy and Air Force flew over 94,000 sorties. 150 strikes is a joke.

What do you suppose that has to do with this?

 

[Oldstyle]

On only the first day of Desert Storm, by contrast, over 100 Tomahawk missiles were launched and over the course of the 43 day war, the Navy and Air Force flew over 94,000 sorties. 150 strikes is a joke.

What do you suppose that has to do with this?

You pointed to the 150 air strikes as "proof" of Barack Obama's seriousness about attacking ISIS...implying that was a large number, Dis and it simply ISN'T! What I was trying to show was that when you're REALLY serious about deploying American firepower it can be done with devastating effect but that hasn't been done by Obama nor do I see any signs that it will be done. The very small number of air strikes we have done simply underscores this President's reluctance to fight ISIS. What's worse is that I don't think he would be doing the little that he is if it weren't for plummeting poll numbers following the beheading of two American journalists.

 

[Discombobulated]

On only the first day of Desert Storm, by contrast, over 100 Tomahawk missiles were launched and over the course of the 43 day war, the Navy and Air Force flew over 94,000 sorties. 150 strikes is a joke.

What do you suppose that has to do with this?

You pointed to the 150 air strikes as "proof" of Barack Obama's seriousness about attacking ISIS...implying that was a large number, Dis and it simply ISN'T! What I was trying to show was that when you're REALLY serious about deploying American firepower it can be done with devastating effect but that hasn't been done by Obama nor do I see any signs that it will be done. The very small number of air strikes we have done simply underscores this President's reluctance to fight ISIS. What's worse is that I don't think he would be doing as little as he is if it weren't for plummeting poll numbers following the beheading of two American journalists.

And how do you know how many airstrikes are needed and where? I had no idea you were privy to Pentagon planning.

 

[Oldstyle]

On only the first day of Desert Storm, by contrast, over 100 Tomahawk missiles were launched and over the course of the 43 day war, the Navy and Air Force flew over 94,000 sorties. 150 strikes is a joke.

What do you suppose that has to do with this?

You pointed to the 150 air strikes as "proof" of Barack Obama's seriousness about attacking ISIS...implying that was a large number, Dis and it simply ISN'T! What I was trying to show was that when you're REALLY serious about deploying American firepower it can be done with devastating effect but that hasn't been done by Obama nor do I see any signs that it will be done. The very small number of air strikes we have done simply underscores this President's reluctance to fight ISIS. What's worse is that I don't think he would be doing as little as he is if it weren't for plummeting poll numbers following the beheading of two American journalists.

And how do you know how many airstrikes are needed and where? I had no idea you were privy to Pentagon planning.

I'm going to go out on a limb here (despite my limited knowledge of Pentagon planning!) and say that the airstrikes were "needed" when ISIS was moving across open desert between Syria and Iraq to attack places like Mosul. That didn't happen so now we face ISIS embedded in population centers where they can use civilians as human shields. Now I don't know about you, Dis...but I would characterize that as "piss poor planning".

 

[Oldstyle]

The problem we NOW face is that we are going to have root ISIS out of those population centers and while doing so run a very high risk of killing civilians. That problem is made worse by Barack Obama's insistence that no military "boots" be on the ground so that our air attacks will be for all intents and purposes BLIND. Good luck on THAT!!!

Bottom line? Barack Obama has been ignoring the advice of his military advisers and doing things HIS way. He owns the result...

 

[Discombobulated]

The problem we NOW face is that we are going to have root ISIS out of those population centers and while doing so run a very high risk of killing civilians. That problem is made worse by Barack Obama's insistence that no military "boots" be on the ground so that our air attacks will be for all intents and purposes BLIND. Good luck on THAT!!!

Bottom line? Barack Obama has been ignoring the advice of his military advisers and doing things HIS way. He owns the result...

I remember when President Bush ignored the advise of General Shinseki......Republicans didn't seem to mind at the time.

 

[Oldstyle]

The problem we NOW face is that we are going to have root ISIS out of those population centers and while doing so run a very high risk of killing civilians. That problem is made worse by Barack Obama's insistence that no military "boots" be on the ground so that our air attacks will be for all intents and purposes BLIND. Good luck on THAT!!!

Bottom line? Barack Obama has been ignoring the advice of his military advisers and doing things HIS way. He owns the result...

I remember when President Bush ignored the advise of General Shinseki......Republicans didn't seem to mind at the time.

With all due respect, Dis...I don't think any President in the long history of our nation has ignored more of his military leaders then Barack Obama!

I hate to break this to you...but it's pretty obvious our military leaders think Barry is clueless.

 

[Oldstyle]

And Shinseki had more of a problem with Donald Rumsfeld than he ever did with George W. Bush.

 

[Discombobulated]

And Shinseki had more of a problem with Donald Rumsfeld than he ever did with George W. Bush.

None the less it seems Presidents all ignore their military advisers. There were Marines who thought it was a really bad idea to put one battalion at Beu

The problem we NOW face is that we are going to have root ISIS out of those population centers and while doing so run a very high risk of killing civilians. That problem is made worse by Barack Obama's insistence that no military "boots" be on the ground so that our air attacks will be for all intents and purposes BLIND. Good luck on THAT!!!

Bottom line? Barack Obama has been ignoring the advice of his military advisers and doing things HIS way. He owns the result...

I remember when President Bush ignored the advise of General Shinseki......Republicans didn't seem to mind at the time.

With all due respect, Dis...I don't think any President in the long history of our nation has ignored more of his military leaders then Barack Obama!

I hate to break this to you...but it's pretty obvious our military leaders think Barry is clueless.

No doubt you can name the Presidents who blindly followed their military advisors.

 

[Oldstyle]

And Shinseki had more of a problem with Donald Rumsfeld than he ever did with George W. Bush.

None the less it seems Presidents all ignore their military advisers. There were Marines who thought it was a really bad idea to put one battalion at Beu

The problem we NOW face is that we are going to have root ISIS out of those population centers and while doing so run a very high risk of killing civilians. That problem is made worse by Barack Obama's insistence that no military "boots" be on the ground so that our air attacks will be for all intents and purposes BLIND. Good luck on THAT!!!

Bottom line? Barack Obama has been ignoring the advice of his military advisers and doing things HIS way. He owns the result...

I remember when President Bush ignored the advise of General Shinseki......Republicans didn't seem to mind at the time.

With all due respect, Dis...I don't think any President in the long history of our nation has ignored more of his military leaders then Barack Obama!

I hate to break this to you...but it's pretty obvious our military leaders think Barry is clueless.

No doubt you can name the Presidents who blindly followed their military advisors.

It's not a question of "blindly" following the advice of military experts...it's choosing to wear "blinders" as you DON'T follow their advice...which is EXACTLY what Barack Obama has done!

 

[Discombobulated]

And Shinseki had more of a problem with Donald Rumsfeld than he ever did with George W. Bush.

None the less it seems Presidents all ignore their military advisers. There were Marines who thought it was a really bad idea to put one battalion at Beu

The problem we NOW face is that we are going to have root ISIS out of those population centers and while doing so run a very high risk of killing civilians. That problem is made worse by Barack Obama's insistence that no military "boots" be on the ground so that our air attacks will be for all intents and purposes BLIND. Good luck on THAT!!!

Bottom line? Barack Obama has been ignoring the advice of his military advisers and doing things HIS way. He owns the result...

I remember when President Bush ignored the advise of General Shinseki......Republicans didn't seem to mind at the time.

With all due respect, Dis...I don't think any President in the long history of our nation has ignored more of his military leaders then Barack Obama!

I hate to break this to you...but it's pretty obvious our military leaders think Barry is clueless.

No doubt you can name the Presidents who blindly followed their military advisors.

It's not a question of "blindly" following the advice of military experts...it's choosing to wear "blinders" as you DON'T follow their advice...which is EXACTLY what Barack Obama has done!

And you know this because you attended the cabinet meetings where the President decided to ignore his military advisers........or are you clairvoyant?

 

[Oldstyle]

And Shinseki had more of a problem with Donald Rumsfeld than he ever did with George W. Bush.

None the less it seems Presidents all ignore their military advisers. There were Marines who thought it was a really bad idea to put one battalion at Beu

The problem we NOW face is that we are going to have root ISIS out of those population centers and while doing so run a very high risk of killing civilians. That problem is made worse by Barack Obama's insistence that no military "boots" be on the ground so that our air attacks will be for all intents and purposes BLIND. Good luck on THAT!!!

Bottom line? Barack Obama has been ignoring the advice of his military advisers and doing things HIS way. He owns the result...

I remember when President Bush ignored the advise of General Shinseki......Republicans didn't seem to mind at the time.

With all due respect, Dis...I don't think any President in the long history of our nation has ignored more of his military leaders then Barack Obama!

I hate to break this to you...but it's pretty obvious our military leaders think Barry is clueless.

No doubt you can name the Presidents who blindly followed their military advisors.

It's not a question of "blindly" following the advice of military experts...it's choosing to wear "blinders" as you DON'T follow their advice...which is EXACTLY what Barack Obama has done!

And you know this because you attended the cabinet meetings where the President decided to ignore his military advisers........or are you clairvoyant?

Come on, Dis...you don't have to be sitting in on Cabinet meetings to know that Obama has ignored the military command! Take his latest "action" against ISIS. Obama declares that his strategy will not involve boots on the ground but will only be an air campaign against ISIS. His military advisers tell him they need Special Forces operating on the ground as spotters to carry that out. Obama refuses. He ignores the advice of his military experts because what they are telling him collides with his own determination to be the President who stopped the war in Iraq.

 

[Discombobulated]

And Shinseki had more of a problem with Donald Rumsfeld than he ever did with George W. Bush.

None the less it seems Presidents all ignore their military advisers. There were Marines who thought it was a really bad idea to put one battalion at Beu

I remember when President Bush ignored the advise of General Shinseki......Republicans didn't seem to mind at the time.

With all due respect, Dis...I don't think any President in the long history of our nation has ignored more of his military leaders then Barack Obama!

I hate to break this to you...but it's pretty obvious our military leaders think Barry is clueless.

No doubt you can name the Presidents who blindly followed their military advisors.

It's not a question of "blindly" following the advice of military experts...it's choosing to wear "blinders" as you DON'T follow their advice...which is EXACTLY what Barack Obama has done!

And you know this because you attended the cabinet meetings where the President decided to ignore his military advisers........or are you clairvoyant?

Come on, Dis...you don't have to be sitting in on Cabinet meetings to know that Obama has ignored the military command! Take his latest "action" against ISIS. Obama declares that his strategy will not involve boots on the ground but will only be an air campaign against ISIS. His military advisers tell him they need Special Forces operating on the ground as spotters to carry that out. Obama refuses. He ignores the advice of his military experts because what they are telling him collides with his own determination to be the President who stopped the war in Iraq.

I'm sure you know a lot more about the decision making process than I do since you evidently have a high level clearance.

 

[Oldstyle]

And Shinseki had more of a problem with Donald Rumsfeld than he ever did with George W. Bush.

None the less it seems Presidents all ignore their military advisers. There were Marines who thought it was a really bad idea to put one battalion at Beu

With all due respect, Dis...I don't think any President in the long history of our nation has ignored more of his military leaders then Barack Obama!

I hate to break this to you...but it's pretty obvious our military leaders think Barry is clueless.

No doubt you can name the Presidents who blindly followed their military advisors.

It's not a question of "blindly" following the advice of military experts...it's choosing to wear "blinders" as you DON'T follow their advice...which is EXACTLY what Barack Obama has done!

And you know this because you attended the cabinet meetings where the President decided to ignore his military advisers........or are you clairvoyant?

Come on, Dis...you don't have to be sitting in on Cabinet meetings to know that Obama has ignored the military command! Take his latest "action" against ISIS. Obama declares that his strategy will not involve boots on the ground but will only be an air campaign against ISIS. His military advisers tell him they need Special Forces operating on the ground as spotters to carry that out. Obama refuses. He ignores the advice of his military experts because what they are telling him collides with his own determination to be the President who stopped the war in Iraq.

I'm sure you know a lot more about the decision making process than I do since you evidently have a high level clearance.

Do you dispute my contention that the military brass have been telling Obama all along that they need Special Forces operators on the ground to conduct an effective air war against ISIS? Or are you disputing that Obama has so far refused to take that advice?

Quite frankly, you don't need high level clearance to know how this debate is taking place.

 

[Discombobulated]

None the less it seems Presidents all ignore their military advisers. There were Marines who thought it was a really bad idea to put one battalion at Beu
No doubt you can name the Presidents who blindly followed their military advisors.

It's not a question of "blindly" following the advice of military experts...it's choosing to wear "blinders" as you DON'T follow their advice...which is EXACTLY what Barack Obama has done!

And you know this because you attended the cabinet meetings where the President decided to ignore his military advisers........or are you clairvoyant?

Come on, Dis...you don't have to be sitting in on Cabinet meetings to know that Obama has ignored the military command! Take his latest "action" against ISIS. Obama declares that his strategy will not involve boots on the ground but will only be an air campaign against ISIS. His military advisers tell him they need Special Forces operating on the ground as spotters to carry that out. Obama refuses. He ignores the advice of his military experts because what they are telling him collides with his own determination to be the President who stopped the war in Iraq.

I'm sure you know a lot more about the decision making process than I do since you evidently have a high level clearance.

Do you dispute my contention that the military brass have been telling Obama all along that they need Special Forces operators on the ground to conduct an effective air war against ISIS? Or are you disputing that Obama has so far refused to take that advice?

Quite frankly, you don't need high level clearance to know how this debate is taking place.

How could I possibly dispute anything you say when you obviously have the inside information.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[Discombobulated]

 

[Genevieve]

We have seen Obama gradually morph from a leftist determined to change America to a pragmatist who has suppressed his fantasies and perhaps reluctantly embraced reality. ISIS is the straw that ended his dream. He was faced with the fact that you just can't satisfy some people and that they will kill you if you don't kill them. I've seen this happen to idealists, including myself, in the course of my 63 years. Sometimes reality, as miserable as it can often be, is irresistible.
"We will degrade and ultimately destroy, ISIL..." - Obama

I haven't seen Obama "morph" in any way at all.
Seems to me he has dug in his heels and refused to change even when signs showed that what he is doing is not working. During his tenure he has not learned how to work with his opposition. Most Presidents, by 6 years in, have learned how to do this in some little ways at least, but Obama has not. He has not learned when to speak out and when to keep quiet. He tells the world what his "war" plans are. And he makes comments on local issues that a President should talk about by proxy if at all.
The only thing we can be certain of is that he is getting better at being inept. But that's not a good thing.