The Messianic Idea in Judaism

[ding]

Belief in the eventual coming of the mashiach is a basic and fundamental part of traditional Judaism.

I am interested in your thoughts on the Messianic idea in Judaism.

Judaism is the covenant between a particular Canaanite tribe, the Israelites, and one of the iron-age gods of the Canaanites. The belief at the time was that a powerful god would take care of his people and they too would be powerful. That arrangement worked for a time but they eventually were conquered by their more powerful neighbors. They must have been sinful or that would never have been allowed to happen so they needed to repent. When they were sufficiently back to their god he would send a leader to free them. He could be a soldier or a prophet. That was what they expected as they chafed under Roman rule. Jesus, a follower of John the Baptist, attempted to fulfill that role when John was killed but the Romans interceded and ended his life on a cross. My $0.02.

The Torah contains several references to "the End of Days" (acharit ha-yamim), which is the time of the mashiach; thus, the concept of mashiach was known in the most ancient times. The term "mashiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days.

This belief is what I am curious about; the maschiach in the End Days. For that matter the End Days too.

Do you have any information on that?

You mean the TANACH----the Torah is just the first five books of that which you call "the old testament"---
I do not recall "final days" and Moshiach prophecies in the TORAH

It is not explicitly mentioned in the Torah, but traditional Judaism maintains that the messianic idea has always been a part of Judaism. The mashiach is not mentioned explicitly in the Torah, because the Torah was written in terms that all people could understand, and the abstract concept of a distant, spiritual, future reward was beyond the comprehension of some people. However, the Torah contains several references to "the End of Days" (acharit ha-yamim), which is the time of the mashiach; thus, the concept of mashiach was known in the most ancient times.

Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah

 

[admonit]

Belief in the eventual coming of the mashiach is a basic and fundamental part of traditional Judaism.

I am interested in your thoughts on the Messianic idea in Judaism.

Judaism is the covenant between a particular Canaanite tribe, the Israelites, and one of the iron-age gods of the Canaanites. The belief at the time was that a powerful god would take care of his people and they too would be powerful. That arrangement worked for a time but they eventually were conquered by their more powerful neighbors. They must have been sinful or that would never have been allowed to happen so they needed to repent. When they were sufficiently back to their god he would send a leader to free them. He could be a soldier or a prophet. That was what they expected as they chafed under Roman rule. Jesus, a follower of John the Baptist, attempted to fulfill that role when John was killed but the Romans interceded and ended his life on a cross. My $0.02.

The Torah contains several references to "the End of Days" (acharit ha-yamim), which is the time of the mashiach; thus, the concept of mashiach was known in the most ancient times. The term "mashiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days.

This belief is what I am curious about; the maschiach in the End Days. For that matter the End Days too.

Do you have any information on that?

You mean the TANACH----the Torah is just the first five books of that which you call "the old testament"---
I do not recall "final days" and Moshiach prophecies in the TORAH

It is not explicitly mentioned in the Torah, but traditional Judaism maintains that the messianic idea has always been a part of Judaism. The mashiach is not mentioned explicitly in the Torah, because the Torah was written in terms that all people could understand, and the abstract concept of a distant, spiritual, future reward was beyond the comprehension of some people. However, the Torah contains several references to "the End of Days" (acharit ha-yamim), which is the time of the mashiach; thus, the concept of mashiach was known in the most ancient times.

Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah

"This site is created, written and maintained by Tracey Rich. I do not claim to be a rabbi or an expert on Judaism; I'm just a traditional, observant Jew"

 

[fncceo]

I have yet to have a conversation with any xtian on the subject of the moshiach that didn’t end with them asking me, ‘Then why don’t you believe in Jesus?’

Such discussions between Jews and non-Jews are pointless.

 

[alang1216]

Belief in the eventual coming of the mashiach is a basic and fundamental part of traditional Judaism.

I am interested in your thoughts on the Messianic idea in Judaism.

Judaism is the covenant between a particular Canaanite tribe, the Israelites, and one of the iron-age gods of the Canaanites. The belief at the time was that a powerful god would take care of his people and they too would be powerful. That arrangement worked for a time but they eventually were conquered by their more powerful neighbors. They must have been sinful or that would never have been allowed to happen so they needed to repent. When they were sufficiently back to their god he would send a leader to free them. He could be a soldier or a prophet. That was what they expected as they chafed under Roman rule. Jesus, a follower of John the Baptist, attempted to fulfill that role when John was killed but the Romans interceded and ended his life on a cross. My $0.02.

The Torah contains several references to "the End of Days" (acharit ha-yamim), which is the time of the mashiach; thus, the concept of mashiach was known in the most ancient times. The term "mashiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days.

This belief is what I am curious about; the maschiach in the End Days. For that matter the End Days too.

Do you have any information on that?

I don't believe that in Judaism there is only one messiah that will come at the end of days, I think that is a Christian invention:

Many people are anointed in the Hebrew Bible, and many are referred to as the messiah or anointed one. The high priest is called the anointed priest (Lev 4:3). God tells Elijah to anoint two different men as kings of their people: Hazael as king of Aram (1Kgs 19:15) and Jehu son of Nimshi as king over Israel. God also instructs Elijah to anoint his own successor, Elisha son of Shaphat, as prophet (1Kgs 19:16). At this point, the term messiah or anointed one did not refer to the apocalyptic savior of humankind.

The Persian emperor Cyrus is the only foreigner in the Bible to be identified as the messiah or anointed one of Yahweh, the Israelite God. Isaiah tells us that Yahweh spoke “to his messiah, to Cyrus, whom I [Yahweh] took by his right hand to subdue nations before him” (Isa 45:1). The other people called messiah or anointed one in the Bible aren’t designated Yahweh’s messiah, as Cyrus is.​

 

[ding]

Belief in the eventual coming of the mashiach is a basic and fundamental part of traditional Judaism.

I am interested in your thoughts on the Messianic idea in Judaism.

Judaism is the covenant between a particular Canaanite tribe, the Israelites, and one of the iron-age gods of the Canaanites. The belief at the time was that a powerful god would take care of his people and they too would be powerful. That arrangement worked for a time but they eventually were conquered by their more powerful neighbors. They must have been sinful or that would never have been allowed to happen so they needed to repent. When they were sufficiently back to their god he would send a leader to free them. He could be a soldier or a prophet. That was what they expected as they chafed under Roman rule. Jesus, a follower of John the Baptist, attempted to fulfill that role when John was killed but the Romans interceded and ended his life on a cross. My $0.02.

The Torah contains several references to "the End of Days" (acharit ha-yamim), which is the time of the mashiach; thus, the concept of mashiach was known in the most ancient times. The term "mashiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days.

This belief is what I am curious about; the maschiach in the End Days. For that matter the End Days too.

Do you have any information on that?

You mean the TANACH----the Torah is just the first five books of that which you call "the old testament"---
I do not recall "final days" and Moshiach prophecies in the TORAH

It is not explicitly mentioned in the Torah, but traditional Judaism maintains that the messianic idea has always been a part of Judaism. The mashiach is not mentioned explicitly in the Torah, because the Torah was written in terms that all people could understand, and the abstract concept of a distant, spiritual, future reward was beyond the comprehension of some people. However, the Torah contains several references to "the End of Days" (acharit ha-yamim), which is the time of the mashiach; thus, the concept of mashiach was known in the most ancient times.

Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah

"This site is created, written and maintained by Tracey Rich. I do not claim to be a rabbi or an expert on Judaism; I'm just a traditional, observant Jew"

OK. And?

 

[ding]

I have yet to have a conversation with any xtian on the subject of the moshiach that didn’t end with them asking me, ‘Then why don’t you believe in Jesus?’

Such discussions between Jews and non-Jews are pointless.

I can promise you I won't be asking that question.

 

[Penelope]

Rambam's thirteen principles of faith are what Rambam believed the minimum requirements of Jewish beliefs to be:

1. G-d exists
2. G-d is one and unique
3. G-d is incorporeal
4. G-d is eternal
5. Prayer is to be directed to G-d alone and to no other
6. The words of the prophets are true
7. Moses' prophecies are true, and Moses was the greatest of the prophets
8. The Written Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) and Oral Torah (teachings now contained in the Talmud and other writings) were given to Moses
9. There will be no other Torah
10. G-d knows the thoughts and deeds of men
11. G-d will reward the good and punish the wicked
12. The Messiah will come
13. The dead will be resurrected

did you know that in his lifetime----some people challenged the writings of Maimonides?

Is that because he was highly influenced by Al-Farabi, a Persian Shiite, the second Aristotle.

no-----Al Farabi was influenced by Jewish mysticism------KABBALISM. and the Sufis kept a close
communication with jewish scholars back then------not only Moshe ben maimon------but also his son---
Jews in Egypt and Morocco were somewhat protected by that relationship back then. It is fairly recently
that the friendly situation has gone down the toilet based on Arabism Islamism. Even Sufis are not what
they USED to be------they went off the deep end less than 200 years ago

Just the other way around. I also suspect the Jews influenced Protestantism , highly influenced the movement to go against the RCC which they hated.

 

[Mindful]

I have yet to have a conversation with any xtian on the subject of the moshiach that didn’t end with them asking me, ‘Then why don’t you believe in Jesus?’

Such discussions between Jews and non-Jews are pointless.

Absolutely.

 

[Mindful]

Rambam's thirteen principles of faith are what Rambam believed the minimum requirements of Jewish beliefs to be:

1. G-d exists
2. G-d is one and unique
3. G-d is incorporeal
4. G-d is eternal
5. Prayer is to be directed to G-d alone and to no other
6. The words of the prophets are true
7. Moses' prophecies are true, and Moses was the greatest of the prophets
8. The Written Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) and Oral Torah (teachings now contained in the Talmud and other writings) were given to Moses
9. There will be no other Torah
10. G-d knows the thoughts and deeds of men
11. G-d will reward the good and punish the wicked
12. The Messiah will come
13. The dead will be resurrected

did you know that in his lifetime----some people challenged the writings of Maimonides?

Is that because he was highly influenced by Al-Farabi, a Persian Shiite, the second Aristotle.

no-----Al Farabi was influenced by Jewish mysticism------KABBALISM. and the Sufis kept a close
communication with jewish scholars back then------not only Moshe ben maimon------but also his son---
Jews in Egypt and Morocco were somewhat protected by that relationship back then. It is fairly recently
that the friendly situation has gone down the toilet based on Arabism Islamism. Even Sufis are not what
they USED to be------they went off the deep end less than 200 years ago

Just the other way around. I also suspect the Jews influenced Protestantism , highly influenced the movement to go against the RCC which they hated.

Is there something you don't like about Jews, Penelope?

 

[irosie91]

Rambam's thirteen principles of faith are what Rambam believed the minimum requirements of Jewish beliefs to be:

1. G-d exists
2. G-d is one and unique
3. G-d is incorporeal
4. G-d is eternal
5. Prayer is to be directed to G-d alone and to no other
6. The words of the prophets are true
7. Moses' prophecies are true, and Moses was the greatest of the prophets
8. The Written Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) and Oral Torah (teachings now contained in the Talmud and other writings) were given to Moses
9. There will be no other Torah
10. G-d knows the thoughts and deeds of men
11. G-d will reward the good and punish the wicked
12. The Messiah will come
13. The dead will be resurrected

did you know that in his lifetime----some people challenged the writings of Maimonides?

Is that because he was highly influenced by Al-Farabi, a Persian Shiite, the second Aristotle.

no-----Al Farabi was influenced by Jewish mysticism------KABBALISM. and the Sufis kept a close
communication with jewish scholars back then------not only Moshe ben maimon------but also his son---
Jews in Egypt and Morocco were somewhat protected by that relationship back then. It is fairly recently
that the friendly situation has gone down the toilet based on Arabism Islamism. Even Sufis are not what
they USED to be------they went off the deep end less than 200 years ago

Just the other way around. I also suspect the Jews influenced Protestantism , highly influenced the movement to go against the RCC which they hated.

just what "other way around"? There is actual historical communication between prominent jews
and the developers of the SUFI sect-----both in north Africa and in Iran. --------you got some sort of
intellectual camaraderie between Martin Luther and jewish scholars?.

 

[irosie91]

Rambam's thirteen principles of faith are what Rambam believed the minimum requirements of Jewish beliefs to be:

1. G-d exists
2. G-d is one and unique
3. G-d is incorporeal
4. G-d is eternal
5. Prayer is to be directed to G-d alone and to no other
6. The words of the prophets are true
7. Moses' prophecies are true, and Moses was the greatest of the prophets
8. The Written Torah (first 5 books of the Bible) and Oral Torah (teachings now contained in the Talmud and other writings) were given to Moses
9. There will be no other Torah
10. G-d knows the thoughts and deeds of men
11. G-d will reward the good and punish the wicked
12. The Messiah will come
13. The dead will be resurrected

did you know that in his lifetime----some people challenged the writings of Maimonides?

Is that because he was highly influenced by Al-Farabi, a Persian Shiite, the second Aristotle.

no-----Al Farabi was influenced by Jewish mysticism------KABBALISM. and the Sufis kept a close
communication with jewish scholars back then------not only Moshe ben maimon------but also his son---
Jews in Egypt and Morocco were somewhat protected by that relationship back then. It is fairly recently
that the friendly situation has gone down the toilet based on Arabism Islamism. Even Sufis are not what
they USED to be------they went off the deep end less than 200 years ago

Just the other way around. I also suspect the Jews influenced Protestantism , highly influenced the movement to go against the RCC which they hated.

Is there something you don't like about Jews, Penelope?

Penny is preparing herself SPIRITUALLY for early sunday mass

 

[Mindful]

did you know that in his lifetime----some people challenged the writings of Maimonides?

Is that because he was highly influenced by Al-Farabi, a Persian Shiite, the second Aristotle.

no-----Al Farabi was influenced by Jewish mysticism------KABBALISM. and the Sufis kept a close
communication with jewish scholars back then------not only Moshe ben maimon------but also his son---
Jews in Egypt and Morocco were somewhat protected by that relationship back then. It is fairly recently
that the friendly situation has gone down the toilet based on Arabism Islamism. Even Sufis are not what
they USED to be------they went off the deep end less than 200 years ago

Just the other way around. I also suspect the Jews influenced Protestantism , highly influenced the movement to go against the RCC which they hated.

Is there something you don't like about Jews, Penelope?

Penny is preparing herself SPIRITUALLY for early sunday mass

Remember Arafat attending those?

 

[ding]

Do you guys mind sticking to the subject please.

 

[irosie91]

Is that because he was highly influenced by Al-Farabi, a Persian Shiite, the second Aristotle.

no-----Al Farabi was influenced by Jewish mysticism------KABBALISM. and the Sufis kept a close
communication with jewish scholars back then------not only Moshe ben maimon------but also his son---
Jews in Egypt and Morocco were somewhat protected by that relationship back then. It is fairly recently
that the friendly situation has gone down the toilet based on Arabism Islamism. Even Sufis are not what
they USED to be------they went off the deep end less than 200 years ago

Just the other way around. I also suspect the Jews influenced Protestantism , highly influenced the movement to go against the RCC which they hated.

Is there something you don't like about Jews, Penelope?

Penny is preparing herself SPIRITUALLY for early sunday mass

Remember Arafat attending those?

YES!!!! sometime around easter------like maybe 25 years ago (???) I was
fascinated-----he "prayed" in English (sorta) actually addressing "dear lord jesus"
I took deep breaths to avoid throwing up-------maybe more than 25 years ago----(?)
I cannot place this momentous event in time-----but I did understand it to be MOMENTOUS ---
by 25 years ago, I already had at least 25 years on muslim opinion of Jesus and christianity

 

[irosie91]

Do you guys mind sticking to the subject please.

sorry ding------I do not see BLATANT diversion----just a little healthy BRANCHING OUT

 

[Penelope]

Yes the Jews became monotheistic and got everything in the OP from being in Babylon and Zoroastrianism. Note the 2 scenes in genesis and they were not monotheistic before the exile.
After the exile they no longer referred to Yahweh but Lord.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The Jews had learned many things from the Persians and actively included Persian elements in their religion. It's important to note that this occurred side by side with the effort to purify the religion! Most of these elements were popular elements rather than official beliefs; they would persist only in Christianity which arose among the people rather than the educated and priestly classes. Among these were

a.) adoption of a dualistic universe. In early Hebrew belief, the universe was dominated only by Yahweh. All history was the result of two forces: Yahweh and human will. Perhaps in an effort to make sense of the Exile, the Hebrews gradually adopted the Persian idea that the universe is composed of two diametrically opposed forces, one good, and the other evil. So, after the Babylonian exile, the Hebrews, in their popular religion, talk about an evil force opposed to Yahweh, which becomes the "devil" in Christianity. (Satan in the Hebrew story, Job , is actually a member of Yahweh's circle; he seems to be some kind of itinerant prosecuting attorney.)

b.) belief in a dualistic afterlife. Before the Exile, the Hebrews believed that the soul after death went to a house of dust which they called "Sheol," to abide for a brief time before fading completely from existence. This belief was identical to all other Semitic versions of the afterlife. Therefore, Hebraism was primarily a this-world religion before the Exile. The Persians, though, believed that the souls of the good would reunite with the principle of good in eternal bliss; the souls of the evil would reunite with the principle evil to suffer until the final defeat of evil. In popular religion, the Hebrews adopted this view of the afterlife. This view of the afterlife powerfully explains suffering in this life, such as the Exile; cosmic justice is apparent only at one's death rather than during one's life. Again, it is only in the popular Jewish religions, such as the Essenes and the Christians, where this view becomes orthodox.

For another two hundred years, Persia dominated all of the Middle East and Egypt, and came within a hair's breadth of conquering Greece. During all this time Palestine was a tribute state of Persia. However, in the late fourth century BC, another man got the idea of conquering the world and set about doing it with ruthless efficiency. He was a Greek: Alexander of Macedon. When he conquered Persia in 332 BC, Palestine became a Greek state, and the children of Yavan would mix once again with the children of Shem.

After the Babylonian Exile

 

[irosie91]

Yes the Jews became monotheistic and got everything in the OP from being in Babylon and Zoroastrianism. Note the 2 scenes in genesis and they were not monotheistic before the exile.
After the exile they no longer referred to Yahweh but Lord.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The Jews had learned many things from the Persians and actively included Persian elements in their religion. It's important to note that this occurred side by side with the effort to purify the religion! Most of these elements were popular elements rather than official beliefs; they would persist only in Christianity which arose among the people rather than the educated and priestly classes. Among these were

a.) adoption of a dualistic universe. In early Hebrew belief, the universe was dominated only by Yahweh. All history was the result of two forces: Yahweh and human will. Perhaps in an effort to make sense of the Exile, the Hebrews gradually adopted the Persian idea that the universe is composed of two diametrically opposed forces, one good, and the other evil. So, after the Babylonian exile, the Hebrews, in their popular religion, talk about an evil force opposed to Yahweh, which becomes the "devil" in Christianity. (Satan in the Hebrew story, Job , is actually a member of Yahweh's circle; he seems to be some kind of itinerant prosecuting attorney.)

b.) belief in a dualistic afterlife. Before the Exile, the Hebrews believed that the soul after death went to a house of dust which they called "Sheol," to abide for a brief time before fading completely from existence. This belief was identical to all other Semitic versions of the afterlife. Therefore, Hebraism was primarily a this-world religion before the Exile. The Persians, though, believed that the souls of the good would reunite with the principle of good in eternal bliss; the souls of the evil would reunite with the principle evil to suffer until the final defeat of evil. In popular religion, the Hebrews adopted this view of the afterlife. This view of the afterlife powerfully explains suffering in this life, such as the Exile; cosmic justice is apparent only at one's death rather than during one's life. Again, it is only in the popular Jewish religions, such as the Essenes and the Christians, where this view becomes orthodox.

For another two hundred years, Persia dominated all of the Middle East and Egypt, and came within a hair's breadth of conquering Greece. During all this time Palestine was a tribute state of Persia. However, in the late fourth century BC, another man got the idea of conquering the world and set about doing it with ruthless efficiency. He was a Greek: Alexander of Macedon. When he conquered Persia in 332 BC, Palestine became a Greek state, and the children of Yavan would mix once again with the children of Shem.

After the Babylonian Exile

\

except for a few details, penny dear-----you entire essay is full of shit. The religion far more influenced by the
Persian creed is CHRISTIANITY ---not Judaism. That is first ROMAN culture and second---Persian creed.
Judaism was never polytheistic OR Dualistc --------Christianity absorbed both elements---ie polytheism and dualism. IN FACT----a VERY significant problem for jews living in Persia -----back then was the jewish
REJECTION of dualism--<<< an historic fact. As to THE DEVIL-----in Christianity THE DEVIL IS A GOD----
having powers of his own something like Hades. In Judaism SATAN is a divine construct only ----as you
correctly stated (even if you misunderstood the issue) as a "prosecuting attorney"-----under the control of the
creator judge ---ie the single POWER in the universe----"GOD" The issue is complicated in Judaism by
MANs' FREE WILL -----not by the freewill of the Christian "god" SATAN

 

[ding]

The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David).

 

[ding]

The mashiach will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5).

 

[irosie91]

The mashiach will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5).

Yes----Isaiah seems to have seen him as SCHOLAR KING-------and specifically not a "priest"