The Miracle

[g5000]

Borrows money?

Debt

You've both correctly guessed half the answer. That's the easy half which everyone knows.

What most people don't know is the other half of the miracle.

Creates new money out of thin air?

When the government borrows, it borrows some of the money from the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve creates the money it lends to the government out of thin air. But when it gets that money paid back, the Federal Reserve then destroys the money it had created out of thin air. Most anti-Fed people are ignorant of that part. The only money which doesn't get destroyed in the end is the interest, and that goes into the Treasury coffers.

The government gets the rest of the money it borrows from China and Great Britain and France and Middle Eastern princes and pension funds and college endowment funds and its own citizens and on and on and on.

So that's still only the easy half of the miracle.

 

[g5000]

Write a novel; you have a good start.

I actually am writing a book. And tax expenditures are one chapter.

I've given public speeches about this. And when I am done, the audience is really pissed at the government AND tax expenditures.

So go ahead. Guess what miracle the government does to make up the difference for all those deductions, credits, and exemptions.

Does it involve The Confidence Fairy?

That would be Fiat Money, and that is a whole different story. An excellent subject for discussion, too.

 

[IcebergSlim]

Yeah but why would the democrat party be dead? Because their programs don't work and their candidates have been found to be liars and crooks? The left has been proposing crazy arguments these days and perhaps it's time to seek professional help.

Being that I am familiar with your oeuvre, could you list the components of what you consider an "argument"?

 

[IcebergSlim]

Write a novel; you have a good start.

I actually am writing a book. And tax expenditures are one chapter.

I've given public speeches about this. And when I am done, the audience is really pissed at the government AND tax expenditures.

So go ahead. Guess what miracle the government does to make up the difference for all those deductions, credits, and exemptions.

Does it involve The Confidence Fairy?

That would be Fiat Money, and that is a whole different story.

Actually, the Confidence Fairy is the fiber in the Dynamic Scoring stool.....

 

[Hossfly]

Are you going to say or are you going to make me read through 45 posts of BS?

I will tag your name when I post the answer.

And I will tag you in a snow bank.

 

[mudwhistle]

Write a novel; you have a good start.

It's a work of fiction however.

It's a fact that the government allows for $1.2 trillion in exemptions, credits, and deductions each and every year.

That is not fiction. That is very real.

So, genius, tell us how they make up the difference.

By cutting spending, Einstein.
You operate on the assumption that the money we earn is better spent by a bloated, wasteful bureaucracy.
Obama has spent the last 8 years shoving thousands of new regulations down our throats. Regulations that increase the costs of government.
Just removing anything with Obama's signature on it will cut costs tremendously.

 

[g5000]

Wow. I am stunned none of the fiscal conservatives have provided the answer yet!

 

[g5000]

Write a novel; you have a good start.

It's a work of fiction however.

It's a fact that the government allows for $1.2 trillion in exemptions, credits, and deductions each and every year.

That is not fiction. That is very real.

So, genius, tell us how they make up the difference.

By cutting spending, Einstein.
You operate on the assumption that the money we earn is better spent by a bloated, wasteful bureaucracy.
Obama has spent the last 8 years shoving thousands of new regulations down our throats. Regulations that increase the costs of government.
Just removing anything with Obama's signature on it will cut costs tremendously.

I started out by cutting spending to the bone. Did you not read the OP? No more ObamaCare, food stamps, Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, FDA, etc.

I was afraid there would be some people with attention spans shorter than 120 characters who would get in over their heads. Looks like my fears were well-founded.

But even though you don't know it, you have actually given the answer as to what the government SHOULD do to solve this dilemma. However, the "I get to keep more of my own money!" rubes are in the way of doing that.

So what does the government actually do instead, in addition to borrowing?

 

[OKTexas]

Welcome to the future. The Democratic Party is dead. We are now a one party country.

The Republicans get right to work. They abolish ObamaCare, Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, food stamps, the FAA, the FDA, the USDA, the FCC, the IRS, and a whole basket of other agencies, but not the DoD.

No more Presidential trips to foreign capitals (a.k.a. “vacations”) to discuss matters of foreign policy with other world leaders.

No more welfare. No more leeches on the government tit. The government only pays for tanks, and ships, and fighter jets, and post offices.


Our country's GDP explodes! The economy grows at a clip of 7 percent each year.



Now meet the Smiths and the Joneses. Each household earns $50,000 a year. Thanks to the Republicans' drastic cuts in federal spending, their tax rate is only 15 percent.

15 percent!

Since together they earn $100,000, the Smiths and Joneses combined share of the federal budget is $15,000.

That means the Smiths pay $7,500 in taxes each year, and the Joneses pay $7,500 in taxes each year.



Life is good, God is great.



Oh, shit. Wait. I forgot something. I forgot about the government's massive behavioral control program that's still around. It has been a favorite of the Republicans for many decades.

The Smiths have a mortgage. The Republicans therefore reward the Smiths for borrowing a shit ton of money by giving them a $400 tax deduction.

The Joneses don't have a mortage. Maybe they are trying to save up money to buy a house outright so they don't have to borrow. Fuck you, Mr. and Mrs. Jones. The government does not like that kind of behavior.

The Smiths have two kids. The Republicans therefore reward the Smiths for having children by giving them another $400 deduction!

Mr. and Mrs. Jones don't have any kids living under their roof. Fuck you, Mr. and Mrs. Jones. The government does not like that kind of behavior.

The Smiths bought the right kind of refrigerator which the government wanted them to buy. They get ANOTHER deduction of $100.

Mr. and Mrs. Jones have the same old refrigerator they've owned for ten years. Fuck you, Mr. and Mrs. Jones. The government does not like that kind of behavior.

The Smiths bought a really cool car which the government wanted them to buy. So they get another deduction of $100.

Mr. and Mrs. Jones bought a car this year, too. But it isn't the kind of car the government wanted them to buy. Fuck you, Mr. and Mrs. Jones. The government does not appreciate you buying the wrong car.

So let's add up all those deductions the Smiths got. $400 + $400 + $100 + $100 = $1,000.

Instead of paying $7,500 in taxes, the Smiths pay $6,500.

Mr. and Mrs. Smith are over the moon with joy. “We are getting to keep more of our money! Woo hoo!”



Life is good, God is great.



Oh, shit. Wait. I forgot something.

The fair share of the Smiths and Joneses owe to the federal government for all those ships and tanks and planes and post offices is $15,000.

However, since the Smiths are paying $6,500 and the Joneses are paying $7,500, their combined tax revenues add up to only $14,000! The Smiths and the Joneses are $1,000 short!

Hmmmm...

And as we look around the country, we find tens and tens and tens of millions of other households claiming deductions, exemptions, and credits. And those all add up to a MASSIVE $1.2 trillion in decreased revenues!

Now if there is ONE THING the Republicans hate, it is a budget that is not balanced. They fucking HATE that. HAAAAATE!

So where are they going to find the money to make up the $1.2 trillion difference? Any time anyone talks about eliminating the tax expenditures the Smiths got, they get very defensive. "The Smiths are getting to keep more of their own money! It isn't the government's money! Grrrrr!"

So go ahead. Guess how the government solves this dilemma.

After everyone makes a guess, I will tell you what our government actually does in real life.

I will explain to you the amazing miracle the government pulls off. You won't believe it!



Not in the world where there is only the GOP. I mean what it does right now in this world in which we live right now.



Guess.

All that typing for screwed up math, 1,000 in deductions only saves 150 at a 15% rate.

 

[g5000]

Write a novel; you have a good start.

I actually am writing a book. And tax expenditures are one chapter.

I've given public speeches about this. And when I am done, the audience is really pissed at the government AND tax expenditures.

So go ahead. Guess what miracle the government does to make up the difference for all those deductions, credits, and exemptions.

Does it involve The Confidence Fairy?

That would be Fiat Money, and that is a whole different story.

Actually, the Confidence Fairy is the fiber in the Dynamic Scoring stool.....

Ah, dynamic scoring. Usually when people are talking about money and "confidence", they are talking about fiat money heavily depending on confidence.

 

[mudwhistle]

Write a novel; you have a good start.

It's a work of fiction however.

It's a fact that the government allows for $1.2 trillion in exemptions, credits, and deductions each and every year.

That is not fiction. That is very real.

So, genius, tell us how they make up the difference.

By cutting spending, Einstein.
You operate on the assumption that the money we earn is better spent by a bloated, wasteful bureaucracy.
Obama has spent the last 8 years shoving thousands of new regulations down our throats. Regulations that increase the costs of government.
Just removing anything with Obama's signature on it will cut costs tremendously.

I started out by cutting spending to the bone. Did you not read the OP? No more ObamaCare, food stamps, Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, FDA, etc.

But even though you don't know it, you have actually given the answer as to what the government SHOULD do to solve this dilemma. However, the "I get to keep more of my own money!" rubes are in the way of doing that.

So what does the government actually do instead, in addition to borrowing?

The cutting needs to begin by reversing the damage that Obama has caused through regulation.
An easy fix is getting rid of the benefit requirements for sub-contractors. Removing the minimum wage requirements Obozo instituted.
Something that is causing massive increases in health care costs is over regulation. Doctors spend all of their time in front of a computer filling out required forms instead of treating patients.
Trump needs the Treasury Secretary to go through the budget and find out where they can trim the fat by cutting costs to the government by contractors # one.

 

[g5000]

Welcome to the future. The Democratic Party is dead. We are now a one party country.

The Republicans get right to work. They abolish ObamaCare, Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, food stamps, the FAA, the FDA, the USDA, the FCC, the IRS, and a whole basket of other agencies, but not the DoD.

No more Presidential trips to foreign capitals (a.k.a. “vacations”) to discuss matters of foreign policy with other world leaders.

No more welfare. No more leeches on the government tit. The government only pays for tanks, and ships, and fighter jets, and post offices.


Our country's GDP explodes! The economy grows at a clip of 7 percent each year.



Now meet the Smiths and the Joneses. Each household earns $50,000 a year. Thanks to the Republicans' drastic cuts in federal spending, their tax rate is only 15 percent.

15 percent!

Since together they earn $100,000, the Smiths and Joneses combined share of the federal budget is $15,000.

That means the Smiths pay $7,500 in taxes each year, and the Joneses pay $7,500 in taxes each year.



Life is good, God is great.



Oh, shit. Wait. I forgot something. I forgot about the government's massive behavioral control program that's still around. It has been a favorite of the Republicans for many decades.

The Smiths have a mortgage. The Republicans therefore reward the Smiths for borrowing a shit ton of money by giving them a $400 tax deduction.

The Joneses don't have a mortage. Maybe they are trying to save up money to buy a house outright so they don't have to borrow. Fuck you, Mr. and Mrs. Jones. The government does not like that kind of behavior.

The Smiths have two kids. The Republicans therefore reward the Smiths for having children by giving them another $400 deduction!

Mr. and Mrs. Jones don't have any kids living under their roof. Fuck you, Mr. and Mrs. Jones. The government does not like that kind of behavior.

The Smiths bought the right kind of refrigerator which the government wanted them to buy. They get ANOTHER deduction of $100.

Mr. and Mrs. Jones have the same old refrigerator they've owned for ten years. Fuck you, Mr. and Mrs. Jones. The government does not like that kind of behavior.

The Smiths bought a really cool car which the government wanted them to buy. So they get another deduction of $100.

Mr. and Mrs. Jones bought a car this year, too. But it isn't the kind of car the government wanted them to buy. Fuck you, Mr. and Mrs. Jones. The government does not appreciate you buying the wrong car.

So let's add up all those deductions the Smiths got. $400 + $400 + $100 + $100 = $1,000.

Instead of paying $7,500 in taxes, the Smiths pay $6,500.

Mr. and Mrs. Smith are over the moon with joy. “We are getting to keep more of our money! Woo hoo!”



Life is good, God is great.



Oh, shit. Wait. I forgot something.

The fair share of the Smiths and Joneses owe to the federal government for all those ships and tanks and planes and post offices is $15,000.

However, since the Smiths are paying $6,500 and the Joneses are paying $7,500, their combined tax revenues add up to only $14,000! The Smiths and the Joneses are $1,000 short!

Hmmmm...

And as we look around the country, we find tens and tens and tens of millions of other households claiming deductions, exemptions, and credits. And those all add up to a MASSIVE $1.2 trillion in decreased revenues!

Now if there is ONE THING the Republicans hate, it is a budget that is not balanced. They fucking HATE that. HAAAAATE!

So where are they going to find the money to make up the $1.2 trillion difference? Any time anyone talks about eliminating the tax expenditures the Smiths got, they get very defensive. "The Smiths are getting to keep more of their own money! It isn't the government's money! Grrrrr!"

So go ahead. Guess how the government solves this dilemma.

After everyone makes a guess, I will tell you what our government actually does in real life.

I will explain to you the amazing miracle the government pulls off. You won't believe it!



Not in the world where there is only the GOP. I mean what it does right now in this world in which we live right now.



Guess.

All that typing for screwed up math, 1,000 in deductions only saves 150 at a 15% rate.

I simplified it for the allegory. You actually get a tax CREDIT for your kids. As well as for buying the right car, right refrigerator, etc.

For purposes of the actual impact tax expenditures have on revenues, the Smiths come out paying $1,000 less than they would have.

The actual figure today is a total of $1.2 trillion each year for the entire country.

So what miracle does the federal government perform to make up the difference?

 

[g5000]

Write a novel; you have a good start.

It's a work of fiction however.

It's a fact that the government allows for $1.2 trillion in exemptions, credits, and deductions each and every year.

That is not fiction. That is very real.

So, genius, tell us how they make up the difference.

By cutting spending, Einstein.
You operate on the assumption that the money we earn is better spent by a bloated, wasteful bureaucracy.
Obama has spent the last 8 years shoving thousands of new regulations down our throats. Regulations that increase the costs of government.
Just removing anything with Obama's signature on it will cut costs tremendously.

I started out by cutting spending to the bone. Did you not read the OP? No more ObamaCare, food stamps, Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, FDA, etc.

But even though you don't know it, you have actually given the answer as to what the government SHOULD do to solve this dilemma. However, the "I get to keep more of my own money!" rubes are in the way of doing that.

So what does the government actually do instead, in addition to borrowing?

The cutting needs to begin by reversing the damage that Obama has caused through regulation.
An easy fix is getting rid of the benefit requirements for sub-contractors. Removing the minimum wage requirements Obozo instituted.
Something that is causing massive increases in health care costs is over regulation. Doctors spend all of their time in front of a computer filling out required forms instead of treating patients.
Trump needs the Treasury Secretary to go through the budget and find out where they can trim the fat by cutting costs to the government by contractors # one.

In my allegory, they have already done that. There are no more regulators. No more food stamps. No more FDA. No more ObamaCare. No more, no more, no more.

All that's left is a tiny government which needs tanks, and planes, and ships and post offices. That's why the tax rate is just 15%.

So...how are they going to make up for the difference of the Smiths paying less taxes than before all those deductions, credits, and exemptions kicked in?

 

[g5000]

This miracle is something which our government actually does. It is not fiction. To make up the difference for the $1.2 trillion it gives back to the taxpayers, it performs a miracle.

I call it a miracle because it happens without anyone here noticing it! Now that is some SERIOUS magic.

 

[Doc1]

Poor g, he's just not happy unless he is trying prove to everyone how big his dick is.
Tell us g, do you take advantage of any of those "Revenue expenditures", or do you just look at the tax table and see how much you owe based on how much made and send that in?

 

[Missourian]

Write a novel; you have a good start.

It's a work of fiction however.

It's a fact that the government allows for $1.2 trillion in exemptions, credits, and deductions each and every year.

That is not fiction. That is very real.

So, genius, tell us how they make up the difference.

You get a deduction for buying a house. Demand for housing increases. New houses are built, old houses are remodeled, creating new jobs, new tax revenue from new workers, increased profits from home builders and real estate agents commissions, new revenue from expansion of existing and new businesses that retail new manufactured materials for building and remodeling, new revenue from wholesalers of manufactured materials for building and remodeling, new revenue from the providers of raw materials for the manufacturing of processed materials for building and remodeling, new revenue from the transportation of all materials from raw to manufactured to wholesaled to retailed to end consumer as just a fractional example of the many ancillary components of the economy, and thus tax revenue, that are boosted by this one tax policy.

 

[mudwhistle]

It's a work of fiction however.

It's a fact that the government allows for $1.2 trillion in exemptions, credits, and deductions each and every year.

That is not fiction. That is very real.

So, genius, tell us how they make up the difference.

By cutting spending, Einstein.
You operate on the assumption that the money we earn is better spent by a bloated, wasteful bureaucracy.
Obama has spent the last 8 years shoving thousands of new regulations down our throats. Regulations that increase the costs of government.
Just removing anything with Obama's signature on it will cut costs tremendously.

I started out by cutting spending to the bone. Did you not read the OP? No more ObamaCare, food stamps, Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, FDA, etc.

But even though you don't know it, you have actually given the answer as to what the government SHOULD do to solve this dilemma. However, the "I get to keep more of my own money!" rubes are in the way of doing that.

So what does the government actually do instead, in addition to borrowing?

The cutting needs to begin by reversing the damage that Obama has caused through regulation.
An easy fix is getting rid of the benefit requirements for sub-contractors. Removing the minimum wage requirements Obozo instituted.
Something that is causing massive increases in health care costs is over regulation. Doctors spend all of their time in front of a computer filling out required forms instead of treating patients.
Trump needs the Treasury Secretary to go through the budget and find out where they can trim the fat by cutting costs to the government by contractors # one.

In my allegory, they have already done that. There are no more regulators. No more food stamps. No more FDA. No more ObamaCare. No more, no more, no more.

All that's left is a tiny government which needs tanks, and planes, and ships and post offices. That's why the tax rate is just 15%.

So...how are they going to make up for the difference of the Smiths paying less taxes than before all those deductions, credits, and exemptions kicked in?

I don't think so. There is still food stamps and the FDA. There is still a massive cost to the taxpayer taking care of millions of illegals. Approx. $160 billion/yr.

But if you want to increase revenue....get out of the way of job growth.

 

[g5000]

Poor g, he's just not happy unless he is trying prove to everyone how big his dick is.
Tell us g, do you take advantage of any of those "Revenue expenditures", or do you just look at the tax table and see how much you owe based on how much made and send that in?

I would be a fool to leave that money on the table.

However, there is a way I can pay less taxes without taking any deductions, credits, or exemptions.

Ask Tom Coburn. Or Carly Fiorina. Or Ted Cruz. Or Rand Paul. Or Ronald Reagan. They all know the secret.

And so do you, but you let your leeching mindset prevent you from admitting it.

 

[OKTexas]

Welcome to the future. The Democratic Party is dead. We are now a one party country.

The Republicans get right to work. They abolish ObamaCare, Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, food stamps, the FAA, the FDA, the USDA, the FCC, the IRS, and a whole basket of other agencies, but not the DoD.

No more Presidential trips to foreign capitals (a.k.a. “vacations”) to discuss matters of foreign policy with other world leaders.

No more welfare. No more leeches on the government tit. The government only pays for tanks, and ships, and fighter jets, and post offices.


Our country's GDP explodes! The economy grows at a clip of 7 percent each year.



Now meet the Smiths and the Joneses. Each household earns $50,000 a year. Thanks to the Republicans' drastic cuts in federal spending, their tax rate is only 15 percent.

15 percent!

Since together they earn $100,000, the Smiths and Joneses combined share of the federal budget is $15,000.

That means the Smiths pay $7,500 in taxes each year, and the Joneses pay $7,500 in taxes each year.



Life is good, God is great.



Oh, shit. Wait. I forgot something. I forgot about the government's massive behavioral control program that's still around. It has been a favorite of the Republicans for many decades.

The Smiths have a mortgage. The Republicans therefore reward the Smiths for borrowing a shit ton of money by giving them a $400 tax deduction.

The Joneses don't have a mortage. Maybe they are trying to save up money to buy a house outright so they don't have to borrow. Fuck you, Mr. and Mrs. Jones. The government does not like that kind of behavior.

The Smiths have two kids. The Republicans therefore reward the Smiths for having children by giving them another $400 deduction!

Mr. and Mrs. Jones don't have any kids living under their roof. Fuck you, Mr. and Mrs. Jones. The government does not like that kind of behavior.

The Smiths bought the right kind of refrigerator which the government wanted them to buy. They get ANOTHER deduction of $100.

Mr. and Mrs. Jones have the same old refrigerator they've owned for ten years. Fuck you, Mr. and Mrs. Jones. The government does not like that kind of behavior.

The Smiths bought a really cool car which the government wanted them to buy. So they get another deduction of $100.

Mr. and Mrs. Jones bought a car this year, too. But it isn't the kind of car the government wanted them to buy. Fuck you, Mr. and Mrs. Jones. The government does not appreciate you buying the wrong car.

So let's add up all those deductions the Smiths got. $400 + $400 + $100 + $100 = $1,000.

Instead of paying $7,500 in taxes, the Smiths pay $6,500.

Mr. and Mrs. Smith are over the moon with joy. “We are getting to keep more of our money! Woo hoo!”



Life is good, God is great.



Oh, shit. Wait. I forgot something.

The fair share of the Smiths and Joneses owe to the federal government for all those ships and tanks and planes and post offices is $15,000.

However, since the Smiths are paying $6,500 and the Joneses are paying $7,500, their combined tax revenues add up to only $14,000! The Smiths and the Joneses are $1,000 short!

Hmmmm...

And as we look around the country, we find tens and tens and tens of millions of other households claiming deductions, exemptions, and credits. And those all add up to a MASSIVE $1.2 trillion in decreased revenues!

Now if there is ONE THING the Republicans hate, it is a budget that is not balanced. They fucking HATE that. HAAAAATE!

So where are they going to find the money to make up the $1.2 trillion difference? Any time anyone talks about eliminating the tax expenditures the Smiths got, they get very defensive. "The Smiths are getting to keep more of their own money! It isn't the government's money! Grrrrr!"

So go ahead. Guess how the government solves this dilemma.

After everyone makes a guess, I will tell you what our government actually does in real life.

I will explain to you the amazing miracle the government pulls off. You won't believe it!



Not in the world where there is only the GOP. I mean what it does right now in this world in which we live right now.



Guess.

All that typing for screwed up math, 1,000 in deductions only saves 150 at a 15% rate.

I simplified it for the allegory. You actually get a tax CREDIT for your kids. As well as for buying the right car, right refrigerator, etc.

For purposes of the actual impact tax expenditures have on revenues, the Smiths come out paying $1,000 less than they would have.

The actual figure today is a total of $1.2 trillion each year for the entire country.

So what miracle does the federal government perform to make up the difference?

Actually no, at the income level you described you only get standard deductions for minor children, not credits. And having only 1,000 in deductions the Smiths would only save 150.

 

[g5000]

Write a novel; you have a good start.

It's a work of fiction however.

It's a fact that the government allows for $1.2 trillion in exemptions, credits, and deductions each and every year.

That is not fiction. That is very real.

So, genius, tell us how they make up the difference.

You get a deduction for buying a house. Demand for housing increases. New houses are built, old houses are remodeled, creating new jobs, new tax revenue from new workers, increased profits from home builders and real estate agents commissions, new revenue from expansion of existing and new businesses that retail new manufactured materials for building and remodeling, new revenue from wholesalers of manufactured materials for building and remodeling, new revenue from the providers of raw materials for the manufacturing of processed materials for building and remodeling, new revenue from the transportation of all materials from raw to manufactured to wholesaled to retailed to end consumer as just a fractional example of the many ancillary components of the economy, and thus tax revenue, that are boosted by this one tax policy.

That's actually wrong. I will prove it is wrong later in the Fun Facts portion of this topic after I reveal the miracle.

And you realize you just demanded government intervention in the housing market, right?

You are obviously not a conservative.