The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Nakba lives.

Losers gotta lose.

 

[Sixties Fan]

‘I am in the West, but my heart is in the East, ‘ lamented the great medieval poet Yehuda Halevi (1100 – 1148). Writing at a time when Jews were caught up in a great power struggle between Islam and Chrstianity, Halevi dreamt of the resurrection of the Jewish nation. During the 12th, 13th and 14th centuries, prominent rabbis Maimonides, Nahmanides and Ishtori Haparhi attempted to return to Eretz Israel. They were followed by Rabbi Yosef Caro, who developed the Shulhan Arukh in Safed, Rabbis Reuveni and Molho in the 16th century and the Rishonim between the 17th and 19th centuries. In the 18th century the Moroccan rabbi Haim Benattar set up an important yeshiva.

Theodore Herzl’s father was said to have been influenced by the sermons of Yehuda Bibas (1789 – 1852) in the Balkans. Marco Yosef Baruch (1872 – 99) of Istanbul was known as the Sephardi Herzl.

Sephardi figures bought and developed land in Eretz Israel well before modern Zionism. Fugitives from the Spanish Inquisition Doña Graciaand her nephew Yosef Hanasi re-established the Jewish community of Tiberias in the 16th century. Rav Yehuda Halevi Meragusa from Sarajevo (1840 – 79) owned orchards in Jaffa. Sir Moses Montefiore established the first neighbourhood outside the city walls of Jerusalem. Rav David Bensimon built Mahane Israel, the second. Adolphe Cremieux, president of the Alliance Israelite Universelle, set up the agricultural school of Mikve Israel., while the bankers Jacob and Haim Valero helped develop modern cities in the Old Yishuv. The British consul Haim Amzallag bought land in Petah Tikva and Rishon Letzion. Yosef Bey Navon created the Jaffa- Jerusalem railway.

Abraham Moyal, merchant, Alliance delegate, and supervisor of the Rothschild project, was an important figure in Hovevei Zion together with Pinsker and Wissotsky.

Naturally, Jews made aliya for practical reasons when conflict between Algerian Muslims and the French in the 19th century led to repression of the Jewish community. The Chelouche family was not only active in building the new Jaffa suburb of Neve Tsedek, but developed the coastline down to Gaza. The Abbo family founded the first settlements in the Galilee.

The first mass wave of immigration came from Yemen in 1881 – a year before the first Aliya from Russia.

Juifs heureux en terres d’islam ? L’éclairage de l’histoire et les enjeux du moment - Dialogia

Sur internet | 13 février 2022 Via la plateforme ZOOM La question de l'identité et de l'histoire des Juifs originaires du monde arabo-musulman s'est retrouvée au cœur de l'actualité politique et du débat idéologique en France ces derniers mois. Je fais référence à une exposition de l'Institut...

dialogia.co.il

(full article online)

Pre-19th century Sephardi forerunners of Zionism – Point of No Return

www.jewishrefugees.org.uk

 

[Sixties Fan]

The Ashkenazi synagogue in Cairo built in 1894 by Ashkenazi refugees from pogroms in Ukraine, Poland and Romania.


In April and May 1881, terrible pogroms erupted in Elisavetgrad, the Jewish quarter of Kyiv, Chipola, Ananiev, Vasilkiv and Konotop. There were also pogroms in Poland and Romania.

Some Ashkenazi families moved to Egypt. From 1865, the Ashkenazim of Cairo maintained a separate communal organisation from the dominant Sephardim and Mizrahim. They were concentrated in the Darb al-Barabira quarter. in 1917 the Ashkenazi population was swollen by the arrival of 10,000 Ashkenazim chased out of Palestine by the Ottoman governor Jamal Pasha.

Compiling a list of Egyptian-Jewish surnames, an Israeli diplomat, Jacob Rosen, was surprised to find many Ashkenazi names. He estimated that the Ashkenazim comprised 20 percent of the Jewish community in the 1930s and 40s. Many intermarried with the local Sephardim.

In 1894, the Ashkenazi synagogue was built in Cairo. It was damaged in riots in 1945 but was restored in 1950.

A few families also moved to Syria and Lebanon. A group of Yiddish-speaking Ashkenazim arrived in Beirut in the 19th century.

Historian, author and expert on Lebanese Jewry Nagi Georges Zeidan says that this community intermarried with the Jews of Beirut but continued to retain an Eastern European accent in Hebrew. In time their Yiddish names were replaced with Sephardi ones.

Researching Lebanese-Jewish surnames, Zeidan found at least eight Ashkenazi names: Rosenthal, Leibowitz, Kaminsky, Lamen from Huysatin, Levy and Pikovsky from the city of Odessa, and Kugel from Simferopol. The Lichtman family even produced a Chief rabbi for Lebanon, Ben Zion Lichtman. He was born in 1892 in the Ukrainian town of Brajiow.

Zeidan points out that following the Crimean War in 1853 between Russia and Ottoman Turkey, several Ashkenazi families from Eastern Europe settled in Baghdad.

(full article online)

Jews fled Ukrainian pogroms for Egypt and the Levant – Point of No Return

www.jewishrefugees.org.uk

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Nakba and the 1948 war.

Most people believe that the Nakba and the 1948 war were one in the same. As the story goes, upon Israel's declaration of independence (May 15. 1948) five Arab armies attacked Israel. The Arabs lost that war and the result was 750,000 Palestinian refugees and Israel won 78% of Palestinian land.

None of this is true. Five Arab armies entered Palestine. Israel never declared its borders. No Arab army crossed a border into Israel. The Arab armies did not lose that war. The fighting stopped when the UN Security Council called for an armistice. An armistice ends the fighting without calling winners or losers. Israel cannot win Palestinian land from Palestine's neighbors who did not lose that war. It was not their land to lose.

The Nakba, on the other hand, began in December of 1947 when Zionist gangs began attacking and expelling Palestinian civilians from their homes. About 300,000 Palestinians became refugees before any Arab army entered Palestine. This attack on the Palestinians has never stopped.

The Nakba and the 1948 war are two separate events.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Nakba and the 1948 war.

Most people believe that the Nakba and the 1948 war were one in the same. As the story goes, upon Israel's declaration of independence (May 15. 1948) five Arab armies attacked Israel. The Arabs lost that war and the result was 750,000 Palestinian refugees and Israel won 78% of Palestinian land.

None of this is true. Five Arab armies entered Palestine. Israel never declared its borders. No Arab army crossed a border into Israel. The Arab armies did not lose that war. The fighting stopped when the UN Security Council called for an armistice. An armistice ends the fighting without calling winners or losers. Israel cannot win Palestinian land from Palestine's neighbors who did not lose that war. It was not their land to lose.

The Nakba, on the other hand, began in December of 1947 when Zionist gangs began attacking and expelling Palestinian civilians from their homes. About 300,000 Palestinians became refugees before any Arab army entered Palestine. This attack on the Palestinians has never stopped.

The Nakba and the 1948 war are two separate events.

The Arabs lost that war and the result was 750,000 Palestinian refugees and Israel won 78% of Palestinian land.

The Palestinians had no land to lose.

The Arab armies did not lose that war.

Israel was bigger after the war than before. The Arab armies did not win that war.

The fighting stopped when the UN Security Council called for an armistice. An armistice ends the fighting without calling winners or losers.

Not calling the Arabs losers must have made them feel better for their loss.

Israel cannot win Palestinian land from Palestine's neighbors who did not lose that war.

Correct. The Arab losers did not lose any of their land.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You are going to refute my post with balderdash?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Link?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Link?

Pick one of my points and refute it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Pick one of my points and refute it.

I did....right here.

The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

The Nakba lives. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Losers gotta lose.

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[P F Tinmore]

I did....right here.

The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

The Nakba lives. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Losers gotta lose.

www.usmessageboard.com

The Arabs lost that war and the result was 750,000 Palestinian refugees and Israel won 78% of Palestinian land.

The Palestinians had no land to lose.

You said it. That doesn't prove anything.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You said it. That doesn't prove anything.

Pick one of my points and refute it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Pick one of my points and refute it.

You didn't give me anything to refute.

Just some unsubstantiated Israeli talking points.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You didn't give me anything to refute.

What, you're the only one who gets to do that?

Just some unsubstantiated Israeli talking points.

Still better than your unsubstantiated Palestinian talking points.

 

[P F Tinmore]

What, you're the only one who gets to do that?

Just some unsubstantiated Israeli talking points.

Still better than your unsubstantiated Palestinian talking points.

Well then, name them. Don't be shy.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well then, name them. Don't be shy.

The Arabs lost that war and the result was 750,000 Palestinian refugees and Israel won 78% of Palestinian land.

Why do you feel Palestinians had any land?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Arabs lost that war and the result was 750,000 Palestinian refugees and Israel won 78% of Palestinian land.

Why do you feel Palestinians had any land?

Good question. Put aside the UN and the Treaty of Lausanne for a moment. There were hundreds upon hundreds of villages in Palestine. Not to mention the cities and towns. The existence of virtually all of them predate the Ottoman Empire. Many could be traced back hundreds or a thousand years or more.

Why would anyone even question ownership?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Good question. Put aside the UN and the Treaty of Lausanne for a moment. There were hundreds upon hundreds of villages in Palestine. Not to mention the cities and towns. The existence of virtually all of them predate the Ottoman Empire. Many could be traced back hundreds or a thousand years or more.

Why would anyone even question ownership?

Their landlord loses a war, why do they own anything?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Their landlord loses a war, why do they own anything?

So, who was the landlord?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So, who was the landlord?

The Ottoman Empire, of course.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Ottoman Empire, of course.

These cities, towns, and villages predate the Ottoman Empire.