The North Pole could melt this year

[editec]

CO2 is a TRACE component of our atmosphere. Even a DOUBLING of CO2 still makes it a TRACE component.

We have endured the coldest two winters, back to back in 30 years in the US and in 42 years in China. 2005 saw the coldest winter in recorded history in eastern Europe and Russia, even colder than the famous winter of 1941-1942 that stopped Hitler in his tracks.

C02 is about 4% of the atmosphere.

Global warming is a myth.

Let's hope you're right as it pertains to right now

But since we know that the climate has changed many times, sometimes getting warmer, sometimes getting colder, suggesting that global warming is a myth is simply incorrect

As to what is causing the warming trend that is being reported now?

The case is still out on that one, I think.

 

[Chris]

Delayed effect of pre-1940 warming? You really live in a fantasy world. 8 of the 10 hottest years on record have occurred in the last 12 years. The amount of CO2 we are putting into the atmosphere has accelerated in the last 20 years as China and India become industrialized.

It takes a lot of time to melt the ice? Thanks for proving my point. We will have melted the North Pole in a few short years, and the North Pole has been frozen for thousands of years.

 

[sealybobo]

North Pole could be ice-free this summer, scientists say

gop said the economy was strong I jan 08. why do we listen to them?

they said iraq was going great too until it was too late to change course. see the pattern?

 

[Chris]

North Pole could be ice-free this summer, scientists say

gop said the economy was strong I jan 08. why do we listen to them?

they said iraq was going great too until it was too late to change course. see the pattern?

Yes, they are liars.

 

[Chris]

Global Warming's Twin Evil: Wildfires and Drought

By Dr. Reese Halter, AlterNet. Posted June 30, 2008.



The 850 fires burning in California alone should be a wake up call that we're unprepared for rapid climate change.

The hundreds of fires hitting California right now are a wake-up call to both government and California residents: we're unprepared for a rapid climate change crackling at our doorstep.

The facts are unequivocal, and point to a troubling future ahead. Over 850 fires, scorching some 200,000 acres, have set a new 2008 record for early-season wildfires in California. And from March to May precipitation has been the lowest since the inception of record keeping in 1894. In California as well as throughout the West, mountain snowmelts are occurring earlier, and winter storms are arriving later, extending the fire season by at least several weeks.

On June 5, 2008 Governor Schwarzenegger declared a state-wide drought. Droughts fuel wildfires. Across western North America global warming has caused prolonged droughts -- some areas are now entering their 13th year -- and warmer temperatures. These are the same kind of conditions that led to the mega fires of 2003 and 2007.

What's more, in California and throughout the West, millions of acres of drought have created tinder-dry kindling through weakened forests that have been ravaged by billions of indigenous bark beetles and disease. Currently, there is no serious policy being implemented to clear out these dead trees, fireproof communities and inform residents of a plan of action.

Why is this happening?

A mismanaged forest policy has suppressed the natural occurrence of fire, and as a result, many of our California forests are overstocked, and now tinder dry. When lightning strikes occur in combination with drought, mega-fires can't be far away.

Meanwhile, global warming is known to fuel mega-wildfires, particularly in the northern Rocky Mountains. In addition, over the past two decades mountain ecosystems across the West ranging from 5,300 to more than 8,000 feet above sea level have had the largest increase in big fires. It is these mountain ecosystems that are important for retaining snowfall and releasing it slowly into reservoirs. There are at least 350,000 homes in California that are on the urban/wildland interface and they remain at high risk to ever-increasing threat of wildfires.

Global warming is also significantly impacting our security by impinging upon our water supply. Even though average snowfalls in California from December to February of 2008 were recorded, by May state-wide water reservoirs that feed, drive and grow the state's economy -- the eighth mightiest on the planet -- were only slightly above 53 percent of their respective capacities.

The drought from March to May along with warmer temperatures evaporated at least 30 percent of the Sierra Nevada snowpack -- which accounts for the brunt of California's annual water supply -- directly into the air by-passing the solid (ice) to liquid (water) phase.

While the California House and Senate continue to debate where the state will secure more water for our future, we are running out of time.

Across the state the moisture content of grasses and brush are near or at 5 percent (usually at this time of year they should be around 20 percent) -- conditions mimicking tinder-dryness usually found in October -- at the end of the fire season.

What can Californians do at the state and local level? The state needs to mobilize its massive prison population to help thin out the overstocked forests and fire-proof the communities most at risk. The state needs to significantly beef-up its fire protection and emergency system because, like it or not, wildfires burning with greater ferocity and higher intensities and more prolonged droughts are on their way. At the local level, every home-owner can help removing dead trees, excessive brush, overhanging vegetation on roofs and keeping fuel cans at least 100 feet from homes. There's no room for carelessness, whether it's making an illegal campfire, lighting firecrackers this 4th of July or tossing lit cigarettes out a car window. We need to come together to solve this problem before anyone else loses a home, or even a life.

 

[politicsezine]

CO2 has a very dramatic effect on temperatures in the atmosphere.

If you go into the upper atmosphere there is different levels of gases based on their atomic weight. There are basically three stages of greenhouse gas layers: CO2, methane and nitrous oxide. At each greenhouse gas layer the temperature in the atmosphere drops dramatically compared to the layer below it. This is how scientists know greenhouse gases are trapping heat inside (plus other experiments proving it).

The more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the THICKER the layer becomes, kind of like having thicker insulation in your home.

CO2, which makes up 72% of the greenhouse gases is the biggest culprit and its presence in the atmosphere has doubled over the last 50+ years, and thus the CO2 layer in the atmosphere has doubled in size.

Twice the insulation means that the Earth is getting progressively warmer each year, and increasing CO2 levels means it will only get hotter faster.

The fastest way to cut our CO2 emissions? Put a stop to burning coal in coal electricity plants and factories. Invest in nuclear and green alternatives. That alone would cut CO2 by 30%.

Sources of Greenhouse Gases by Sector

 

[sealybobo]

Well, I showed you where droughts aren't on the rise,

do you believe your own BS or are you a corporation that knows it is doing wrong but doesn't want to admit it because then it will dip into your profits?

only 2 choices. I think you are a sheeple swallowing what you are being told. spin. I know 10 people that would make you sound foolish. i'm no expert, but i've hearf enough to know you are just spinning.

even newt admitted this.

 

[Chris]

CO2 has a very dramatic effect on temperatures in the atmosphere.

If you go into the upper atmosphere there is different levels of gases based on their atomic weight. There are basically three stages of greenhouse gas layers: CO2, methane and nitrous oxide. At each greenhouse gas layer the temperature in the atmosphere drops dramatically compared to the layer below it. This is how scientists know greenhouse gases are trapping heat inside (plus other experiments proving it).

The more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the THICKER the layer becomes, kind of like having thicker insulation in your home.

CO2, which makes up 72% of the greenhouse gases is the biggest culprit and its presence in the atmosphere has doubled over the last 50+ years, and thus the CO2 layer in the atmosphere has doubled in size.

Twice the insulation means that the Earth is getting progressively warmer each year, and increasing CO2 levels means it will only get hotter faster.

The fastest way to cut our CO2 emissions? Put a stop to burning coal in coal electricity plants and factories. Invest in nuclear and green alternatives. That alone would cut CO2 by 30%.

Sources of Greenhouse Gases by Sector

You are right. Coal is the issue not cars.

But a bigger problem is that when the permafrost in the arctic melts, methane will be released, and methane is 20 times more powerful as a greenhouse gas than CO2. The effects we are seeing now will be accelerated at that point.

 

[TopGunna]

C02 is about 4% of the atmosphere.



Let's hope you're right as it pertains to right now

But since we know that the climate has changed many times, sometimes getting warmer, sometimes getting colder, suggesting that global warming is a myth is simply incorrect

As to what is causing the warming trend that is being reported now?

The case is still out on that one, I think.

CO2 is measured in parts per million, and atmospheric CO2 makes up 384 parts per million.

That's .038%, not 4%.

 

[TopGunna]

CO2 has a very dramatic effect on temperatures in the atmosphere.

If you go into the upper atmosphere there is different levels of gases based on their atomic weight. There are basically three stages of greenhouse gas layers: CO2, methane and nitrous oxide. At each greenhouse gas layer the temperature in the atmosphere drops dramatically compared to the layer below it. This is how scientists know greenhouse gases are trapping heat inside (plus other experiments proving it).

The more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the THICKER the layer becomes, kind of like having thicker insulation in your home.

CO2, which makes up 72% of the greenhouse gases is the biggest culprit and its presence in the atmosphere has doubled over the last 50+ years, and thus the CO2 layer in the atmosphere has doubled in size.

Twice the insulation means that the Earth is getting progressively warmer each year, and increasing CO2 levels means it will only get hotter faster.

The fastest way to cut our CO2 emissions? Put a stop to burning coal in coal electricity plants and factories. Invest in nuclear and green alternatives. That alone would cut CO2 by 30%.

Sources of Greenhouse Gases by Sector

CO2 only absorbs select frequencies of infrared radation. As you increase atmospheric concentrations of CO2, each increment traps less and less heat until it levels off logarithmically.

It's akin to painting a red room with white paint. The first coat of paint is effective, but the room will appear pinkish. A second coat of paint has a whitening effect as well, but at some point an extra coat of paint won't affect the color of the room whatsoever. Such is the case with CO2 - each additional increment has a diminishing return.

 

[BrianH]

Well, I showed you where droughts aren't on the rise,

do you believe your own BS or are you a corporation that knows it is doing wrong but doesn't want to admit it because then it will dip into your profits?

only 2 choices. I think you are a sheeple swallowing what you are being told. spin. I know 10 people that would make you sound foolish. i'm no expert, but i've hearf enough to know you are just spinning.

even newt admitted this.

Tell us something we don't know. What is it with you? You always "know" someone or people that have answer. Which means that you don't know crap, and all you do know is crap you've "swallowed" what you're being told with SPIN....

 

[TopGunna]

CO2 has a very dramatic effect on temperatures in the atmosphere.

If you go into the upper atmosphere there is different levels of gases based on their atomic weight. There are basically three stages of greenhouse gas layers: CO2, methane and nitrous oxide. At each greenhouse gas layer the temperature in the atmosphere drops dramatically compared to the layer below it. This is how scientists know greenhouse gases are trapping heat inside (plus other experiments proving it).

The more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the THICKER the layer becomes, kind of like having thicker insulation in your home.

CO2, which makes up 72% of the greenhouse gases is the biggest culprit and its presence in the atmosphere has doubled over the last 50+ years, and thus the CO2 layer in the atmosphere has doubled in size.

Twice the insulation means that the Earth is getting progressively warmer each year, and increasing CO2 levels means it will only get hotter faster.

The fastest way to cut our CO2 emissions? Put a stop to burning coal in coal electricity plants and factories. Invest in nuclear and green alternatives. That alone would cut CO2 by 30%.

Sources of Greenhouse Gases by Sector

Wow, in my rush to post between meetings, I overlooked a wealth of errors!

There has been no doubling of atmospheric CO2. It has increased from a pre-industrial level of 280 PPM to 384 PPM in the present.

Increasing CO2 levels means it will only get hotter faster? Then why, praytell, have temperatures dropped since 1998 as CO2 production has continued to increase? Is another forcing masking the warming effect of CO2 such that man's impact is undetectable from the regular noise of climate fluctuation?

 

[Foxfyre]

Wow, in my rush to post between meetings, I overlooked a wealth of errors!

There has been no doubling of atmospheric CO2. It has increased from a pre-industrial level of 280 PPM to 384 PPM in the present.

Increasing CO2 levels means it will only get hotter faster? Then why, praytell, have temperatures dropped since 1998 as CO2 production has continued to increase? Is another forcing masking the warming effect of CO2 such that man's impact is undetectable from the regular noise of climate fluctuation?

It's the same theory that has Harry Reid opposing new oil and gas exploration because using these things put pollutants into our soil, water, and air that 'make people sick'--asthma, allergies, other maladies, etc. He blows it off when it is pointed out that such pollutants have been dramatically reduced everywhere to almost non-existant in some areas while cases of asthma, allergies, other maladies have continued to significantly increase.

Now most people would say that there is no correlation to make to support that oil and gas pollution is 'making people sick', but the true religionist seem to have highly resistant blinders to such logic. And so do the AGW religionists who seem to be able to simply not see any evidence suggesting that CO2 isn't the driving force behind global warming and what miniscule amount we produce is probably having negligible effect on climate change.

 

[Chris]

It's the same theory that has Harry Reid opposing new oil and gas exploration because using these things put pollutants into our soil, water, and air that 'make people sick'--asthma, allergies, other maladies, etc. He blows it off when it is pointed out that such pollutants have been dramatically reduced everywhere to almost non-existant in some areas while cases of asthma, allergies, other maladies have continued to significantly increase.

Now most people would say that there is no correlation to make to support that oil and gas pollution is 'making people sick', but the true religionist seem to have highly resistant blinders to such logic. And so do the AGW religionists who seem to be able to simply not see any evidence suggesting that CO2 isn't the driving force behind global warming and what miniscule amount we produce is probably having negligible effect on climate change.

Miniscule amount? We have increased the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere by one third in the last 200 years. We are adding 8 billion metric tons of CO2 each year, and the rate of production is increasing.

 

[BrianH]

Kirk, I think you need to debate with TopGunna since he's been pounding you with evidence and fact that support our opinions and you've continued to avoid even acknowledging his posts....And you repeating the 800 billion bit is not helping your case...

 

[BrianH]

CO2 has a very dramatic effect on temperatures in the atmosphere.

If you go into the upper atmosphere there is different levels of gases based on their atomic weight. There are basically three stages of greenhouse gas layers: CO2, methane and nitrous oxide. At each greenhouse gas layer the temperature in the atmosphere drops dramatically compared to the layer below it. This is how scientists know greenhouse gases are trapping heat inside (plus other experiments proving it).

The more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the THICKER the layer becomes, kind of like having thicker insulation in your home.

CO2, which makes up 72% of the greenhouse gases is the biggest culprit and its presence in the atmosphere has doubled over the last 50+ years, and thus the CO2 layer in the atmosphere has doubled in size.

Twice the insulation means that the Earth is getting progressively warmer each year, and increasing CO2 levels means it will only get hotter faster.

The fastest way to cut our CO2 emissions? Put a stop to burning coal in coal electricity plants and factories. Invest in nuclear and green alternatives. That alone would cut CO2 by 30%.

Sources of Greenhouse Gases by Sector

And we should also stop mammals from breathing, farting, talking, etc......

CO2 makes up 72% of the green house gases that are in the atmostphere, this does not mean that CO2 makes up 72% of the atmosphere. WATOR VAPOR makes up way more of the atmostphere than CO2 does and has a worse effect when it comes to abosorbing and trapping heat from the sun. I will agree that humans need to quit polluting the air and to do more to stop this, but the politicized, money-making CO2 scare is exactly that...a scare designed to SELL. Al Gore flew in his private fuel buring jet to pick up his Nobel Peace Prize for talking about CO2 emissions and Global Warming....he's really taking steps to help...

This is the same reason why you can experience 90 degrees in Kansas and 90 degrees on the Texas Coast, and the Texas Coast will feel like 100 degrees because of the humidity. The moisture in the air is soaking up more heat. It works the opposite as well. You experience 40 degrees on the Texas Coast and 40 degrees in Colorado, the 40 degrees at the Texas Coast feels colder because of the humidity. I've experienced this personally. At 40 degrees in CO, I could walk around in shorts and a t-shirt all day long without a problem, but at home, don't even think about it...you'll freeze your balls off. Wator vapor has a bigger effect.

 

[Chris]

Kirk, I think you need to debate with TopGunna since he's been pounding you with evidence and fact that support our opinions and you've continued to avoid even acknowledging his posts....And you repeating the 800 billion bit is not helping your case...

Evidence? The North Pole has almost melted in a scant 50 years. That is evidence. CO2 has risen by one third in the last 200 years. That is evidence. CO2 is at its highest level in 600,000 years. That is evidence. We are putting 8 billion metric tons of CO2 in the atmosphere every year and that figure is rising. That is evidence.

 

[Chris]

And we should also stop mammals from breathing, farting, talking, etc......

CO2 makes up 72% of the green house gases that are in the atmostphere, this does not mean that CO2 makes up 72% of the atmosphere. WATOR VAPOR makes up way more of the atmostphere than CO2 does and has a worse effect when it comes to abosorbing and trapping heat from the sun. I will agree that humans need to quit polluting the air and to do more to stop this, but the politicized, money-making CO2 scare is exactly that...a scare designed to SELL. Al Gore flew in his private fuel buring jet to pick up his Nobel Peace Prize for talking about CO2 emissions and Global Warming....he's really taking steps to help...

This is the same reason why you can experience 90 degrees in Kansas and 90 degrees on the Texas Coast, and the Texas Coast will feel like 100 degrees because of the humidity. The moisture in the air is soaking up more heat. It works the opposite as well. You experience 40 degrees on the Texas Coast and 40 degrees in Colorado, the 40 degrees at the Texas Coast feels colder because of the humidity. I've experienced this personally. At 40 degrees in CO, I could walk around in shorts and a t-shirt all day long without a problem, but at home, don't even think about it...you'll freeze your balls off. Wator vapor has a bigger effect.

Why is the North Pole melting so quickly?

 

[Shogun]

So, did we ever end up saving the whales?

 

[TopGunna]

Evidence? The North Pole has almost melted in a scant 50 years. That is evidence. CO2 has risen by one third in the last 200 years. That is evidence. CO2 is at its highest level in 600,000 years. That is evidence. We are putting 8 billion metric tons of CO2 in the atmosphere every year and that figure is rising. That is evidence.

Evidence... of what? Yes there is a lot of CO2 in the atmosphere, what in the world does that prove?