The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[Vegasgiants]

The Japanese actually did try to go through the Swiss. And the Swedes. And when both of them refused to present their proposal for an armistice (not a surrender - there is a huge difference between the two) they both refused.

Japan then went to their last hope, the Soviets. Their own ambassador told them they had to get serious, and the Soviets knew that their proposal never had a chance of being accepted. So they simply strung them along until they themselves declared war against them.

All anybody has to do is look at the meetings of the Imperial Cabinet prior to, the days of the bombings, and afterwards. Those were the only people in the nation with the power to surrender. And until after the second bomb and the invasion of the Soviet Union, they were still determined to continue no matter what the cost.

Actually only the emperor could surrender. And he only wanted one thing....no trials for the imperial family. We could have easily given them that.....because that is exactly what we did after the war.


But truman did not want a quick surrender. He had a message he wanted to give russia....that the US was now the biggest dog on the block

So he used the bombs

 

[Vegasgiants]

The strategic bombing survey was a product of the bomber mafia. It also concluded that Nazi Germany would have been defeated by aerial bombing despite the evidence of four years of war that proved otherwise.

I see. And I suppose all the quotes of the military generals that said the bomb was not needed was also a product of this mafia?


This is quite a conspiracy

 

[there4eyeM]

It is not an entire condemnation of America to suggest that the use of the atomic bombs was excessive. As stated, given the thinking of the time, using these weapons was a simple extension of thought and policy. That thinking, itself, was shortsighted. The real significance of developing such instruments was not understood.
It is surprising how sensitive posters are about discussing something so far in the past.

 

[there4eyeM]

Actually only the emperor could surrender. And he only wanted one thing....no trials for the imperial family. We could have easily given them that.....because that is exactly what we did after the war.


But truman did not want a quick surrender. He had a message he wanted to give russia....that the US was now the biggest dog on the block

So he used the bombs

In that case, it would have been much more impressive to have bombed Japanese military bases in Manchuria, close enough for "Joe" to see from his back porch.

 

[Vegasgiants]

In that case, it would have been much more impressive to have bombed Japanese military bases in Manchuria, close enough for "Joe" to see from his back porch.

I think Russia got the message

Those bombs were the first attack of the cold war

 

[Open Bolt]

It's unfortunate that some people come to the history forum, but are clearly unwilling if not unable to actually discuss history.

Your tendency to do this is indeed unfortunate.

Even worse is your resort to personal attacks whenever the real historians challenge your falsehoods.

The study of history involves more than just repeating comfortable narratives like some kind of tribal chant.

If you refer to your use of personal attacks in addition to repeating your falsehoods, then no. Your personal attacks are not history either.

Those without the courage to look directly at the facts of history really should go somewhere else for empty self-affirmation. Leave it to the adults to actually discuss history.

So when are you leaving?

 

[Open Bolt]

Japan was contained
Their Navy was neutralized and they lacked the pilots to challenge our air superiority
But we had THE BOMB
The ability to end the war under our terms.
The question is……did those terms need to be three days between bombs

No. They didn't need to be three days apart.

The wait between bombs should have been much less than three days.

What we should have done is never made Little Boy, and instead made a bunch of composite implosion cores with that uranium.

Then we should have started off by nuking Hiroshima. Then a day later Kyoto (let Stimson whine). Then a day later Kokura Arsenal. Then a day later Yokohama (which we should have spared conventional bombing). Then a day later we should have topped it off by simultaneously bombing Nagasaki and Niigata at the same moment.

 

[Unkotare]

...
So when are you leaving?

Why would I leave, Junior? You never did tell me how many years you've been teaching History. Oh, and did you notice all the many, many references, links, and direct quotes I have posted on this topic?

 

[Open Bolt]

It is not an entire condemnation of America to suggest that the use of the atomic bombs was excessive.

It doesn't have to be an entire condemnation of America. It is still wrong to falsely accuse America of imaginary wrongdoing.

The atomic bombs were not excessive in any way whatsoever.

As stated, given the thinking of the time, using these weapons was a simple extension of thought and policy. That thinking, itself, was shortsighted.

No it wasn't. They put lots of thought into how to use the atomic bombs.

The real significance of developing such instruments was not understood.

Yes it was. Why do you think they insisted on destroying an entire city in the very first use, without giving the world any warning that such an attack was coming?

They wanted to be sure that everyone immediately understood the power of these weapons so that the world would take them seriously.

It is surprising how sensitive posters are about discussing something so far in the past.

Americans don't like it when people lie about America.

 

[Open Bolt]

Why would I leave,

Because you said that hacks who know nothing about history should leave, and you are a hack who knows nothing of history.

Junior?

Given your vast and total ignorance of this subject, you are the only junior here.

You never did tell me how many years you've been teaching History.

You lack the intelligence to understand this, but other people's private lives are none of your business.

Oh, and did you notice all the many, many references, links, and direct quotes I have posted on this topic?

You have backed up none of your personal attacks against me.

You have also not backed up your claims about Japan being willing to surrender before the atomic bombs were dropped.

 

[Open Bolt]

I dont care

Everyone knows.

It's why you lie about the end of the war all the time.

Actually only the emperor could surrender. And he only wanted one thing....no trials for the imperial family. We could have easily given them that.....because that is exactly what we did after the war.

Wrong again.

What the Emperor wanted was to end the war in a draw (much like the Korean War later ended).

We never gave them any such thing.

But truman did not want a quick surrender.

Yes he did.

He had a message he wanted to give russia....that the US was now the biggest dog on the block

The US was not depending on Japan to deliver that message. We would have been willing to wait and use nukes in the next war.

But in retrospect it is a very good thing that we got to nuke Japan. Had we waited until we had more nukes and Russia had their own nukes, once all the nukes started flying it would have been the end of humanity.

So he used the bombs

The reason why Japan was nuked was because of Japan. They were still refusing to surrender.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Everyone knows.

It's why you lie about the end of the war all the time.



Wrong again.

What the Emperor wanted was to end the war in a draw (much like the Korean War later ended).

We never gave them any such thing.



Yes he did.



The US was not depending on Japan to deliver that message. We would have been willing to wait and use nukes in the next war.

But in retrospect it is a very good thing that we got to nuke Japan. Had we waited until we had more nukes and Russia had their own nukes, once all the nukes started flying it would have been the end of humanity.



The reason why Japan was nuked was because of Japan. They were still refusing to surrender.

Still dont care

 

[gipper]

Actually only the emperor could surrender. And he only wanted one thing....no trials for the imperial family. We could have easily given them that.....because that is exactly what we did after the war.


But truman did not want a quick surrender. He had a message he wanted to give russia....that the US was now the biggest dog on the block

So he used the bombs

Nice guy that old dirty Harry Truman. No doubt he’s burning in Hell for eternity.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Why would I leave, Junior? You never did tell me how many years you've been teaching History. Oh, and did you notice all the many, many references, links, and direct quotes I have posted on this topic?

He has no evidence....just empty claims

 

[Open Bolt]

Still dont care

Everyone knows.

It's why you lie all the time.

He has no evidence....just empty claims

Liar.

 

[Open Bolt]

Nice guy that old dirty Harry Truman. No doubt he’s burning in Hell for eternity.

There is considerable doubt. War is horrible, but bombing military targets during a war is entirely legitimate.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Anyone hear that? Lol

 

[Vegasgiants]

Nice guy that old dirty Harry Truman. No doubt he’s burning in Hell for eternity.

He was kept out of the loop for most of the war. He finally gets up to the plate and he whiffs it

 

[Lastamender]

Anyone hear that? Lol

I did. What about it?

 

[Open Bolt]

Anyone hear that? Lol

In addition to lying all the time, you are also pretty childish.

But what you don't realize is that your childish antics only further undermine your position.

He finally gets up to the plate and he whiffs it

Wrong again. Mr. Truman did a perfect job.

How do you think the Cuban Missile Crisis would have turned out if the US and USSR had not had the example of Hiroshima to restrain them from launching a nuclear war?