The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[Dayton3]

Yeah. But I'm sure you are fun at parties

I rarely go to parties. You're the traitor and coward.

 

[Vegasgiants]

I rarely go to parties. You're the traitor and coward.

Get em ranger

 

[Dayton3]

Get em ranger

Where is the proof you served in the military that you promised to provide?

And note, I'll freely admit to never having served in the military so I don't have to provide anything.

 

[AZrailwhale]

If the Japanese had wanted to surrender, all the government had to do was have the minister of state pick up the phone and call the Swiss embassy. They would have passed the message on to the Swiss embassy in DC which would have had the Ambassador walk it into the Secretary of State’s office who would have notified FDR who would have issued orders to cease fighting and sent occupation forces into Japan. The war would have been over within days of the Japanese telephoning the Swiss ambassador. That’s how easy it would have been for the Japanese to surrender.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Once we tested the bomb there was no longer a need to invade.
We could bomb them into submission any time we chose

We had three bombs, one to test, two to drop
We could also continue to produce as many as we needed

There was no rush, Japan was at our mercy

No need to bomb civilians

No rush, right, pull the other one it’s got bells on it. Thousands of civilians were being killed in the Greater East Asian CoOrosperity Sphere every day and hundreds of Allied POWs were dying or being murdered by Japanese guards every week. The Japanese were murdering captured aviators right up until and even after the surrender. Several Royal Navy Pilots were captured in the last attack on the DEI and were tortured and murdered AFTER Japan signed the surrender documents. Yes there was a rush to defeat Japan.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The 1946 United States Strategic Bombing Survey in Japan, whose members included Paul Nitze,[89] concluded the atomic bombs had been unnecessary to win the war. They said:

Debate over the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The strategic bombing survey was a product of the bomber mafia. It also concluded that Nazi Germany would have been defeated by aerial bombing despite the evidence of four years of war that proved otherwise.

 

[Mushroom]

General Bombs Away Lemay said the war would have been over in 2 weeks. He later said probably even earlier

You mean the guy that also predicted that the bombs would not be needed, and they could crush Japan by firebombing the top 100 major cities into ashes?

That by the 1960s, air forces would be so powerful that there would no longer be a need for an army?

That the best way to win WWIII was to launch a pre-emptive strike ourselves?

And you are actually taking his claims seriously? And no, he actually predicted 4 months of firebombing. Which would not have been nuclear, but would have killed far more people.

 

[Mushroom]

If the Japanese had wanted to surrender, all the government had to do was have the minister of state pick up the phone and call the Swiss embassy. They would have passed the message on to the Swiss embassy in DC which would have had the Ambassador walk it into the Secretary of State’s office who would have notified FDR who would have issued orders to cease fighting and sent occupation forces into Japan. The war would have been over within days of the Japanese telephoning the Swiss ambassador. That’s how easy it would have been for the Japanese to surrender.

The Japanese actually did try to go through the Swiss. And the Swedes. And when both of them refused to present their proposal for an armistice (not a surrender - there is a huge difference between the two) they both refused.

Japan then went to their last hope, the Soviets. Their own ambassador told them they had to get serious, and the Soviets knew that their proposal never had a chance of being accepted. So they simply strung them along until they themselves declared war against them.

All anybody has to do is look at the meetings of the Imperial Cabinet prior to, the days of the bombings, and afterwards. Those were the only people in the nation with the power to surrender. And until after the second bomb and the invasion of the Soviet Union, they were still determined to continue no matter what the cost.

 

[Open Bolt]

I have backed up every claim.

You have backed up none of your personal attacks against me.

You have also not backed up your claims about Japan being willing to surrender before the atomic bombs were dropped.

Junior.

Given your vast and total ignorance of this subject, you are the only junior here.

 

[Open Bolt]

Do you honestly think that all these brillant military leaders were wrong in their military assessment?
I am just asking your honest military opinion

If they said that Japan offered to surrender before the atomic bombs were dropped, then yes they were wrong.

If you are merely talking about them whining about the atomic bombs, then who knows and who cares.

when Russia invaded manchuria on the day between the two bombings Japan knew it was over. That was what led Japan to surrender

Now look at the date of that surrender offer.

After both atomic bombs had already been dropped, right?

He doesnt even try.

You rely on personal attacks because you can't support your position with facts or logic.

How do you think the Cuban Missile Crisis would have turned out if the US and USSR had not had the example of Hiroshima to restrain them from launching a nuclear war?

 

[Unkotare]

....


I have backed up everything I've said with direct quotes from those involved at the time.

^^^^^^^

 

[Unkotare]

I have backed up every claim. YOU have not, Junior.

^^^^^^^^

 

[Open Bolt]

I have backed up everything I've said with direct quotes from those involved at the time.

I have backed up every claim.

You have backed up none of your personal attacks against me.

You have also not backed up your claims about Japan being willing to surrender before the atomic bombs were dropped.

Junior.

Given your vast and total ignorance of this subject, you are the only junior here.

 

[Unkotare]

I have backed up every claim. YOU have not, Junior.

^^^^^^^^^

 

[Open Bolt]

I have backed up every claim.

Liar.

Junior.

Given your vast and total ignorance of this subject, you are the only junior here.

 

[Unkotare]

I have backed up every claim. YOU have not, Junior.

It's unfortunate that some people come to the history forum, but are clearly unwilling if not unable to actually discuss history. The study of history involves more than just repeating comfortable narratives like some kind of tribal chant. Those without the courage to look directly at the facts of history really should go somewhere else for empty self-affirmation. Leave it to the adults to actually discuss history.

 

[Flash]

If the Japanese had wanted to surrender, all the government had to do was have the minister of state pick up the phone and call the Swiss embassy. They would have passed the message on to the Swiss embassy in DC which would have had the Ambassador walk it into the Secretary of State’s office who would have notified FDR who would have issued orders to cease fighting and sent occupation forces into Japan. The war would have been over within days of the Japanese telephoning the Swiss ambassador. That’s how easy it would have been for the Japanese to surrender.

The sonofabitches resisted so much on Okinawa and inflicted such horrendous casualties on the Americans that they thought we would just let them get by without an unconditional surrender to prevent further casualties.

If they had surrendered either before or after Okinawa they never would have got nuked.

Like you said, all it took would have been a phone call.

They didn't make the phone call and they paid the price. Sorry about that.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

^^^^^^^

You have done no such thing, where is the link to all the supposed Japanese offers to surrender BEFORE Aug 10?

 

[rightwinger]

No rush, right, pull the other one it’s got bells on it. Thousands of civilians were being killed in the Greater East Asian CoOrosperity Sphere every day and hundreds of Allied POWs were dying or being murdered by Japanese guards every week. The Japanese were murdering captured aviators right up until and even after the surrender. Several Royal Navy Pilots were captured in the last attack on the DEI and were tortured and murdered AFTER Japan signed the surrender documents. Yes there was a rush to defeat Japan.

Japan was contained
Their Navy was neutralized and they lacked the pilots to challenge our air superiority

But we had THE BOMB

The ability to end the war under our terms.

The question is……did those terms need to be three days between bombs

 

[Vegasgiants]

If they said that Japan offered to surrender before the atomic bombs were dropped, then yes they were wrong.

If you are merely talking about them whining about the atomic bombs, then who knows and who cares.



Now look at the date of that surrender offer.

After both atomic bombs had already been dropped, right?



You rely on personal attacks because you can't support your position with facts or logic.

How do you think the Cuban Missile Crisis would have turned out if the US and USSR had not had the example of Hiroshima to restrain them from launching a nuclear war?

I dont care