The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[Vegasgiants]

I'm not that interested. I've already won this. I'm just being polite now.

Okay dokey pokey. Lol

 

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Yep I saw that too


Dismissed

On what grounds?

 

[Vegasgiants]

On what grounds?

On the same grounds you dismiss 7 generals and admirals

 

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On the same grounds you dismiss 7 generals and admirals

Well... the grounds I mentioned were that the generals were covering their asses for possible war crime charges and the generals were trying to get the president to commit to an invasion of Japan. What was the Emperor's reason?

 

[Vegasgiants]

Well... the grounds I mentioned was that the generals were covering their asses for war crime charges. What was the Emperor's reasons?

He was covering his ass because it was really the Russian invasion

 

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He was covering his ass because it was really the Russian invasion

Why did he need to cover his ass? What was it that he was afraid of saying?

 

[Vegasgiants]

Why did he need to cover his ass?

Because he would have to admit he lost a conventional war. He was supposed to be a semi deity and could not win a conventional war

 

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Because he would have to admit he lost a conventional war. He was supposed to be a semi deity and could not win a conventional war

But Japan didn't lose a conventional war. They lost a nuclear war. You might have heard about that in the news. We dropped two nukes on them and then they surrendered unconditionally.

 

[Vegasgiants]

But Japan didn't lose a conventional war. They lost a nuclear war. You might have heard about that in the news. We dropped two nukes on them and then they surrendered unconditionally.

Not according to our military leaders.

 

[ding]

Not according to our military leaders.

Your logic is staggering. Two nukes - the likes of which were never seen before - unleashing devastating destruction isn't enough for Japan to surrender but the mere thought of the Russians are coming did.

 

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Not according to our military leaders.

Actually that's not according to our military leaders. What they said was that we could get Japan to surrender unconditionally without dropping nukes. The generals did not say Japan surrendered because of Russia.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I asked a simple question

You made the claim support it or go the fuck away thats how it works

 

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According to historian Richard B. Frank,

The intercepts of Japanese Imperial Army and Navy messages disclosed without exception that Japan's armed forces were determined to fight a final Armageddon battle in the homeland against an Allied invasion. The Japanese called this strategy Ketsu Go (Operation Decisive). It was founded on the premise that American morale was brittle and could be shattered by heavy losses in the initial invasion. American politicians would then gladly negotiate an end to the war far more generous than unconditional surrender.[61]

 

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The United States Department of Energy's history of the Manhattan Project lends some credence to these claims, saying that military leaders in Japan

also hoped that if they could hold out until the ground invasion of Japan began, they would be able to inflict so many casualties on the Allies that Japan still might win some sort of negotiated settlement.[62]

 

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While some members of the civilian leadership did use covert diplomatic channels to attempt peace negotiation, they could not negotiate surrender or even a cease-fire. Japan could legally enter into a peace agreement only with the unanimous support of the Japanese cabinet, and in the summer of 1945, the Japanese Supreme War Council, consisting of representatives of the Army, the Navy, and the civilian government, could not reach a consensus on how to proceed.[60]

A political stalemate developed between the military and civilian leaders of Japan, the military increasingly determined to fight despite all costs and odds and the civilian leadership seeking a way to negotiate an end to the war. Further complicating the decision was the fact no cabinet could exist without the representative of the Imperial Japanese Army. This meant the Army or Navy could veto any decision by having its Minister resign, thus making them the most powerful posts on the SWC. In early August 1945, the cabinet was equally split between those who advocated an end to the war on one condition, the preservation of the kokutai, and those who insisted on three other conditions:[63]

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Sure no problem

Debate over the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

That supports us not you

 

[Vegasgiants]

That supports us not you

In your opinion

Dismissed

 

[ding]

That supports us not you

Agreed. He dismissed the emperor's statement saying the emperor used the nukes to save face from being afraid of Russians. Which is silly. Japan and Russia have been at war for as long time.

What he can't dismiss thou are the intercepts....

According to historian Richard B. Frank,

The intercepts of Japanese Imperial Army and Navy messages disclosed without exception that Japan's armed forces were determined to fight a final Armageddon battle in the homeland against an Allied invasion. The Japanese called this strategy Ketsu Go (Operation Decisive). It was founded on the premise that American morale was brittle and could be shattered by heavy losses in the initial invasion. American politicians would then gladly negotiate an end to the war far more generous than unconditional surrender.[61]

 

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In your opinion

Dismissed

You can't dismiss the intercepts.

According to historian Richard B. Frank,

The intercepts of Japanese Imperial Army and Navy messages disclosed without exception that Japan's armed forces were determined to fight a final Armageddon battle in the homeland against an Allied invasion. The Japanese called this strategy Ketsu Go (Operation Decisive). It was founded on the premise that American morale was brittle and could be shattered by heavy losses in the initial invasion. American politicians would then gladly negotiate an end to the war far more generous than unconditional surrender.[61]

 

[Vegasgiants]

You made the claim support it or go the fuck away thats how it works

I did.