The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Pogo]

The statistics bear it all out. An average African American is far more likely to be harmed by a fellow African American, than by an Evil White Racist. White on Black crime is almost nonexistent at this point. However, Black on White crime is at an all-time high. There are so many problems with this whole Race-Baiting charade. First off, Zimmerman was not White. He was Hispanic. The MSM simply lied about that to incite racial tensions. Their repetitive 'White-Hispanic' mantra was a despicable Race-Baiting farce. Do they call Barack Obama a 'White-African American?' Of course they don't.

This tragedy was made so much worse by our corrupt MSM and the usual Race-Huckster suspects. The African American community needs to do some serious soul-searching. Their people do commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime in this country. That's just the reality. The truth is, violent White Racists have become very scarce. In my assessment, there are far more violent Black Racists out there now. But i know some would never accept that assessment. And that's ok. You can't change some people. Anyway, it's time to put this awful tragedy behind us. There are much bigger fish to fry. Our President and his secret court just approved more NSA spying on Verizon customers. It's time to get focused on running the criminals out of our Government. Take care. Have a great Sunday.

I find it pretty bizarre to look at all this and somehow conclude, "The African American community needs to do some serious soul-searching". What for?

No, the media is who needs to do some serious soul-searching. And by that I mean the community of enablers who allow them to blow up a single altercation among thousands into a fake-news feeding frenzy.

Just the fact that this silly thread was put together with a poll question that allows only two possible answers--- as if everyone must somehow have a "side" to take -- and completely disregards any possibility of "I don't know/care enough about it" speaks volumes about what passes for "news".

If you are sitting on the jury, however, you have only the two choices given in the poll. You are expected to render a verdict of guilty based on the evidence presented or not guilty based on the same evidence. The poll questions therefore are fairly presented.

I don't know what happened that terrible night and neither does anybody else here. I do know that the prosecution failed to show that Zimmerman committed any illegal act or that the death of Trayvon Martin was the result of anything other than self defense.

Therefore, the only just verdict that can be rendered in our system of justice is "Not guilty."

We should be on our knees every day thanking God that people who want to make this about whether it is okay to follow somebody on a public sidewalk or whether a concealed weapon is automatic guilt or whether the more likable looking person should be the innocent one or whether there is no just reason for a white person to shoot a black person---that such people are not in a position to judge your or my or anybody else's guilt or innocence.

I agree however that the Administration and its surrogate media have made a travesty of justice in this particular case.

But this is the point: we're not sitting on the jury. We don't have access to all the various arguments and evidence. All we have is what mass media tells us. And as we all know when we don't selectively forget it, that commercial media exists not to inform us but to make money, and they're not above stretching and inflaming in order to sell papers.

That's why the idea of a poll allowing only two possible answers is absurd. People without the requisite degree of arrogance can't even vote here.

 

[Pogo]

The statistics bear it all out. An average African American is far more likely to be harmed by a fellow African American, than by an Evil White Racist. White on Black crime is almost nonexistent at this point. However, Black on White crime is at an all-time high. There are so many problems with this whole Race-Baiting charade. First off, Zimmerman was not White. He was Hispanic. The MSM simply lied about that to incite racial tensions. Their repetitive 'White-Hispanic' mantra was a despicable Race-Baiting farce. Do they call Barack Obama a 'White-African American?' Of course they don't.

This tragedy was made so much worse by our corrupt MSM and the usual Race-Huckster suspects. The African American community needs to do some serious soul-searching. Their people do commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime in this country. That's just the reality. The truth is, violent White Racists have become very scarce. In my assessment, there are far more violent Black Racists out there now. But i know some would never accept that assessment. And that's ok. You can't change some people. Anyway, it's time to put this awful tragedy behind us. There are much bigger fish to fry. Our President and his secret court just approved more NSA spying on Verizon customers. It's time to get focused on running the criminals out of our Government. Take care. Have a great Sunday.

I find it pretty bizarre to look at all this and somehow conclude, "The African American community needs to do some serious soul-searching". What for?

No, the media is who needs to do some serious soul-searching. And by that I mean the community of enablers who allow them to blow up a single altercation among thousands into a fake-news feeding frenzy.

Just the fact that this silly thread was put together with a poll question that allows only two possible answers--- as if everyone must somehow have a "side" to take -- and completely disregards any possibility of "I don't know/care enough about it" speaks volumes about what passes for "news".

Is it not possible that both are true?

The MSM does need to do some soul searching when it comes to the milk the moment journalism that is passing for reality these days. It's shameful and certainly lower than mud when it comes to what journalism is supposed to be.

But also

The Black Community truly does need to do some soul searching when it comes to Blacks preying on Blacks. But also, that very action is indeed causing everyone, of every skin color to be afraid of young black men simply by the number of crimes being committed.

Sure, that's true. But that's got nothing to do with the ZimmerMartin case. It was true before any of this happened.

What Paulitician did is look at a media circus that the media created, using the usual black-white antagonist puppets, and then conclude that one of the puppets is to blame.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Always remember, Racism is a learned behavior. It's taught in the home and at an early age. And unfortunately, it is becoming clear that many African Africans are being taught to hate other races. They are clearly being taught to hate White People. Human Beings are born good for the most part. They have to be taught how to hate. And that's just happening far too much in our World. I know many will criticize me for saying it, but Black Racism is on a rapid rise. We can see it all around us. It's very sad.

While racism can be taught at home. The poverty pimps are re enforcing racism and bringing new racist out of the woodwork with their bullshit.
While I've always had a problem with the likes of sharpton and quanell, I now have to look at all blacks in a different light. Because it appears that the vast majority of them are pure racist or complete morons.

 

[rdean]

I am not an expert on assessing the severity of injuries, so I yield to your greater expertise. However, I believe I am more familiar with laws pertaining to self defense than you might be (actually, I have a JD). The law does not require that someone receive serious injury before using deadly force in self defense. In fact the law does not require that one suffer any injuries at all before using deadly force in self defense. The law requires only a reasonable FEAR of serious bodily injury or death. It is the reasonable FEAR of serious injury that is required, not an actual injury . I will give you an example:

John and Joe are friends. Joe has a friend named Mark that John does not know. Joe wants to play a trick on John and asks Mark to confront John with an unloaded gun and pretend he is going to shoot him. Mark agrees and approaches John accusing him of messing around with his girlfriend. Mark then says, ”Now you die,” and points the gun at John's chest.

At this point John has not been seriously injured, and in reality is in no danger of being seriously injured. However, if John draws his concealed weapon and shoots Mark, killing him, John has a perfect case for self defense. John didn’t know that Mark was joking and didn't know the gun was not loaded; therefore he had a reasonably fear of death or serious bodily injury unless he shot Mark and the use of deadly force is justified. I am aware of more than a few cases where deadly force was allowed when someone was threatened with a toy gun. If a jury determines that a reasonably prudent person would believe the toy gun is real, the defendant is justified in using deadly force.

The only relevant legal question in the Zimmerman case is this: Did George Zimmerman have a reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death if he did not use deadly force against Trayvon Martin? The jury determined that he did.

Did George Zimmerman have a reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death if he did not use deadly force against Trayvon Martin?

That was not that question. They couldn't prove Zimmerman was lying. It's stupid to think someone who was armed would chase after someone who wasn't and then claim "fear". There was doubt. Supposedly. But we know from the juror that the one holdout was badgered by the other jurors. One even said her mind was made up before the trial.

George Zimmerman may think he got away with murder, but no one wants a child killer living next door. Not even ignorant right wingers. His life will be hell.

Did George Zimmerman have a reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death if he did not use deadly force against Trayvon Martin?

That was not that question.

that is the exact question

-In deciding whether George Zimmerman was justified in the use of deadly force, you
must judge him by the circumstances by which he was surrounded at the time the force was
used. The danger facing George Zimmerman need not have been actual; however, to justify
the use of deadly force, the appearance of danger must have been so real that a reasonably
cautious and prudent person under the same circumstances would have believed that the
danger could be avoided only through the use of that force.-

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Zimmerman_Final_Jury_Instructions.pdf

Which is where racism comes in. According to this fiasco, any white person can shoot a black kid and then say they were facing the "appearance" of danger simply by facing a black person. That is what this is all about. Zimmerman was armed and he first stalked and then chased down Martin and shot him. Those are the only FACTS we know for sure. In fact, Zimmerman didn't even testify so any supposed facts we have are second hand. Clearly, looking at the pictures, Zimmerman's face wasn't punched multiple times and his head wasn't bashed into the concrete and he had his gun out and the safety off. Nothing else can explain those pictures. It's common sense. But when Martin "stood his ground", Zimmerman realized he could kill this kid and claim he was scared and he did and it worked.

What the right wing has done is demonize this kid so they won't feel guilt from supporting murder. I don't know why they bother. Most are racist anyway. They will never feel anything but a sense of celebration at a white man shooting a young unarmed black down in cold blood. It's the way of the confederacy and of the south, the majority of the GOP.

 

[rdean]

The statistics bear it all out. An average African American is far more likely to be harmed by a fellow African American, than by an Evil White Racist. White on Black crime is almost nonexistent at this point. However, Black on White crime is at an all-time high. There are so many problems with this whole Race-Baiting charade. First off, Zimmerman was not White. He was Hispanic. The MSM simply lied about that to incite racial tensions. Their repetitive 'White-Hispanic' mantra was a despicable Race-Baiting farce. Do they call Barack Obama a 'White-African American?' Of course they don't.

This tragedy was made so much worse by our corrupt MSM and the usual Race-Huckster suspects. The African American community needs to do some serious soul-searching. Their people do commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime in this country. That's just the reality. The truth is, violent White Racists have become very scarce. In my assessment, there are far more violent Black Racists out there now. But i know some would never accept that assessment. And that's ok. You can't change some people. Anyway, it's time to put this awful tragedy behind us. There are much bigger fish to fry. Our President and his secret court just approved more NSA spying on Verizon customers. It's time to get focused on running the criminals out of our Government. Take care. Have a great Sunday.

I find it pretty bizarre to look at all this and somehow conclude, "The African American community needs to do some serious soul-searching". What for?

No, the media is who needs to do some serious soul-searching. And by that I mean the community of enablers who allow them to blow up a single altercation among thousands into a fake-news feeding frenzy.

Just the fact that this silly thread was put together with a poll question that allows only two possible answers--- as if everyone must somehow have a "side" to take -- and completely disregards any possibility of "I don't know/care enough about it" speaks volumes about what passes for "news".

Is it not possible that both are true?

The MSM does need to do some soul searching when it comes to the milk the moment journalism that is passing for reality these days. It's shameful and certainly lower than mud when it comes to what journalism is supposed to be.

But also

The Black Community truly does need to do some soul searching when it comes to Blacks preying on Blacks. But also, that very action is indeed causing everyone, of every skin color to be afraid of young black men simply by the number of crimes being committed.

Fuck white people who tell the black community what they should do. Look at that racist, right wing confederate community that makes up the GOP base.

Two thirds of all gun related deaths are suicide. The vast majority are white guys in Red States. That leaves all other gun deaths including Sandy Hook and the shooting of Gabby, and Zimmerman and all the robberies and kids shooting baby brother or sister and any other shooting as part of the one third.

And look at Red States. 150 years of conservative rule and they are some of the most fucked up places in the entire world. They only survive if oil is discovered and by living off the teet supplied by liberal Blue States.

 

[Foxfyre]

I find it pretty bizarre to look at all this and somehow conclude, "The African American community needs to do some serious soul-searching". What for?

No, the media is who needs to do some serious soul-searching. And by that I mean the community of enablers who allow them to blow up a single altercation among thousands into a fake-news feeding frenzy.

Just the fact that this silly thread was put together with a poll question that allows only two possible answers--- as if everyone must somehow have a "side" to take -- and completely disregards any possibility of "I don't know/care enough about it" speaks volumes about what passes for "news".

If you are sitting on the jury, however, you have only the two choices given in the poll. You are expected to render a verdict of guilty based on the evidence presented or not guilty based on the same evidence. The poll questions therefore are fairly presented.

I don't know what happened that terrible night and neither does anybody else here. I do know that the prosecution failed to show that Zimmerman committed any illegal act or that the death of Trayvon Martin was the result of anything other than self defense.

Therefore, the only just verdict that can be rendered in our system of justice is "Not guilty."

We should be on our knees every day thanking God that people who want to make this about whether it is okay to follow somebody on a public sidewalk or whether a concealed weapon is automatic guilt or whether the more likable looking person should be the innocent one or whether there is no just reason for a white person to shoot a black person---that such people are not in a position to judge your or my or anybody else's guilt or innocence.

I agree however that the Administration and its surrogate media have made a travesty of justice in this particular case.

But this is the point: we're not sitting on the jury. We don't have access to all the various arguments and evidence. All we have is what mass media tells us. And as we all know when we don't selectively forget it, that commercial media exists not to inform us but to make money, and they're not above stretching and inflaming in order to sell papers.

That's why the idea of a poll allowing only two possible answers is absurd. People without the requisite degree of arrogance can't even vote here.

I did have access to all the various argument and evidence because I watched the trial. When I couldn't watch live, I recorded it and watched later. I had as good a view and as much information as the jury PLUS a lot of the stuff the judge and lawyers discussed but the jury was not allowed to know or see. The prosecution did not make their case. They just didn't. The ONLY just verdict in this trial was "not guilty."

I agree that with the exception of Fox News and one or two others, anybody getting their information from the media would be encouraged to believe an entirely different trial was taking place.

But this was not all the fault of the media. This was the fault of the President and his administration who early on fanned the flames of angry racism. This was the fault of the DOJ representatives who went to Florida on four different occasions to stir up the troops to protest and demonstrate against Zimmerman and encourage the prosecution to charge him. That the media shamelessly aided and abetted that process rather than exposing it is on their heads.

But it is what it is.

 

[Meathead]

Agreed, this has made a very large segment of the black community and leadership seem appallingly vindictive, petty and petulant.

Amen to that one.

Again we must be careful not to lump all black people into the same barrel any more than we do that to white people because some white people are jerks or other unsavory types.

But yes, there was a time in America in which some--not all but some--white people rose up as angry mobs to take vengeance on a black person who committed a crime against a white person. Who among us would now condone the whippings, the lynchings, the mutilations, the terrorist cross burnings and other savage brutality such white mobs heaped upon 'errant' black people?

But it is the rare white person who does that any more. We have evolved. We have learned. We have educated and disciplined our own so that the situation is 99.9% corrected. When the two thugs shot the baby in the face, we all grieved in our hearts as well as felt fury at such senseless cruelty and deprivation of life. But white people did not take to the streets to riot or protest or destroy property to do violence to people. Nor has the media harped on or even mentioned the fact that the shooters were black and the baby was white as they have focused on race in the Zimmerman case.

It is now time for militant black people to evolve and discipline themselves and not continue to fan the fires of racism. They should demand that their 'civil rights' leaders speak reasonably and honorably rather than stir up the passions for violence. And they should help their own and demand that antisocial behavior cease and desist because it is hurting too many people, most especially those who happen to be black.

And it is time for us ALL to stop race baiting ourselves, to demand that the media stop it, to demand that the government stop it, and to demand that the justice system return to a system of justice instead of a tool for self-serving politicians to use for their own ends.

Excellent post. I doubt that some have the inclination or the ability to comprened it, but thanks.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Plus- The neighborhood had multiple burglaries committed by Blacks.

If it walks like a duck...

-Geaux

That's stupid thinking, akin to saying that since most rapes are committed by men then all men are fair game as targets.

We are. Do women avoid other women when faced with one on one encounters say maybe late at night in a parking lot ?

Depends on the woman, to tell you the truth, but it is a fact that I feel automatically more threatened by a man than I do a woman, simply because I have a good chance of taking another woman in a fight, but almost no chance of beating any man you would care to name.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

So what we're finding it's ok to make uncorroborated and malicious statements about Trayvon Martin and his tragic death, while at the same time mere assertions about Zimmerman or recounting what he himself admitted in the 911 call causes nothing but outrage and upheaval.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I find it pretty bizarre to look at all this and somehow conclude, "The African American community needs to do some serious soul-searching". What for?

No, the media is who needs to do some serious soul-searching. And by that I mean the community of enablers who allow them to blow up a single altercation among thousands into a fake-news feeding frenzy.

Just the fact that this silly thread was put together with a poll question that allows only two possible answers--- as if everyone must somehow have a "side" to take -- and completely disregards any possibility of "I don't know/care enough about it" speaks volumes about what passes for "news".

Is it not possible that both are true?

The MSM does need to do some soul searching when it comes to the milk the moment journalism that is passing for reality these days. It's shameful and certainly lower than mud when it comes to what journalism is supposed to be.

But also

The Black Community truly does need to do some soul searching when it comes to Blacks preying on Blacks. But also, that very action is indeed causing everyone, of every skin color to be afraid of young black men simply by the number of crimes being committed.

Sure, that's true. But that's got nothing to do with the ZimmerMartin case. It was true before any of this happened.

What Paulitician did is look at a media circus that the media created, using the usual black-white antagonist puppets, and then conclude that one of the puppets is to blame.

If you allow yourself to be used as a puppet - and the black community certainly has done so - then you are to blame for THAT.

 

[Pogo]

Is it not possible that both are true?

The MSM does need to do some soul searching when it comes to the milk the moment journalism that is passing for reality these days. It's shameful and certainly lower than mud when it comes to what journalism is supposed to be.

But also

The Black Community truly does need to do some soul searching when it comes to Blacks preying on Blacks. But also, that very action is indeed causing everyone, of every skin color to be afraid of young black men simply by the number of crimes being committed.

Sure, that's true. But that's got nothing to do with the ZimmerMartin case. It was true before any of this happened.

What Paulitician did is look at a media circus that the media created, using the usual black-white antagonist puppets, and then conclude that one of the puppets is to blame.

If you allow yourself to be used as a puppet - and the black community certainly has done so - then you are to blame for THAT.

Actually no, that's on the puppeteer, which in this case is the media.

We had the same bullshit going on in another thread where poster A declared that some black thugs "represented" poster B because poster B was black, and because they said so. Poster B had nothing to say about it. Doesn't work that way.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

We know people love to have their cake and eat it too. Zimmerman is innocent, period. And it's not, well he was proven not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and his supporters won't admit that the prosecution probably did a lousy job and/or mistakes were made by the jury.

 

[Meathead]

We know people love to have their cake and eat it too. Zimmerman is innocent, period. And it's not, well he was proven not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and his supporters won't admit that the prosecution probably did a lousy job and/or mistakes were made by the jury.

He was not proven guilty beyond a delusion doubt. No, maybe beyond a delusional doubt would find him guilty.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

We know people love to have their cake and eat it too. Zimmerman is innocent, period. And it's not, well he was proven not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and his supporters won't admit that the prosecution probably did a lousy job and/or mistakes were made by the jury.

He was not proven guilty beyond a delusion doubt. No, maybe beyond a delusional doubt would find him guilty.

So when people are acquitted, the prosecution, the victim, and the victim's families and supporters were delusional? It's not clear what you mean here. My apologies if I misunderstood what you meant.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Sure, that's true. But that's got nothing to do with the ZimmerMartin case. It was true before any of this happened.

What Paulitician did is look at a media circus that the media created, using the usual black-white antagonist puppets, and then conclude that one of the puppets is to blame.

If you allow yourself to be used as a puppet - and the black community certainly has done so - then you are to blame for THAT.

Actually no, that's on the puppeteer, which in this case is the media.

We had the same bullshit going on in another thread where poster A declared that some black thugs "represented" poster B because poster B was black, and because they said so. Poster B had nothing to say about it. Doesn't work that way.

No. Using people is on the puppeteer, but allowing oneself to be used is on the puppet. I don't know of any other racial or ethnic group off the top of my head that will remain silent and complacently allow itself to be stereotyped by its worst members, but it's very rare to find prominent black people speaking up and condemning those members, rather than making excuses for them and whining about their victimhood. And often, when a prominent black person DOES speak up about those members of the community staining its reputation, that person ends up attacked by other prominent black people as "acting white" or "being an Uncle Tom".

 

[Cecilie1200]

We know people love to have their cake and eat it too. Zimmerman is innocent, period. And it's not, well he was proven not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and his supporters won't admit that the prosecution probably did a lousy job and/or mistakes were made by the jury.

Welcome to the American system of justice, where one is presumed innocent until such time as he is proven guilty, rather than being presumed guilty because a lynch mob wants him to be guilty. Don't like it? Feel free to move to a less-civilized and more lawless nation. We won't stop you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

We know people love to have their cake and eat it too. Zimmerman is innocent, period. And it's not, well he was proven not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and his supporters won't admit that the prosecution probably did a lousy job and/or mistakes were made by the jury.

He was not proven guilty beyond a delusion doubt. No, maybe beyond a delusional doubt would find him guilty.

So when people are acquitted, the prosecution, the victim, and the victim's families and supporters were delusional? It's not clear what you mean here. My apologies if I misunderstood what you meant.

In this case, I'd say the prosecution WAS delusional . . . about its ability to prove the case it brought. Perhaps that's why Zimmerman was not arrested and charged UNTIL a lynch mob was whipped up against him . . . because the original prosecutor knew there wasn't enough evidence to support the case.

Once again, welcome to how the American justice system works. Maybe you don't like it because you can't manipulate and micromanage the results to your satisfaction, but it beats the shit out of the sort of system you appear to be advocating.

 

[Pogo]

If you allow yourself to be used as a puppet - and the black community certainly has done so - then you are to blame for THAT.

Actually no, that's on the puppeteer, which in this case is the media.

We had the same bullshit going on in another thread where poster A declared that some black thugs "represented" poster B because poster B was black, and because they said so. Poster B had nothing to say about it. Doesn't work that way.

No. Using people is on the puppeteer, but allowing oneself to be used is on the puppet. I don't know of any other racial or ethnic group off the top of my head that will remain silent and complacently allow itself to be stereotyped by its worst members, but it's very rare to find prominent black people speaking up and condemning those members, rather than making excuses for them and whining about their victimhood. And often, when a prominent black person DOES speak up about those members of the community staining its reputation, that person ends up attacked by other prominent black people as "acting white" or "being an Uncle Tom".

Uh... the puppet has nothing to say about it. That's why he's a puppet.

What you're trying to get away with here is the same old canard that somebody pulled earlier when they said "we don't hear Muslims condemning terrorism", and then when they're given a long list of links to exactly that, they ignore it.

Now if you've got some special at-large ombudsman you've talked to who speaks for "all black people" -- as opposed to a few wispy stereotypes-- well then you know more about how the world works than I do.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

We know people love to have their cake and eat it too. Zimmerman is innocent, period. And it's not, well he was proven not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and his supporters won't admit that the prosecution probably did a lousy job and/or mistakes were made by the jury.

Welcome to the American system of justice, where one is presumed innocent until such time as he is proven guilty, rather than being presumed guilty because a lynch mob wants him to be guilty. Don't like it? Feel free to move to a less-civilized and more lawless nation. We won't stop you.

You missed my point which, I believe, I made clear, if not by stressing, "period," in my last two or three posts. I said that supporters of Trayvon can't even entertain the possibility that Zimmerman was entirely responsible for the death without undue attack.

 

[Pogo]

He was not proven guilty beyond a delusion doubt. No, maybe beyond a delusional doubt would find him guilty.

So when people are acquitted, the prosecution, the victim, and the victim's families and supporters were delusional? It's not clear what you mean here. My apologies if I misunderstood what you meant.

In this case, I'd say the prosecution WAS delusional . . . about its ability to prove the case it brought. Perhaps that's why Zimmerman was not arrested and charged UNTIL a lynch mob was whipped up against him . . . because the original prosecutor knew there wasn't enough evidence to support the case.

Once again, welcome to how the American justice system works. Maybe you don't like it because you can't manipulate and micromanage the results to your satisfaction, but it beats the shit out of the sort of system you appear to be advocating.

He's "advocating a system" because he wants "delusional" explained?

"Beyond a delusional doubt" is not a legal term. It doesn't even make any sense. Damn right it needs splainin'. I had no idea what Meathead was trying to say either. I still don't.