The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Oldstyle]

There's only one way that happens...and that's if Trayvon Martin retraces his steps...goes BACK to confront George Zimmerman...which means that he's LEAVING the safety of the condo he's staying in and walking back several hundred yards to confront someone that he just described as a "Cracker".

 

[Sunshine]

Did she say that Martin was "Back by behind his dads girlfriends house", or something like that?

If so, that would mean Martin went back to confront Zimmerman since he was killed 100 yards or so away from his dads girlfriends house. That means Martin was the aggressor and initiated the fight.

She said Martin asked Zimmerman "What you following me for?"
Then she heard Zimmerman ask, "What you doing around hear?"
The she heard "Grass sounds".

This tells me that Martin attacked Zimmerman.

He doesn't have to prove anything regarding Zimmerman. All he has to do is to bring about 'reasonable doubt.'

 

[Oldstyle]

That isn't George Zimmerman "hunting down" Trayvon Martin...that's Trayvon Martin hunting down George Zimmerman.

 

[testarosa]

Local news just said and I'm quoting:

"Race is most definitely onboard in this case now" (re: DD's crackah/niggah)

Oh NOW it's onboard?

Wow that's so funny because you were the guys with the race all onboard last year, but NOW it's here.

Seriously. The irony might kill me.

 

[Sunshine]

I just caught a little of it on MSNBC. Not sure if it will be on this afternoon or not, but I can't listen on my computer because I've had technical difficulties and don't have sound.

Man, I've never heard such biased commentators. And they are going on and on about how meeeeeeeeeeeen the attorney for the defense is to her. Damn. I thought he as being pretty gentle. She has clearly been coached to use the word 'sir' but not to say it with any kind of respect. The prosecution could have sewn this case up with her. All she had to do was to come in and be vulnerable. The minute he made here cry, it would be 'Katy bar the door' to the defense.

She is not credible, and she is not vulnerable. But she's a national celeb. Anyone wanna make book on how long after this trial is over before she starts to make the talk show circuit, and gets a ghost writer to write up all her lies in a book? I'd say less than a month.

 

[Sarah G]

Actually, Sarah...what West is doing is keeping a witness on the stand for as long as he can because the more questions he asks her...the more her answers become inconsistent. The "star" witness for the Prosecution is having a hard time keeping her story straight. The more times she's asked to explain what she said earlier...the more times she's going to forget what she's obviously been coached to say. West is very good at what he's doing. To be blunt this witness has been a disaster for the Prosecution's case.

We all know what he is attempting to do but he is just muddying the waters. Travon ran from the mailboxes, the phone went dead, she called him back, he thought he got away, turned around and Zimmerman was there. Travon said why you following me for and Zimmerman asked what you doing around here. A skuffle ensued on the grass, Travon said get off, get off and the phone went dead.

Move along, West.

Wait a second...he "turned around and Zimmerman was there"? How, Sarah? The Prosecution's own witness has testified that Martin was outside the condo where he was staying when she called him back. That's several hundred yards from where the fight took place. Kindly explain how Martin got from the condo ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the way back to where the two sidewalks T.

You need to review this testimony on your own. I'm not explaining everything to you.

 

[RKMBrown]

Did she say that Martin was "Back by behind his dads girlfriends house", or something like that?

If so, that would mean Martin went back to confront Zimmerman since he was killed 100 yards or so away from his dads girlfriends house. That means Martin was the aggressor and initiated the fight.

She said Martin asked Zimmerman "What you following me for?"
Then she heard Zimmerman ask, "What you doing around hear?"
The she heard "Grass sounds".

This tells me that Martin attacked Zimmerman.

He doesn't have to prove anything regarding Zimmerman. All he has to do is to bring about 'reasonable doubt.'

Really? Is the defense now saying that GZ did not shoot and kill TM? I did not realize that was in question. I suppose maybe someone else did it. Lone gunman on the hill?

 

[Sunshine]

Did she say that Martin was "Back by behind his dads girlfriends house", or something like that?

If so, that would mean Martin went back to confront Zimmerman since he was killed 100 yards or so away from his dads girlfriends house. That means Martin was the aggressor and initiated the fight.

She said Martin asked Zimmerman "What you following me for?"
Then she heard Zimmerman ask, "What you doing around hear?"
The she heard "Grass sounds".

This tells me that Martin attacked Zimmerman.

He doesn't have to prove anything regarding Zimmerman. All he has to do is to bring about 'reasonable doubt.'

Really? Is the defense now saying that GZ did not shoot and kill TM? I did not realize that was in question. I suppose maybe someone else did it. Lone gunman on the hill?

No one has said that. Do try to keep up. The issue is self defense, not murder.

 

[Oldstyle]

We all know what he is attempting to do but he is just muddying the waters. Travon ran from the mailboxes, the phone went dead, she called him back, he thought he got away, turned around and Zimmerman was there. Travon said why you following me for and Zimmerman asked what you doing around here. A skuffle ensued on the grass, Travon said get off, get off and the phone went dead.

Move along, West.

Wait a second...he "turned around and Zimmerman was there"? How, Sarah? The Prosecution's own witness has testified that Martin was outside the condo where he was staying when she called him back. That's several hundred yards from where the fight took place. Kindly explain how Martin got from the condo ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the way back to where the two sidewalks T.

You need to review this testimony on your own. I'm not explaining everything to you.

Now that's amusing, Sarah. You're not explaining it because you don't have a rational explanation for how Trayvon Martin gets from outside of the condo (where Rachel puts him when she calls him back...breathing hard from running away) all the way back up that side walk to where the fight took place. There's only one way that happened...and that's if Trayvon Martin WALKED BACK to confront the "creepy assed Cracker".

This case is over...

 

[Gracie]

I larned sumthin noo. If you iz black, cracka iz not racist. But if you iz black, niggah is racist as long as you iz black but not if you iz a cracka.

Got it. I think. I ax you guys if this be true?

 

[RKMBrown]

He doesn't have to prove anything regarding Zimmerman. All he has to do is to bring about 'reasonable doubt.'

Really? Is the defense now saying that GZ did not shoot and kill TM? I did not realize that was in question. I suppose maybe someone else did it. Lone gunman on the hill?

No one has said that. Do try to keep up. The issue is self defense, not murder.

I'm sorry, I thought you just said the defense does not not need to prove anything about GZ. Are you saying the prosecution has to prove it was self defense? Or are you saying there is a thing called reasonable suspicion that self defense may have been necessary? I've never heard of reasonable doubt being applied to self defense.

 

[Sunshine]

1) I think she said that there were others responsible for texting him on her phone...she also mentioned that she was not his girlfriend and that he was in a relationship with another girl...as far as the convo leading up to the killing, It was just her account...I dont believe she mentioned anyone else for that time span in particular.

2) Yes she did say she heard others in the background that could calm the situation....she basically just blew it off and never even checked up on the situation...she also stated that she thought his father could help him.

Thank you. It was very hard to follow her. I also felt like she said that he got away from him and was at his house. However, the altercation took place some distance away from his home. Would that not substantiate the defendant's account of what happened? I feel if she was supposed to show anything beyond a reasonable doubt, she really failed. Just my opinion if I was in the box.

Based on all of the information received from her and zimmerman.

1) Trayvon was followed
2) Trayvon ran through the courtyard and behind a building
3) GZ got out of his truck and started running so he wouldnt lose him and his location
4) GZ got to the courtyard (where the T in the sidewalk connects) looked around and couldnt see him (hes gone).
5) GZ is continuing to talk to dispatch and continues to walk up the T to the road...looks around again and cant see him
6) GZ starts to walk back in the direction he came in at.
7) GZ gets back to the cross in the T and he hears Trayvon ask him "is there a problem" or "why are you following me?"...Trayvon is coming at GZ at this point.
8) GZ tells them "he doesnt have a problem"
9) GZ goes to reach for what he says was his phone in his right side coat or pants pocket
10) As GZ is reaching for the "phone", Trayvon punches him in the nose and GZ stumbles to the ground
11) Trayvon jumps on top of him and there is a struggle
12) During the struggle Trayvon begin bashing Zimmermans head in the ground and GZ starts yelling for help
13) Neighbor hears the commotion and comes out to look...says hes calling 911...GZ says "no help me"
14) Neighbor says no Im calling 911
15) seconds after neighbor is on the phone GZ is screaming for help, there is a struggle and at some point the gun is exposed.
16) GZ manages to pull the gun out and quickly shoots trayvon in the heart and instantly kills him.
17) GZ pushes the body off of him and Trayvon is now dead face first in the grass.

Was Trayvon followed? Yes.

Was he committing a crime? No

Did GZ have a right to be suspicious? Yes

Could Trayvon have made it home instead? Yes

Did Trayvon have a right to be irritated with someone following him? Yes

Did Trayvon have a right to ask the person following him why? Yes

When approached, was GZ reaching for his phone before he got punched? IMO...NO...he was scared and panicked and was most likely going for his gun.

--I mean c'mon here. GZ cant have it both ways, imo. If he wants us to believe what he is saying, then its tuff to believe that GZ is reaching for a phone with some angry guy charging him...especially when the gun is exactly where he said he was reaching. Why grab your phone? The cops are on the way...aint nobody gonna help you that quick....he instinctively was going for his gun because he was in fear of a fight...this is common sense, IMO. Sorry you dont follow someone in the dark relentlessly even running after them at one point, and then when confronted pull out your gun. Essentially, you are admitting you shouldnt have been there in the first place.

Did trayvon have a right to punch someone who had been following him and is now reaching for something in his pocket in a panic? IMO, hell yes!

Is it within reason that GZ feared serious injury from being punched and having head bashed into the concrete? Yes.

This is the gray area...does the person following and pursuing someone in the dark and then when approached reaches for or in the area of what turns out to be a gun holstered on his right side have a right to claim self defense?

My opinion? GZ should not have been following someone in the dark on the phone with 911 carrying a pistol...hes not a cop...if you are going to follow, then leave the gun in the car...if you dont think you can follow safety without the gun...THEN DONT FOLLOW.

Trayvon is dead and cant defend himself in court or testify to what he heard or seen on GZ that night. IMO GZ should serve several years for manslaughter...not M2...GZ was not looking to go kill someone that night...he was trying to protect the neighborhood...but in doing it acted irresponsible and with bad judgment. I would give him a 10 year sentence...time off with good behavior hes out in 5 years...that puts him somewhere around 35 yrs old and the rest of his life to live, but he should be punished for using bad judgment and following a person with a gun.

I have to disagree with some of your post. I don't think this was manslaughter, I think it was self defense. You do NOT have the right to turn and assault the person behind you. And if you assault someone you believe is reaching for a gun, you are patently stupid. If I thought someone was pulling a gun on me I would consider the following choices, 1) Run away in a zig zag line to make it hard to hit me, 2) put up my hands and say 'whoa there, lets' not get rash here.' ) If my home was just a matter of a few feet or yards away, I'm head for the door of it fast. But then I was never a gang member, and I never felt the lure of a 'rumble.'

 

[pioneerpete]

Really? Is the defense now saying that GZ did not shoot and kill TM? I did not realize that was in question. I suppose maybe someone else did it. Lone gunman on the hill?

No one has said that. Do try to keep up. The issue is self defense, not murder.

I'm sorry, I thought you just said the defense does not not need to prove anything about GZ. Are you saying the prosecution has to prove it was self defense? Or are you saying there is a thing called reasonable suspicion that self defense may have been necessary?

They have to prove that it wasn't self defense

 

[Oldstyle]

You've got Zimmerman here Z.....................................................................and you've got Trayvon Martin way over there...........................................TM. So how do the two come together? Zimmerman is headed back to his SUV hundreds of yards away from the condo. If Martin doesn't go back then there is no confrontation.

 

[Gracie]

I'd like to know why that woman..yes, she IS a woman at 19...has not been found in contempt of court. If this were a different case scenario and that was a white person being cross examined...you can bet you ass they would have been fined.

I am so tired of the reverse discrimination going on in the world today. Whites this, whitey that, cracker this, honky that. Yet blacks can be rude, crude, obnoxious, disgusting, attack old people and young people, make songs with words that insult their own race yet if a caucasian barely steps over the invisible proverbial line...all hell breaks loose. I am TIRED of it. I see it every fucking day on tv and I am fed up.

In short...I am getting peeved and I don't want to be peeved.

 

[Sunshine]

Really? Is the defense now saying that GZ did not shoot and kill TM? I did not realize that was in question. I suppose maybe someone else did it. Lone gunman on the hill?

No one has said that. Do try to keep up. The issue is self defense, not murder.

I'm sorry, I thought you just said the defense does not not need to prove anything about GZ. Are you saying the prosecution has to prove it was self defense?

The prosecution has to prove their charges 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. All the defense has to do is establish reasonable doubt. The defense is self defense. And all the defense has to do is to establish reasonable doubt about the prosecution's charges. Showing any or all the witnesses for the prosecution have testified in an untruthful manner goes a long was toward showing reasonable doubt.

 

[Sarah G]

Wait a second...he "turned around and Zimmerman was there"? How, Sarah? The Prosecution's own witness has testified that Martin was outside the condo where he was staying when she called him back. That's several hundred yards from where the fight took place. Kindly explain how Martin got from the condo ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the way back to where the two sidewalks T.

You need to review this testimony on your own. I'm not explaining everything to you.

Now that's amusing, Sarah. You're not explaining it because you don't have a rational explanation for how Trayvon Martin gets from outside of the condo (where Rachel puts him when she calls him back...breathing hard from running away) all the way back up that side walk to where the fight took place. There's only one way that happened...and that's if Trayvon Martin WALKED BACK to confront the "creepy assed Cracker".

This case is over...

Yeah, it's over. Why even try to inform yourself any longer, the murderer walks..

 

[pioneerpete]

Rachel was at the local CVS buying a canned Arizona iced tea, skittles and a bottle of Nyquil. I guess we found out what was changing her demeanor this morning. LEAN!!!

 

[Gem]

My opinion? GZ should not have been following someone in the dark on the phone with 911 carrying a pistol...hes not a cop...if you are going to follow, then leave the gun in the car...if you dont think you can follow safety without the gun...THEN DONT FOLLOW.

While I understand your opinion...

Is it a crime to follow someone you believe is acting suspiciously in your neighborhood? Is it a crime to carry a legally purchased gun you have a permit for while doing so? Finally, is it a crime to pull that gun (or go to pull it) when the suspicious person you are following turns and heads towards you in what you believe is a threatening manner?

I'm asking seriously, because I do not know FL law on this.

 

[Sunshine]

No one has said that. Do try to keep up. The issue is self defense, not murder.

I'm sorry, I thought you just said the defense does not not need to prove anything about GZ. Are you saying the prosecution has to prove it was self defense? Or are you saying there is a thing called reasonable suspicion that self defense may have been necessary?

They have to prove that it wasn't self defense

Beyond a reasonable doubt. All the defense has to do is establish reasonable doubt. That is why he is going for the inconsistencies in this witness' testimony.