The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[jon_berzerk]

Zimmerman trial has all the ingredients for a miscarriage of justice

OBSERVATIONS, REPORTS, TIPS, REFERRALS AND TIRADES
BY ERIC ZORN

In following the George Zimmerman trial somewhat closely online last week, I noted a familiar pattern:

A "heater" case that draws intense media interest.

Sympathetic victim.

Unsympathetic defendant.

Evidence of innocence explained away with far-fetched theories or else ignored.

Evidence of guilt magnified and bolstered with irrelevant detail and innuendo.

These are among the key ingredients for all the wrongful convictions I've written about in the last 20 years.

Change of Subject: Zimmerman trial has all the ingredients for a miscarriage of justice

 

[IrishTexanChick]

19 firefighters dead in Arizona - latimes.com

 

[jon_berzerk]

YES!

She was wrong...Trayvon was wrong...yes, I blame her.

You can't attack people for following you and putting their hand in their pocket...

You have committed an assault on an innocent person...a person who has every legal right to do exactly what they were doing.

Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?

You can't go around assaulting people.

Learn it...it will come in handy some day.

Alright, calm down. No, I dont go around assaulting people. Why is it so hard for you to grasp that GZ goofed here and there? Under the circumstances he was asking for trouble...you dont follow people around in the dark...period. Do you follow people around in the dark? If you did, could you blame someone for asking you why? Are ya gonna reach for your gun when they do?...take the blinders off and look at both sides for a change.

Except Zimmerman didn't reach for his gun.

If there is proof he reached for his gun, present it.

You do know that Zimmerman's phone was laying on the ground in what @jon_berzerk terms 'the debris field'.

How did it get there if it was in his pocket?

BECAUSE HE WAS REACHING FOR IT in his pocket when Martin attacked him.

And, as we discussed before...Martin wasn't fighting in a way that would protect him from being shot. Punching instead of wrestling.

He was fighting like he was pissed and wanted to beat the shit out of a guy that he didn't like following him.

Stick to the facts...

folks need to go look at the debris field

and they would know things like that

 

[Ernie S.]

I agree...grabbing or reaching for something in the dark when asked why you are following could be a big problem...and it was. The prosecution is making a huge mistake not addressing this...it is only us in here discussing the reaching.

The prosecution knows what it is doing, man. It's not there first rodeo. If they thought they could score points with it, they would have brought it up.

From my observation, Zimmerman is left handed. I saw him taking notes. The officer that disarmed him said he carried his KelTek on his right side meaning he had to reach across his body to get to the gun and the grip would be facing forward. This practice is common for southpaws because left handed holsters are rarely stocked in gun shops.
I doubt that anyone would reach across their body to get to their phone. I carry mine in my left rear pocket. I retrieve it with my left hand. How about the rest of you? Do you reach across your body to get to your sail foam?

i am a south paw

can shoot with either hand

i usually shoot right handed

same for bows

bowling

darts

I shoot my revolvers right handed, but with an odd grip that puts most of the recoil in my left palm. If I'm shooting one handed I'll use my left. I mangled the right hand and forearm pretty bad in a motorcycle accident and can feel the screws backing out and the plates buckling after 10 rounds right handed with the 629.

 

[Missourian]

Alright, calm down. No, I dont go around assaulting people. Why is it so hard for you to grasp that GZ goofed here and there? Under the circumstances he was asking for trouble...you dont follow people around in the dark...period. Do you follow people around in the dark? If you did, could you blame someone for asking you why? Are ya gonna reach for your gun when they do?...take the blinders off and look at both sides for a change.

Except Zimmerman didn't reach for his gun.

If there is proof he reached for his gun, present it.

You do know that Zimmerman's phone was laying on the ground in what @jon_berzerk terms 'the debris field'.

How did it get there if it was in his pocket?

BECAUSE HE WAS REACHING FOR IT in his pocket.

And, as we discussed before...Martin wasn't fighting in a way that would protect him from being shot. Punching instead of wrestling.

He was fighting like he was pissed and wanted to beat the shit out of a guy that he didn't like following him.

Stick to the facts...

Oh thats right he reached for a phone that wasnt there...thats right...lol. Do you believe EVERYTHING you hear...or what you want to hear?

I heard him say he reached to his right and oops my phone wasnt there and went ....hmmm...but your gun was there...hmmm...not you...you buy it hook line and sinker. It was to his benefit to say he was reaching for his phone and not a gun...get that?

Just like it was to his benefit to say that trayvon was standing around looking at houses in the rain, so that he doesnt come off as nut chasing black kids around the neighborhood...get that?

Try to weed thru some of the crap...it will help.

You just make this stuff up as you go, don't you.

So he called the police to report a suspicious person (he'd reported blacks, whites, and hispanics) so he could follow a black man around.

Newsflash...he could follow a black guy around without calling the police and later call him suspicious.

But he called the police instead.

You know the police had been called to Twin Lakes (Zimmeman's neighborhood) 402 times in the last year?

Zimmerman called 9 times in 18 months.

There's another half baked theory out the window.

 

[IrishTexanChick]

Those cries for help just didn't sound gurgling in blood to me. Pretty clear for coming from ppls phones INSIDE their houses. Just sayin'

 

[IrishTexanChick]

Those cries for help just didn't sound gurgling in blood to me. Pretty clear for coming from ppls phones INSIDE their houses. Just sayin'

Not to mention you can hear the gunshot right up until the cries stop.

 

[IrishTexanChick]

Except Zimmerman didn't reach for his gun.

If there is proof he reached for his gun, present it.

You do know that Zimmerman's phone was laying on the ground in what @jon_berzerk terms 'the debris field'.

How did it get there if it was in his pocket?

BECAUSE HE WAS REACHING FOR IT in his pocket.

And, as we discussed before...Martin wasn't fighting in a way that would protect him from being shot. Punching instead of wrestling.

He was fighting like he was pissed and wanted to beat the shit out of a guy that he didn't like following him.

Stick to the facts...

Oh thats right he reached for a phone that wasnt there...thats right...lol. Do you believe EVERYTHING you hear...or what you want to hear?

I heard him say he reached to his right and oops my phone wasnt there and went ....hmmm...but your gun was there...hmmm...not you...you buy it hook line and sinker. It was to his benefit to say he was reaching for his phone and not a gun...get that?

Just like it was to his benefit to say that trayvon was standing around looking at houses in the rain, so that he doesnt come off as nut chasing black kids around the neighborhood...get that?

Try to weed thru some of the crap...it will help.

You just make this stuff up as you go, don't you.

So he called the police to report a suspicious person (he'd reported blacks, whites, and hispanics) so he could follow a black man around.

Newsflash...he could follow a black guy around without calling the police and later call him suspicious.

But he called the police instead.

You know the police had been called to Twin Lakes (Zimmeman's neighborhood) 402 times in the last year?

Zimmerman called 9 times in 18 months.

There's another half baked theory out the window.

25 does not make stuff up. I back him totally. He's as objective of a person as you're ever going to find. Really.

 

[jon_berzerk]

The prosecution knows what it is doing, man. It's not there first rodeo. If they thought they could score points with it, they would have brought it up.

From my observation, Zimmerman is left handed. I saw him taking notes. The officer that disarmed him said he carried his KelTek on his right side meaning he had to reach across his body to get to the gun and the grip would be facing forward. This practice is common for southpaws because left handed holsters are rarely stocked in gun shops.
I doubt that anyone would reach across their body to get to their phone. I carry mine in my left rear pocket. I retrieve it with my left hand. How about the rest of you? Do you reach across your body to get to your sail foam?

i am a south paw

can shoot with either hand

i usually shoot right handed

same for bows

bowling

darts

I shoot my revolvers right handed, but with an odd grip that puts most of the recoil in my left palm. If I'm shooting one handed I'll use my left. I mangled the right hand and forearm pretty bad in a motorcycle accident and can feel the screws backing out and the plates buckling after 10 rounds right handed with the 629.

i have been pretty lucky so far

both of my hands are just fine

and shoot equally well with either

 

[Ernie S.]

OMG... you had to think you were golden!!

Of course! Don't chase anyone out. Take as much of their money as possible and hope someone raises so you can bump them back.

Oh yeah..."check" and hope for a raise...I hate it when you got the nuts and no one bites...oh please raise so I can call on the turn and then check you again...by the river we will be all in...lol.

Uh huh. Here's one for you. I've got Ace/King of spades. flop is 4,5 Queen of spades. I'm short stack, so I double the blind and hope for a raise to get someone get committed. Turn is a red queen. I'm thinking maybe a set of ladies. Why is he just calling? He was big blind, so really he could have most anything pre flop. But I have the nut flush. River is 8 of spades. WTF. I'm all in. The SOB has the 6/7 of spades. Sonofabitch!

 

[25Caliber]

Alright, calm down. No, I dont go around assaulting people. Why is it so hard for you to grasp that GZ goofed here and there? Under the circumstances he was asking for trouble...you dont follow people around in the dark...period. Do you follow people around in the dark? If you did, could you blame someone for asking you why? Are ya gonna reach for your gun when they do?...take the blinders off and look at both sides for a change.

Except Zimmerman didn't reach for his gun.

If there is proof he reached for his gun, present it.

You do know that Zimmerman's phone was laying on the ground in what @jon_berzerk terms 'the debris field'.

How did it get there if it was in his pocket?

BECAUSE HE WAS REACHING FOR IT in his pocket when Martin attacked him.

And, as we discussed before...Martin wasn't fighting in a way that would protect him from being shot. Punching instead of wrestling.

He was fighting like he was pissed and wanted to beat the shit out of a guy that he didn't like following him.

Stick to the facts...

folks need to go look at the debris field

and they would know things like that

Do you have a link to the pictures of this? I cant find it.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Except Zimmerman didn't reach for his gun.

If there is proof he reached for his gun, present it.

You do know that Zimmerman's phone was laying on the ground in what @jon_berzerk terms 'the debris field'.

How did it get there if it was in his pocket?

BECAUSE HE WAS REACHING FOR IT in his pocket.

And, as we discussed before...Martin wasn't fighting in a way that would protect him from being shot. Punching instead of wrestling.

He was fighting like he was pissed and wanted to beat the shit out of a guy that he didn't like following him.

Stick to the facts...

Oh thats right he reached for a phone that wasnt there...thats right...lol. Do you believe EVERYTHING you hear...or what you want to hear?

I heard him say he reached to his right and oops my phone wasnt there and went ....hmmm...but your gun was there...hmmm...not you...you buy it hook line and sinker. It was to his benefit to say he was reaching for his phone and not a gun...get that?

Just like it was to his benefit to say that trayvon was standing around looking at houses in the rain, so that he doesnt come off as nut chasing black kids around the neighborhood...get that?

Try to weed thru some of the crap...it will help.

You just make this stuff up as you go, don't you.

So he called the police to report a suspicious person (he'd reported blacks, whites, and hispanics) so he could follow a black man around.

Newsflash...he could follow a black guy around without calling the police and later call him suspicious.

But he called the police instead.

You know the police had been called to Twin Lakes (Zimmeman's neighborhood) 402 times in the last year?

Zimmerman called 9 times in 18 months.

There's another half baked theory out the window.

i didnt know that the cops had been called to that place 402 times

that is a lot

 

[25Caliber]

Of course! Don't chase anyone out. Take as much of their money as possible and hope someone raises so you can bump them back.

Oh yeah..."check" and hope for a raise...I hate it when you got the nuts and no one bites...oh please raise so I can call on the turn and then check you again...by the river we will be all in...lol.

Uh huh. Here's one for you. I've got Ace/King of spades. flop is 4,5 Queen of spades. I'm short stack, so I double the blind and hope for a raise to get someone get committed. Turn is a red queen. I'm thinking maybe a set of ladies. Why is he just calling? He was big blind, so really he could have most anything pre flop. But I have the nut flush. River is 8 of spades. WTF. I'm all in. The SOB has the 6/7 of spades. Sonofabitch!

LMAO....dont you just feel like someone is out to get you? WHY ME LORD!? I cant hit the lottery, but what are the fn odds of that happening?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Except Zimmerman didn't reach for his gun.

If there is proof he reached for his gun, present it.

You do know that Zimmerman's phone was laying on the ground in what @jon_berzerk terms 'the debris field'.

How did it get there if it was in his pocket?

BECAUSE HE WAS REACHING FOR IT in his pocket when Martin attacked him.

And, as we discussed before...Martin wasn't fighting in a way that would protect him from being shot. Punching instead of wrestling.

He was fighting like he was pissed and wanted to beat the shit out of a guy that he didn't like following him.

Stick to the facts...

folks need to go look at the debris field

and they would know things like that

Do you have a link to the pictures of this? I cant find it.

i have not looked at if for a very long time

i will see if i have one laying around

talkleft probably does

 

[tinydancer]

Except Zimmerman didn't reach for his gun.

If there is proof he reached for his gun, present it.

You do know that Zimmerman's phone was laying on the ground in what @jon_berzerk terms 'the debris field'.

How did it get there if it was in his pocket?

BECAUSE HE WAS REACHING FOR IT in his pocket.

And, as we discussed before...Martin wasn't fighting in a way that would protect him from being shot. Punching instead of wrestling.

He was fighting like he was pissed and wanted to beat the shit out of a guy that he didn't like following him.

Stick to the facts...

Oh thats right he reached for a phone that wasnt there...thats right...lol. Do you believe EVERYTHING you hear...or what you want to hear?

I heard him say he reached to his right and oops my phone wasnt there and went ....hmmm...but your gun was there...hmmm...not you...you buy it hook line and sinker. It was to his benefit to say he was reaching for his phone and not a gun...get that?

Just like it was to his benefit to say that trayvon was standing around looking at houses in the rain, so that he doesnt come off as nut chasing black kids around the neighborhood...get that?

Try to weed thru some of the crap...it will help.

You just make this stuff up as you go, don't you.

So he called the police to report a suspicious person (he'd reported blacks, whites, and hispanics) so he could follow a black man around.

Newsflash...he could follow a black guy around without calling the police and later call him suspicious.

But he called the police instead.

You know the police had been called to Twin Lakes (Zimmeman's neighborhood) 402 times in the last year?

Zimmerman called 9 times in 18 months.

There's another half baked theory out the window.

The whole deal of "oh my gosh geeze louise you aren't supposed to follow anyone" what a pantload too that you never do that when you are on neighborhood watch.

Now George did stop. I wouldnt have. I would have followed Trayvon. I used to carry what's called a garlic crusher. Short piece with metal wrapped around the top. I could slip it down and swing it easy.

No way I was going to patrol with nothing. And that douche bag old lady who says NWatch arent supposed to patrol and only call the cops is insane. The reason most of us started a NW was because the cops never came.

 

[Missourian]

Oh thats right he reached for a phone that wasnt there...thats right...lol. Do you believe EVERYTHING you hear...or what you want to hear?

I heard him say he reached to his right and oops my phone wasnt there and went ....hmmm...but your gun was there...hmmm...not you...you buy it hook line and sinker. It was to his benefit to say he was reaching for his phone and not a gun...get that?

Just like it was to his benefit to say that trayvon was standing around looking at houses in the rain, so that he doesnt come off as nut chasing black kids around the neighborhood...get that?

Try to weed thru some of the crap...it will help.

You just make this stuff up as you go, don't you.

So he called the police to report a suspicious person (he'd reported blacks, whites, and hispanics) so he could follow a black man around.

Newsflash...he could follow a black guy around without calling the police and later call him suspicious.

But he called the police instead.

You know the police had been called to Twin Lakes (Zimmeman's neighborhood) 402 times in the last year?

Zimmerman called 9 times in 18 months.

There's another half baked theory out the window.

25 does not make stuff up. I back him totally. He's as objective of a person as you're ever going to find. Really.

Then why does he throw these theories out there as though they were truth incarnate when they are neither supported by the facts of the case nor the evidence.

It seams as though he has made up his mind and let the facts and evidence be damned.

 

[tinydancer]

Now I know a lot of Florida. And lord help you people my dad in law looks like he's getting ready to give us his house in Cocoa....

But someone help me on this particular gated community. Tell me about this place.

 

[Ernie S.]

i am a south paw

can shoot with either hand

i usually shoot right handed

same for bows

bowling

darts

I shoot my revolvers right handed, but with an odd grip that puts most of the recoil in my left palm. If I'm shooting one handed I'll use my left. I mangled the right hand and forearm pretty bad in a motorcycle accident and can feel the screws backing out and the plates buckling after 10 rounds right handed with the 629.

i have been pretty lucky so far

both of my hands are just fine

and shoot equally well with either

I find shooting a handgun left handed awkward. I think it has more to do with which eye to use. A rifle, I have no problem I can shoot equally as well from either side. A rifle kind of automatically decides which eye to use.
Kilt me a bar left handed.

 

[tinydancer]

You just make this stuff up as you go, don't you.

So he called the police to report a suspicious person (he'd reported blacks, whites, and hispanics) so he could follow a black man around.

Newsflash...he could follow a black guy around without calling the police and later call him suspicious.

But he called the police instead.

You know the police had been called to Twin Lakes (Zimmeman's neighborhood) 402 times in the last year?

Zimmerman called 9 times in 18 months.

There's another half baked theory out the window.

25 does not make stuff up. I back him totally. He's as objective of a person as you're ever going to find. Really.

Then why does he throw these theories out there as though they were truth incarnate when they are neither supported by the facts of the case nor the evidence.

It seams as though he has made up his mind and let the facts and evidence be damned.

Missourian that's why I can trust your stats. I've seen you long enough on this board to know you don't make mistakes and you never ever give a statistic without truth behind it.

 

[25Caliber]

Except Zimmerman didn't reach for his gun.

If there is proof he reached for his gun, present it.

You do know that Zimmerman's phone was laying on the ground in what @jon_berzerk terms 'the debris field'.

How did it get there if it was in his pocket?

BECAUSE HE WAS REACHING FOR IT in his pocket.

And, as we discussed before...Martin wasn't fighting in a way that would protect him from being shot. Punching instead of wrestling.

He was fighting like he was pissed and wanted to beat the shit out of a guy that he didn't like following him.

Stick to the facts...

Oh thats right he reached for a phone that wasnt there...thats right...lol. Do you believe EVERYTHING you hear...or what you want to hear?

I heard him say he reached to his right and oops my phone wasnt there and went ....hmmm...but your gun was there...hmmm...not you...you buy it hook line and sinker. It was to his benefit to say he was reaching for his phone and not a gun...get that?

Just like it was to his benefit to say that trayvon was standing around looking at houses in the rain, so that he doesnt come off as nut chasing black kids around the neighborhood...get that?

Try to weed thru some of the crap...it will help.

You just make this stuff up as you go, don't you.

So he called the police to report a suspicious person (he'd reported blacks, whites, and hispanics) so he could follow a black man around.

Newsflash...he could follow a black guy around without calling the police and later call him suspicious.

But he called the police instead.

You know the police had been called to Twin Lakes (Zimmeman's neighborhood) 402 times in the last year?

Zimmerman called 9 times in 18 months.

There's another half baked theory out the window.

Nope...i try not to make anything up...I also dont take every word I hear as the absolute truth either. I go through it all and then make up my mind. It clouds judgment if you are taking everything one side as the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Most of the time events will be embellished...not all but some...i have listed a couple where it was to his advantage to embellish. This dude thought he might be in trouble...he has admitted not knowing the laws. He admitted that on the Hannity interview. So do I think that certain things were embellished to not make him appear as the nut? Yeah, I do.

The reaching for the phone that wasnt there and the standing around looking at houses in the rain are two that I looked a little deeper into.