The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Missourian]

25 does not make stuff up. I back him totally. He's as objective of a person as you're ever going to find. Really.

Then why does he throw these theories out there as though they were truth incarnate when they are neither supported by the facts of the case nor the evidence.

It seams as though he has made up his mind and let the facts and evidence be damned.

Missourian that's why I can trust your stats. I've seen you long enough on this board to know you don't make mistakes and you never ever give a statistic without truth behind it.

Thanks T.D.

 

[25Caliber]

25

i found a couple of pictures of the scene

not the ones and map

probably the best i will do tonight

you can see however that it starts just short of the T

Photos: Crime scene night of Trayvon Martin shooting - DC Breaking Local News Weather Sports FOX 5 WTTG

Thanks, buddy...lookin at them now.

list of items found

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/357450/trayvon-martin-documents-ocr.pdf

i was just reading on talkleft

that there is a witness that says the altercation started just west of the T

and moved past his house

I was gonna say...looking at the picturesTrayvons body with the yellow cover on it is a little further down the walk than I had thought...i thought it was a little closer to the cross in the T than that.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Thanks, buddy...lookin at them now.

list of items found

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/357450/trayvon-martin-documents-ocr.pdf

i was just reading on talkleft

that there is a witness that says the altercation started just west of the T

and moved past his house

I was gonna say...looking at the picturesTrayvons body with the yellow cover on it is a little further down the walk than I had thought...i thought it was a little closer to the cross in the T than that.

yeah and the first item marked is by that reddish leaf on the sidewalk

which is by the T

it is the key chain flashlight

 

[Missourian]

I do it to try and get people to think out of their natural bias...thats why. My mind is no where near made it up...Im just looking at the possible thoughts of a dead man and not taking the every word of a man up for M2 as the absolute truth.

Im not hear to push a bias or an anger towards the protests of Al and Jessie...I dont let them influence my thinking...I dont see color...I see people. I look at both sides and try to imagine what would be going through their minds at that moment with none of the hindsight information that we are privy too.

I think GZ had every right to be suspicious...why? Because of the recent history of crime in the area...thats enough right there. He spotted someone running through a go between at what just happened to be a house that was burglarized 3 weeks earlier, that he called on btw and prevented and led to the arrest of the individual.

I also think that Trayvon had a right to be concerned with being followed through the complex in the dark and rain...then later on foot when he walked away. I can see the concern that both individuals would have...not just GZs.

I picture myself being a concerned citizen like GZ and on the other hand I picture trayvon being my son and being followed at night.

Fair enough.

I disagree with the lion's share of your theories, not because I wholly believe Martin, but because they cannot be proven.

Martin will live the rest of his life under a specter of doubt.

Both his own, and that of others.

But my interest lies in what can be proven...not what is suspected, or implied, or inferred, or contrived, or construed.

Exactly, and some of what GZ says cannot be proven...its his words. Its some of those that I look a little deeper. If its proven, then its a done deal...Im looking at what cant be proven from GZs mouth...ya see?

Like for example...

1) on the 911 call he states that Trayvon is "running" away. Kind of makes it look like Trayvon is caught with his hand in the cookie jar and is someone running from a crime. It even concerned the dispatch.

However, in his interview with Sean Hannity, he clarifies this and says Trayvon wasnt running at all, that he just began walking faster and into the courtyard.

2) When GZ gets out of the car, he appears to be running after tray so is not to lose the location of this "asshole" getting away. His breath changes and his tone changes...when tole "we dont you to do that"...he slows down and you can hear the difference in tone and breath and wind on the phone.

However, in his interview with Sean Hannity, he states that he was never running after trayvon when he got out of the car, that it was just the wind on the phone.

Now, I would have been willing to bet that he was running by the sounds on the phone...but GZ categorically denies that and says he was never running. Not a big deal, but you can see how some things are not always as they seem. Also, do you believe your ears or his words 4 months later in an interview? Sometimes you have to put pieces together and come to your own conclusions.

But is there proof he was running? Nope.

Is it possible that it was the wind? Yes.

So it's his word against your suspicion with no proof.

Can you see what I'm saying?

It's not what you know, it's what you can prove.

 

[25Caliber]

In fairness, I think he tosses turds out there that are a semi plausible alternative that he wants to bring up for discussion. I can dig it, but I think a lot of his conjecture flies in the face of logic.

Ummm you arent too far off...I respect your opinion and will always hear you out....I will also think about what you say and give attention to it. Its the least I can do for someone taking the time to post.

I just ask for the same courtesy. And I get that occasionally on here...however not nearly as much as I would like...lol.

I've always done that. I'm the biggest lets throw it at the wall and lets see if it sticks

I just did it way before you got here. Oh and by the way I love you guys. I have no idea where you testa and others have dropped in from but I love you to deathl You guys are into murder and crime. Now I love you forever.

I'm horribly in love with death, murder and crime. YAY other people are as crazy as me.

We like you too, TD. We are trial nuts that came from another forum not quite as cool as this one.

Of course, most of the people I hang around, find this stuff boring and they dont keep up...so here I am...speaking about it with people who do. Its been fun.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Ummm you arent too far off...I respect your opinion and will always hear you out....I will also think about what you say and give attention to it. Its the least I can do for someone taking the time to post.

I just ask for the same courtesy. And I get that occasionally on here...however not nearly as much as I would like...lol.

I've always done that. I'm the biggest lets throw it at the wall and lets see if it sticks

I just did it way before you got here. Oh and by the way I love you guys. I have no idea where you testa and others have dropped in from but I love you to deathl You guys are into murder and crime. Now I love you forever.

I'm horribly in love with death, murder and crime. YAY other people are as crazy as me.

We like you too, TD. We are trial nuts that came from another forum not quite as cool as this one.

Of course, most of the people I hang around, find this stuff boring and they dont keep up...so here I am...speaking about it with people who do. Its been fun.

i think it would be fun for a few of us

try and not get any info on a case of national concern

and just try to figure it out based what the state and defense present

using internet streaming of the trial coverage

and no influence from any media

 

[25Caliber]

Fair enough.

I disagree with the lion's share of your theories, not because I wholly believe Martin, but because they cannot be proven.

Martin will live the rest of his life under a specter of doubt.

Both his own, and that of others.

But my interest lies in what can be proven...not what is suspected, or implied, or inferred, or contrived, or construed.

Exactly, and some of what GZ says cannot be proven...its his words. Its some of those that I look a little deeper. If its proven, then its a done deal...Im looking at what cant be proven from GZs mouth...ya see?

Like for example...

1) on the 911 call he states that Trayvon is "running" away. Kind of makes it look like Trayvon is caught with his hand in the cookie jar and is someone running from a crime. It even concerned the dispatch.

However, in his interview with Sean Hannity, he clarifies this and says Trayvon wasnt running at all, that he just began walking faster and into the courtyard.

2) When GZ gets out of the car, he appears to be running after tray so is not to lose the location of this "asshole" getting away. His breath changes and his tone changes...when tole "we dont you to do that"...he slows down and you can hear the difference in tone and breath and wind on the phone.

However, in his interview with Sean Hannity, he states that he was never running after trayvon when he got out of the car, that it was just the wind on the phone.

Now, I would have been willing to bet that he was running by the sounds on the phone...but GZ categorically denies that and says he was never running. Not a big deal, but you can see how some things are not always as they seem. Also, do you believe your ears or his words 4 months later in an interview? Sometimes you have to put pieces together and come to your own conclusions.

But is there proof he was running? Nope.

Is it possible that it was the wind? Yes.

So it's his word against your suspicion with no proof.

Can you see what I'm saying?

It's not what you know, it's what you can prove.

Yeah...you just made my point. Things are not always what they seem. And dont be so all about the proof stuff...jurys can use their own common sense and judgment as to what they believe and they dont have to give a reason for it.

So alot of times...its the presentation that matters...not always what is proven without a shadow of doubt...just give the jury something to play with...they will put some pieces together using their own common sense. There is nothing that says the jury can only use what has been absolutely proven...thats subjective...they are the ones determining what they feel is proven to them or what makes sense to them.

A lot of things cant be proven...some things are circumstancial...get off the 100 percent proof kick...it sounds good, but its not reality in most cases.

 

[Mertex]

My God, what a Dumbed-Down MSM we have. There's no such thing as a 'White Hispanic.' That's just preposterous Media drivel. We no longer have a credible Media in this Country.

Wrong again, ronpaulitician.

Funny.. looking at a HR form for employment on race.. nothing there about any white hispanic.. cannot find any government designation for white hispanic either

Seems to me that you are trying to find some way to interject the 'whitey' race card in this.. just like the media did at the beginning

FYI, GZ is white (caucasian) and he is Hispanic (ethnicity). Hispanic is not a race, so it depends on what you are referring to, his race or ethnicity. But he is White and he is Hispanic, so White Hispanic is not an incorrect term.


The racial categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country and not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically, or genetically. In addition, it is recognized that the categories of the race item include racial and national origin or sociocultural groups. People may choose to report more than one race to indicate their racial mixture, such as “American Indian” and “White.” People who identify their origin as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be of any race.
Race Main - People and Households - U.S. Census Bureau

 

[25Caliber]

I've always done that. I'm the biggest lets throw it at the wall and lets see if it sticks

I just did it way before you got here. Oh and by the way I love you guys. I have no idea where you testa and others have dropped in from but I love you to deathl You guys are into murder and crime. Now I love you forever.

I'm horribly in love with death, murder and crime. YAY other people are as crazy as me.

We like you too, TD. We are trial nuts that came from another forum not quite as cool as this one.

Of course, most of the people I hang around, find this stuff boring and they dont keep up...so here I am...speaking about it with people who do. Its been fun.

i think it would be fun for a few of us

try and not get any info on a case of national concern

and just try to figure it out based what the state and defense present

using internet streaming of the trial coverage

and no influence from any media

Im in!!! Wonder what the next big trial will be...this will over in a few weeks...onto the next...lol.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Exactly, and some of what GZ says cannot be proven...its his words. Its some of those that I look a little deeper. If its proven, then its a done deal...Im looking at what cant be proven from GZs mouth...ya see?

Like for example...

1) on the 911 call he states that Trayvon is "running" away. Kind of makes it look like Trayvon is caught with his hand in the cookie jar and is someone running from a crime. It even concerned the dispatch.

However, in his interview with Sean Hannity, he clarifies this and says Trayvon wasnt running at all, that he just began walking faster and into the courtyard.

2) When GZ gets out of the car, he appears to be running after tray so is not to lose the location of this "asshole" getting away. His breath changes and his tone changes...when tole "we dont you to do that"...he slows down and you can hear the difference in tone and breath and wind on the phone.

However, in his interview with Sean Hannity, he states that he was never running after trayvon when he got out of the car, that it was just the wind on the phone.

Now, I would have been willing to bet that he was running by the sounds on the phone...but GZ categorically denies that and says he was never running. Not a big deal, but you can see how some things are not always as they seem. Also, do you believe your ears or his words 4 months later in an interview? Sometimes you have to put pieces together and come to your own conclusions.

But is there proof he was running? Nope.

Is it possible that it was the wind? Yes.

So it's his word against your suspicion with no proof.

Can you see what I'm saying?

It's not what you know, it's what you can prove.

Yeah...you just made my point. Things are not always what they seem. And dont be so all about the proof stuff...jurys can use their own common sense and judgment as to what they believe and they dont have to give a reason for it.

So alot of times...its the presentation that matters...not always what is proven without a shadow of doubt...just give the jury something to play with...they will put some pieces together using their own common sense. There is nothing that says the jury can only use what has been absolutely proven...thats subjective...they are the ones determining what they feel is proven to them or what makes sense to them.

A lot of things cant be proven...some things are circumstancial...get off the 100 percent proof kick...it sounds good, but its not reality in most cases.

the defense has been really good at getting the jury to like them

during jury selection for example

the jurors thanked omara for his explaining how the court system worked

notice every day the defense wears ties that stick out in your mind

omara always touches zimmerman

which suggests that he likes zimmerman so you should too

as opposed to Jodi Arias where her attorney said

hell he doesnt like her 9 of 10 days

--LOL

 

[25Caliber]

list of items found

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/357450/trayvon-martin-documents-ocr.pdf

i was just reading on talkleft

that there is a witness that says the altercation started just west of the T

and moved past his house

I was gonna say...looking at the picturesTrayvons body with the yellow cover on it is a little further down the walk than I had thought...i thought it was a little closer to the cross in the T than that.

yeah and the first item marked is by that reddish leaf on the sidewalk

which is by the T

it is the key chain flashlight

is it safe to assume that his flashlight was in his hand when he got hit and fell to the ground? That makes sense as to where GZ said he was punched. Since he says he reached with his right hand...I would assume the flashlight was in his left hand when punched.

 

[Missourian]

list of items found

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/357450/trayvon-martin-documents-ocr.pdf

i was just reading on talkleft

that there is a witness that says the altercation started just west of the T

and moved past his house

I was gonna say...looking at the picturesTrayvons body with the yellow cover on it is a little further down the walk than I had thought...i thought it was a little closer to the cross in the T than that.

yeah and the first item marked is by that reddish leaf on the sidewalk

which is by the T

it is the key chain flashlight

Link to crime scene schematic.


http://trayvontragedy.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/schematic-of-ground.jpg

http://marinadedave.com/storage/schematic legend.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1342199312537

marinadedave - Front Page - No Smoking*Gun?


Birdseye view.^^

 

[jon_berzerk]

We like you too, TD. We are trial nuts that came from another forum not quite as cool as this one.

Of course, most of the people I hang around, find this stuff boring and they dont keep up...so here I am...speaking about it with people who do. Its been fun.

i think it would be fun for a few of us

try and not get any info on a case of national concern

and just try to figure it out based what the state and defense present

using internet streaming of the trial coverage

and no influence from any media

Im in!!! Wonder what the next big trial will be...this will over in a few weeks...onto the next...lol.

most likely that athlete guy who they say he killed his buddy

 

[25Caliber]

i think it would be fun for a few of us

try and not get any info on a case of national concern

and just try to figure it out based what the state and defense present

using internet streaming of the trial coverage

and no influence from any media

Im in!!! Wonder what the next big trial will be...this will over in a few weeks...onto the next...lol.

most likely that athlete guy who they say he killed his buddy

Yep...I could get into that one. Plus, I gues they are also linking him to a drive-by killing in 2012. Add to that the person he shot in the arm and lost an eye as a result...this dude has some problems....ALLEGEDLY! LOL.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I was gonna say...looking at the picturesTrayvons body with the yellow cover on it is a little further down the walk than I had thought...i thought it was a little closer to the cross in the T than that.

yeah and the first item marked is by that reddish leaf on the sidewalk

which is by the T

it is the key chain flashlight

Link to crime scene schematic.


http://trayvontragedy.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/schematic-of-ground.jpg

http://marinadedave.com/storage/schematic legend.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1342199312537

marinadedave - Front Page - No Smoking*Gun?


Birdseye view.^^

thanks

 

[Missourian]

Exactly, and some of what GZ says cannot be proven...its his words. Its some of those that I look a little deeper. If its proven, then its a done deal...Im looking at what cant be proven from GZs mouth...ya see?

Like for example...

1) on the 911 call he states that Trayvon is "running" away. Kind of makes it look like Trayvon is caught with his hand in the cookie jar and is someone running from a crime. It even concerned the dispatch.

However, in his interview with Sean Hannity, he clarifies this and says Trayvon wasnt running at all, that he just began walking faster and into the courtyard.

2) When GZ gets out of the car, he appears to be running after tray so is not to lose the location of this "asshole" getting away. His breath changes and his tone changes...when tole "we dont you to do that"...he slows down and you can hear the difference in tone and breath and wind on the phone.

However, in his interview with Sean Hannity, he states that he was never running after trayvon when he got out of the car, that it was just the wind on the phone.

Now, I would have been willing to bet that he was running by the sounds on the phone...but GZ categorically denies that and says he was never running. Not a big deal, but you can see how some things are not always as they seem. Also, do you believe your ears or his words 4 months later in an interview? Sometimes you have to put pieces together and come to your own conclusions.

But is there proof he was running? Nope.

Is it possible that it was the wind? Yes.

So it's his word against your suspicion with no proof.

Can you see what I'm saying?

It's not what you know, it's what you can prove.

Yeah...you just made my point. Things are not always what they seem. And dont be so all about the proof stuff...jurys can use their own common sense and judgment as to what they believe and they dont have to give a reason for it.

So alot of times...its the presentation that matters...not always what is proven without a shadow of doubt...just give the jury something to play with...they will put some pieces together using their own common sense. There is nothing that says the jury can only use what has been absolutely proven...thats subjective...they are the ones determining what they feel is proven to them or what makes sense to them.

A lot of things cant be proven...some things are circumstancial...get off the 100 percent proof kick...it sounds good, but its not reality in most cases.

Speculation runs rampant.

We have no idea what happened.

What you are saying is a good lawyer can convince you anything is true.

I'm only interested in what can be proven.

If you can't prove it, it didn't happen.

 

[25Caliber]

But is there proof he was running? Nope.

Is it possible that it was the wind? Yes.

So it's his word against your suspicion with no proof.

Can you see what I'm saying?

It's not what you know, it's what you can prove.

Yeah...you just made my point. Things are not always what they seem. And dont be so all about the proof stuff...jurys can use their own common sense and judgment as to what they believe and they dont have to give a reason for it.

So alot of times...its the presentation that matters...not always what is proven without a shadow of doubt...just give the jury something to play with...they will put some pieces together using their own common sense. There is nothing that says the jury can only use what has been absolutely proven...thats subjective...they are the ones determining what they feel is proven to them or what makes sense to them.

A lot of things cant be proven...some things are circumstancial...get off the 100 percent proof kick...it sounds good, but its not reality in most cases.

the defense has been really good at getting the jury to like them

during jury selection for example

the jurors thanked omara for his explaining how the court system worked

notice every day the defense wears ties that stick out in your mind

omara always touches zimmerman

which suggests that he likes zimmerman so you should too

as opposed to Jodi Arias where her attorney said

hell he doesnt like her 9 of 10 days

--LOL

Yeah, and nurmi would never sit right next to her in court or even look at her. Youre right...I think the defense believes in their case...a lot of times it seems the defense is dealing with someone who is guilty and its an uphill battle to get them off on a techincality or a mistrial or a hung jury.

You can tell this team believes in their client and what they are doing.

Good catch on Omara...I hadnt noticed that.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Im in!!! Wonder what the next big trial will be...this will over in a few weeks...onto the next...lol.

most likely that athlete guy who they say he killed his buddy

Yep...I could get into that one. Plus, I gues they are also linking him to a drive-by killing in 2012. Add to that the person he shot in the arm and lost an eye as a result...this dude has some problems....ALLEGEDLY! LOL.

we will have to see if any others want to do it to

and set up some rules

it would be fun

 

[jon_berzerk]

Nope...i dont blame the victim for defending himself at all. I blame the victim for being on that sidewalk following a teen in the dark and rain holding a flashlight and holstering a pistol.

Lets think about this...you pack a pistol because you think you may need it. So why put yourself in a situation where you very well may need to use it. GZ increased the odds of this possibility by following a teen in the dark...all im saying. Not illegal, but not smart and against the recommendation of law enforcement for that very reason.

Follow me like GZ was and you find yourself in the same situation...people dont like being followed in the dark...period....some will run home and some may ask the person why they are being followed. Go reaching for something at that exact moment and who knows how one person will act from another.

Of course everyone in here in hindsight would have done the absolute correct thing...lol. In hindsight of course.

Youre a grown adult...a man...some creep is following you in the dark and rain...and you take off running for your house...lmao....most would, certainly I would turn around and go hey dude wtf is your problem?

You keep claiming Zimmerman reached for something,I haven't seen that claimed anywhere else, where are you getting that from?

Hey, sgt...thanks for your service, btw...whole family of military here.

Here is where I am getting it...the entire explanation (reaching, etc,) plays out from about the 1:00 to 1:45 mark. Really shocked that the prosecution hasnt latched onto this.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nARWOZO4Kg]George Zimmerman's Police Interview after Trayvon Martin Shooting - YouTube[/ame]

LOL...just look how is right hand looks in the still video.

Really shocked that the prosecution hasnt latched onto this

state has not rested yet

it is expected that they will use some video

they still might use that angle

 

[Missourian]

Have you ever tried your hand at unsolved murders?

Speculation gets so out of control that you lose the thread of what is true and what is pure conjecture.

It's a nightmare of epic proportions.

Everyone has a theory...

And they defend it like some here do, using the age old techniques... illogical and irrational.

Stick to what you can prove, it will lead you to what is true and what isn't true much more surely than half baked theories with no supporting evidence.