The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[25Caliber]

But is there proof he was running? Nope.

Is it possible that it was the wind? Yes.

So it's his word against your suspicion with no proof.

Can you see what I'm saying?

It's not what you know, it's what you can prove.

Yeah...you just made my point. Things are not always what they seem. And dont be so all about the proof stuff...jurys can use their own common sense and judgment as to what they believe and they dont have to give a reason for it.

So alot of times...its the presentation that matters...not always what is proven without a shadow of doubt...just give the jury something to play with...they will put some pieces together using their own common sense. There is nothing that says the jury can only use what has been absolutely proven...thats subjective...they are the ones determining what they feel is proven to them or what makes sense to them.

A lot of things cant be proven...some things are circumstancial...get off the 100 percent proof kick...it sounds good, but its not reality in most cases.

Speculation runs rampant.

We have no idea what happened.

What you are saying is a good lawyer can convince you anything is true.

I'm only interested in what can be proven.

If you can't prove it, it didn't happen.

Yeah...good lawyers are nice to have. Im not trying to make light of it...its just that in a lot of cases you dont have audio, video and an eyewitness of the entire crime in progress. You have to present it in a way that you believe is logical and the jury puts the pieces together in deliberations. You do the best you can.

So far, to me, its the prosecution who appears to be reaching and its the defense trying to get to the truth...thats just my opinion.

I said at the beginning that this would be like a flip flop of what we are used to...where normally its the prosecution putting all the evidence together and getting to the truth and its the defense throwing out blinders to prevent it.

 

[tinydancer]

I know the area fairly well. I lived in Orlando.....but more importantly, most of my best friends live in Melbourne Beach. I can ask them if you want.

Are you serious? I know Melbourne very well. I used to surf there. There's a point thats killer.
I'm a Ormond Beach baby.

I surf Sabastian....we're gonna get along great!

I'm so old but I still rock I'm so glad to run into you.

 

[25Caliber]

Have you ever tried your hand at unsolved murders?

Speculation gets so out of control that you lose the thread of what is true and what is pure conjecture.

It's a nightmare of epic proportions.

Everyone has a theory...

And they defend it like some here do, using the age old techniques... illogical and irrational.

Stick to what you can prove, it will lead you to what is true and what isn't true much more surely than half baked theories with no supporting evidence.

Well I try not to let speculation get out of control. I dont throw it out there just to argue...thats insane to me and no fun. I put things out there that I believe or that I believe to be logical based on what I can see with my own eyes or reasonably come to a plausible conclusion to.

I always look at most likely...not infinite what if possibilities...it works for me.

 

[25Caliber]

Are you serious? I know Melbourne very well. I used to surf there. There's a point thats killer.
I'm a Ormond Beach baby.

I surf Sabastian....we're gonna get along great!

I'm so old but I still rock I'm so glad to run into you.

ITC rocks! Her taste in music is superb!!! IMHO of course.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I was gonna say...looking at the picturesTrayvons body with the yellow cover on it is a little further down the walk than I had thought...i thought it was a little closer to the cross in the T than that.

yeah and the first item marked is by that reddish leaf on the sidewalk

which is by the T

it is the key chain flashlight

is it safe to assume that his flashlight was in his hand when he got hit and fell to the ground? That makes sense as to where GZ said he was punched. Since he says he reached with his right hand...I would assume the flashlight was in his left hand when punched.

the key chain flashlight was up by the T

the other flashlight was right by where martin laid

does he mention it in the interview video by chance

 

[tinydancer]

Ummm you arent too far off...I respect your opinion and will always hear you out....I will also think about what you say and give attention to it. Its the least I can do for someone taking the time to post.

I just ask for the same courtesy. And I get that occasionally on here...however not nearly as much as I would like...lol.

I've always done that. I'm the biggest lets throw it at the wall and lets see if it sticks

I just did it way before you got here. Oh and by the way I love you guys. I have no idea where you testa and others have dropped in from but I love you to deathl You guys are into murder and crime. Now I love you forever.

I'm horribly in love with death, murder and crime. YAY other people are as crazy as me.

We like you too, TD. We are trial nuts that came from another forum not quite as cool as this one.

Of course, most of the people I hang around, find this stuff boring and they dont keep up...so here I am...speaking about it with people who do. Its been fun.

Don't you dare leave us.

You are wonderous. Now just because I love you over the whole deal over crime....

You guys are awesome. And I love you to death. Stay will you?

 

[Missourian]

yeah and the first item marked is by that reddish leaf on the sidewalk

which is by the T

it is the key chain flashlight

is it safe to assume that his flashlight was in his hand when he got hit and fell to the ground? That makes sense as to where GZ said he was punched. Since he says he reached with his right hand...I would assume the flashlight was in his left hand when punched.

the key chain flashlight was up by the T

the other flashlight was right by where martin laid

does he mention it in the interview video by chance

I think he said it didn't work...that the battery was dead.

Here is the link to the video of the walk through.

WATCH: Video Shows George Zimmerman Reenacting Fight with Trayvon Martin | TIME.com

 

[jon_berzerk]

is it safe to assume that his flashlight was in his hand when he got hit and fell to the ground? That makes sense as to where GZ said he was punched. Since he says he reached with his right hand...I would assume the flashlight was in his left hand when punched.

the key chain flashlight was up by the T

the other flashlight was right by where martin laid

does he mention it in the interview video by chance

I think he said it didn't work...that the battery was dead.

Here is the link to the video of the walk through.

WATCH: Video Shows George Zimmerman Reenacting Fight with Trayvon Martin | TIME.com

thanks

i wonder why he didnt clunk martin with the bigger flashlight

 

[25Caliber]

I've always done that. I'm the biggest lets throw it at the wall and lets see if it sticks

I just did it way before you got here. Oh and by the way I love you guys. I have no idea where you testa and others have dropped in from but I love you to deathl You guys are into murder and crime. Now I love you forever.

I'm horribly in love with death, murder and crime. YAY other people are as crazy as me.

We like you too, TD. We are trial nuts that came from another forum not quite as cool as this one.

Of course, most of the people I hang around, find this stuff boring and they dont keep up...so here I am...speaking about it with people who do. Its been fun.

Don't you dare leave us.

You are wonderous. Now just because I love you over the whole deal over crime....

You guys are awesome. And I love you to death. Stay will you?

I dont see us leaving...we like it here. And I like just about everyone here...lol...even the ones who disagree...I dont hold grudges...Ill have a beer with any of ya and talk about something else.

I like thinkers...deep thinkers...no time for lazy ones.

 

[Missourian]

the key chain flashlight was up by the T

the other flashlight was right by where martin laid

does he mention it in the interview video by chance

I think he said it didn't work...that the battery was dead.

Here is the link to the video of the walk through.

WATCH: Video Shows George Zimmerman Reenacting Fight with Trayvon Martin | TIME.com

8:13 he says the flashlight is dead.

 

[Missourian]

the key chain flashlight was up by the T

the other flashlight was right by where martin laid

does he mention it in the interview video by chance

I think he said it didn't work...that the battery was dead.

Here is the link to the video of the walk through.

WATCH: Video Shows George Zimmerman Reenacting Fight with Trayvon Martin | TIME.com

thanks

i wonder why he didnt clunk martin with the bigger flashlight

I don't know what happened to it after it didn't work.

Did it end up in a pocket?

That it 'reached escape velocity' leads me to believe the phone and flashlight were in his jacket pockets.

That's how they ended up on the ground down there...shallow jacket pockets.

That also explains why his phone wasn't in the 'usual' pocket he was used to carrying it in...it was cold that night and he was wearing a jacket, when ordinarily he would not have had the jacket on, and his phone would be in his front right pocket.

That his keys ended up at the T suggests that he was in fact headed back to his truck, keys in hand.

 

[jon_berzerk]

the key chain flashlight was up by the T

the other flashlight was right by where martin laid

does he mention it in the interview video by chance

I think he said it didn't work...that the battery was dead.

Here is the link to the video of the walk through.

WATCH: Video Shows George Zimmerman Reenacting Fight with Trayvon Martin | TIME.com

8:13 he says the flashlight is dead.

i always thought martin was on his back after the incident

i wondered how he got face down

but the video cleared that up

zim says he got on his back

meaning martin was face down

 

[25Caliber]

I think he said it didn't work...that the battery was dead.

Here is the link to the video of the walk through.

WATCH: Video Shows George Zimmerman Reenacting Fight with Trayvon Martin | TIME.com

thanks

i wonder why he didnt clunk martin with the bigger flashlight

I don't know what happened to it after it didn't work.

Did it end up in a pocket?

That it 'reached escape velocity' leads me to believe the phone and flashlight were in his jacket pockets.

That's how they ended up on the ground down there...shallow jacket pockets.

That also explains why his phone wasn't in the 'usual' pocket he was used to carrying it in...it was cold that night and he was wearing a jacket, when ordinarily he would not have had the jacket on, and his phone would be in his front right pocket.

That his keys ended up at the T suggests that he was in fact headed back to his truck, keys in hand.

That makes sense.

 

[Oldstyle]

I have no idea...he is running up the walk and then down the sidewalk and in between the two buildings in the rain...while on the phone...yeah he could be breathing heavy for sure. Hell, look at the breathing sound that is coming from GZs phone as he immediately starts running...that was how the dispatch thought he was following.

So yeah, he most definitely could have been breathing hard for sure. It was dark, it was raining, it was abnormally cool that night, hes on the phone...hell yeah it would have sounded like the kid was out of breath.

Look at the distance down the sidewalk...we are talking about a stretch of less than two minutes according to GZ and the 911 call...GZ also does not describe Trayvon as actually running he describes him as walking briskly in his interview with sean hannity...GZ specifically says he was not running, but that he meant he was walking faster and getting away.

The the distance between the T in the sidewalk and the fiances house is more than 120 yards (more than a football field)...so no I dont believe in a span of less than two minutes he went that entire distance and back. Thats why I dont think it makes sense with the timeline and GZs own account of the events. He cut up the pathway and went right...when GZ came up the path, he looked and saw no one...suggesting that by now, Tray had cut between the buildings.

You don't think a 17 year old kid who plays linebacker on the football team can run 120 yards in a minute? You might want to recalibrate your theory, 25. The average time for a high school football player in the 40 is 5.35 SECONDS. So how long do you think it's going to take for Trayvon to run 120 yards? Just to make it perfectly obvious that he had plenty of time to reach the condo...let's multiply that 5.35 seconds by TEN! Even at 53.5 seconds he's still WAY inside of the timeline from when George Zimmerman lost sight of him, got out of his SUV to give chase and when the girlfriend called back to find Martin winded outside of the condo. College football teams go to Florida to recruit players because it's a noted hotbed for "fast" players. You don't play linebacker at the high school level in this State unless you've got some speed. It just isn't happening.

Read what I said...my god...why are you putting words in my mouth...read. Yes its highly possible...just not logical to me...not logical at all!

I look at most likely. Its most likely to me that he had not traveled the entire distance of that last building...instead he cut through the back and stopped somewhere in between the two buildings or in that area.

You guys are acting like the kid was in an all out sprint for the state record and making that fit your theory. It was raining, GZ said he was walking briskly to Hannity....not sprinting...he said he cut to the right and then he followed immediately after when he came up the walk he looked to his right and there was no Trayvon...suggesting that trayvon most likely cut through the buildings. GZ continued walking up the sidewalk to the street...came back down the path towards his truck and there was Trayvon asking him what the problem was.

Im just looking at the most logical explanation...not infinite possibilities of a track star.

Jon_Berzerk said why would he be breathing heavy at that short distance...well I explained that the distance he went was further than GZ did and GZ was breathing heavy from the get go...you could hear it on the 911 call. So again, it is logical to assume that trayvon could very well have been breathing heavy going a distance twice as far as GZ...lol...add talking on the phone as GZ was and in the rain on cool night in the dark...yeah he would be breathing heavy and it would sound even worse on the other end of the phone as we found out on the 911 tape...you can tell the second GZ started running and immediately when he stopped. DD most likely heard the same from Trayvon. Your running or walking fast and your breathing changes...pretty simple.

But there is not acknowlegement from you or him on that logical possibility...instead we are on to something else....lol...and that just gets passed over.

Once again your logic is strained. It's the Prosecution's witness Rachel who stated that Martin ran, that he was out of breath and that he was by the condo when she called him back after getting disconnected.

Zimmerman told Hannity that Martin was walking briskly before Zimmerman got out of the SUV. What seems apparent (since Zimmerman can't find Martin when he tries to follow) is that Martin did indeed do what he told Rachel Jenteal that he was going to do...namely RUN. As for why George Zimmerman was breathing heavily? In case you haven't discerned this yet, George Zimmerman is not and was not in the best of shape. He was sucking wind simply from trying to walk after Martin. Martin was a 17 year old football player. Do you remember when you were 17? If you were an athlete then you wouldn't have been breathing hard from walking a hundred yards. You might be if you just ran for a hundred and twenty. Martin was not talking on the phone when he made that run by the way. He either hung up or lost the connection. I don't recall any testimony from Rachel Jenteal where she claimed to have heard Trayvon Martin "running". That happened when she wasn't on the phone with him.

 

[The Rabbi]

When you're getting your head beat into the ground=victim. In florida you can use deadly force when you're getting killed.

And yet there is a trial where Zimmerman has to prove he murdered the kid in self defense..

Go figure.

Do any of you know what you're talking about? At all?

And if the media hadn't whipped up a frenzy Zimmerman would be going about his business. Recall that police at the scene and the assistant DA released him that very night.

I seriously doubt you have any idea what is involved in this case beyond "a racist white man killed a young black man."

 

[candycorn]

If I was his attorney, I wouldn't let Zimmerman take the stand.

Good thing you aren't an attorney. Zimmerman will be a very credible witness,his own best.

I asked one of my customers what he thought. He said the jury will vote to convict in the belief that if they don't they might encounter physical danger from angry Negro mobs. I hadn't considered that. He might be right. If so, it will be the death knell for our justice system.

We'll see what happens...I don't think the jury will convict of murder. Next time, just give the customers their Big Mac and leave them alone.

 

[candycorn]

Why would Zimmerman even have to at this point? The Prosecution's own witnesses have proven the Defense's case.

This is what I'm saying. I think I may not call a single witness if this keeps up.

 

[The Rabbi]

You keep claiming Zimmerman reached for something,I haven't seen that claimed anywhere else, where are you getting that from?

Hey, sgt...thanks for your service, btw...whole family of military here.

Here is where I am getting it...the entire explanation (reaching, etc,) plays out from about the 1:00 to 1:45 mark. Really shocked that the prosecution hasnt latched onto this.



LOL...just look how is right hand looks in the still video.

Really shocked that the prosecution hasnt latched onto this

state has not rested yet

it is expected that they will use some video

they still might use that angle

All Zimmerman has to do is tell the same story on the stand and he walks. Absent any physical evidence to the contrary. It was very vivid and very believable. The gun was obviously carried IWB. His cell phone was in his front pocket, maybe. There is no way that Martin knew Zimmerman had a gun until it was exposed when he was on the ground.
I have never seen a clearer case of self defense than this one.

 

[The Rabbi]

If I was his attorney, I wouldn't let Zimmerman take the stand.

Good thing you aren't an attorney. Zimmerman will be a very credible witness,his own best.

I asked one of my customers what he thought. He said the jury will vote to convict in the belief that if they don't they might encounter physical danger from angry Negro mobs. I hadn't considered that. He might be right. If so, it will be the death knell for our justice system.

We'll see what happens...I don't think the jury will convict of murder. Next time, just give the customers their Big Mac and leave them alone.

Are you hallucinating? At least you understand Zimmerman is innocent.

 

[Sallow]

Nope...i dont blame the victim for defending himself at all. I blame the victim for being on that sidewalk following a teen in the dark and rain holding a flashlight and holstering a pistol.

Lets think about this...you pack a pistol because you think you may need it. So why put yourself in a situation where you very well may need to use it. GZ increased the odds of this possibility by following a teen in the dark...all im saying. Not illegal, but not smart and against the recommendation of law enforcement for that very reason.

Follow me like GZ was and you find yourself in the same situation...people dont like being followed in the dark...period....some will run home and some may ask the person why they are being followed. Go reaching for something at that exact moment and who knows how one person will act from another.

Of course everyone in here in hindsight would have done the absolute correct thing...lol. In hindsight of course.

Youre a grown adult...a man...some creep is following you in the dark and rain...and you take off running for your house...lmao....most would, certainly I would turn around and go hey dude wtf is your problem?

You keep claiming Zimmerman reached for something,I haven't seen that claimed anywhere else, where are you getting that from?

Hey, sgt...thanks for your service, btw...whole family of military here.

Here is where I am getting it...the entire explanation (reaching, etc,) plays out from about the 1:00 to 1:45 mark. Really shocked that the prosecution hasnt latched onto this.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nARWOZO4Kg]George Zimmerman's Police Interview after Trayvon Martin Shooting - YouTube[/ame]

LOL...just look how is right hand looks in the still video.

That's got to seal the deal for Zimmerman.

It's filled with all sorts of inconsistencies.