The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[GWV5903]

I think a defendant should always take the stand, it is the only way to produce a fair trial...

You need to watch more courtroom drama on TV.
It's his right, yes, but pretty much his lawyers' call.

H, I realize this is not happening, but I believe the defendant should always have to testify...

Granted it's not going to happen often, but it should...

 

[RKMBrown]

If it was "just as likely" that GZ assualted TM as TM assualting GZ and if it is just as likely that Martin acted illegally and was in the wrong as it is for GZ to have acted illegally and be in the wrong then..........

The prosecution loses as they must establish their case beyond a reasonable doubt and that includes disproving self defense beyond a rerasonable doubt. Can you do so?

Not to my satisfaction... IMO the case is invol. manslaughter.

Wrong answer, since the burden is not upon Zimmerman to prove anything. It is on the prosecution and you are the one suggesting the evidence is in equipose. My only conclusion is that you have nothing other than emotion which is driving your conclusion.

My proof for invol. manslaughter was provided by the star witness. George Zimmerman. He provided all the evidence needed in his own testimony.

 

[MarcATL]

There are photograprhs. He has injuries where he says he did.

It's the eye witness who says Trayvon was on him ground and pound style.

None of those things have been proven to be lies. You want them to be lies. You want Zimmerman to be guilty for some reason. But you can't let emotions make you ignore the evidence.

The brutal beating he got described having his head repeatedly slammed on the concrete are not evidenced in the photos. I've seen 'em all. He got banged up, but nothing near what you'd expect given HIS TESTIMONY of massive head slamming and concrete beating.

There were barely any drops of blood on the concrete. He's BUSTED!

Poor Marc. There's reasonable doubt. Zimmerman was only brought to trial for political reasons because of the media malpractice involved in making the nation think he had killed a 12-year-old choirboy. The prosecution doesn't have any material to make a case with. The witnesses they call do more for the defense than for the prosecution. Zimmerman was getting banged up, his gun was exposed, Martin was a wild man, and Zimmerman feared for his life. How you think that the 6 people on that jury will be sure Zimmerman committed murder is baffling. Well, it would be baffling if I thought you really thought that.

Whenever you Zimmerman supporters get the facts exposing his lies thrown in your faces, you always resort to the "reasonable doubt" defense. Knowing that you've successfully muddied the waters so that there's "reasonable doubt." However, you know that your guy is a pathological liar.

Put his A$$ on the stand.

 

[GWV5903]

I think a defendant should always take the stand, it is the only way to produce a fair trial...

Right church, wrong pew. Usually, it is a very bad idea for the defendant to testify. They say things they think will help them but which actually sink them. Also, there is the matter of the defendant's record as well as the ability of the prosecution to impeach the testimony of a testifying defendant.

Having the defendant testify has nothing to do with a fair trial. Now, there are certain types of cases where it is essential for the defendant to testify. Those cases are rare, but they do exist. I think the Zimmerman case is one of them. But, as I said, it has nothing to do with a fair trial.

I know it is, but we all want justice right? Make the defendant testify...

 

[MarcATL]

Rachel Jeantel is the witness that puts TM at his house before the altercation.

You guys were pushing the double-back theory BEFORE we knew about Jeantel.

Nice try.

Find it and quote me sir, because I said no such thing.

Are you "you guys?"

 

[pioneerpete]

Nobody told GZ to stay in his car. Following is not a felony that allows the use of lawful self-defense by TM. It is the state's burden to prove that GZ threw the first punch. No evidence of this. All witness testimony backs GZ account. The police involved in the investigation said that GZ story adds up and that the minor inconsistencies that have people jumping through hoops about are not important. There is no threshold of injuries that one must sustain to justify lawful self-defense when confronted by felony assault. Again it is the burden of the state to prove that TM was not assaulting GZ. All of this has been stated during proceedings since 6.24.13.

I would also like you to keep in mind that the defense has not begun presenting its case. These have all been prosecution witnesses and submitted evidence.

 

[ScienceRocks]

If this isn't about racism. Why is the entire fucking media following this like the world trade center was destroyed again?

Why is the black community threatening to riot?
Why are people so blind to the evidence. This goes a thousand times for the media as they side totally against Zimmerman.

WHY?

Everything screams that Zimmerman was well within his right of self defense. Our media and the entire left doesn't seem to care.

 

[MarcATL]

Nobody told GZ to stay in his car. Following is not a felony that allows the use of lawful self-defense by TM. It is the state's burden to prove that GZ threw the first punch. No evidence of this. All witness testimony backs GZ account. The police involved in the investigation said that GZ story adds up and that the minor inconsistencies that have people jumping through hoops about are not important. There is no threshold of injuries that one must sustain to justify lawful self-defense when confronted by felony assault. Again it is the burden of the state to prove that TM was not assaulting GZ. All of this has been stated during proceedings since 6.24.13.

I would also like you to keep in mind that the defense has not begun presenting its case. These have all been prosecution witnesses and submitted evidence.

So do you believe that Zimmerman should take the stand?

 

[TemplarKormac]

[MENTION=20450]MarcATL[/MENTION]:

Zimmerman doesn't need to be called to the stand. His entire testimony was played on tape before the court, when he gave it to Investigator Serino. The defense should feel no reason to be compelled to call him to the stand.

 

[RKMBrown]

And what are you basing yours on? Logically, Martin never saw the gun. BANG! He assaulted Mr. Zimmerman. BANG! The first punch breaks Zimmerman's nose and knocks him down. BANG! Martin jumps on top and starts beating Zimmerman senseless. BANG! Zimmerman pleads for help. BANG! Martin is dead.

Not based on imagination, or at least not on wild speculation, but based on Zimmerman's account which has been given credibility by the recording of the call to dispatch, an autopsy report, the testimony of the only witness to see what happened immediately before the gun shot and the testimony of the Physician's Assistant and paramedics that examined Zimmerman's injuries.
It's safe to assume that at least until the point where the 2 men met face to face, George Zimmerman's account was pretty much spot on, yet for some reason, you assume at that point, Zimmerman started lying. WHY?

You must offer more than a motive to depict the events in a light favorable to himself. You can't put a man in jail for life because you expect a man with a gun to lie.

I don't know why Zimmerman is a pathological liar. But he is. Already proven, he was found guilty of lying about the money folks were donating to him to the Judge. He lied about his father on his application for police officer. Many many lies. Justified? I look at him, I listen to what he says.. and I see a pathological liar. Murderer? Nah. Wannabe.. coward, liar, ...ayup guy killed a teem to save himself from a couple slaps. Invol. Manslaughter.

Pathological liar??? Come ON! He called his dad a judge instead of a magistrate on an application? He lied about his finances so he could get out on bond and have something left over to support his wife and save his home from foreclosure? Give me a break!

Just wait until Martin's character is brought up by the Defense. I mean, there is some shit there that will have people wanting to dig him up and put him on trial.

Judge, Jury, and Executioner? George was wreck-less. The teen died due to George' wreck-less actions. Open and shut case for the lesser charge of invol. manslaughter. Self defense does not excuse George' wreck-less actions.

 

[Cuyo]

I don't believe he shouldn't.

I assume that should read 'I don't believe he should, and don't believe he will.'

That's my vote. I don't think it would be in his best interests.

 

[KissMy]

He didn't "act properly" at all. He wasn't a Law Enforcement Officer and there are laws against following and menacing others. Most Neighborhood Watch Folks are cautioned against patrolling armed as well, for obvious reasons. He had zero standing to do what he did when he got out of his car and followed a frightened kid. And it seems that he didn't have the proper training to handle the situation.

It's also becoming more and more clear that he had an agenda. And that agenda was to hunt and kill a human being.

You made that stupid shit up. You must be on crack!

Zimmerman was not menacing or Trayvon would have said so to DeeDee. There is no law against following, reporting or asking questions & it does not make him the aggressor or the one who started the fight. The aggressor & fight starter is the one who makes the first strike or attempt to injure someone. There is no evidence, witness or marks on TM's body to indicate GZ was ever the aggressor of fight starter.

 

[Gracie]

You call it smoke and mirrors...I call it a logical response from someone being followed. Why is it so clear and acceptable to you that MR Z be suspicsious of Trayvon, but on the other hand you cant understand how someone might be creeped out and irritated that someone is following him in the dark and rain?

For the life of me I cant see why so many cant empathize with that.

I don't understand someone claiming to be afraid and creeped out confronting the person he or she is afraid of.

I don't empathize for one reason. Before, I felt a bit bad about the whole thing. Wanna know who turned me off? My daddy always said birds of a feather flock together. RACHEL is the one that made me see Trayvon in a different light. I was already a bit surprised at the REAL pics of him flashing the gang signs and flipping the bird and acting all ghetto. But RACHEL was his friend and they hung out A LOT. And look at Rachel and her attitude. What makes you think Trayvon did not have the SAME ATTITUDE when he confronted Zimmerman?

So explain that in laymans terms. You may sway me back to thinking poor little pony riding Trayvon was not acting like an idiot along with Zimmerman. But don't hold your breath.

 

[pioneerpete]

Nobody told GZ to stay in his car. Following is not a felony that allows the use of lawful self-defense by TM. It is the state's burden to prove that GZ threw the first punch. No evidence of this. All witness testimony backs GZ account. The police involved in the investigation said that GZ story adds up and that the minor inconsistencies that have people jumping through hoops about are not important. There is no threshold of injuries that one must sustain to justify lawful self-defense when confronted by felony assault. Again it is the burden of the state to prove that TM was not assaulting GZ. All of this has been stated during proceedings since 6.24.13.

I would also like you to keep in mind that the defense has not begun presenting its case. These have all been prosecution witnesses and submitted evidence.

So do you believe that Zimmerman should take the stand?

If I was his lawyer, I would not put him on the stand. He told his account of the story today without having to be cross examined. From what I understand his interview with Sean Hannity will be introduced as well.

 

[RKMBrown]

So someone follows you in the dark and rain all the way through the complex and now on foot...you ask him what the problem is and he goes frantically reaching for something he cant find...and you assume its a phone...a logical person is supposed to assume he is reaching for a phone?

Not buying what you are selling. I cant even believe you are buying what you are selling.

And you changed it to proving its case...Im talking about a specific event...that has to be logical and reasonable...that with other logical and reasonable circumstances can lead to proof beyond reasonable doubt to a juror...and they dont have to tell you why or show you the evidence that led them to their decision. Its a conglomeration of all the evidence...they decide what is proved in their mind or reasonable in their mind.

But fair enough...its your opinion.

And the way this case is being presented, I agree with you...the six jurors will acquit him based on what they are getting so far...agree.

Of course, I would be watching, but I can't see a reasonable person rushing a man he thought might remotely, possibly (95:2 odds) be going to call the police on his 9mm semiautomatic pistol.
OK case/event I see what you're saying, but can't we assume that the jury are all bright enough that they won't be fooled by smoke and mirrors?


Then, they weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty, were they?

But hold on...remember Trayvon is the one being followed by some strange man...he has committed no crime...yet this man is following him in the dark and rain...why would trayvon assume this follower is gonna call the police?...call the police on himself?...trayvon doesnt think he has done anything but go to the store and talk on the phone. This kid is from the hoods of Miami...somebody follows him and he asks whats up? Nothing illegal there at all.

Also, your sense to get out of the rain was shot down by GZs friend mr Taaffe...He told greta that Trayvon cut through the yard and then proceeded up the street and then went under the mailbox overhang to talk on the phone and stay dry from the rain....then low and behold here comes this guy creeping along in his truck following him again...so then Trayvon proceeds up the street again and is then being followed slowly by MRz again...Trayvon is walking down the street and Z is following behind him in the truck. Yeah, Trayvon is starting to get pissed. So would I and so would you.

I mean we know now that this kid has committed no crime...isnt that just a little bit creepy to you?...you cant understand his thoughts at all? He starts getting perturbed and MR Z cant understand why? Why? Because like a lot of you, you are convinced he was up to know good just like Mr Z...you would have been wrong as Mr Z was...no crime just a trip to the store. It escalates and Z knows it but sees no need to defuse the situation...nope he continues to creep along in his truck inciting the problem.

Dont tell me Mr Z did everything right that night...if the prosecution was hitting on these points...they would be well ahead right now in this trial...they are going with the race card...and as I said would happen...they are failing with it...they dont need it. They have enough that Z did wrong.

You call it smoke and mirrors...I call it a logical response from someone being followed. Why is it so clear and acceptable to you that MR Z be suspicsious of Trayvon, but on the other hand you cant understand how someone might be creeped out and irritated that someone is following him in the dark and rain?

For the life of me I cant see why so many cant empathize with that.

It's easier to turn your back on someone you don't know.

 

[S.J.]

The left really screwed up, going for a murder charge. Clearly that was a BIG mistake. No way it was murder, they've failed to meet even the minimum criteria for murder.

 

[ScienceRocks]

S.J

Zimmerman is going to be a very rich man when he's done suing the fucking media. It's going to be fun to watch.

 

[Ernie S.]

Not to my satisfaction... IMO the case is invol. manslaughter.

The defense here is "self defense" If the jury decides Zimmerman acted in self defense, he is innocent. Self defense is, by definition justifiable homicide.

I suppose they could convict for involuntary MS, but it would never survive an appeal.

Yeah the only way they get 2nd degree is if they get the pathological liar up on the stand to brag about what he did.

Do you have anything like pertinent facts to bring to the discussion?

 

[rdean]

Zimmerman is currently the "Darrell Issa" of voluntary manslaughter.

 

[pioneerpete]

S.J

Zimmerman is going to be a very rich man when he's done suing the fucking media. It's going to be fun to watch.

CNN Broadcasts Zimmerman Social Security Number

Add this to NBC and State of Florida