The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[jon_berzerk]

How is he there and listening to GZs phone call at the same time...doesnt make sense.

what

he went back

he didnt stay there

Serino said it was impossible given the timestamps of the two phone calls...its two and a half football fields round trip in the dark and rain while talking on the phone and according to you listening to another.

Do you believe this from rachel: This makes no sense with him being home.


She testified that Martin described the man following him as "a creepy-ass cracker" and he thought he had evaded him. But she said a short time later Martin let out a profanity.

Martin said Zimmerman was behind him and she heard Martin ask: "What are you following me for?"

She then heard what sounded like Martin's phone earpiece drop into the grass and she heard him say, "Get off! Get off!" The phone then went dead, she said.

i think this has been covered over and over

240 yards is nothing to travel in 2 minutes on foot

 

[Defer09]

It seems like Martin supporters are just ignoring the law and talking about what Zimmerman could have done differently.
Both of them made extremely stupid mistakes and they both could have avoided the situation but, based on the evidence, Martin is the only person who did anything illegal.

 

[jon_berzerk]

It seems like Martin supporters are just ignoring the law and talking about what Zimmerman could have done differently.
Both of them made extremely stupid mistakes and they both could have avoided the situation but, based on the evidence, Martin is the only person who did anything illegal.

the state has not beyond reasonable doubt

proven that zimmerman broke any laws

 

[25Caliber]

what

he went back

he didnt stay there

Serino said it was impossible given the timestamps of the two phone calls...its two and a half football fields round trip in the dark and rain while talking on the phone and according to you listening to another.

Do you believe this from rachel: This makes no sense with him being home.


She testified that Martin described the man following him as "a creepy-ass cracker" and he thought he had evaded him. But she said a short time later Martin let out a profanity.

Martin said Zimmerman was behind him and she heard Martin ask: "What are you following me for?"

She then heard what sounded like Martin's phone earpiece drop into the grass and she heard him say, "Get off! Get off!" The phone then went dead, she said.

i think this has been covered over and over...

240 yards is nothing to travel in 2 minutes on foot

You deflected...but yeah its been covered over and over...

it has to match up with the timestamps...the investigator on the case (serino) said it was impossible given that.

And I do think its a long way giving the circumstances on that night. I gave you Rachels testimony at what point was all of that going on?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Serino said it was impossible given the timestamps of the two phone calls...its two and a half football fields round trip in the dark and rain while talking on the phone and according to you listening to another.

Do you believe this from rachel: This makes no sense with him being home.


She testified that Martin described the man following him as "a creepy-ass cracker" and he thought he had evaded him. But she said a short time later Martin let out a profanity.

Martin said Zimmerman was behind him and she heard Martin ask: "What are you following me for?"

She then heard what sounded like Martin's phone earpiece drop into the grass and she heard him say, "Get off! Get off!" The phone then went dead, she said.

i think this has been covered over and over

240 yards is nothing to travel in 2 minutes on foot

You deflected...but yeah its been covered over and over...

it has to match up with the timestamps...the investigator on the case (serino) said it was impossible given that.

And I do think its a long way giving the circumstances on that night.

at any rate it does not matter

it is apparent from the crime scene evidence that the encounter started

where zimmerman said it did by the T

if martin only ran so far as where the bush is and hid

he could have easily overheard zimmerman talking to the cops

 

[Missourian]

what

he went back

he didnt stay there

Serino said it was impossible given the timestamps of the two phone calls...its two and a half football fields round trip in the dark and rain while talking on the phone and according to you listening to another.

Do you believe this from rachel: This makes no sense with him being home.


She testified that Martin described the man following him as "a creepy-ass cracker" and he thought he had evaded him. But she said a short time later Martin let out a profanity.

Martin said Zimmerman was behind him and she heard Martin ask: "What are you following me for?"

She then heard what sounded like Martin's phone earpiece drop into the grass and she heard him say, "Get off! Get off!" The phone then went dead, she said.

i think this has been covered over and over

240 yards is nothing to travel in 2 minutes on foot

I did the math in another post, for Zimmerman, not Martin...but it worked out like this...

Average walking speed is 3 mph.


I used this site to convert to feet per minute.



http://www.conversion-website.com/sp...er_minute.html


821 feet per minute.


Divide by 3 for 20 seconds walking time...274 feet.



Divide by 4 for 15 seconds walking time...205 feet.


​

That's 274 yard in one minute walking 3 miles per hour.

821 feet per minute at 3 mph, divided by 3 (three feet to a yard) to convert to yards per minute.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Serino said it was impossible given the timestamps of the two phone calls...its two and a half football fields round trip in the dark and rain while talking on the phone and according to you listening to another.

Do you believe this from rachel: This makes no sense with him being home.


She testified that Martin described the man following him as "a creepy-ass cracker" and he thought he had evaded him. But she said a short time later Martin let out a profanity.

Martin said Zimmerman was behind him and she heard Martin ask: "What are you following me for?"

She then heard what sounded like Martin's phone earpiece drop into the grass and she heard him say, "Get off! Get off!" The phone then went dead, she said.

i think this has been covered over and over

240 yards is nothing to travel in 2 minutes on foot

I did the math in another post, for Zimmerman, not Martin...but it worked out like this...

Average walking speed is 3 mph.


I used this site to convert to feet per minute.



http://www.conversion-website.com/sp...er_minute.html


821 feet per minute.


Divide by 3 for 20 seconds walking time...274 feet.



Divide by 4 for 15 seconds walking time...205 feet.


​

That's 274 yard in one minute walking 3 miles per hour.

821 feet per minute at 3 mph, divided by 3 (three feet to a yard) to convert to yards per minute.

yes thanks

i thought average walking speed was 3-4 mph

 

[25Caliber]

i think this has been covered over and over

240 yards is nothing to travel in 2 minutes on foot

You deflected...but yeah its been covered over and over...

it has to match up with the timestamps...the investigator on the case (serino) said it was impossible given that.

And I do think its a long way giving the circumstances on that night.

at any rate it does not matter

it is apparent from the crime scene evidence that the encounter started

where zimmerman said it did by the T

if martin only ran so far as where the bush is and hid

he could have easily overheard zimmerman talking to the cops

I agree...depending on where he was he could have heard zimmerman talking to someone for sure...if he could make out who and what is being discussed, i doubt it...he was still on the phone listening to and talking to rachel.

Its possible that Trayvon established based on the demeanor of GZ, that this strange man may be on the phone calling the police. I dont think he necessarily heard it, but assumed it. Its possible. Some white dudes following me on the phone probably talking to the police. I could see that.

 

[jon_berzerk]

You deflected...but yeah its been covered over and over...

it has to match up with the timestamps...the investigator on the case (serino) said it was impossible given that.

And I do think its a long way giving the circumstances on that night.

at any rate it does not matter

it is apparent from the crime scene evidence that the encounter started

where zimmerman said it did by the T

if martin only ran so far as where the bush is and hid

he could have easily overheard zimmerman talking to the cops

I agree...depending on where he was he could have heard zimmerman talking to someone for sure...if he could make out who and what is being discussed, i doubt it...he was still on the phone listening to and talking to rachel.

Its possible that Trayvon established based on the demeanor of GZ, that this strange man may be on the phone calling the police. I dont think he necessarily heard it, but assumed it. Its possible. Some white dudes following me on the phone probably talking to the police. I could see that.

and remember zimmerman did say to dispatch that he didnt

want to give out his address because he didnt know where they guy was

and didnt want to chance him hearing it

if you look at the crime scene photos taken that night

by the T using the lights supplied from the cops

it is hard to see but there is a bush off to the left

when looking down the walk from T

 

[25Caliber]

at any rate it does not matter

it is apparent from the crime scene evidence that the encounter started

where zimmerman said it did by the T

if martin only ran so far as where the bush is and hid

he could have easily overheard zimmerman talking to the cops

I agree...depending on where he was he could have heard zimmerman talking to someone for sure...if he could make out who and what is being discussed, i doubt it...he was still on the phone listening to and talking to rachel.

Its possible that Trayvon established based on the demeanor of GZ, that this strange man may be on the phone calling the police. I dont think he necessarily heard it, but assumed it. Its possible. Some white dudes following me on the phone probably talking to the police. I could see that.

and remember zimmerman did say to dispatch that he didnt

want to give out his address because he didnt know where they guy was

and didnt want to chance him hearing it

if you look at the crime scene photos taken that night

by the T using the lights supplied from the cops

it is hard to see but there is a bush off to the left

when looking down the walk from T

I just listened to her testimony about where Trayvon was. She never says she knew for sure he was at home. She said that she thought he was "by" his home and in her mind a "couple of houses" away. This kind of goes to my theory that he was near but not there...and near is subjective...could have been near compared to the long walk he just had and hes a full building down, which is what I think.

To me, this is important because the defense wants you to think that the dude went home thought about it and headed back therefore initiating the conflict...but if its not that way and he had just simply cut up the courtyard in between the building, then he is just looking back to see if hes still being followed and then out of frustration finally saying something...giving the appearance that the man continuing to follow is in fact initiating the response he finally got because he continued to give the appearance of pursuit or looking for him.

She said she figured that because he was staying with his father that if he was near that father could help.

IMO, she is ad libbing here trying to defend why she didnt take the situation more serious...she is basically passing the buck saying she figured there would be others there that could help him. So on one hand she is stating not completely home but a couple of houses down but then says she hears stuff in the background...I think she threw that in, because that would mean that the voices in the background were coming from somewhere else...only problem is that its raining and i doubt there was anyone standing around talking outside.

The testimony is here...its really hard to make anything out of what she is saying...you cant get anything exact out of her...lol.

About the 18:00 mark is where she states this:
Witness #8 ? Rachel Jeantel ? Scheme Participation, Dot Connection? | The Last Refuge

 

[jon_berzerk]

I agree...depending on where he was he could have heard zimmerman talking to someone for sure...if he could make out who and what is being discussed, i doubt it...he was still on the phone listening to and talking to rachel.

Its possible that Trayvon established based on the demeanor of GZ, that this strange man may be on the phone calling the police. I dont think he necessarily heard it, but assumed it. Its possible. Some white dudes following me on the phone probably talking to the police. I could see that.

and remember zimmerman did say to dispatch that he didnt

want to give out his address because he didnt know where they guy was

and didnt want to chance him hearing it

if you look at the crime scene photos taken that night

by the T using the lights supplied from the cops

it is hard to see but there is a bush off to the left

when looking down the walk from T

I just listened to her testimony about where Trayvon was. She never says she knew for sure he was at home. She said that she thought he was by his home and in her mind a couple of houses down.

She said she figured that because if he was staying at fathers that if he was near that father could help.

IMO, she is ad libbing here trying to defend why she didnt take the situation more serious...she is basically passing the buck saying she figured there would be others there that could help him.

The testimony is here...its really hard to make anything out of what she is saying...you cant get anything exact out of her...lol.

She testified that Martin described the man following him as "a creepy-ass cracker" and he thought he had evaded him. But she said a short time later Martin let out a profanity.

Martin said Zimmerman was behind him and she heard Martin ask: "What are you following me for?"

She then heard what sounded like Martin's phone earpiece drop into the grass and she heard him say, "Get off! Get off!" The phone then went dead, she said.

About the 18:00 mark is where she states this:
Witness #8 ? Rachel Jeantel ? Scheme Participation, Dot Connection? | The Last Refuge

it will be interesting to hear testimony after the depo of crump

which i believe happened today

or possibly after court on Wednesday

 

[Oldstyle]

Hmmmm...i thought this was interesting...especially now that it appears GZ has been less than truthful about his knowledge of the "Stand Your Ground Law".

"Stand-your-ground laws are frequently criticized and called "shoot first" laws by critics, including the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.[28] In Florida, the law has resulted in self-defense claims tripling.[28][29] The law's critics argue that Florida's law makes it very difficult to prosecute cases against people who shoot others and then claim self-defense. The shooter can argue that they felt threatened, and in most cases, the only witness who could have argued otherwise is the victim who was shot and killed."

~Wiki

Hmmm...think this might have a little to do with him wanting to deny knowledge of the law?...yep throw that in there, George.

Is the "he tried to grab my gun" and said I was "gonna die tonight" making more sense now? Many are supporting someone that might be lying right to their face about some things. I dont like liars...it makes me dig deeper than I really want to.

I know I know...ITS NOT ILLEGAL TO FORGET WHAT YOU LEARNED IN COLLEGE!!! Even if your college professor testifies in your trial that he taught it "extensively" in a class you aced. I know I know...more conjecture and speculation, right?

My argument would be that GZ was punched immediately when Trayvon perceived that the stranger (who never identified himself) relentlessly following him in the dark and rain went reaching for what he thought was a weapon...GZ was punched repeatedly after that because he went reaching for what Trayvon knew was a gun.

Why is GZ feeling the need for his gun? Because he was negligent in continuing up the dark path that the suspect ran away from him on after he was specifically told "we dont need you to do that".

Speculation? Conjecture? Nope its all on tape...I'll take my chances with the jury mulling that over. They can decide for themselves.

"But I swear I was reaching for my phone...honest I was"...was your phone there? Nope. Was your gun there? Yep. No further questions....for now.

Just something to think about. I know its hard...it was hard for me too.

Here's the problem with your scenario, 25. Zimmerman WASN'T "relentlessly following" him. When Martin runs away, he ends up outside the condo where he is staying, which is over a hundred and twenty yards away from the path that Zimmerman took going and returning. That fact was provided by a Prosecution witness, Rachel Jenteal. So if Martin is that far away from Zimmerman...and standing outside of the safety of the condo...how is it not HIS fault that a confrontation takes place? Did he not have to walk all that way back to confront George Zimmerman? If you can explain to me how that confrontation DOES take place unless Martin deliberately returns to initiate it then I'd be all ears.

What did rachel say that tells you he was at his condo door? My impression of her statements was that she didnt know but that she thought he was near his home, which considering the fact that he has been followed home from the store in the dark and rain...anywhere in that area would be close to home...the courtyard would be close to home.

Not to mention the fact that it seems Rachels statements are in another language and have double meanings...lol.

Here's your problem, 25...you've got Trayvon telling Rachel that he's going to run from the man following him...she says she hears wind rushing by and then the phone cuts out. When she calls back over a minute later...she says that Trayvon is "breathing hard" and "sounded tired". So if Trayvon has been running for THAT amount of time...how is possible that he's NOT at the condo where he's staying? He's a high school football player in great shape. Are you maintaining that he somehow ran long enough to be breathing hard and sounding tired when Rachel called back a minute plus later...yet WASN'T right by the condo? The only way that could happen is if Trayvon ran in circles for that amount of time. Does that make sense to you? It's clear that Rachel thinks he's right by the condo because she stated that she wasn't worried about the fight Trayvon was getting in because she thought his father would come help him because he was that close to the condo. If Trayvon isn't right by the condo then she wouldn't have thought that...would she?

So if Martin "is" by the condo? How does the fight start with Zimmerman WHO NEVER WENT ANYWHERE NEAR THAT CONDO? I still haven't heard your explanation for how the two men come together unless Martin walks back to where the sidewalk T's.

 

[Politico]

Remind us again of your clairvoyance, as I recall you had a whole story concocted about Zimmerman reaching for either his weapon or phone forcing Martin to attack him. No witness to the event, no evidence of the story you created from whole cloth, but you went on and on for pages reciting that story line.

As I have said repeatedly. Even if a witness did pop up It wouldn't make a bit of difference. Each side would just ignore it and continue on with their conjecture.

 

[Black_Label]

What would happen if Zimmerman is found guilty? Will the right wingers go on a violent rampage? Start shooting up african-american neighborhoods? Will fox go ballistic crying conspiracy as usual?

 

[bripat9643]

What would happen if Zimmerman is found guilty? Will the right wingers go on a violent rampage? Start shooting up african-american neighborhoods? Will fox go ballistic crying conspiracy as usual?

What happened when O.J. was found not guilty?

 

[Two Thumbs]

What would happen if Zimmerman is found guilty? Will the right wingers go on a violent rampage? Start shooting up african-american neighborhoods? Will fox go ballistic crying conspiracy as usual?

There will be some pissing and moaning about him being sent to prevent riots. but aside from that, not much.


Do you have links to rednecks saying otherwise? b/c we've got links to blacks saying they will murder whites, even though no white person had anything to do with this

 

[Billo_Really]

The prosecution sucks!

I doubt if he'll be found guilty.

 

[25Caliber]

Here's the problem with your scenario, 25. Zimmerman WASN'T "relentlessly following" him. When Martin runs away, he ends up outside the condo where he is staying, which is over a hundred and twenty yards away from the path that Zimmerman took going and returning. That fact was provided by a Prosecution witness, Rachel Jenteal. So if Martin is that far away from Zimmerman...and standing outside of the safety of the condo...how is it not HIS fault that a confrontation takes place? Did he not have to walk all that way back to confront George Zimmerman? If you can explain to me how that confrontation DOES take place unless Martin deliberately returns to initiate it then I'd be all ears.

What did rachel say that tells you he was at his condo door? My impression of her statements was that she didnt know but that she thought he was near his home, which considering the fact that he has been followed home from the store in the dark and rain...anywhere in that area would be close to home...the courtyard would be close to home.

Not to mention the fact that it seems Rachels statements are in another language and have double meanings...lol.

Here's your problem, 25...you've got Trayvon telling Rachel that he's going to run from the man following him...she says she hears wind rushing by and then the phone cuts out. When she calls back over a minute later...she says that Trayvon is "breathing hard" and "sounded tired". So if Trayvon has been running for THAT amount of time...how is possible that he's NOT at the condo where he's staying? He's a high school football player in great shape. Are you maintaining that he somehow ran long enough to be breathing hard and sounding tired when Rachel called back a minute plus later...yet WASN'T right by the condo? The only way that could happen is if Trayvon ran in circles for that amount of time. Does that make sense to you? It's clear that Rachel thinks he's right by the condo because she stated that she wasn't worried about the fight Trayvon was getting in because she thought his father would come help him because he was that close to the condo. If Trayvon isn't right by the condo then she wouldn't have thought that...would she?

So if Martin "is" by the condo? How does the fight start with Zimmerman WHO NEVER WENT ANYWHERE NEAR THAT CONDO? I still haven't heard your explanation for how the two men come together unless Martin walks back to where the sidewalk T's.

Fair question and thank you for keeping it respectful...I can have a conversation with you

Simple answer to your question is that I believe Trayvon came back to see if he was still being followed...when he saw George again he asked the famous question, to which GZ responded with his famous answer. These famous questions and answers being done as Trayvon is walking towards GZ...GZ then says that he went to grab his phone out of a right side pocket and when he did he was clocked.

My guess is that Trayvon wasnt going to wait to see what the strange guy following him would pull out of his pocket...I mean why are you reaching for your pockets at that moment? Turns out the phone that he says was trying to get wasnt there. Later GZ describes the gun being exposed when they were on the ground in the struggle, so how do we know that it isnt going through Trays mind that his suspicion of GZ reaching for a weapon is now confirmed...so he continues beating him so that the gun isnt grabbed. If you punch someone because he is reaching for what you think may be a weapon and then later in the struggle you observe that weapon in the general area that he was reaching...then what might you think. You might think that your suspicion was right and that by punching him avoided that gun being pulled...you might think after actually seeing it during the struggle that he kept punching so that he couldnt reach or grab it again.

Many ask well whats with the reaching thing....youre making it up and making assumptions about something unrealistic. No, Im not...If I were the prosecution I would exploit GZs own words and tale of events at the interrogation and reenactment. He specifically describes frantically reaching for his pockets for a phone that wasnt there...in the process of doing that he was punched...I would take those words so literally to show that when the situation was escalated he went reaching. i would further submit that he shouldnt have been anywhere near that T or walkway he should have been in his truck....if he would have been this woudnt be happening right now. Its happening because when trayvon went back to see if he was being followed there GZ was now outside of his truck and appearing to follow on foot....so now theres a problem.

Did all of this happen just as i suspect? Probably not in its entirety, but given that Trayvon isnt here we can take the events as GZ explains and try to conclude what an average person would be thinking in the dark and rain being followed. From there, let the jury decide who did what and how much either party is responsible for the events that happened that night.

 

[Sallow]

I like Sallow. But the good ship "Common Sense" sailed without him.

Dumbass point in a truly stupid thread.

I laughed till my sides hurt.

Not really.

"Common Sense" tells me that a person does not have the right to shoot another person, especially if that person is unarmed and isn't breaking the law.

So when the shooter is the only one around to tell the story, one has to be very careful to make sure that story checks out.

And given the circumstances? It better be a good story.

This just wasn't.

 

[Sallow]

Yep. The defense asked her to read the letter she supposedly wrote to the Martin Family and she said she wasn't familiar with cursive.

That's sort of irrelevant.

And not germane to her deposition. Neither is the way she spoke or her appearance.

Her deposition, I am so glad you brought that up.

Why would the states attorney interview a witness who claims to have been on the phone with the victim of a hooting in the home of the parents of said victim? Did you know she specifically said that she didn't want to upset Trayvon's mother and that was why she lied?

I would really suggest you go back to paying Tiddly Winks instead of watching Nancy Grace, you don't know anything about this case, or the law.

This question makes no sense.

Perhaps you should remove the snark.