The OLDER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[P F Tinmore]

From another thread to stay on topic: What is peace worth ?

Well, Tinmore has admitted that he believes the "occupation" includes all lands under the sovereignty of Israel as well as those which remain disputed. So, for him, the "occupation" is any sort of existence of Israel. Which is on par with a good majority of Palestinians and Muslims.

Having admitted that, he has failed to provided information about what Israel must do to rectify the situation. I suspect he avoids it because even he realizes his response is somewhat unsavory.

That Israel is a legitimate state is a western concept based on a lifetime of say so. The Palestinians and others in the region call Israel 1948 occupied Palestine. It is commonly called 48 land or just 48.

I have studied many versions of history and many official documents and I have seen nothing saying that they are incorrect.

 

[Shusha]

From another thread to stay on topic: What is peace worth ?

Well, Tinmore has admitted that he believes the "occupation" includes all lands under the sovereignty of Israel as well as those which remain disputed. So, for him, the "occupation" is any sort of existence of Israel. Which is on par with a good majority of Palestinians and Muslims.

Having admitted that, he has failed to provided information about what Israel must do to rectify the situation. I suspect he avoids it because even he realizes his response is somewhat unsavory.

That Israel is a legitimate state is a western concept based on a lifetime of say so. The Palestinians and others in the region call Israel 1948 occupied Palestine. It is commonly called 48 land or just 48.

I have studied many versions of history and many official documents and I have seen nothing saying that they are incorrect.

So answer the question -- what does Israel have to do to rectify the situation?

 

[P F Tinmore]

From another thread to stay on topic: What is peace worth ?

Well, Tinmore has admitted that he believes the "occupation" includes all lands under the sovereignty of Israel as well as those which remain disputed. So, for him, the "occupation" is any sort of existence of Israel. Which is on par with a good majority of Palestinians and Muslims.

Having admitted that, he has failed to provided information about what Israel must do to rectify the situation. I suspect he avoids it because even he realizes his response is somewhat unsavory.

That Israel is a legitimate state is a western concept based on a lifetime of say so. The Palestinians and others in the region call Israel 1948 occupied Palestine. It is commonly called 48 land or just 48.

I have studied many versions of history and many official documents and I have seen nothing saying that they are incorrect.

So answer the question -- what does Israel have to do to rectify the situation?

End the occupation.

 

[Hollie]

From another thread to stay on topic: What is peace worth ?

Well, Tinmore has admitted that he believes the "occupation" includes all lands under the sovereignty of Israel as well as those which remain disputed. So, for him, the "occupation" is any sort of existence of Israel. Which is on par with a good majority of Palestinians and Muslims.

Having admitted that, he has failed to provided information about what Israel must do to rectify the situation. I suspect he avoids it because even he realizes his response is somewhat unsavory.

That Israel is a legitimate state is a western concept based on a lifetime of say so. The Palestinians and others in the region call Israel 1948 occupied Palestine. It is commonly called 48 land or just 48.

I have studied many versions of history and many official documents and I have seen nothing saying that they are incorrect.

So answer the question -- what does Israel have to do to rectify the situation?

End the occupation.

The Hamas Charter will not magically cease to exist.

 

[P F Tinmore]

From another thread to stay on topic: What is peace worth ?

Well, Tinmore has admitted that he believes the "occupation" includes all lands under the sovereignty of Israel as well as those which remain disputed. So, for him, the "occupation" is any sort of existence of Israel. Which is on par with a good majority of Palestinians and Muslims.

Having admitted that, he has failed to provided information about what Israel must do to rectify the situation. I suspect he avoids it because even he realizes his response is somewhat unsavory.

That Israel is a legitimate state is a western concept based on a lifetime of say so. The Palestinians and others in the region call Israel 1948 occupied Palestine. It is commonly called 48 land or just 48.

I have studied many versions of history and many official documents and I have seen nothing saying that they are incorrect.

So answer the question -- what does Israel have to do to rectify the situation?

End the occupation.

The Hamas Charter will not magically cease to exist.

They should change the name to the Israel Charter. Nobody else uses it.

 

[Shusha]

From another thread to stay on topic: What is peace worth ?

Well, Tinmore has admitted that he believes the "occupation" includes all lands under the sovereignty of Israel as well as those which remain disputed. So, for him, the "occupation" is any sort of existence of Israel. Which is on par with a good majority of Palestinians and Muslims.

Having admitted that, he has failed to provided information about what Israel must do to rectify the situation. I suspect he avoids it because even he realizes his response is somewhat unsavory.

That Israel is a legitimate state is a western concept based on a lifetime of say so. The Palestinians and others in the region call Israel 1948 occupied Palestine. It is commonly called 48 land or just 48.

I have studied many versions of history and many official documents and I have seen nothing saying that they are incorrect.

So answer the question -- what does Israel have to do to rectify the situation?

End the occupation.

Yes. But as you stated the "occupation" includes ALL of the land -- so what would you consider the end of the occupation to look like? Be specific. How will you know the occupation has ended?

 

[P F Tinmore]

From another thread to stay on topic: What is peace worth ?

Well, Tinmore has admitted that he believes the "occupation" includes all lands under the sovereignty of Israel as well as those which remain disputed. So, for him, the "occupation" is any sort of existence of Israel. Which is on par with a good majority of Palestinians and Muslims.

Having admitted that, he has failed to provided information about what Israel must do to rectify the situation. I suspect he avoids it because even he realizes his response is somewhat unsavory.

That Israel is a legitimate state is a western concept based on a lifetime of say so. The Palestinians and others in the region call Israel 1948 occupied Palestine. It is commonly called 48 land or just 48.

I have studied many versions of history and many official documents and I have seen nothing saying that they are incorrect.

So answer the question -- what does Israel have to do to rectify the situation?

End the occupation.

Yes. But as you stated the "occupation" includes ALL of the land -- so what would you consider the end of the occupation to look like? Be specific. How will you know the occupation has ended?

When all of the refugees and internally displaced go back home.

 

[Shusha]

From another thread to stay on topic: What is peace worth ?

Well, Tinmore has admitted that he believes the "occupation" includes all lands under the sovereignty of Israel as well as those which remain disputed. So, for him, the "occupation" is any sort of existence of Israel. Which is on par with a good majority of Palestinians and Muslims.

Having admitted that, he has failed to provided information about what Israel must do to rectify the situation. I suspect he avoids it because even he realizes his response is somewhat unsavory.

That Israel is a legitimate state is a western concept based on a lifetime of say so. The Palestinians and others in the region call Israel 1948 occupied Palestine. It is commonly called 48 land or just 48.

I have studied many versions of history and many official documents and I have seen nothing saying that they are incorrect.

So answer the question -- what does Israel have to do to rectify the situation?

End the occupation.

Yes. But as you stated the "occupation" includes ALL of the land -- so what would you consider the end of the occupation to look like? Be specific. How will you know the occupation has ended?

When all of the refugees and internally displaced go back home.

Wait, what? Really? All the Palestinian refugees? Or both the Palestinian refugees and the Jewish ones? Or all the Palestinian refugees and all their descendants? Or all the Palestinians refugees and their descendants AND all the Jewish refugees and their descendants? Where's home (specifically -- the exact house, the general neighborhood, somewhere in the same city, or anywhere in the territory)?

And you are claiming that nothing else matters? That the be all and end all of the "occupation" is only about those displaced?

 

[P F Tinmore]

From another thread to stay on topic: What is peace worth ?

That Israel is a legitimate state is a western concept based on a lifetime of say so. The Palestinians and others in the region call Israel 1948 occupied Palestine. It is commonly called 48 land or just 48.

I have studied many versions of history and many official documents and I have seen nothing saying that they are incorrect.

So answer the question -- what does Israel have to do to rectify the situation?

End the occupation.

Yes. But as you stated the "occupation" includes ALL of the land -- so what would you consider the end of the occupation to look like? Be specific. How will you know the occupation has ended?

When all of the refugees and internally displaced go back home.

Wait, what? Really? All the Palestinian refugees? Or both the Palestinian refugees and the Jewish ones? Or all the Palestinian refugees and all their descendants? Or all the Palestinians refugees and their descendants AND all the Jewish refugees and their descendants? Where's home (specifically -- the exact house, the general neighborhood, somewhere in the same city, or anywhere in the territory)?

And you are claiming that nothing else matters? That the be all and end all of the "occupation" is only about those displaced?

No but that needs to take place first. Actually the BDS call is important. After that they need to hammer out whether it would be best to go with one state or two states. They both have good and bad points.

 

[Challenger]

From another thread to stay on topic: What is peace worth ?

That Israel is a legitimate state is a western concept based on a lifetime of say so. The Palestinians and others in the region call Israel 1948 occupied Palestine. It is commonly called 48 land or just 48.

I have studied many versions of history and many official documents and I have seen nothing saying that they are incorrect.

So answer the question -- what does Israel have to do to rectify the situation?

End the occupation.

Yes. But as you stated the "occupation" includes ALL of the land -- so what would you consider the end of the occupation to look like? Be specific. How will you know the occupation has ended?

When all of the refugees and internally displaced go back home.

Wait, what? Really? All the Palestinian refugees? Or both the Palestinian refugees and the Jewish ones? Or all the Palestinian refugees and all their descendants? Or all the Palestinians refugees and their descendants AND all the Jewish refugees and their descendants? Where's home (specifically -- the exact house, the general neighborhood, somewhere in the same city, or anywhere in the territory)?

And you are claiming that nothing else matters? That the be all and end all of the "occupation" is only about those displaced?

You certainly like complicating things where no complexity actually exists; it's called "over-thinking a problem". You asked the question, "How will you know the occupation has ended?" and you were answered, " When all of the refugees and internally displaced go back home." Everything else is part of the process to get to that end result. See, not so difficult, is it?

 

[Shusha]

So, again, are we talking ALL of the refugees? Or just the Palestinian ones? And where is "home"? Is it enough to bring them back to the territory and get them out of camps? Or are you insisting that they return to Israel (which will bring an end to Israel and will be a much harder sell)?

These questions make a huge difference for the Israeli side.

 

[P F Tinmore]

So, again, are we talking ALL of the refugees? Or just the Palestinian ones? And where is "home"? Is it enough to bring them back to the territory and get them out of camps? Or are you insisting that they return to Israel (which will bring an end to Israel and will be a much harder sell)?

These questions make a huge difference for the Israeli side.

You did not address all of the points I made in my original post.

 

[Shusha]

So, again, are we talking ALL of the refugees? Or just the Palestinian ones? And where is "home"? Is it enough to bring them back to the territory and get them out of camps? Or are you insisting that they return to Israel (which will bring an end to Israel and will be a much harder sell)?

These questions make a huge difference for the Israeli side.

You did not address all of the points I made in my original post.

Which one? #321?

Israel is a State by any measure you want to throw at it. Your turn.

 

[P F Tinmore]

So, again, are we talking ALL of the refugees? Or just the Palestinian ones? And where is "home"? Is it enough to bring them back to the territory and get them out of camps? Or are you insisting that they return to Israel (which will bring an end to Israel and will be a much harder sell)?

These questions make a huge difference for the Israeli side.

You did not address all of the points I made in my original post.

Which one? #321?

Israel is a State by any measure you want to throw at it. Your turn.

Nice say so. Any proof?

 

[Challenger]

So, again, are we talking ALL of the refugees? Or just the Palestinian ones? And where is "home"? Is it enough to bring them back to the territory and get them out of camps? Or are you insisting that they return to Israel (which will bring an end to Israel and will be a much harder sell)?

These questions make a huge difference for the Israeli side.

No they don't, these are just tactics to introduce unnecessary complexity where none exists and thereby derail any serious negotiations by arguing over minuitae; rather like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, without first establishing that angels CAN dance on the head of a pin. Establish the principle, the rest will follow.

 

[Boston1]

So, again, are we talking ALL of the refugees? Or just the Palestinian ones? And where is "home"? Is it enough to bring them back to the territory and get them out of camps? Or are you insisting that they return to Israel (which will bring an end to Israel and will be a much harder sell)?

These questions make a huge difference for the Israeli side.

I think the question of refugees might deserve its own thread. The issue is actually quite complex.

 

[Challenger]

So, again, are we talking ALL of the refugees? Or just the Palestinian ones? And where is "home"? Is it enough to bring them back to the territory and get them out of camps? Or are you insisting that they return to Israel (which will bring an end to Israel and will be a much harder sell)?

These questions make a huge difference for the Israeli side.

I think the question of refugees might deserve its own thread. The issue is actually quite complex.

No it is not. Zionists always introduce complexity to stall or derail any serious discussion or negotiation. This is why the Zionists have spun out peace negotiations for the last 15 years and why Olso has ultimately failed.

 

[Boston1]

I went ahead and unilaterally ;--) started a new thread anyway. This one is on the creation of Israel. The new one is on the complexities of the refugee issues. While I found the read on this thread interesting. I didn't think the refugee issue belonged here

 

[Shusha]

Ultimately, if the anti-Israel side wants to blame Israel for everything but can't even formulate a step-by-step plan for Israel to rectify it, it is they who are prolonging the conflict. It really does demonstrate they aren't concerned with actually solving the problem, but only Israel-bashing.

 

[Challenger]

Ultimately, if the anti-Israel side wants to blame Israel for everything but can't even formulate a step-by-step plan for Israel to rectify it, it is they who are prolonging the conflict. It really does demonstrate they aren't concerned with actually solving the problem, but only Israel-bashing.

On the contrary, the onus is on Zionist Israel, as aggressor, coloniser, occupier and oppressor, to put forward “step by step” proposals on restitution and compensation to create the circumstances for a just and lasting peace. Anything else is just Zionist delaying tactics. Continuing conflict is solely in Zionist interests, while conflict continues they can expand their stolen territories further.