The only laws that will disarm criminals, is a TOTAL BAN, followed by confiscation

[Politico]

How do we get guns away from criminals?
What's the plan?
Step by step, please.

First we ban them. Then we require that you turn them in. Then we shoot anyone with a gun who isn't in uniform dead if they show up with one.

For those who hole up in their homes with their armory we have a special treat, you and your entire family get to meet Jesus as we bulldoze the place flat.

You are really a nutbag. But I imagine that is why you are pink.

Fewer unregistered guns in the general population. More direct responsibility of where each gun is and who owns it. Plus stronger penalties for non-compliance will make access to firearms for those who don't follow the process more difficult and thus less gun deaths will hopefully result.

Will this stop the gun black market? Do drug laws stop drug usage?
Do kids quit finding ways to get alcohol even though law says theyare too young? Do murder laws stop murder?

Are you against laws that outlaw rape, kiddie porn and child abuse?

It doesn't stop that either which is exactly the point.

 

[Peach]

All these big-govt gun-haters are dancing carefully around the fact that none of their gun laws and restrictions will keep guns out of the hands of people who don't obey laws.....

....EXCEPT for a total ban on all guns for everybody, followed by massive confiscation of all guns presently in civilian hands.

They want to arrive at that slowly, a little at a time, so the frog in the kettle won't notice that the water is getting warmer.

So they only suggest a small restriction here, a ban on only certain guns there...... for now.

.

.

When do you suppose they'll notice that even their total gun ban, will work as well as the current nationwide bans on marijuana, cocaine, and exceeding the speed limit in your car?

No, an Amendment to the Constitution, Bill of Rights. I'm agin' it.

 

[JoeB131]

All these big-govt gun-haters are dancing carefully around the fact that none of their gun laws and restrictions will keep guns out of the hands of people who don't obey laws.....

....EXCEPT for a total ban on all guns for everybody, followed by massive confiscation of all guns presently in civilian hands.

They want to arrive at that slowly, a little at a time, so the frog in the kettle won't notice that the water is getting warmer.

So they only suggest a small restriction here, a ban on only certain guns there...... for now.

When do you suppose they'll notice that even their total gun ban, will work as well as the current nationwide bans on marijuana, cocaine, and exceeding the speed limit in your car?

So you think letting people go 60 in a school zone is going to make us safer?

The thing is, you gun nuts are creating the fear by selling guns to a lot of people who shouldn't have them. You'd probably help yourselves with a bit of self-policing.

 

[Meister]

All these big-govt gun-haters are dancing carefully around the fact that none of their gun laws and restrictions will keep guns out of the hands of people who don't obey laws.....

....EXCEPT for a total ban on all guns for everybody, followed by massive confiscation of all guns presently in civilian hands.

They want to arrive at that slowly, a little at a time, so the frog in the kettle won't notice that the water is getting warmer.

So they only suggest a small restriction here, a ban on only certain guns there...... for now.

When do you suppose they'll notice that even their total gun ban, will work as well as the current nationwide bans on marijuana, cocaine, and exceeding the speed limit in your car?

So you think letting people go 60 in a school zone is going to make us safer?

The thing is, you gun nuts are creating the fear by selling guns to a lot of people who shouldn't have them. You'd probably help yourselves with a bit of self-policing.

There is enough laws on the books, the problem is that they aren't being enforced.


Having said that........how would any of the laws prevented the shooting in Troutdale?

 

[RDD_1210]

How do we get guns away from criminals?
What's the plan?
Step by step, please.

First we ban them. Then we require that you turn them in. Then we shoot anyone with a gun who isn't in uniform dead if they show up with one.

For those who hole up in their homes with their armory we have a special treat, you and your entire family get to meet Jesus as we bulldoze the place flat.

You are really a nutbag. But I imagine that is why you are pink.

Will this stop the gun black market? Do drug laws stop drug usage?
Do kids quit finding ways to get alcohol even though law says theyare too young? Do murder laws stop murder?

Are you against laws that outlaw rape, kiddie porn and child abuse?

It doesn't stop that either which is exactly the point.

So if a law doesn't stop something 100% then its not worth having?

 

[SAYIT]

First we ban them. Then we require that you turn them in. Then we shoot anyone with a gun who isn't in uniform dead if they show up with one.

For those who hole up in their homes with their armory we have a special treat, you and your entire family get to meet Jesus as we bulldoze the place flat.

You are really a nutbag. But I imagine that is why you are pink.

Are you against laws that outlaw rape, kiddie porn and child abuse?

It doesn't stop that either which is exactly the point.

So if a law doesn't stop something 100% then its not worth having?

The point being we already have gun laws, just as we have rape, kiddie porn and child abuse laws. As has already been noted, only a total confiscation of guns would diminish these attacks and, as also noted, that's just not gonna happen.

 

[RDD_1210]

You are really a nutbag. But I imagine that is why you are pink.



It doesn't stop that either which is exactly the point.

So if a law doesn't stop something 100% then its not worth having?

The point being we already have gun laws, just as we have rape, kiddie porn and child abuse laws. As has already been noted, only a total confiscation of guns would diminish these attacks and, as also noted, that's just not gonna happen.

The point is, we don't have the right gun laws.

 

[dannyboys]

The only action that will stop criminals from using illegal guns: Some one gets caught using an illegal gun during the commission of any crime. On the spot death sentence. No questions. No fucking ACLU. One pill to the temple. Video tape each execution and run them on a cable network. 24/7. Watch Rev. Al threaten to "march". LOL!

 

[PoliticalChic]

never. Going. To. Happen. Period.

or as a number of people who came earlier said:

אף פעם לא הולך לקרות. תקופה.

나는 확실히 당신이 올바른 희망

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

From a liberal perspective: There are restrictions on other constitutional rights, such as free speech. Why can't there be similar restrictions on the types of guns available?

Honestly, until something happens and a case that directly covers this is taken to the Supreme Court, I'm not sure anything will change. Court cases that guns-rights activists use as support are also used by gun-control activists.

It's not a "liberal perspective," it's a fact of Constitutional law, all rights are subject to reasonable restrictions, including the Second Amendment right.

 

[kaz]

From a liberal perspective: There are restrictions on other constitutional rights, such as free speech. Why can't there be similar restrictions on the types of guns available?

Honestly, until something happens and a case that directly covers this is taken to the Supreme Court, I'm not sure anything will change. Court cases that guns-rights activists use as support are also used by gun-control activists.

It's not a "liberal perspective," it's a fact of Constitutional law, all rights are subject to reasonable restrictions, including the Second Amendment right.

You mean like abortion?

 

[candycorn]

Still no one has even tried to refute the point of the thread.

The only law that can have any effect on the number of guns criminals can get, is a total ban on all guns, followed by forcible confiscation of the guns people already have.

And even that will only have as much effect, as the total ban on cocaine we have had in place for decades. How hard is cocaine for criminals to get now?

The leftists know this, of course. And so they only put in place very small, partial bans, such as "longer wait times"" or "registration" or "insurance", and hope that the frog in the kettle won't notice that the water's getting warm.

Total ban and confiscation is impractical and possibly illegal. In any event, no one is proposing it. What is being proposed are better background checks, national registration and limited controls on ammunition. The goal is not perfection. The goal is a modest but real reduction in needless slaughter and the beginning of a slowly developing evolution in public consciousness about the role of firearms in our society.

It's how the brain-dead try to win arguments, they make your position out to be unreasonable and demand all or nothing results from what you've come up with. Anything short of that is a failure.

Really, what we should do is basically treat them like we did cigarettes and place giant taxes on the sale. When the price gets too high, the demand dries up, gun companies stop making/importing guns and you have at least cut off the influx. After that, as gun crimes are committed, you confiscate the weapons from the criminals and you begin to cut the supply. You couple that with sentences that work--20 to 30 years if you use or brandish a firearm during a crime; no parole. It will take quite a long time but what you'll end up with is three things:

Guns being so expensive due to lack of supply that the firearms the gun nuts swear you can buy on any street corner (funny how I never see any of these corners) become cost prohibitive. So you have less gun violence.

Guns that would have been sold to law abiding folks who wanted them for protection are not sold so they are not stolen/used by others for commission of crimes

Guns that are bought and used by responsible people for punching paper or hunting or sports shooting or self defense stay in the hands of the responsible people who take gun ownership seriously.

It would just take common sense to implement these steps tomorrow but since the NRA is involved and 200+ old dogma is still believed by 1/2 the population (roughly the same half that believes that some dude sitting on a cloud controls their destiny); there is no chance we will act like grown-ups.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Heres a simple rule for the all or nothing bunch.

No laws will ever stop all of everything. But I dont see anyone talking about repealing rape laws, traffic signs, child molestation laws etc.

Because those laws exist to keep the law-abiding under control, which is the purpose and duty of Government.

I can guarantee you that OUT-LAWS, who live OUTside the LAW, care not for any of those laws either.

In the case of GUN CONTROL, the purpose of the laws are to disarm/control OUT-LAWS, not the law abiding citizenry. However, any laws designed to control OUT-LAWS who live OUTside the LAW are futile.

Criminals/OUT-laws are in fact in a constant state of insurrection against the Popular Authority. They do not recognize our laws, because they are in fact at WAR with our laws.

So every time a GUN CONTROL law is passed, only the law abiding citizenry, those who are at PEACE with the Popular Authority, obey that law and find themselves disarmed. The OUT-laws, who are at WAR with the Popular Authority only become emboldened as less ALLIES of the Popular Authority possess the means to resist them, see Chicago.

 

[martybegan]

Still no one has even tried to refute the point of the thread.

The only law that can have any effect on the number of guns criminals can get, is a total ban on all guns, followed by forcible confiscation of the guns people already have.

And even that will only have as much effect, as the total ban on cocaine we have had in place for decades. How hard is cocaine for criminals to get now?

The leftists know this, of course. And so they only put in place very small, partial bans, such as "longer wait times"" or "registration" or "insurance", and hope that the frog in the kettle won't notice that the water's getting warm.

Total ban and confiscation is impractical and possibly illegal. In any event, no one is proposing it. What is being proposed are better background checks, national registration and limited controls on ammunition. The goal is not perfection. The goal is a modest but real reduction in needless slaughter and the beginning of a slowly developing evolution in public consciousness about the role of firearms in our society.

It's how the brain-dead try to win arguments, they make your position out to be unreasonable and demand all or nothing results from what you've come up with. Anything short of that is a failure.

Really, what we should do is basically treat them like we did cigarettes and place giant taxes on the sale. When the price gets too high, the demand dries up, gun companies stop making/importing guns and you have at least cut off the influx. After that, as gun crimes are committed, you confiscate the weapons from the criminals and you begin to cut the supply. You couple that with sentences that work--20 to 30 years if you use or brandish a firearm during a crime; no parole. It will take quite a long time but what you'll end up with is three things:

Guns being so expensive due to lack of supply that the firearms the gun nuts swear you can buy on any street corner (funny how I never see any of these corners) become cost prohibitive. So you have less gun violence.

Guns that would have been sold to law abiding folks who wanted them for protection are not sold so they are not stolen/used by others for commission of crimes

Guns that are bought and used by responsible people for punching paper or hunting or sports shooting or self defense stay in the hands of the responsible people who take gun ownership seriously.

It would just take common sense to implement these steps tomorrow but since the NRA is involved and 200+ old dogma is still believed by 1/2 the population (roughly the same half that believes that some dude sitting on a cloud controls their destiny); there is no chance we will act like grown-ups.

Taxing them for the sake of making it harder for a law abiding citizen to own them is infringement. Again, repeal the 2nd if you want to do that.

And considering I can go to a local bodega and buy smokes (if I wanted to not a smoker) that doesn't have the tax sticker attached, how hard do you think it would be to avoid the gun tax? About as hard as criminals find it to avoid background checks and such.

You keep saying you want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and nutters, but all your proposals involve making it harder for the very law abiding citizens grabbers claim they don't want to impact.

Lies on top of lies, and you wonder why RKBA proponents don't trust gun control supporters?

 

[martybegan]

From a liberal perspective: There are restrictions on other constitutional rights, such as free speech. Why can't there be similar restrictions on the types of guns available?

Honestly, until something happens and a case that directly covers this is taken to the Supreme Court, I'm not sure anything will change. Court cases that guns-rights activists use as support are also used by gun-control activists.

It's not a "liberal perspective," it's a fact of Constitutional law, all rights are subject to reasonable restrictions, including the Second Amendment right.

saying I can't own a semi-automatic rifle "just because" I may one day go batshit crazy is not a reasonable restriction. And I put it to the point that being reasonable is not the criteria you have to meet when it comes to allowing the government to violate a right given under an amendment. There has to be damning and compelling evidence that such a measure is needed, and it must be due to the actions of the individual not that it is just "reasonable, and not that something "may happen"

 

[Care4all]

What we need to be looking at is HOW are these illegal guns making it to the black market, for the criminals to buy....? I don't think they are making it there 1 by 1, but in crap loads at a time....so who is supplying the black market?

Why is it so loosey goosey???

 

[candycorn]

Total ban and confiscation is impractical and possibly illegal. In any event, no one is proposing it. What is being proposed are better background checks, national registration and limited controls on ammunition. The goal is not perfection. The goal is a modest but real reduction in needless slaughter and the beginning of a slowly developing evolution in public consciousness about the role of firearms in our society.

It's how the brain-dead try to win arguments, they make your position out to be unreasonable and demand all or nothing results from what you've come up with. Anything short of that is a failure.

Really, what we should do is basically treat them like we did cigarettes and place giant taxes on the sale. When the price gets too high, the demand dries up, gun companies stop making/importing guns and you have at least cut off the influx. After that, as gun crimes are committed, you confiscate the weapons from the criminals and you begin to cut the supply. You couple that with sentences that work--20 to 30 years if you use or brandish a firearm during a crime; no parole. It will take quite a long time but what you'll end up with is three things:

Guns being so expensive due to lack of supply that the firearms the gun nuts swear you can buy on any street corner (funny how I never see any of these corners) become cost prohibitive. So you have less gun violence.

Guns that would have been sold to law abiding folks who wanted them for protection are not sold so they are not stolen/used by others for commission of crimes

Guns that are bought and used by responsible people for punching paper or hunting or sports shooting or self defense stay in the hands of the responsible people who take gun ownership seriously.

It would just take common sense to implement these steps tomorrow but since the NRA is involved and 200+ old dogma is still believed by 1/2 the population (roughly the same half that believes that some dude sitting on a cloud controls their destiny); there is no chance we will act like grown-ups.

Taxing them for the sake of making it harder for a law abiding citizen to own them is infringement. Again, repeal the 2nd if you want to do that.

And considering I can go to a local bodega and buy smokes (if I wanted to not a smoker) that doesn't have the tax sticker attached, how hard do you think it would be to avoid the gun tax? About as hard as criminals find it to avoid background checks and such.

You keep saying you want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and nutters, but all your proposals involve making it harder for the very law abiding citizens grabbers claim they don't want to impact.

Lies on top of lies, and you wonder why RKBA proponents don't trust gun control supporters?

Your opinions are useless; none of what you said is true. "Infringement" could be argued if the gun companies are charging any price at all so it becomes an argument of degrees of what is standard and customary and what is not.... Now that we have weekly massacres and you support the right to massacre, I doubt jurists would continue to see the logic in maintaining the status quo.

As for the bodega...yeah...whatever...

You increase the costs of gun ownership through taxes, bonds/insurance, permit fees, etc... and the supply dries up.

Once that happens the guns the criminals use become more expensive as well so you'll see a drop in crime. Simple supply and demand. No lie there shitbrains.

Additionally, there will be fewer guns in circulation due to the increased costs and the logical decisions people will make to simply not buy what they do not need.
Again,simple logic. No lie there shitbrains.

Will it stop all gun crime? No. Nothing will. However, the supply becomes less and less as crimes are committed and the police begin confiscating the guns that are used in the crime and tough mandatory sentences are handed down to those who use/brandish a weapon to commit a crime. Again...no lie there--it happens all the time.

If you want to save up for a gun, you can...nobody is infringing on anything except your whiny ass.

The supply of guns will shift over time to responsible gun owners who take the responsibility seriously.

 

[martybegan]

What we need to be looking at is HOW are these illegal guns making it to the black market, for the criminals to buy....? I don't think they are making it there 1 by 1, but in crap loads at a time....so who is supplying the black market?

Why is it so loosey goosey???

Critical mass. with around 400 million guns in circulation you could stop making new ones right now, and still they would be cheap and available. Add in the ones that get stolen, and the ones sold by shady dealers (Laws, btw, that the feds SHOULD be enforcing) and that's where we are.

The other reason is simply DEMAND. Its just like the issue with drugs. You can try to stop the supply all you want, but until the demand disappears you will never be rid of the problem.

 

[Meister]

What we need to be looking at is HOW are these illegal guns making it to the black market, for the criminals to buy....? I don't think they are making it there 1 by 1, but in crap loads at a time....so who is supplying the black market?

Why is it so loosey goosey???

Open borders is one way and not enforcing laws already on the books is in the equation.

 

[candycorn]

What we need to be looking at is HOW are these illegal guns making it to the black market, for the criminals to buy....? I don't think they are making it there 1 by 1, but in crap loads at a time....so who is supplying the black market?

Why is it so loosey goosey???

Gun shows where nobody asks questions. Its a loophole brought to you by the NRA and their partners in mayhem; their members.