The Only Way To Deal With A Situation Like Orlando

[dannyboys]

Given proper military training...

... it might be possible, but...

.. you willin' to be the first to go unarmed...

... up against an AR-15?

If the crowd collapses on the shooter, the few hurried shots he gets off will be less accurate and he can't protect his back and flanks, I'm not saying single individuals should try to take them head on. If 40 rushed him at the same time from all angles he would be down in seconds. If you run, you just give them a clear field of fire where they can take time to aim.

I was also thinking about the bull rush tactic where you bull rush the individual but you need a large group and some of you will most likely die.

Duh, there were 300 people in that club, most already on their feet, the shooter could have been rushed from all sides and taken down in seconds.

You don't have to be a dick in your response and I was actually agreeing with you that you could have rushed him.

The only thing is most people are not trained that way and do not think that way, so you never know what will happen from time to time.

Now with that I will no longer respond to you...

Wasn't trying to be a dick, this whole thread is emphasizing the need for training our people, we can no longer be spectators, the game is now on our home turf and we have to start preparing people for that reality.

Sane people are already prepared. Try breaking into their homes and watch the lead fly.
The only way to deal with sub-human muslims is to be armed and willing to shoot to kill. Had one of those people wore a holstered gun instead of a fucking feather boa most of the dead would be alive today.
Simple fact.

 

[dannyboys]

Given proper military training...

... it might be possible, but...

.. you willin' to be the first to go unarmed...

... up against an AR-15?

If the crowd collapses on the shooter, the few hurried shots he gets off will be less accurate and he can't protect his back and flanks, I'm not saying single individuals should try to take them head on. If 40 rushed him at the same time from all angles he would be down in seconds. If you run, you just give them a clear field of fire where they can take time to aim.

Good luck convincing and coordinating all those people in a matter of seconds, and be prepared to be the first guy in and the first guy dead.

1. The first guy is already most likely dead. 2. The coordination would have already been accomplished by everyone having the same training. 3. A couple of folks might get shot taking him down, but it won't be a hundred or more, you understand that, right?

Give it up, it's unrealistic to think you are going to institute a training program for over 300,000,000 people whereby enough of them will be committed to rush a shooter when they find themselves in that situation. And at what cost, how are you going to fund it? As I said, in theory it would work, but it is wholly impractical.

You do it in schools, the cost would be minimal. What's the alternative?

"You rush him first. I'll be right behind you".
I get it now. You're fourteen years old.

 

[dannyboys]

Good luck convincing and coordinating all those people in a matter of seconds, and be prepared to be the first guy in and the first guy dead.

1. The first guy is already most likely dead. 2. The coordination would have already been accomplished by everyone having the same training. 3. A couple of folks might get shot taking him down, but it won't be a hundred or more, you understand that, right?

Give it up, it's unrealistic to think you are going to institute a training program for over 300,000,000 people whereby enough of them will be committed to rush a shooter when they find themselves in that situation. And at what cost, how are you going to fund it? As I said, in theory it would work, but it is wholly impractical.

You do it in schools, the cost would be minimal. What's the alternative?

It's not a fire drill. Whatever dude. I'm done talking about. Good luck with it.

Like a former boss told me one time, don't piss on an idea unless you have a better one. I take it you have no alternative.

I have an alternative: Permanent Ignore. Go join the other adolescent assholes.

 

[indago]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

Or arm the victims to start with. It was a gun free zone.

If it was "a gun free zone", what was Omar Mateen doing in there with a gun, besides shooting people?

 

[OKTexas]

If the crowd collapses on the shooter, the few hurried shots he gets off will be less accurate and he can't protect his back and flanks, I'm not saying single individuals should try to take them head on. If 40 rushed him at the same time from all angles he would be down in seconds. If you run, you just give them a clear field of fire where they can take time to aim.

I was also thinking about the bull rush tactic where you bull rush the individual but you need a large group and some of you will most likely die.

Duh, there were 300 people in that club, most already on their feet, the shooter could have been rushed from all sides and taken down in seconds.

You don't have to be a dick in your response and I was actually agreeing with you that you could have rushed him.

The only thing is most people are not trained that way and do not think that way, so you never know what will happen from time to time.

Now with that I will no longer respond to you...

Wasn't trying to be a dick, this whole thread is emphasizing the need for training our people, we can no longer be spectators, the game is now on our home turf and we have to start preparing people for that reality.

Sane people are already prepared. Try breaking into their homes and watch the lead fly.
The only way to deal with sub-human muslims is to be armed and willing to shoot to kill. Had one of those people wore a holstered gun instead of a fucking feather boa most of the dead would be alive today.
Simple fact.

You know they can't legally carry in a night club in FL, right? My proposal deals with the situation legally.

 

[OKTexas]

If the crowd collapses on the shooter, the few hurried shots he gets off will be less accurate and he can't protect his back and flanks, I'm not saying single individuals should try to take them head on. If 40 rushed him at the same time from all angles he would be down in seconds. If you run, you just give them a clear field of fire where they can take time to aim.

Good luck convincing and coordinating all those people in a matter of seconds, and be prepared to be the first guy in and the first guy dead.

1. The first guy is already most likely dead. 2. The coordination would have already been accomplished by everyone having the same training. 3. A couple of folks might get shot taking him down, but it won't be a hundred or more, you understand that, right?

Give it up, it's unrealistic to think you are going to institute a training program for over 300,000,000 people whereby enough of them will be committed to rush a shooter when they find themselves in that situation. And at what cost, how are you going to fund it? As I said, in theory it would work, but it is wholly impractical.

You do it in schools, the cost would be minimal. What's the alternative?

"You rush him first. I'll be right behind you".
I get it now. You're fourteen years old.

1 guy took down an active shooter a day or two before, only one person killed. I'm suggesting people do it in mass.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

Or arm the victims to start with. It was a gun free zone.

If it was "a gun free zone", what was Omar Mateen doing in there with a gun, besides shooting people?

Apparently breaking the law. A thing criminals do. Weird how criminals break the law.

 

[waltky]

OKTexas wrote: Well so much for being the land of the free and the home of the brave. I guess everyone should just follow your advice, just stand still and get shot. Maybe you should call your dear leader and tell him to have ISIS to come on in, America has been officially pussified and there will be no resistance.

Who said anything about standing still and getting shot?

If ya can't sneak up behind him and clobber him with something...

... run like hell!

 

[charwin95]

Just seeing someone raising a gun in a crowd doesn't justify shooting them, it could be an undercover cop seeing something you don't. You obviously haven't had much training.

Another thing people aren't considering in this particular situation when they said more guns would have helped is that it was obviously a very crowded club. I'm not sure a bunch of untrained people shooting across the club would have made the situation much better. How do you even tell who the bad guy is at that point?

I've mentioned this kind of scenario many many times.
Also gun shooting at university........... Just imagine untrained students running around with guns ............ How would you know who is the bad guy or good guys?

And this has happened.....the guys not shooting innocent people are the good guys, the guys shooting innocent people are the bad guys......

Again...students at a university would be 21 years old in order to carry a gun.....hardly an 18 year old with a gun is it?

Nah........ It will be chaotic and massive confusions. How do you even know who is the bad guy or good guy? If a student is shooting....... How do I know he is shooting at the bad guy? If i ran into one of this students shooting. guarantee you I will grab him and take his/her gun away. How many 21 or 22 yo students do you think are trained and behave like you? Have you seen these kids behave and wild at parties?

I have seen 18 year olds in the uniform of the U.S. military who volunteer to go into combat...to take horrible wounds and risk death to protect our country....

You mean those 21 year old?

Mentality of 21yo at universities is different from 21yo in the military.

 

[2aguy]

Another thing people aren't considering in this particular situation when they said more guns would have helped is that it was obviously a very crowded club. I'm not sure a bunch of untrained people shooting across the club would have made the situation much better. How do you even tell who the bad guy is at that point?

I've mentioned this kind of scenario many many times.
Also gun shooting at university........... Just imagine untrained students running around with guns ............ How would you know who is the bad guy or good guys?

And this has happened.....the guys not shooting innocent people are the good guys, the guys shooting innocent people are the bad guys......

Again...students at a university would be 21 years old in order to carry a gun.....hardly an 18 year old with a gun is it?

Nah........ It will be chaotic and massive confusions. How do you even know who is the bad guy or good guy? If a student is shooting....... How do I know he is shooting at the bad guy? If i ran into one of this students shooting. guarantee you I will grab him and take his/her gun away. How many 21 or 22 yo students do you think are trained and behave like you? Have you seen these kids behave and wild at parties?

I have seen 18 year olds in the uniform of the U.S. military who volunteer to go into combat...to take horrible wounds and risk death to protect our country....

You mean those 21 year old?

Mentality of 21yo at universities is different from 21yo in the military.

Wrong...studies...you know...actual research...shows that gun owners who carry guns are more law abiding than other citizens...in fact, they are even more law abiding than sworn police officers...actual research into arrests and permit holders....

You are wrong.

 

[Nosmo King]

Good luck convincing and coordinating all those people in a matter of seconds, and be prepared to be the first guy in and the first guy dead.

1. The first guy is already most likely dead. 2. The coordination would have already been accomplished by everyone having the same training. 3. A couple of folks might get shot taking him down, but it won't be a hundred or more, you understand that, right?

Give it up, it's unrealistic to think you are going to institute a training program for over 300,000,000 people whereby enough of them will be committed to rush a shooter when they find themselves in that situation. And at what cost, how are you going to fund it? As I said, in theory it would work, but it is wholly impractical.

You do it in schools, the cost would be minimal. What's the alternative?

"You rush him first. I'll be right behind you".
I get it now. You're fourteen years old.

1 guy took down an active shooter a day or two before, only one person killed. I'm suggesting people do it in mass.

Ever hear of panic?

 

[2aguy]

1. The first guy is already most likely dead. 2. The coordination would have already been accomplished by everyone having the same training. 3. A couple of folks might get shot taking him down, but it won't be a hundred or more, you understand that, right?

Give it up, it's unrealistic to think you are going to institute a training program for over 300,000,000 people whereby enough of them will be committed to rush a shooter when they find themselves in that situation. And at what cost, how are you going to fund it? As I said, in theory it would work, but it is wholly impractical.

You do it in schools, the cost would be minimal. What's the alternative?

"You rush him first. I'll be right behind you".
I get it now. You're fourteen years old.

1 guy took down an active shooter a day or two before, only one person killed. I'm suggesting people do it in mass.

Ever hear of panic?

We see it every time a Muslim murders innocent people in this country...the left goes into a panick because they have to make up excuses as to why the killer wasn't really a Muslim and didn't yell allahu archbar before he started killing people....

 

[Nosmo King]

Give it up, it's unrealistic to think you are going to institute a training program for over 300,000,000 people whereby enough of them will be committed to rush a shooter when they find themselves in that situation. And at what cost, how are you going to fund it? As I said, in theory it would work, but it is wholly impractical.

You do it in schools, the cost would be minimal. What's the alternative?

"You rush him first. I'll be right behind you".
I get it now. You're fourteen years old.

1 guy took down an active shooter a day or two before, only one person killed. I'm suggesting people do it in mass.

Ever hear of panic?

We see it every time a Muslim murders innocent people in this country...the left goes into a panick because they have to make up excuses as to why the killer wasn't really a Muslim and didn't yell allahu archbar before he started killing people....

Settle down, Judy. I meant: you're in a crowd at a bar, or maybe n your classroom. A maniac carrying an AR-15, the weapon of choice for mass shootings because it gets the job done fast. TheOP suggests everyone rush the shooter. Now is when we consider panic. Are humans predisposed to rush into a hail of bullets to rake down the shooter? Let's live in a bit of reality and take the possibility of panic into the equation.

Remember, we are dealing with humans here, the same species that will rush the gates at soccer matches and rock concerts ans subsequently trample each other to death.

 

[OKTexas]

You do it in schools, the cost would be minimal. What's the alternative?

"You rush him first. I'll be right behind you".
I get it now. You're fourteen years old.

1 guy took down an active shooter a day or two before, only one person killed. I'm suggesting people do it in mass.

Ever hear of panic?

We see it every time a Muslim murders innocent people in this country...the left goes into a panick because they have to make up excuses as to why the killer wasn't really a Muslim and didn't yell allahu archbar before he started killing people....

Settle down, Judy. I meant: you're in a crowd at a bar, or maybe n your classroom. A maniac carrying an AR-15, the weapon of choice for mass shootings because it gets the job done fast. TheOP suggests everyone rush the shooter. Now is when we consider panic. Are humans predisposed to rush into a hail of bullets to rake down the shooter? Let's live in a bit of reality and take the possibility of panic into the equation.

Remember, we are dealing with humans here, the same species that will rush the gates at soccer matches and rock concerts ans subsequently trample each other to death.

Just can't get the concept of training people on how to react, can ya? It's the same as teaching scuba divers not to panic if something goes wrong under water, which is the natural instinct. Properly trained people don't panic, they have been programed to react. It's really not that hard, it just takes the commitment.

 

[Nosmo King]

"You rush him first. I'll be right behind you".
I get it now. You're fourteen years old.

1 guy took down an active shooter a day or two before, only one person killed. I'm suggesting people do it in mass.

Ever hear of panic?

We see it every time a Muslim murders innocent people in this country...the left goes into a panick because they have to make up excuses as to why the killer wasn't really a Muslim and didn't yell allahu archbar before he started killing people....

Settle down, Judy. I meant: you're in a crowd at a bar, or maybe n your classroom. A maniac carrying an AR-15, the weapon of choice for mass shootings because it gets the job done fast. TheOP suggests everyone rush the shooter. Now is when we consider panic. Are humans predisposed to rush into a hail of bullets to rake down the shooter? Let's live in a bit of reality and take the possibility of panic into the equation.

Remember, we are dealing with humans here, the same species that will rush the gates at soccer matches and rock concerts ans subsequently trample each other to death.

Just can't get the concept of training people on how to react, can ya? It's the same as teaching scuba divers not to panic if something goes wrong under water, which is the natural instinct. Properly trained people don't panic, they have been programed to react. It's really not that hard, it just takes the commitment.

Idiot.

SCUBA divers, sky divers, Matadors, race car drivers. Risky avocations. These folks ARE trained to deal with panic.

A family going to the movies. Not so risky.

How about eliminating the big risk and get those damnable weapons off the streets.

It's funny, but gun nuts want to train people to face bullets calmly rather than give up those phallic power weapons.

Idiots.

 

[2aguy]

You do it in schools, the cost would be minimal. What's the alternative?

"You rush him first. I'll be right behind you".
I get it now. You're fourteen years old.

1 guy took down an active shooter a day or two before, only one person killed. I'm suggesting people do it in mass.

Ever hear of panic?

We see it every time a Muslim murders innocent people in this country...the left goes into a panick because they have to make up excuses as to why the killer wasn't really a Muslim and didn't yell allahu archbar before he started killing people....

Settle down, Judy. I meant: you're in a crowd at a bar, or maybe n your

classroom. A maniac carrying an AR-15, the weapon of choice for mass shootings because it gets the job done fast. TheOP suggests everyone rush the shooter. Now is when we consider panic. Are humans predisposed to rush into a hail of bullets to rake down the shooter? Let's live in a bit of reality and take the possibility of panic into the equation.

Remember, we are dealing with humans here, the same species that will rush the gates at soccer matches and rock concerts ans subsequently trample each other to death.

I have listened to the statements of survivors in the club........opportunity after opportunity to shot this guy by the people actually there......some in covered positions...others in line to be shot again but with time to shoot him......

Watch "Terror at the Mall" you will see how victims in these mass shootings have opportunities to stop these shooters...but can't because they are in gun free zones....

 

[OKTexas]

1 guy took down an active shooter a day or two before, only one person killed. I'm suggesting people do it in mass.

Ever hear of panic?

We see it every time a Muslim murders innocent people in this country...the left goes into a panick because they have to make up excuses as to why the killer wasn't really a Muslim and didn't yell allahu archbar before he started killing people....

Settle down, Judy. I meant: you're in a crowd at a bar, or maybe n your classroom. A maniac carrying an AR-15, the weapon of choice for mass shootings because it gets the job done fast. TheOP suggests everyone rush the shooter. Now is when we consider panic. Are humans predisposed to rush into a hail of bullets to rake down the shooter? Let's live in a bit of reality and take the possibility of panic into the equation.

Remember, we are dealing with humans here, the same species that will rush the gates at soccer matches and rock concerts ans subsequently trample each other to death.

Just can't get the concept of training people on how to react, can ya? It's the same as teaching scuba divers not to panic if something goes wrong under water, which is the natural instinct. Properly trained people don't panic, they have been programed to react. It's really not that hard, it just takes the commitment.

Idiot.

SCUBA divers, sky divers, Matadors, race car drivers. Risky avocations. These folks ARE trained to deal with panic.

A family going to the movies. Not so risky.

How about eliminating the big risk and get those damnable weapons off the streets.

It's funny, but gun nuts want to train people to face bullets calmly rather than give up those phallic power weapons.

Idiots.

Sorry oh ignorant one, it's not the gun nuts, as you call them, doing the crimes, it's real nuts. So get off your ass and deal with them. Until then I want to see people trained to be victorious first responders instead of just victims. Regardless, since they are the ones on scene, they will be first responders, how would you prefer them to respond, die quickly or take the guy down quickly and limit the injuries?

 

[2aguy]

1 guy took down an active shooter a day or two before, only one person killed. I'm suggesting people do it in mass.

Ever hear of panic?

We see it every time a Muslim murders innocent people in this country...the left goes into a panick because they have to make up excuses as to why the killer wasn't really a Muslim and didn't yell allahu archbar before he started killing people....

Settle down, Judy. I meant: you're in a crowd at a bar, or maybe n your classroom. A maniac carrying an AR-15, the weapon of choice for mass shootings because it gets the job done fast. TheOP suggests everyone rush the shooter. Now is when we consider panic. Are humans predisposed to rush into a hail of bullets to rake down the shooter? Let's live in a bit of reality and take the possibility of panic into the equation.

Remember, we are dealing with humans here, the same species that will rush the gates at soccer matches and rock concerts ans subsequently trample each other to death.

Just can't get the concept of training people on how to react, can ya? It's the same as teaching scuba divers not to panic if something goes wrong under water, which is the natural instinct. Properly trained people don't panic, they have been programed to react. It's really not that hard, it just takes the commitment.

Idiot.

SCUBA divers, sky divers, Matadors, race car drivers. Risky avocations. These folks ARE trained to deal with panic.

A family going to the movies. Not so risky.

How about eliminating the big risk and get those damnable weapons off the streets.

It's funny, but gun nuts want to train people to face bullets calmly rather than give up those phallic power weapons.

Idiots.

Those weapons are not used for crime and are used 1 time a year for these shootings...and now...close to 5,000,000 AR-15s are not used for mass shootings.....

5,000,000 to 1.... How is that a fucking problem.....?


No one uses them for crime and only one or two nuts a year use them for mass shootings and they only kill a lot of people because they do the shootings in gun free zones.....and as many times as they are used in mass shootings...1 or 2 times a year.....they are used for self defense.....I have posted the story....

When they are used over 50,000 times a year...then you can tell us they are a problem.,,,

And again..the sex talk...get help...guns are not for sex........

 

[OKTexas]

1 guy took down an active shooter a day or two before, only one person killed. I'm suggesting people do it in mass.

Ever hear of panic?

We see it every time a Muslim murders innocent people in this country...the left goes into a panick because they have to make up excuses as to why the killer wasn't really a Muslim and didn't yell allahu archbar before he started killing people....

Settle down, Judy. I meant: you're in a crowd at a bar, or maybe n your classroom. A maniac carrying an AR-15, the weapon of choice for mass shootings because it gets the job done fast. TheOP suggests everyone rush the shooter. Now is when we consider panic. Are humans predisposed to rush into a hail of bullets to rake down the shooter? Let's live in a bit of reality and take the possibility of panic into the equation.

Remember, we are dealing with humans here, the same species that will rush the gates at soccer matches and rock concerts ans subsequently trample each other to death.

Just can't get the concept of training people on how to react, can ya? It's the same as teaching scuba divers not to panic if something goes wrong under water, which is the natural instinct. Properly trained people don't panic, they have been programed to react. It's really not that hard, it just takes the commitment.

Idiot.

SCUBA divers, sky divers, Matadors, race car drivers. Risky avocations. These folks ARE trained to deal with panic.

A family going to the movies. Not so risky.

How about eliminating the big risk and get those damnable weapons off the streets.

It's funny, but gun nuts want to train people to face bullets calmly rather than give up those phallic power weapons.

Idiots.

BTW, I took my first scuba class at age 11, I was a year too young to be certified at that time, but I did pass the course. That was way back in 1962, they still had the dual hose regulators, like they used on Sea Hunt.

 

[Nosmo King]

Ever hear of panic?

We see it every time a Muslim murders innocent people in this country...the left goes into a panick because they have to make up excuses as to why the killer wasn't really a Muslim and didn't yell allahu archbar before he started killing people....

Settle down, Judy. I meant: you're in a crowd at a bar, or maybe n your classroom. A maniac carrying an AR-15, the weapon of choice for mass shootings because it gets the job done fast. TheOP suggests everyone rush the shooter. Now is when we consider panic. Are humans predisposed to rush into a hail of bullets to rake down the shooter? Let's live in a bit of reality and take the possibility of panic into the equation.

Remember, we are dealing with humans here, the same species that will rush the gates at soccer matches and rock concerts ans subsequently trample each other to death.

Just can't get the concept of training people on how to react, can ya? It's the same as teaching scuba divers not to panic if something goes wrong under water, which is the natural instinct. Properly trained people don't panic, they have been programed to react. It's really not that hard, it just takes the commitment.

Idiot.

SCUBA divers, sky divers, Matadors, race car drivers. Risky avocations. These folks ARE trained to deal with panic.

A family going to the movies. Not so risky.

How about eliminating the big risk and get those damnable weapons off the streets.

It's funny, but gun nuts want to train people to face bullets calmly rather than give up those phallic power weapons.

Idiots.

BTW, I took my first scuba class at age 11, I was a year too young to be certified at that time, but I did pass the course. That was way back in 1962, they still had the dual hose regulators, like they used on Sea Hunt.

And I have 68 minutes of free fall time.

Loved Sae Hunt!