The Only Way To Deal With A Situation Like Orlando

[midcan5]

I didn't read much of this thread but the opening OP and a few comments prove one thing, Americans are ... I 'm not sure how to say that nicely.

But this is America folks, according to our congress, the NRA, presidential candidates galore, gun makers and a weird reading of the 2nd every nutcase has a right to be a mass murderer. It's written into the baloney that passes for thought in America, having a zillion guns keeps you safe, well it doesn't but that doesn't really matter. Any nut hate filled person and or mentally unstable crackpot has this right, didn't the SCOTUS say so? And folks Congress needs money to pad their pockets and gun makers, and the NRA provide it, along with the blessing of idiots in journalism. This is so simple folks, it comes with the freedom to be stupid. Consequences don't matter when you say freedom five times.

Oh and for those who think rushing a loaded assault rifle is a sensible option, why not give it a try. The genetic makeup of the country would surely be improved.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Or arm the victims to start with. It was a gun free zone.

In a crowd density like that club it could take too much time to get an angle for a clean shot.

The gunman didn't have any trouble getting an angle. Besides, if enough are armed, one has to be close enough when he enters.

Ok, you keep thinking that, I'm telling you what will work to minimize causalities 100% of the time.

And you're not wrong. It would minimize casualties. So would actually arming the victims, since they'd be able to gun down the lowlife as soon as he enters the building and raises his gun.

Just seeing someone raising a gun in a crowd doesn't justify shooting them, it could be an undercover cop seeing something you don't. You obviously haven't had much training.

If he is carring an AR-15 in a crowd he is not an undercover cop.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

I didn't read much of this thread but the opening OP and a few comments prove one thing, Americans are ... I 'm not sure how to say that nicely.

But this is America folks, according to our congress, the NRA, presidential candidates galore, gun makers and a weird reading of the 2nd every nutcase has a right to be a mass murderer. It's written into the baloney that passes for thought in America, having a zillion guns keeps you safe, well it doesn't but that doesn't really matter. Any nut hate filled person and or mentally unstable crackpot has this right, didn't the SCOTUS say so? And folks Congress needs money to pad their pockets and gun makers, and the NRA provide it, along with the blessing of idiots in journalism. This is so simple folks, it comes with the freedom to be stupid. Consequences don't matter when you say freedom five times.

Oh and for those who think rushing a loaded assault rifle is a sensible option, why not give it a try. The genetic makeup of the country would surely be improved.

And yet the 44 million other legal gun owners in this country did not go out and murder a single person and never will.
"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." sounds pretty specific to me and not weird at all.

 

[dannyboys]

Let's be honest. In this particular situation anyone armed with a kid's plastic baseball bat could have done what the sub-human muslim did.
Not many 'MMA' fighters in the crowd.
Maybe the gays in the US will wise up and finally comprehend every follower of the coran is instructed to exterminate every gay on the planet.
Trump's plan to carefully vet muslims applying to come to the US and to greatly enhance the surveillance of muslims already in the US will save thousands of gays from being terminated.

 

[OKTexas]

How about if we just keep muslims out of the country?

I got no problem with that either. But please stay on topic.

 

[bodecea]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

Not everyone instinctively does that.....military trained probably would tho.

 

[bodecea]

If only George Zimmerman had been there to save them all.

 

[OKTexas]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

In most situations this would work. The death toll wold be far lower. The problem with it is when they attack soft targets like these they do so for a reason, and that is the people already have a victim mentality so remain victims.

Proper training could easily overcome that.

Agreed. The problem is getting them to take the training.

That's why you start early in school.

 

[OKTexas]

If this place has nothing else, it has a shitload of self appointed experts.

So of course you have an alternative, right? Let's hear it, or STFU.

 

[SixFoot]

You don't know the power of the profile flags.

 

[bodecea]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

In most situations this would work. The death toll wold be far lower. The problem with it is when they attack soft targets like these they do so for a reason, and that is the people already have a victim mentality so remain victims.

That's interesting....what is it that made this a "soft target" that the "people already have a victim mentality"?

 

[bodecea]

Let's be honest. In this particular situation anyone armed with a kid's plastic baseball bat could have done what the sub-human muslim did.
Not many 'MMA' fighters in the crowd.
Maybe the gays in the US will wise up and finally comprehend every follower of the coran is instructed to exterminate every gay on the planet.
Trump's plan to carefully vet muslims applying to come to the US and to greatly enhance the surveillance of muslims already in the US will save thousands of gays from being terminated.

"In this particular situation anyone armed with a kid's plastic baseball bat could have done what the sub-human muslim did".....?

So a kid's plastic baseball bat is as deadly as an AR-15.

Interesting attitude toward deadly weaponry you have.

 

[OKTexas]

In a crowd density like that club it could take too much time to get an angle for a clean shot.

The gunman didn't have any trouble getting an angle. Besides, if enough are armed, one has to be close enough when he enters.

Ok, you keep thinking that, I'm telling you what will work to minimize causalities 100% of the time.

And you're not wrong. It would minimize casualties. So would actually arming the victims, since they'd be able to gun down the lowlife as soon as he enters the building and raises his gun.

Just seeing someone raising a gun in a crowd doesn't justify shooting them, it could be an undercover cop seeing something you don't. You obviously haven't had much training.

If he is carring an AR-15 in a crowd he is not an undercover cop.

If you note the poster didn't specify an AR in their post, just said when they raise their gun.

 

[Dana7360]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

Well if they didn't have a magazine that held more than say 6 or 10 bullets maybe your theory might work.

But that's not reality in America. Here in America a person can have an assault weapon that kills large amounts of people in a matter of a few minutes. Large capacity magazines to ensure they kill a large amount of humans before they have to reload.

Here's a idea. Ban high capacity magazines.

Here's another idea. Ban assault weapons.

If this man had not had access to an assault weapon and high capacity magazine clips, none of this would have happened.

And don't tell me that can't be done. It was done in the 90s. The republicans allowed the ban to expire in the bush boy years and we've had countless mass murders since then.

By the way, democrats tried to ban weapons from terrorists and possible terrorists. The republicans filibustered the bill and killed it.

So when the republicans stop preventing common sense laws from being enacted, THEN I might take you all seriously about terrorism and mass murders.

Right now, you're part of the problem so nothing you all say or do means anything to me.

 

[OKTexas]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

Not everyone instinctively does that.....military trained probably would tho.

Reading comprehension not real good this morning, I said people have to be TAUGHT to respond this way. It's called training.

 

[Dana7360]

Given proper military training...

... it might be possible, but...

.. you willin' to be the first to go unarmed...

... up against an AR-15?

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

Or arm the victims to start with. It was a gun free zone.

Every police who responded to that murder that evening had a weapon.

It took ELEVEN highly trained police offers to stop and kill that man but you believe an untrained civilian who is partying will.

That's the problem with you people. YOU DON'T THINK.

 

[OKTexas]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

Well if they didn't have a magazine that held more than say 6 or 10 bullets maybe your theory might work.

But that's not reality in America. Here in America a person can have an assault weapon that kills large amounts of people in a matter of a few minutes. Large capacity magazines to ensure they kill a large amount of humans before they have to reload.

Here's a idea. Ban high capacity magazines.

Here's another idea. Ban assault weapons.

If this man had not had access to an assault weapon and high capacity magazine clips, none of this would have happened.

And don't tell me that can't be done. It was done in the 90s. The republicans allowed the ban to expire in the bush boy years and we've had countless mass murders since then.

By the way, democrats tried to ban weapons from terrorists and possible terrorists. The republicans filibustered the bill and killed it.

So when the republicans stop preventing common sense laws from being enacted, THEN I might take you all seriously about terrorism and mass murders.

Right now, you're part of the problem so nothing you all say or do means anything to me.

It would work if they had a hundred round magazine. Now run along with your gun grabbing bullshit.

 

[bodecea]

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

Not everyone instinctively does that.....military trained probably would tho.

Reading comprehension not real good this morning, I said people have to be TAUGHT to respond this way. It's called training.

Ok....so, what's your plan for teaching everyone?

 

[OKTexas]

Given proper military training...

... it might be possible, but...

.. you willin' to be the first to go unarmed...

... up against an AR-15?

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

Or arm the victims to start with. It was a gun free zone.

Every police who responded to that murder that evening had a weapon.

It took ELEVEN highly trained police offers to stop and kill that man but you believe an untrained civilian who is partying will.

That's the problem with you people. YOU DON'T THINK.

Well dumb ass I could set up a demonstration with a paint ball gun and prove otherwise. You're the one not thinking.

 

[bodecea]

Given proper military training...

... it might be possible, but...

.. you willin' to be the first to go unarmed...

... up against an AR-15?

This may sound counter intuitive but the only way to save lives when a gunman opens fire in a crowd is for the crowd to collapse on them and take them down and never give them a chance to reload. No shooter would get off more than a few rounds if people were taught to respond in this manner.

You thoughts?

Or arm the victims to start with. It was a gun free zone.

Every police who responded to that murder that evening had a weapon.

It took ELEVEN highly trained police offers to stop and kill that man but you believe an untrained civilian who is partying will.

That's the problem with you people. YOU DON'T THINK.

Well dumb ass I could set up a demonstration with a paint ball gun and prove otherwise. You're the one not thinking.

I will wager you will get more people willing to rush a paint ball gun than you will to rush an AR-15. As someone else said....this is not the movies.