"The Pitchforks are coming...for us Plutocrats."

[JoeB131]

Oh really- Then what are your observations relative to 'how' Stretch Pelosi and that witch Feinstein made their 1%?

-Geaux

For stretch she dabbles in the Asian markets tied to outsourcing of US jobs to help line her pockets

According to Pelosi’s 2011 financial disclosure statement, the Democratic House Minority Leader received between $1 million and $5 million in partnership income from ”Matthews International Capital Management LLC,” a group that emphasizes that it has a “A Singular Focus on Investing in Asia.” A quick trip to the company website reveals a featured post extolling the virtues of outsourcing.

Read more: Nancy Pelosi made $1-5 million on Asian investments | The Daily Caller

"Where the Money Lives
For all Mitt Romney’s touting of his business record, when it comes to his own money the Republican nominee is remarkably shy about disclosing numbers and investments. Nicholas Shaxson delves into the murky world of offshore finance, revealing loopholes that allow the very wealthy to skirt tax laws, and investigating just how much of Romney’s fortune (with $30 million in Bain Capital funds in the Cayman Islands alone?) looks pretty strange for a presidential candidate."

Investigation: Mitt Romney?s Offshore Accounts, Tax Loopholes, and Mysterious I.R.A. | Vanity Fair

Seems what's good for the goose is evil for the gander in the hypocrisy of right wing dishonest morons.

SOP for a Republican.

Seems to me that the Repubs get mad at rich Democrats BECAUSE they are not REPUBLICAN. They (Repubs) just can't understand it. Some of the richest members of Congress are Democrats. How could that be? Repubs believe that Dems are lazy and unmotivated. Won't work. How could they get so rich and not be a Republican.

Drives em crazy.

I think it's a little worse than that.

they got there without screwing over the little people and actually think you should stand up for working folks.

 

[Geaux4it]

No, I still don't think you are understanding the point I was making. I could try explaining it to you again, but you still wouldn't' understand it.

Yea your right Joe, go ahead to another subject

-Geaux

Um, no, you see, I wasn't discussing who had money.

I was discussing what their policies are.

POLICY.

Republicans- I've got mine, fuck you.

Democrats- I've got mine, but I'm going to make sure no one can take advantage of you because they have more power and money.

I'll make a deal with you Joe. You ask me nicely to delete the quote and I will do so. We all say some pretty outlandish things Joe, so I offer the option. If not, can it become a sig line quote? That's quite the declaration your making Joe.

I'll give you some time to think it over, OK?

-Geaux

 

[JoeB131]

Yea your right Joe, go ahead to another subject

-Geaux

Um, no, you see, I wasn't discussing who had money.

I was discussing what their policies are.

POLICY.

Republicans- I've got mine, fuck you.

Democrats- I've got mine, but I'm going to make sure no one can take advantage of you because they have more power and money.

I'll make a deal with you Joe. You ask me nicely to delete the quote and I will do so. We all say some pretty outlandish things Joe, so I offer the option. If not, can it become a sig line quote? That's quite the declaration your making Joe.

I'll give you some time to think it over, OK?

-Geaux

What the fuck are you talking about? THat didn't even make sense in English.

Man, I can tell you are a Southerner. Only Southerners fight for the right to be abused by the rich and are happy about it.

 

[Bfgrn]

.

Here's the paradox.

On one hand, it takes some serious mental gymnastics to avoid the fact that (a) income and wealth have, and continue to, get more and more out of any kind of balance, (b) as that momentum speeds up the imbalance will only get worse, (c) there are clear negative ramifications if it gets much worse. And I'm not talking morality, I'm talking about the economic foundation and stability of the country.

On the other hand, we also (a) have a government that has truly and richly deserved its low approval ratings, (b) is prone to knee-jerk decisions that over-shoot and ultimately makes things even worse, and (c) don't want to lose an equilibrium between effort and reward, for both individuals and businesses.

That doesn't even count those who go ape shit because someone else has more than they do. These are the people who so easily talk themselves into naive and ignorant notions like "you didn't build that" and "you didn't earn that".

This situation is a perfect example of the damage being caused by the zealots on both ends of the argument. This is going to require cooperation from both ends of the spectrum, and right now both ends are putting ideology before country.

The fixes really wouldn't be that complicated.

.

Let's hear them?

The first thing to understand is the difference between the natural person and the fictitious person called a corporation. They differ in the purpose for which they are created, in the strength which they possess, and in the restraints under which they act. Man is the handiwork of God and was placed upon earth to carry out a Divine purpose; the corporation is the handiwork of man and created to carry out a money-making policy. There is comparatively little difference in the strength of men; a corporation may be one hundred, one thousand, or even one million times stronger than the average man. Man acts under the restraints of conscience, and is influenced also by a belief in a future life. A corporation has no soul and cares nothing about the hereafter.
—William Jennings Bryan, 1912 Ohio Constitutional Convention

 

[Bfgrn]

Past Featured Article
ELECTION 2006


Class Struggle

American workers have a chance to be heard.

by JIM WEBB

Wednesday, November 15, 2006 12:01 A.M. EST

The most important--and unfortunately the least debated--issue in politics today is our society's steady drift toward a class-based system, the likes of which we have not seen since the 19th century. America's top tier has grown infinitely richer and more removed over the past 25 years. It is not unfair to say that they are literally living in a different country. Few among them send their children to public schools; fewer still send their loved ones to fight our wars. They own most of our stocks, making the stock market an unreliable indicator of the economic health of working people. The top 1% now takes in an astounding 16% of national income, up from 8% in 1980. The tax codes protect them, just as they protect corporate America, through a vast system of loopholes.

Incestuous corporate boards regularly approve compensation packages for chief executives and others that are out of logic's range. As this newspaper has reported, the average CEO of a sizeable corporation makes more than $10 million a year, while the minimum wage for workers amounts to about $10,000 a year, and has not been raised in nearly a decade. When I graduated from college in the 1960s, the average CEO made 20 times what the average worker made. Today, that CEO makes 400 times as much.

In the age of globalization and outsourcing, and with a vast underground labor pool from illegal immigration, the average American worker is seeing a different life and a troubling future. Trickle-down economics didn't happen. Despite the vaunted all-time highs of the stock market, wages and salaries are at all-time lows as a percentage of the national wealth. At the same time, medical costs have risen 73% in the last six years alone. Half of that increase comes from wage-earners' pockets rather than from insurance, and 47 million Americans have no medical insurance at all.

Manufacturing jobs are disappearing. Many earned pension programs have collapsed in the wake of corporate "reorganization." And workers' ability to negotiate their futures has been eviscerated by the twin threats of modern corporate America: If they complain too loudly, their jobs might either be outsourced overseas or given to illegal immigrants.

This ever-widening divide is too often ignored or downplayed by its beneficiaries. A sense of entitlement has set in among elites, bordering on hubris. When I raised this issue with corporate leaders during the recent political campaign, I was met repeatedly with denials, and, from some, an overt lack of concern for those who are falling behind.

A troubling arrogance is in the air among the nation's most fortunate. Some shrug off large-scale economic and social dislocations as the inevitable byproducts of the "rough road of capitalism." Others claim that it's the fault of the worker or the public education system, that the average American is simply not up to the international challenge, that our education system fails us, or that our workers have become spoiled by old notions of corporate paternalism.

Still others have gone so far as to argue that these divisions are the natural results of a competitive society. Furthermore, an unspoken insinuation seems to be inundating our national debate: Certain immigrant groups have the "right genetics" and thus are natural entrants to the "overclass," while others, as well as those who come from stock that has been here for 200 years and have not made it to the top, simply don't possess the necessary attributes.

Most Americans reject such notions. But the true challenge is for everyone to understand that the current economic divisions in society are harmful to our future. It should be the first order of business for the new Congress to begin addressing these divisions, and to work to bring true fairness back to economic life. Workers already understand this, as they see stagnant wages and disappearing jobs.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009246

 

[Wry Catcher]

Yea your right Joe, go ahead to another subject

-Geaux

Um, no, you see, I wasn't discussing who had money.

I was discussing what their policies are.

POLICY.

Republicans- I've got mine, fuck you.

Democrats- I've got mine, but I'm going to make sure no one can take advantage of you because they have more power and money.

I'll make a deal with you Joe. You ask me nicely to delete the quote and I will do so. We all say some pretty outlandish things Joe, so I offer the option. If not, can it become a sig line quote? That's quite the declaration your making Joe.

I'll give you some time to think it over, OK?

-Geaux

But what about Mitt? Is Speaker Pelosi evil because she's a women or a Democrat? Is Mitt a great guy because he's a man and a Republican? What say you, unless you explain yourself - and I doubt that's possible - you have offered probative evidence you're a dishonest troll, a partisan hack and an all around jerk (of course I knew that before).

 

[Wry Catcher]

Ooops, I forgot ^^^ and an enormous hypocrite.

 

[Bush92]

This is a very interesting article, and even though it runs four pages, it's a great read.

A rich guy who actually gets it.

The Pitchforks Are Coming? For Us Plutocrats - Nick Hanauer - POLITICO Magazine

And so I have a message for my fellow filthy rich, for all of us who live in our gated bubble worlds: Wake up, people. It won’t last.

If we don’t do something to fix the glaring inequities in this economy, the pitchforks are going to come for us. No society can sustain this kind of rising inequality. In fact, there is no example in human history where wealth accumulated like this and the pitchforks didn’t eventually come out. You show me a highly unequal society, and I will show you a police state. Or an uprising. There are no counterexamples. None. It’s not if, it’s when.

Here’s what I say to you: You’re living in a dream world. What everyone wants to believe is that when things reach a tipping point and go from being merely crappy for the masses to dangerous and socially destabilizing, that we’re somehow going to know about that shift ahead of time. Any student of history knows that’s not the way it happens. Revolutions, like bankruptcies, come gradually, and then suddenly. One day, somebody sets himself on fire, then thousands of people are in the streets, and before you know it, the country is burning. And then there’s no time for us to get to the airport and jump on our Gulfstream Vs and fly to New Zealand. That’s the way it always happens. If inequality keeps rising as it has been, eventually it will happen. We will not be able to predict when, and it will be terrible—for everybody. But especially for us.

Pitchforks will never come. Democrats need a constant victim class so they will always strive to keep people down, and federal government strong enough to keep them there. Food Stamps, welfare = "Let them eat cake...but don't let them revolt." Certainly don't let the masses have guns. The political centrifuge of Democrat Party is located in the inner cities of America. So henceforth, according to Obama, Sharpton, and Marxist like Ayers..."Fuck everybody else."

 

[Geaux4it]

Um, no, you see, I wasn't discussing who had money.

I was discussing what their policies are.

POLICY.

Republicans- I've got mine, fuck you.

Democrats- I've got mine, but I'm going to make sure no one can take advantage of you because they have more power and money.

I'll make a deal with you Joe. You ask me nicely to delete the quote and I will do so. We all say some pretty outlandish things Joe, so I offer the option. If not, can it become a sig line quote? That's quite the declaration your making Joe.

I'll give you some time to think it over, OK?

-Geaux

But what about Mitt? Is Speaker Pelosi evil because she's a women or a Democrat? Is Mitt a great guy because he's a man and a Republican? What say you, unless you explain yourself - and I doubt that's possible - you have offered probative evidence you're a dishonest troll, a partisan hack and an all around jerk (of course I knew that before).

Mitt, Booooosh, LMAO. When you have no defense this is it

You can throw in the towel anytime.

Promise I will give it back for yours and others next fail

-Geaux

 

[Toro]

Um, no, you see, I wasn't discussing who had money.

I was discussing what their policies are.

POLICY.

Republicans- I've got mine, fuck you.

Democrats- I've got mine, but I'm going to make sure no one can take advantage of you because they have more power and money.

I'll make a deal with you Joe. You ask me nicely to delete the quote and I will do so. We all say some pretty outlandish things Joe, so I offer the option. If not, can it become a sig line quote? That's quite the declaration your making Joe.

I'll give you some time to think it over, OK?

-Geaux

What the fuck are you talking about? THat didn't even make sense in English.

Man, I can tell you are a Southerner. Only Southerners fight for the right to be abused by the rich and are happy about it.

Southerners, Mormons, financiers, Jews, black people. They're all the same.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I'll make a deal with you Joe. You ask me nicely to delete the quote and I will do so. We all say some pretty outlandish things Joe, so I offer the option. If not, can it become a sig line quote? That's quite the declaration your making Joe.

I'll give you some time to think it over, OK?

-Geaux

But what about Mitt? Is Speaker Pelosi evil because she's a women or a Democrat? Is Mitt a great guy because he's a man and a Republican? What say you, unless you explain yourself - and I doubt that's possible - you have offered probative evidence you're a dishonest troll, a partisan hack and an all around jerk (of course I knew that before).

Mitt, Booooosh, LMAO. When you have no defense this is it

You can throw in the towel anytime.

Promise I will give it back for yours and others next fail

-Geaux

Having no defense or the ability to offer anything of substance (like an apology) the misogynist hypocritical, dishonest troll and partisan hack defaults to the insipid cliche - "Boooosh".

When one knocks out the opponent the thrown towel is for the loser - you - to wash egg off your face. Do you try to be dumb, or does it come naturally?

 

[Mac1958]

.

Here's the paradox.

On one hand, it takes some serious mental gymnastics to avoid the fact that (a) income and wealth have, and continue to, get more and more out of any kind of balance, (b) as that momentum speeds up the imbalance will only get worse, (c) there are clear negative ramifications if it gets much worse. And I'm not talking morality, I'm talking about the economic foundation and stability of the country.

On the other hand, we also (a) have a government that has truly and richly deserved its low approval ratings, (b) is prone to knee-jerk decisions that over-shoot and ultimately makes things even worse, and (c) don't want to lose an equilibrium between effort and reward, for both individuals and businesses.

That doesn't even count those who go ape shit because someone else has more than they do. These are the people who so easily talk themselves into naive and ignorant notions like "you didn't build that" and "you didn't earn that".

This situation is a perfect example of the damage being caused by the zealots on both ends of the argument. This is going to require cooperation from both ends of the spectrum, and right now both ends are putting ideology before country.

The fixes really wouldn't be that complicated.

.

Let's hear them?

The first thing to understand is the difference between the natural person and the fictitious person called a corporation. They differ in the purpose for which they are created, in the strength which they possess, and in the restraints under which they act. Man is the handiwork of God and was placed upon earth to carry out a Divine purpose; the corporation is the handiwork of man and created to carry out a money-making policy. There is comparatively little difference in the strength of men; a corporation may be one hundred, one thousand, or even one million times stronger than the average man. Man acts under the restraints of conscience, and is influenced also by a belief in a future life. A corporation has no soul and cares nothing about the hereafter.
—William Jennings Bryan, 1912 Ohio Constitutional Convention

Sure. I'm not going to go into detail, because I've learned that's nearly always an abject waste of time. And, just for the record Mr. Bryan's lesson on corporations is essentially irrelevant to me -- I'm in the finance field and neck deep in both corporate and personal finance 24/7/365. A quote from 102 years ago has general value and is quaint, but revises my opinions in a modern global economy in no way.

Again, not going into detail:

Reduce corporate tax rates to 10% with a 5% minimum, unleashing not only a flood of repatriated capital but also a flood of new international capital.

Add two new marginal tax rates above where they end now, at 44.9% and 49.9%, with minimum effective tax rates along the spectrum of the margins, which we do not have now.

Change the nature of unions before they become extinct by keeping their ability to negotiate pay levels and safety issues, but not keeping their ability to cripple businesses in the future by controlling future unearned income such as pensions. Move away from defined benefit plans (pensions) and toward defined contribution plans (401Ks). Show the American people that the job protections that protect jobs at the expense of quality and business efficiency are no longer part of the mix.

Take a massive financial monkey off the backs of American business by switching to a national health care system similar to the current Medicare/Medicare Supplement system that combines universal preventive and diagnostic care with the best of the free market, aka competition and innovation. That would should piss off both "sides".

Somehow convince the American Left to reverse its current and terribly destructive "you didn't build that, you didn't earn that" routine into something that is based on personal motivation, personal responsibility and the value of effort & sacrifice. Somehow convince the American Right to not simplistically kneejerk against all taxation, against unions, for everything related to business, and simplistically kneejerking in general.

Now, I'll guess that you'll agree with some of those ideas and disagree with others along partisan lines. And this is why I think we may never fix our problems, even though they are eminently fixable: Partisan ideologues are not willing to give an inch, and they're killing us.

.

 

[Bfgrn]

.

Here's the paradox.

On one hand, it takes some serious mental gymnastics to avoid the fact that (a) income and wealth have, and continue to, get more and more out of any kind of balance, (b) as that momentum speeds up the imbalance will only get worse, (c) there are clear negative ramifications if it gets much worse. And I'm not talking morality, I'm talking about the economic foundation and stability of the country.

On the other hand, we also (a) have a government that has truly and richly deserved its low approval ratings, (b) is prone to knee-jerk decisions that over-shoot and ultimately makes things even worse, and (c) don't want to lose an equilibrium between effort and reward, for both individuals and businesses.

That doesn't even count those who go ape shit because someone else has more than they do. These are the people who so easily talk themselves into naive and ignorant notions like "you didn't build that" and "you didn't earn that".

This situation is a perfect example of the damage being caused by the zealots on both ends of the argument. This is going to require cooperation from both ends of the spectrum, and right now both ends are putting ideology before country.

The fixes really wouldn't be that complicated.

.

Let's hear them?

The first thing to understand is the difference between the natural person and the fictitious person called a corporation. They differ in the purpose for which they are created, in the strength which they possess, and in the restraints under which they act. Man is the handiwork of God and was placed upon earth to carry out a Divine purpose; the corporation is the handiwork of man and created to carry out a money-making policy. There is comparatively little difference in the strength of men; a corporation may be one hundred, one thousand, or even one million times stronger than the average man. Man acts under the restraints of conscience, and is influenced also by a belief in a future life. A corporation has no soul and cares nothing about the hereafter.
—William Jennings Bryan, 1912 Ohio Constitutional Convention

Sure. I'm not going to go into detail, because I've learned that's nearly always an abject waste of time. And, just for the record Mr. Bryan's lesson on corporations is essentially irrelevant to me -- I'm in the finance field and neck deep in both corporate and personal finance 24/7/365. A quote from 102 years ago has general value and is quaint, but revises my opinions in a modern global economy in no way.

Again, not going into detail:

Reduce corporate tax rates to 10% with a 5% minimum, unleashing not only a flood of repatriated capital but also a flood of new international capital.

Add two new marginal tax rates above where they end now, at 44.9% and 49.9%, with minimum effective tax rates along the spectrum of the margins, which we do not have now.

Change the nature of unions before they become extinct by keeping their ability to negotiate pay levels and safety issues, but not keeping their ability to cripple businesses in the future by controlling future unearned income such as pensions. Move away from defined benefit plans (pensions) and toward defined contribution plans (401Ks). Show the American people that the job protections that protect jobs at the expense of quality and business efficiency are no longer part of the mix.

Take a massive financial monkey off the backs of American business by switching to a national health care system similar to the current Medicare/Medicare Supplement system that combines universal preventive and diagnostic care with the best of the free market, aka competition and innovation. That would should piss off both "sides".

Somehow convince the American Left to reverse its current and terribly destructive "you didn't build that, you didn't earn that" routine into something that is based on personal motivation, personal responsibility and the value of effort & sacrifice. Somehow convince the American Right to not simplistically kneejerk against all taxation, against unions, for everything related to business, and simplistically kneejerking in general.

Now, I'll guess that you'll agree with some of those ideas and disagree with others along partisan lines. And this is why I think we may never fix our problems, even though they are eminently fixable: Partisan ideologues are not willing to give an inch, and they're killing us.

.

I agree with most of what you have proposed. I would qualify reducing corporate tax rates based on how many domestic jobs the company creates.

I find it hard to understand why the business community has fought so hard against universal health care. And why folks on the right can't see that employers don't pay for your health insurance...YOU do. If we had universal health care EVERYONE could get a raise.

As far as the "you didn't build that, you didn't earn that", I see that you have taken the hyper-partisan approach. Taking what Obama said out of context and adding your own meaning to what he said.

What William Jennings Bryan said in 1912 is as relevant today as it was 102 years ago. Maybe more so...We have become burdened with a government owned by monied interests. A corporatocracy is the very LAST thing out founding fathers envisioned.

The selfish spirit of commerce knows no country, and feels no passion or principle but that of gain.
Thomas Jefferson - Letter to Larkin Smith (1809)

 

[Mac1958]

Let's hear them?

The first thing to understand is the difference between the natural person and the fictitious person called a corporation. They differ in the purpose for which they are created, in the strength which they possess, and in the restraints under which they act. Man is the handiwork of God and was placed upon earth to carry out a Divine purpose; the corporation is the handiwork of man and created to carry out a money-making policy. There is comparatively little difference in the strength of men; a corporation may be one hundred, one thousand, or even one million times stronger than the average man. Man acts under the restraints of conscience, and is influenced also by a belief in a future life. A corporation has no soul and cares nothing about the hereafter.
—William Jennings Bryan, 1912 Ohio Constitutional Convention

Sure. I'm not going to go into detail, because I've learned that's nearly always an abject waste of time. And, just for the record Mr. Bryan's lesson on corporations is essentially irrelevant to me -- I'm in the finance field and neck deep in both corporate and personal finance 24/7/365. A quote from 102 years ago has general value and is quaint, but revises my opinions in a modern global economy in no way.

Again, not going into detail:

Reduce corporate tax rates to 10% with a 5% minimum, unleashing not only a flood of repatriated capital but also a flood of new international capital.

Add two new marginal tax rates above where they end now, at 44.9% and 49.9%, with minimum effective tax rates along the spectrum of the margins, which we do not have now.

Change the nature of unions before they become extinct by keeping their ability to negotiate pay levels and safety issues, but not keeping their ability to cripple businesses in the future by controlling future unearned income such as pensions. Move away from defined benefit plans (pensions) and toward defined contribution plans (401Ks). Show the American people that the job protections that protect jobs at the expense of quality and business efficiency are no longer part of the mix.

Take a massive financial monkey off the backs of American business by switching to a national health care system similar to the current Medicare/Medicare Supplement system that combines universal preventive and diagnostic care with the best of the free market, aka competition and innovation. That would should piss off both "sides".

Somehow convince the American Left to reverse its current and terribly destructive "you didn't build that, you didn't earn that" routine into something that is based on personal motivation, personal responsibility and the value of effort & sacrifice. Somehow convince the American Right to not simplistically kneejerk against all taxation, against unions, for everything related to business, and simplistically kneejerking in general.

Now, I'll guess that you'll agree with some of those ideas and disagree with others along partisan lines. And this is why I think we may never fix our problems, even though they are eminently fixable: Partisan ideologues are not willing to give an inch, and they're killing us.

.

I agree with most of what you have proposed. I would qualify reducing corporate tax rates based on how many domestic jobs the company creates.

I find it hard to understand why the business community has fought so hard against universal health care. And why folks on the right can't see that employers don't pay for your health insurance...YOU do. If we had universal health care EVERYONE could get a raise.

As far as the "you didn't build that, you didn't earn that", I see that you have taken the hyper-partisan approach. Taking what Obama said out of context and adding your own meaning to what he said.

What William Jennings Bryan said in 1912 is as relevant today as it was 102 years ago. Maybe more so...We have become burdened with a government owned by monied interests. A corporatocracy is the very LAST thing out founding fathers envisioned.

The selfish spirit of commerce knows no country, and feels no passion or principle but that of gain.
Thomas Jefferson - Letter to Larkin Smith (1809)

Obama said what he said, and I'm taking it in context. He also mocked business owners in that same speech when he said how amused he is when he hears business owners say how hard they worked to get where they are. Obama has virtually no understanding of the psychology of business economics, but who can blame him? He knows nothing of what it takes, nor do the people around him. Only people who don't know what it takes could defend what he said. Not to mention all the anti-business and anti-success rhetoric that comes from the Left. Constantly.

I agree that corporations are not people, and that they have far too much influence in politics. "Influence" doesn't even describe it, and that's why I support a Balanced Budget Amendment, publicly-funded elections and term limits. Bye-bye to that influence, overnight.

The business community would embrace the right kind of health care reform. All the ACA did was make it even more complicated and red tape-heavy for them. But again, this issue does not register with this administration.

.

 

[initforme]

Putting more money into the middle class will result in increased personal spending as those people are the ones that put the money back into the economy. So if you are going to lower corporate rates, then you also lower middle class tax rates.... big time. Of course those with a lot of money would like to see the middle class rates go up... and there are politicians out there that also believe this.

 

[Bfgrn]

Sure. I'm not going to go into detail, because I've learned that's nearly always an abject waste of time. And, just for the record Mr. Bryan's lesson on corporations is essentially irrelevant to me -- I'm in the finance field and neck deep in both corporate and personal finance 24/7/365. A quote from 102 years ago has general value and is quaint, but revises my opinions in a modern global economy in no way.

Again, not going into detail:

Reduce corporate tax rates to 10% with a 5% minimum, unleashing not only a flood of repatriated capital but also a flood of new international capital.

Add two new marginal tax rates above where they end now, at 44.9% and 49.9%, with minimum effective tax rates along the spectrum of the margins, which we do not have now.

Change the nature of unions before they become extinct by keeping their ability to negotiate pay levels and safety issues, but not keeping their ability to cripple businesses in the future by controlling future unearned income such as pensions. Move away from defined benefit plans (pensions) and toward defined contribution plans (401Ks). Show the American people that the job protections that protect jobs at the expense of quality and business efficiency are no longer part of the mix.

Take a massive financial monkey off the backs of American business by switching to a national health care system similar to the current Medicare/Medicare Supplement system that combines universal preventive and diagnostic care with the best of the free market, aka competition and innovation. That would should piss off both "sides".

Somehow convince the American Left to reverse its current and terribly destructive "you didn't build that, you didn't earn that" routine into something that is based on personal motivation, personal responsibility and the value of effort & sacrifice. Somehow convince the American Right to not simplistically kneejerk against all taxation, against unions, for everything related to business, and simplistically kneejerking in general.

Now, I'll guess that you'll agree with some of those ideas and disagree with others along partisan lines. And this is why I think we may never fix our problems, even though they are eminently fixable: Partisan ideologues are not willing to give an inch, and they're killing us.

.

I agree with most of what you have proposed. I would qualify reducing corporate tax rates based on how many domestic jobs the company creates.

I find it hard to understand why the business community has fought so hard against universal health care. And why folks on the right can't see that employers don't pay for your health insurance...YOU do. If we had universal health care EVERYONE could get a raise.

As far as the "you didn't build that, you didn't earn that", I see that you have taken the hyper-partisan approach. Taking what Obama said out of context and adding your own meaning to what he said.

What William Jennings Bryan said in 1912 is as relevant today as it was 102 years ago. Maybe more so...We have become burdened with a government owned by monied interests. A corporatocracy is the very LAST thing out founding fathers envisioned.

The selfish spirit of commerce knows no country, and feels no passion or principle but that of gain.
Thomas Jefferson - Letter to Larkin Smith (1809)

Obama said what he said, and I'm taking it in context. He also mocked business owners in that same speech when he said how amused he is when he hears business owners say how hard they worked to get where they are. Obama has virtually no understanding of the psychology of business economics, but who can blame him? He knows nothing of what it takes, nor do the people around him. Only people who don't know what it takes could defend what he said. Not to mention all the anti-business and anti-success rhetoric that comes from the Left. Constantly.

I agree that corporations are not people, and that they have far too much influence in politics. "Influence" doesn't even describe it, and that's why I support a Balanced Budget Amendment, publicly-funded elections and term limits. Bye-bye to that influence, overnight.

The business community would embrace the right kind of health care reform. All the ACA did was make it even more complicated and red tape-heavy for them. But again, this issue does not register with this administration.

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Now I know why you never say anything. You would reveal your hyper-partisanship. Stuff the stereotyping of Democrats and business. We has a MBA in the White House for 8 years and he was the biggest disaster in history. ZERO job growth for the 2000's and the second worse collapse of our economy in history.

I hope Obama was pushing back against the most insidious movement in America; the right's fawning over Ayn Rand, a mentally ill woman whose 'superman' was a psychopathic murderer.

I totally agree with what Obama said. None of us do it alone. When you listen to what he said in FULL contest, it is no different from what Romney said in 2002.

Here’s what he said:

Obama, July 13: There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. (Applause.)

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President — because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.


Obama’s comments were not entirely new. The president frequently speaks about the role of government in a free-market society, as he did in his 2011 State of the Union address:

Obama, Jan. 25, 2011: Our free enterprise system is what drives innovation. But because it’s not always profitable for companies to invest in basic research, throughout our history, our government has provided cutting-edge scientists and inventors with the support that they need. That’s what planted the seeds for the Internet. That’s what helped make possible things like computer chips and GPS. Just think of all the good jobs — from manufacturing to retail — that have come from these breakthroughs.


Romney's comments in 2002 to Olympic athletes.

"You Olympians, however, know you didn't get here solely on your own power," Romney said after congratulating the athletes. "For most of you, loving parents, sisters or brothers, encouraged your hopes, coaches guided, communities built venues in order to organize competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them."

 

[Mac1958]

Now I know why you never say anything. You would reveal your hyper-partisanship. Stuff the stereotyping of Democrats and business.

First of all - and here we go again, this is tedious - I wonder how I can be a hyper-partisan when I disagree with the GOP on war, foreign policy, abortion, personal income taxation, gay rights, health care, and more. And get this -- there are some issues on which I disagree with BOTH parties. Holy CRAP, is THAT even POSSIBLE? You, on the other hand (at least in my experience), are a good, predictable and obedient partisan soldier. Perhaps we have different definitions of "hyper-partisan" - what is yours?

Second, I'm more than happy to provide my opinion on anything. Unfortunately, my opinions don't conveniently and predictably fall along partisan lines as yours do, so someone like you might have to focus. I get that all the time here, it's like partisan ideologues short-circuit if an opinion isn't simple enough. Start a thread on anything, "mention" me, and I'll be there, you bet. Will you do that?

And finally and mercifully back to the point: We are not going to agree on what Obama says and does because (a) as a Democrat partisan you're most likely going to defend him no matter what, and (b) we have vastly differing backgrounds, experience, and expertise on business, business economics and business psychology. Since I live it every day, and since I know your mind is not going to change, I don't see a need to burn more effort. It's like me going into the Automotive forum and telling people how to re-build a transmission when I haven't a clue.

I hope that clarifies.

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[editec]

Let us acknowledge two facts, shall we?

1. NOT ALL the wealthy are guilty. In fact, only a handful of them were NOT victims of the Kleptocrats right along with the rest of America.

2. Not all the middle class are innocent...no tyrant ever had trouble recruiting minions.

 

[JoeB131]

Let us acknowledge two facts, shall we?

1. NOT ALL the wealthy are guilty. In fact, only a handful of them were NOT victims of the Kleptocrats right along with the rest of America.

2. Not all the middle class are innocent...no tyrant ever had trouble recruiting minions.

I don't think they were "guilty', but they did go along with it and the aftermath. There hasn't been a moment where these wealthy said, "Hey, this country that has given me so much is hurting, I need to step up to the plate and make it right because I have the power to do so." Instead, most of them said, 'Hey, how can I take advantage? How many employees can I cut because the ones who are left will work that much harder because they are scared? How much can I bully the government into bailing me out?"

And not surprisingly, 93% of the wealth regained in this "recovery" have gone to the 1%. No wonder most people ask "What Recovery".

As for the middle class. Yup, we all made mistakes. I voted for Republicans because I thought Bill Clinton was a sleaze. And while not 'tyrants", they did a very good job of distracting a lot of us from what they were doing.

And here was the thing. I look back at the last 30 years. I went to college, I served my country in the Army, I worked a lot of jobs after that, some of them truly thankless. I paid my mortgage and my bills and did all the "right" things, and I still got screwed over pretty royally.

So I'm not going to get all weepy because some rich person thinks he's being "vilified".

 

[Bfgrn]

Now I know why you never say anything. You would reveal your hyper-partisanship. Stuff the stereotyping of Democrats and business.

First of all - and here we go again, this is tedious - I wonder how I can be a hyper-partisan when I disagree with the GOP on war, foreign policy, abortion, personal income taxation, gay rights, health care, and more. And get this -- there are some issues on which I disagree with BOTH parties. Holy CRAP, is THAT even POSSIBLE? You, on the other hand (at least in my experience), are a good, predictable and obedient partisan soldier. Perhaps we have different definitions of "hyper-partisan" - what is yours?

Second, I'm more than happy to provide my opinion on anything. Unfortunately, my opinions don't conveniently and predictably fall along partisan lines as yours do, so someone like you might have to focus. I get that all the time here, it's like partisan ideologues short-circuit if an opinion isn't simple enough. Start a thread on anything, "mention" me, and I'll be there, you bet. Will you do that?

And finally and mercifully back to the point: We are not going to agree on what Obama says and does because (a) as a Democrat partisan you're most likely going to defend him no matter what, and (b) we have vastly differing backgrounds, experience, and expertise on business, business economics and business psychology. Since I live it every day, and since I know your mind is not going to change, I don't see a need to burn more effort. It's like me going into the Automotive forum and telling people how to re-build a transmission when I haven't a clue.

I hope that clarifies.

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So tell me oh great one, what have I done for a living? You must know based on your vast wisdom. And while you're at it, correct me and President Obama. Show us where we are wrong. I am sure your vast knowledge of the 'business world' can produce numerous examples of businessmen who built their own facilities, designed and constructed the roads to get to their facilities and distribute their goods, ran millions of miles of cable to connect to the internet and advertize their goods and services.

I await in humble repose...