The Politics of the "Abortion" Word Games

[Bfgrn]

What part of "All persons born" do you need help with? Is there an adult in the room that can help you decipher those big words?

What date is the cutoff for the parts of the Bill of Rights we get to ignore?

You're the one who needs help, apparently. It does not say "Only persons born" does it? If I say "all Fords are crappy cars" it does not mean that Chevy's can't be crappy cars.

"All persons born" certainly do have Constitutional rights, I have not denied that or argued against it in any way. Persons "in utero" (or not yet born) also have some Constitutional rights by law. Earlier I cited the Unborn Victims of Violence Act which recognizes a child in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb".

Roe v. Wade made it very clear that until a fertilized egg reaches 'viability', it has no Constitutional rights. That is the law of the land. You don't have to like it, but you do have to abide by it. It is that simple.

Well sorry moron, I hate that we're not having the debate you want to have. I've not argued that abortion is unconstitutional or illegal. The fact that SCOTUS ruled on "viability" of something is evidence that 'something' does exist. If it didn't exist you could hardly determine viability or non-viability. So we know the human life exists and the SCOTUS admits this when it considers "viability" of said life.

I never said I had to like the law or didn't have to abide by it. I do have the right to petition for redress and change the law to something I like better. Why the hell do lefties turn into Benito Mussolini when "law of the land" is in their favor and into Che Guevara when it's not?

You right wing authoritarians are the "Mussolinis" of this world. I don't believe a single word you say about caring about an egg. None of you give a rats ass about a fertilized egg. You folks show no regard for the crawling and the walking, why should anyone believe you suddenly care about what happens to your "child in utero"...

The "law of the land" was decided 7-2 by a conservative leaning Supreme Court. The motivation for the ruling was to protect doctors from litigation. At the time of the ruling the group that supported abortion the most were Republicans (68%).

What changed? The far right wing "christians" turned it into a political weapon after the Carter administration tried to take away the tax exempt status of Robert Jones University because of their racist policies. Jerry "Benito" Falwell never uttered a word about 'abortion' until 1979.

The very same right wingers who "weep for eggs" oppose the Equal Rights Amendment. They are not about "eggs" they are about keeping women subservient to men.

If you right wing authoritarians are ever able to overturn Roe v. Wade, then YOU will own the consequences of having a woman's uterus property of the state. YOU will be on the hook for paying $30,000- $50,000 for the cost of having YOUR baby. And if the women loses her job or becomes debilitated due to complications, you will be on the hook for a LOT more.

This is not about "abortion", this is about politics, control, and keeping women as "vessels"

 

[Boss]

As for what I was interested in, the ectopic pregnancy. That is not life nor will it ever be life. The only thing that will happen is the woman will die if it's not aborted.

Why will the woman die?

 

[Boss]

If your avatar is an indication, you can't even become pregnant so I really don't see where you get any right to tell anyone when life starts or when they can have an abortion.

Well I get the right to tell you whatever I please because we live in America, land of the free. I have the right to tell you that science and biology are unambiguous about when life begins. It doesn't matter if you reject science or want it to be a different way, biology says life begins at conception. And finally, I certainly have just as much right as you to shape political policies on issues such as abortion and when they are allowed.

 

[Boss]

What part of "All persons born" do you need help with? Is there an adult in the room that can help you decipher those big words?

What date is the cutoff for the parts of the Bill of Rights we get to ignore?

You're the one who needs help, apparently. It does not say "Only persons born" does it? If I say "all Fords are crappy cars" it does not mean that Chevy's can't be crappy cars.

"All persons born" certainly do have Constitutional rights, I have not denied that or argued against it in any way. Persons "in utero" (or not yet born) also have some Constitutional rights by law. Earlier I cited the Unborn Victims of Violence Act which recognizes a child in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb".

Roe v. Wade made it very clear that until a fertilized egg reaches 'viability', it has no Constitutional rights. That is the law of the land. You don't have to like it, but you do have to abide by it. It is that simple.

Well sorry moron, I hate that we're not having the debate you want to have. I've not argued that abortion is unconstitutional or illegal. The fact that SCOTUS ruled on "viability" of something is evidence that 'something' does exist. If it didn't exist you could hardly determine viability or non-viability. So we know the human life exists and the SCOTUS admits this when it considers "viability" of said life.

I never said I had to like the law or didn't have to abide by it. I do have the right to petition for redress and change the law to something I like better. Why the hell do lefties turn into Benito Mussolini when "law of the land" is in their favor and into Che Guevara when it's not?

You right wing authoritarians are the "Mussolinis" of this world. I don't believe a single word you say about caring about an egg. None of you give a rats ass about a fertilized egg. You folks show no regard for the crawling and the walking, why should anyone believe you suddenly care about what happens to your "child in utero"...

The "law of the land" was decided 7-2 by a conservative leaning Supreme Court. The motivation for the ruling was to protect doctors from litigation. At the time of the ruling the group that supported abortion the most were Republicans (68%).

What changed? The far right wing "christians" turned it into a political weapon after the Carter administration tried to take away the tax exempt status of Robert Jones University because of their racist policies. Jerry "Benito" Falwell never uttered a word about 'abortion' until 1979.

The very same right wingers who "weep for eggs" oppose the Equal Rights Amendment. They are not about "eggs" they are about keeping women subservient to men.

If you right wing authoritarians are ever able to overturn Roe v. Wade, then YOU will own the consequences of having a woman's uterus property of the state. YOU will be on the hook for paying $30,000- $50,000 for the cost of having YOUR baby. And if the women loses her job or becomes debilitated due to complications, you will be on the hook for a LOT more.

This is not about "abortion", this is about politics, control, and keeping women as "vessels"

And again with the spewing hatred for Conservatives and Christians without any real substance for your argument other than politics. That's really sad and pathetic, you are a sad a pathetic person.

If you right wing authoritarians are ever able to overturn Roe v. Wade, then YOU will own the consequences of having a woman's uterus property of the state. YOU will be on the hook for paying $30,000- $50,000 for the cost of having YOUR baby. And if the women loses her job or becomes debilitated due to complications, you will be on the hook for a LOT more.

What a sick and depraved individual. Here you define your motivation for allowing people to kill their unborn babies because it's too much of a financial burden. Just how low does your regard for human life go?

 

[JoeB131]

Uh, Darwin was opposed to Slavery

Doesn't matter. It doesn't change what I stated in the least. His work was used by pro-slavery advocates and in arguments before the SCOTUS regarding "rights" for slaves.

Origin of the Species, which really doesn't talk about human evolution that much, wasn't published until 1859. The Descent of Man which did contain some of Darwin's more questionable speculation about race, wasn't published until 1871.

To put in in perspective, slavery ended in the US in 1865 and in Brazil in 1872. So Darwin made such a compelling argument for slavery that they almost immediately ended it? This is your argument?

Hey, you know what book that was readily available DID make a compelling argument for Slavery?

The Bible.

 

[JoeB131]

Well "the law" is an inanimate object, it can't prosecute anything. District Attorneys prosecute, but they have to represent someone. The unborn infant is dead, it can't seek remedy under the law. So how would any prosecution happen? Habeas Corpus. Hence, no prosecutions.

Guy, you are dancing around the issue. If abortion is murder, why didn't prosecutors ever charge someone like Ruth Barnett, who performed 40,000 of them, with murder or even manslaughter. In fact, Barnett operated pretty much out in the open for decades, she had a fancy office, and she made millions. Now, they did prosecute her for other things, like income tax evasion and manslaughter when one of her adult patients died.

I didn't say I want to make abortion illegal. I want to make abortion rare... strictly counseled and regulated. I believe there are instances where abortions are justifiable options... I don't personally believe in them, I would find another alternative, but I can accept that some people might legitimately have the right to that option. And you enforce it the way you enforce the thousands of other laws regarding ethics of health care.

No one is making you have an abortion, not that there's ever a chance you could get laid to start with.

Frankly, making women take 'counselling' or shoving a wand up their hoo-haa in order to show them a vague image of a fetus is bullshit. You religious idiots need to mind your own fucking business.

 

[Bfgrn]

What part of "All persons born" do you need help with? Is there an adult in the room that can help you decipher those big words?

What date is the cutoff for the parts of the Bill of Rights we get to ignore?

You're the one who needs help, apparently. It does not say "Only persons born" does it? If I say "all Fords are crappy cars" it does not mean that Chevy's can't be crappy cars.

"All persons born" certainly do have Constitutional rights, I have not denied that or argued against it in any way. Persons "in utero" (or not yet born) also have some Constitutional rights by law. Earlier I cited the Unborn Victims of Violence Act which recognizes a child in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb".

Roe v. Wade made it very clear that until a fertilized egg reaches 'viability', it has no Constitutional rights. That is the law of the land. You don't have to like it, but you do have to abide by it. It is that simple.

Well sorry moron, I hate that we're not having the debate you want to have. I've not argued that abortion is unconstitutional or illegal. The fact that SCOTUS ruled on "viability" of something is evidence that 'something' does exist. If it didn't exist you could hardly determine viability or non-viability. So we know the human life exists and the SCOTUS admits this when it considers "viability" of said life.

I never said I had to like the law or didn't have to abide by it. I do have the right to petition for redress and change the law to something I like better. Why the hell do lefties turn into Benito Mussolini when "law of the land" is in their favor and into Che Guevara when it's not?

You right wing authoritarians are the "Mussolinis" of this world. I don't believe a single word you say about caring about an egg. None of you give a rats ass about a fertilized egg. You folks show no regard for the crawling and the walking, why should anyone believe you suddenly care about what happens to your "child in utero"...

The "law of the land" was decided 7-2 by a conservative leaning Supreme Court. The motivation for the ruling was to protect doctors from litigation. At the time of the ruling the group that supported abortion the most were Republicans (68%).

What changed? The far right wing "christians" turned it into a political weapon after the Carter administration tried to take away the tax exempt status of Robert Jones University because of their racist policies. Jerry "Benito" Falwell never uttered a word about 'abortion' until 1979.

The very same right wingers who "weep for eggs" oppose the Equal Rights Amendment. They are not about "eggs" they are about keeping women subservient to men.

If you right wing authoritarians are ever able to overturn Roe v. Wade, then YOU will own the consequences of having a woman's uterus property of the state. YOU will be on the hook for paying $30,000- $50,000 for the cost of having YOUR baby. And if the women loses her job or becomes debilitated due to complications, you will be on the hook for a LOT more.

This is not about "abortion", this is about politics, control, and keeping women as "vessels"

And again with the spewing hatred for Conservatives and Christians without any real substance for your argument other than politics. That's really sad and pathetic, you are a sad a pathetic person.

If you right wing authoritarians are ever able to overturn Roe v. Wade, then YOU will own the consequences of having a woman's uterus property of the state. YOU will be on the hook for paying $30,000- $50,000 for the cost of having YOUR baby. And if the women loses her job or becomes debilitated due to complications, you will be on the hook for a LOT more.

What a sick and depraved individual. Here you define your motivation for allowing people to kill their unborn babies because it's too much of a financial burden. Just how low does your regard for human life go?

There is plenty of 'substance'...

Anti-Choice Violence and Intimidation

A campaign of violence, vandalism, and intimidation is endangering providers and patients and curtailing the availability of abortion services. Since 1993, eight clinic workers – including four doctors, two clinic employees, a clinic escort, and a security guard – have been murdered in the United States. Seventeen attempted murders have also occurred since 1991. In fact, opponents of choice have directed more than 6,400 reported acts of violence against abortion providers since 1977, including bombings, arsons, death threats, kidnappings, and assaults, as well as more than 175,000 reported acts of disruption, including bomb threats and harassing calls.

 

[Boss]

Uh, Darwin was opposed to Slavery

Doesn't matter. It doesn't change what I stated in the least. His work was used by pro-slavery advocates and in arguments before the SCOTUS regarding "rights" for slaves.

Origin of the Species, which really doesn't talk about human evolution that much, wasn't published until 1859. The Descent of Man which did contain some of Darwin's more questionable speculation about race, wasn't published until 1871.

To put in in perspective, slavery ended in the US in 1865 and in Brazil in 1872. So Darwin made such a compelling argument for slavery that they almost immediately ended it? This is your argument?

Hey, you know what book that was readily available DID make a compelling argument for Slavery?

The Bible.

I guess you have reading comprehension problems... For the second time, I did not say Darwin made the argument. People used Darwin's work to make their argument. Just as people have used the Bible to make their arguments or SCOTUS rulings to make their arguments.

The abolition movement was started by Quaker ministers. To suggest religion had something to do with prolonging slavery is a display of ignorance on a level fitting that of a moron who thinks Origin of the Species wasn't about evolution. It's not surprising you don't recognize the fetus as a living human organism, you're just not very bright.

 

[Boss]

Well "the law" is an inanimate object, it can't prosecute anything. District Attorneys prosecute, but they have to represent someone. The unborn infant is dead, it can't seek remedy under the law. So how would any prosecution happen? Habeas Corpus. Hence, no prosecutions.

Guy, you are dancing around the issue. If abortion is murder, why didn't prosecutors ever charge someone like Ruth Barnett, who performed 40,000 of them, with murder or even manslaughter. In fact, Barnett operated pretty much out in the open for decades, she had a fancy office, and she made millions. Now, they did prosecute her for other things, like income tax evasion and manslaughter when one of her adult patients died.

I've never stated that abortion is murder.

I didn't say I want to make abortion illegal. I want to make abortion rare... strictly counseled and regulated. I believe there are instances where abortions are justifiable options... I don't personally believe in them, I would find another alternative, but I can accept that some people might legitimately have the right to that option. And you enforce it the way you enforce the thousands of other laws regarding ethics of health care.

No one is making you have an abortion, not that there's ever a chance you could get laid to start with.

Frankly, making women take 'counselling' or shoving a wand up their hoo-haa in order to show them a vague image of a fetus is bullshit. You religious idiots need to mind your own fucking business.

No one is making me shoot cops either but I have sense enough to know that should be illegal. Frankly, I don't give a fuck what you think, I will not mind my own business while we continue to suck a million lives per year down a tube for vanity and convenience. You don't get to tell me to shut up, you see, that's Russia or China where people don't have the freedom to speak out.

I mentioned counseling because I am concerned for women who might be cajoled into having an abortion then suffer the rest of their life over the guilt. None of you seem to give a shit about those women, even going to the extreme of denying they exist. They do exist, I have known three such women personally. I didn't mention wands up the hoo-haa but if that might make a woman reconsider aborting her baby, I am in favor of it.

 

[Boss]

You're the one who needs help, apparently. It does not say "Only persons born" does it? If I say "all Fords are crappy cars" it does not mean that Chevy's can't be crappy cars.

"All persons born" certainly do have Constitutional rights, I have not denied that or argued against it in any way. Persons "in utero" (or not yet born) also have some Constitutional rights by law. Earlier I cited the Unborn Victims of Violence Act which recognizes a child in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb".

Roe v. Wade made it very clear that until a fertilized egg reaches 'viability', it has no Constitutional rights. That is the law of the land. You don't have to like it, but you do have to abide by it. It is that simple.

Well sorry moron, I hate that we're not having the debate you want to have. I've not argued that abortion is unconstitutional or illegal. The fact that SCOTUS ruled on "viability" of something is evidence that 'something' does exist. If it didn't exist you could hardly determine viability or non-viability. So we know the human life exists and the SCOTUS admits this when it considers "viability" of said life.

I never said I had to like the law or didn't have to abide by it. I do have the right to petition for redress and change the law to something I like better. Why the hell do lefties turn into Benito Mussolini when "law of the land" is in their favor and into Che Guevara when it's not?

You right wing authoritarians are the "Mussolinis" of this world. I don't believe a single word you say about caring about an egg. None of you give a rats ass about a fertilized egg. You folks show no regard for the crawling and the walking, why should anyone believe you suddenly care about what happens to your "child in utero"...

The "law of the land" was decided 7-2 by a conservative leaning Supreme Court. The motivation for the ruling was to protect doctors from litigation. At the time of the ruling the group that supported abortion the most were Republicans (68%).

What changed? The far right wing "christians" turned it into a political weapon after the Carter administration tried to take away the tax exempt status of Robert Jones University because of their racist policies. Jerry "Benito" Falwell never uttered a word about 'abortion' until 1979.

The very same right wingers who "weep for eggs" oppose the Equal Rights Amendment. They are not about "eggs" they are about keeping women subservient to men.

If you right wing authoritarians are ever able to overturn Roe v. Wade, then YOU will own the consequences of having a woman's uterus property of the state. YOU will be on the hook for paying $30,000- $50,000 for the cost of having YOUR baby. And if the women loses her job or becomes debilitated due to complications, you will be on the hook for a LOT more.

This is not about "abortion", this is about politics, control, and keeping women as "vessels"

And again with the spewing hatred for Conservatives and Christians without any real substance for your argument other than politics. That's really sad and pathetic, you are a sad a pathetic person.

If you right wing authoritarians are ever able to overturn Roe v. Wade, then YOU will own the consequences of having a woman's uterus property of the state. YOU will be on the hook for paying $30,000- $50,000 for the cost of having YOUR baby. And if the women loses her job or becomes debilitated due to complications, you will be on the hook for a LOT more.

What a sick and depraved individual. Here you define your motivation for allowing people to kill their unborn babies because it's too much of a financial burden. Just how low does your regard for human life go?

There is plenty of 'substance'...

Anti-Choice Violence and Intimidation

A campaign of violence, vandalism, and intimidation is endangering providers and patients and curtailing the availability of abortion services. Since 1993, eight clinic workers – including four doctors, two clinic employees, a clinic escort, and a security guard – have been murdered in the United States. Seventeen attempted murders have also occurred since 1991. In fact, opponents of choice have directed more than 6,400 reported acts of violence against abortion providers since 1977, including bombings, arsons, death threats, kidnappings, and assaults, as well as more than 175,000 reported acts of disruption, including bomb threats and harassing calls.

Lord what a moron. Trying to have a conversation with you is like a fucking Abbott and Costello routine. You jump from one inane point to another making no sense whatsoever in the process. Whenever you are challenged, just toss out another red herring or erect another straw man!

I suppose with this latest nugget, we're supposed to abandon the pro-life movement and disregard the 45 million people who never had a voice to defend themselves, all because some abortion clinic workers have been "martyred" for your cause? ...'Fraid not!

 

[Derideo_Te]

You jump from one inane point to another making no sense whatsoever in the process. Whenever you are challenged, just toss out another red herring or erect another straw man!

Ironic!

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

BOSS SAID:

“I didn't say I want to make abortion illegal. I want to make abortion rare... strictly counseled and regulated.”

And by seeking to do so manifest an undue – and un-Constitutional – burden on a woman's protected liberty to decide whether to have a child or not, absent unwarranted interference by the state, unwarranted interference such as being compelled to be 'strictly counseled.'

The arrogance common to many on the right is just as considerable as their disdain for individual liberty.

 

[JoeB131]

I guess you have reading comprehension problems... For the second time, I did not say Darwin made the argument. People used Darwin's work to make their argument. Just as people have used the Bible to make their arguments or SCOTUS rulings to make their arguments.

which people, specifically? Because, Frankly, no one like Darwin in "JesusLand" today, much less 150 years ago when he first threw his theories out there. So it's really unlikely some Confederate was throwing out Darwin's theories as to why Slavery needed to continue.

The abolition movement was started by Quaker ministers. To suggest religion had something to do with prolonging slavery is a display of ignorance on a level fitting that of a moron who thinks Origin of the Species wasn't about evolution. It's not surprising you don't recognize the fetus as a living human organism, you're just not very bright.

Guy, why are you making arguments I didn't make. I Never said darwin's Origin of the SPecies wasn't about evolution. I pointed out that the dumb ass Christian crackers who fought to keep slavery never cited it as an excuse, as it didn't come out until Slavery was pretty much over by the time his theories began to spread.

On the other hand, the BIble is full of verses advocating slavery.

I mentioned counseling because I am concerned for women who might be cajoled into having an abortion then suffer the rest of their life over the guilt. None of you seem to give a shit about those women, even going to the extreme of denying they exist. They do exist, I have known three such women personally. I didn't mention wands up the hoo-haa but if that might make a woman reconsider aborting her baby, I am in favor of it.

I've denied they exist because Reagan sent out C. Everett Koop to find them and he never could. Then he tried to hide the evidence that most women who had abortions were postively well adjusted.

 

[Boss]

BOSS SAID:

“I didn't say I want to make abortion illegal. I want to make abortion rare... strictly counseled and regulated.”

And by seeking to do so manifest an undue – and un-Constitutional – burden on a woman's protected liberty to decide whether to have a child or not, absent unwarranted interference by the state, unwarranted interference such as being compelled to be 'strictly counseled.'

The arrogance common to many on the right is just as considerable as their disdain for individual liberty.

No, I want women who decide to have children to have that liberty. For women who don't want to have children but risk pregnancy through their own actions and choices, I don't think they should be allowed to have abortions on demand. I am for choices, but choices have consequences.

I don't want to see Roe v. Wade overturned, I want to see it clarified and some dignity for the unborn human life to be restored. At a certain stage, I don't feel the woman's right to privacy trumps the right of life for the unborn human inside her.

 

[JoeB131]

No, I want women who decide to have children to have that liberty. For women who don't want to have children but risk pregnancy through their own actions and choices, I don't think they should be allowed to have abortions on demand. I am for choices, but choices have consequences.

Yes, I know, the Poonany is a horrifying place for you.

I don't want to see Roe v. Wade overturned, I want to see it clarified and some dignity for the unborn human life to be restored. At a certain stage, I don't feel the woman's right to privacy trumps the right of life for the unborn human inside her.

Why? Roe is pretty clear. This isn't a place where government or churches belong. This is a decision between a woman and her doctor.

You see, again, what you keep avoiding is you think before 1973, women were gleefully having these unwanted babies. They weren't. They were going to their OB/GYN, getting abortions and having "D&C" written on their charts.

It's why there wasn't a HUGE drop in the birth rate in 1973. In fact, the birth numbers went UP.

 

[Boss]

I guess you have reading comprehension problems... For the second time, I did not say Darwin made the argument. People used Darwin's work to make their argument. Just as people have used the Bible to make their arguments or SCOTUS rulings to make their arguments.

which people, specifically? Because, Frankly, no one like Darwin in "JesusLand" today, much less 150 years ago when he first threw his theories out there. So it's really unlikely some Confederate was throwing out Darwin's theories as to why Slavery needed to continue.

I did not say Confederates were using Darwin to theorize why slavery should continue. Are you smoking the crack pipe tonight? Why do you keep misreading my posts? Long before the Confederacy, when the abolition movement began, led by Quaker ministers and other CHRISTIANS who were appalled at slavery of humans, those who opposed their movement often cited the work of Darwin, which was the most talked about physical science of the day.

The abolition movement was started by Quaker ministers. To suggest religion had something to do with prolonging slavery is a display of ignorance on a level fitting that of a moron who thinks Origin of the Species wasn't about evolution. It's not surprising you don't recognize the fetus as a living human organism, you're just not very bright.

Guy, why are you making arguments I didn't make. I Never said darwin's Origin of the SPecies wasn't about evolution. I pointed out that the dumb ass Christian crackers who fought to keep slavery never cited it as an excuse, as it didn't come out until Slavery was pretty much over by the time his theories began to spread.

Again, it wasn't the Christians who fought to keep slavery. They were leading the abolition movement. Darwin's works were cited in Dred Scott, if I am not mistaken. Could have been the Fugitive Slave Act, but it was before he published Origin of the Species. No, he wasn't as well known back then, he was considered to be on the cutting edge of science and his work was used to claim "Negroids" were a different species. It was the Religious who recognized them as God's creatures of humanity and began to fight for their liberation.

On the other hand, the BIble is full of verses advocating slavery.

This just isn't true. The Bible certainly does not ADVOCATE slavery. It was written for first century Christians in a time where slavery was a fact of life. This leads religious bigots such as yourself to make false assumptions about something you know very little about.

I mentioned counseling because I am concerned for women who might be cajoled into having an abortion then suffer the rest of their life over the guilt. None of you seem to give a shit about those women, even going to the extreme of denying they exist. They do exist, I have known three such women personally. I didn't mention wands up the hoo-haa but if that might make a woman reconsider aborting her baby, I am in favor of it.

I've denied they exist because Reagan sent out C. Everett Koop to find them and he never could. Then he tried to hide the evidence that most women who had abortions were postively well adjusted.

I have no idea of what you are talking about with Koop and Reagan needing to find someone. Like I said, I personally know of three women who regretted their decision to have an abortion and it effected their lives. If they are the only three who have ever been effected, my efforts to have mandatory pre-abortion counseling are worth it.

 

[Boss]

No, I want women who decide to have children to have that liberty. For women who don't want to have children but risk pregnancy through their own actions and choices, I don't think they should be allowed to have abortions on demand. I am for choices, but choices have consequences.

Yes, I know, the Poonany is a horrifying place for you.

I don't want to see Roe v. Wade overturned, I want to see it clarified and some dignity for the unborn human life to be restored. At a certain stage, I don't feel the woman's right to privacy trumps the right of life for the unborn human inside her.

Why? Roe is pretty clear. This isn't a place where government or churches belong. This is a decision between a woman and her doctor.

You see, again, what you keep avoiding is you think before 1973, women were gleefully having these unwanted babies. They weren't. They were going to their OB/GYN, getting abortions and having "D&C" written on their charts.

It's why there wasn't a HUGE drop in the birth rate in 1973. In fact, the birth numbers went UP.

No, there were SOME women having abortions and SOME women facing the consequences of their actions. SOME women had enough respect for human life to carry the child and give it up for adoption.

It shouldn't be left to the woman and her doctor whether she should kill her baby. Someone needs to speak for the baby.

 

[Bfgrn]

Roe v. Wade made it very clear that until a fertilized egg reaches 'viability', it has no Constitutional rights. That is the law of the land. You don't have to like it, but you do have to abide by it. It is that simple.

Well sorry moron, I hate that we're not having the debate you want to have. I've not argued that abortion is unconstitutional or illegal. The fact that SCOTUS ruled on "viability" of something is evidence that 'something' does exist. If it didn't exist you could hardly determine viability or non-viability. So we know the human life exists and the SCOTUS admits this when it considers "viability" of said life.

I never said I had to like the law or didn't have to abide by it. I do have the right to petition for redress and change the law to something I like better. Why the hell do lefties turn into Benito Mussolini when "law of the land" is in their favor and into Che Guevara when it's not?

You right wing authoritarians are the "Mussolinis" of this world. I don't believe a single word you say about caring about an egg. None of you give a rats ass about a fertilized egg. You folks show no regard for the crawling and the walking, why should anyone believe you suddenly care about what happens to your "child in utero"...

The "law of the land" was decided 7-2 by a conservative leaning Supreme Court. The motivation for the ruling was to protect doctors from litigation. At the time of the ruling the group that supported abortion the most were Republicans (68%).

What changed? The far right wing "christians" turned it into a political weapon after the Carter administration tried to take away the tax exempt status of Robert Jones University because of their racist policies. Jerry "Benito" Falwell never uttered a word about 'abortion' until 1979.

The very same right wingers who "weep for eggs" oppose the Equal Rights Amendment. They are not about "eggs" they are about keeping women subservient to men.

If you right wing authoritarians are ever able to overturn Roe v. Wade, then YOU will own the consequences of having a woman's uterus property of the state. YOU will be on the hook for paying $30,000- $50,000 for the cost of having YOUR baby. And if the women loses her job or becomes debilitated due to complications, you will be on the hook for a LOT more.

This is not about "abortion", this is about politics, control, and keeping women as "vessels"

And again with the spewing hatred for Conservatives and Christians without any real substance for your argument other than politics. That's really sad and pathetic, you are a sad a pathetic person.

If you right wing authoritarians are ever able to overturn Roe v. Wade, then YOU will own the consequences of having a woman's uterus property of the state. YOU will be on the hook for paying $30,000- $50,000 for the cost of having YOUR baby. And if the women loses her job or becomes debilitated due to complications, you will be on the hook for a LOT more.

What a sick and depraved individual. Here you define your motivation for allowing people to kill their unborn babies because it's too much of a financial burden. Just how low does your regard for human life go?

There is plenty of 'substance'...

Anti-Choice Violence and Intimidation

A campaign of violence, vandalism, and intimidation is endangering providers and patients and curtailing the availability of abortion services. Since 1993, eight clinic workers – including four doctors, two clinic employees, a clinic escort, and a security guard – have been murdered in the United States. Seventeen attempted murders have also occurred since 1991. In fact, opponents of choice have directed more than 6,400 reported acts of violence against abortion providers since 1977, including bombings, arsons, death threats, kidnappings, and assaults, as well as more than 175,000 reported acts of disruption, including bomb threats and harassing calls.

Lord what a moron. Trying to have a conversation with you is like a fucking Abbott and Costello routine. You jump from one inane point to another making no sense whatsoever in the process. Whenever you are challenged, just toss out another red herring or erect another straw man!

I suppose with this latest nugget, we're supposed to abandon the pro-life movement and disregard the 45 million people who never had a voice to defend themselves, all because some abortion clinic workers have been "martyred" for your cause? ...'Fraid not!

Boss: "And again with the spewing hatred for Conservatives and Christians without any real substance for your argument other than politics"

I just gave you "REAL substance"...murder, attempted murder, violence, bombings, arson, death threats, kidnappings, assault, disruptions, bomb threats and harassment.

You call them "nuggets"

Boss: "I've never stated that abortion is murder"

Well now you just did.

Or do you always justify murder, bombings and violence against Americans exercising their legal rights? Is that the right's way of stopping what they don't agree with ...all in the name of saving lives...?

What a MORON.

 

[Boss]

Well sorry moron, I hate that we're not having the debate you want to have. I've not argued that abortion is unconstitutional or illegal. The fact that SCOTUS ruled on "viability" of something is evidence that 'something' does exist. If it didn't exist you could hardly determine viability or non-viability. So we know the human life exists and the SCOTUS admits this when it considers "viability" of said life.

I never said I had to like the law or didn't have to abide by it. I do have the right to petition for redress and change the law to something I like better. Why the hell do lefties turn into Benito Mussolini when "law of the land" is in their favor and into Che Guevara when it's not?

You right wing authoritarians are the "Mussolinis" of this world. I don't believe a single word you say about caring about an egg. None of you give a rats ass about a fertilized egg. You folks show no regard for the crawling and the walking, why should anyone believe you suddenly care about what happens to your "child in utero"...

The "law of the land" was decided 7-2 by a conservative leaning Supreme Court. The motivation for the ruling was to protect doctors from litigation. At the time of the ruling the group that supported abortion the most were Republicans (68%).

What changed? The far right wing "christians" turned it into a political weapon after the Carter administration tried to take away the tax exempt status of Robert Jones University because of their racist policies. Jerry "Benito" Falwell never uttered a word about 'abortion' until 1979.

The very same right wingers who "weep for eggs" oppose the Equal Rights Amendment. They are not about "eggs" they are about keeping women subservient to men.

If you right wing authoritarians are ever able to overturn Roe v. Wade, then YOU will own the consequences of having a woman's uterus property of the state. YOU will be on the hook for paying $30,000- $50,000 for the cost of having YOUR baby. And if the women loses her job or becomes debilitated due to complications, you will be on the hook for a LOT more.

This is not about "abortion", this is about politics, control, and keeping women as "vessels"

And again with the spewing hatred for Conservatives and Christians without any real substance for your argument other than politics. That's really sad and pathetic, you are a sad a pathetic person.

If you right wing authoritarians are ever able to overturn Roe v. Wade, then YOU will own the consequences of having a woman's uterus property of the state. YOU will be on the hook for paying $30,000- $50,000 for the cost of having YOUR baby. And if the women loses her job or becomes debilitated due to complications, you will be on the hook for a LOT more.

What a sick and depraved individual. Here you define your motivation for allowing people to kill their unborn babies because it's too much of a financial burden. Just how low does your regard for human life go?

There is plenty of 'substance'...

Anti-Choice Violence and Intimidation

A campaign of violence, vandalism, and intimidation is endangering providers and patients and curtailing the availability of abortion services. Since 1993, eight clinic workers – including four doctors, two clinic employees, a clinic escort, and a security guard – have been murdered in the United States. Seventeen attempted murders have also occurred since 1991. In fact, opponents of choice have directed more than 6,400 reported acts of violence against abortion providers since 1977, including bombings, arsons, death threats, kidnappings, and assaults, as well as more than 175,000 reported acts of disruption, including bomb threats and harassing calls.

Lord what a moron. Trying to have a conversation with you is like a fucking Abbott and Costello routine. You jump from one inane point to another making no sense whatsoever in the process. Whenever you are challenged, just toss out another red herring or erect another straw man!

I suppose with this latest nugget, we're supposed to abandon the pro-life movement and disregard the 45 million people who never had a voice to defend themselves, all because some abortion clinic workers have been "martyred" for your cause? ...'Fraid not!

Boss: "And again with the spewing hatred for Conservatives and Christians without any real substance for your argument other than politics"

I just gave you "REAL substance"...murder, attempted murder, violence, bombings, arson, death threats, kidnappings, assault, disruptions, bomb threats and harassment.

You call them "nuggets"

Boss: "I've never stated that abortion is murder"

Well now you just did.

Or do you always justify murder, bombings and violence against Americans exercising their legal rights? Is that the right's way of stopping what they don't agree with ...all in the name of saving lives...?

What a MORON.

What in the hell do abortion clinic bombings have to do with some right you think women are supposed to have to kill their babies? There is no 'substance' there other than emotive hyperbole. That's what you seem to be full of.

When did I justify bombings? Why do you feel compelled to slander me like that?

Now... on the issue of fetuses and murder, you can be charged with murder of a fetus, it has happened and people have been prosecuted for it. Abortion is a legal medical procedure, it is not considered murder under the law. People who claim abortion is murder are somewhat correct on a philosophical basis because it is the willful taking of human life.

 

[JoeB131]

I did not say Confederates were using Darwin to theorize why slavery should continue. Are you smoking the crack pipe tonight? Why do you keep misreading my posts? Long before the Confederacy, when the abolition movement began, led by Quaker ministers and other CHRISTIANS who were appalled at slavery of humans, those who opposed their movement often cited the work of Darwin, which was the most talked about physical science of the day.

Maybe because you can't articulate a thought without coming off as a crazy person?

Point was, Christians in the SOuth whipped out their bible and pointed to verses that showed God was totally cool with slavery. They didn't whip out their Darwin (mostly because he hadn't written that stuff yet, and he was opposed to slavery.)

Again, it wasn't the Christians who fought to keep slavery. They were leading the abolition movement. Darwin's works were cited in Dred Scott, if I am not mistaken.

Well, you probably are. Maybe when you get back to me with proof on that one, I'll stop treating you like a stupid person. Oh, wait. Too late.

This just isn't true. The Bible certainly does not ADVOCATE slavery. It was written for first century Christians in a time where slavery was a fact of life. This leads religious bigots such as yourself to make false assumptions about something you know very little about.

Here they are... a bunch of bible verses that endorse slavery and tell slaves to suck it up.

What the Bible says about slavery

The bible didn't change. We did.

I have no idea of what you are talking about with Koop and Reagan needing to find someone. Like I said, I personally know of three women who regretted their decision to have an abortion and it effected their lives. If they are the only three who have ever been effected, my efforts to have mandatory pre-abortion counseling are worth it.

Oh, the personal anecdote. Yup, that certainly trumps research that proves most women are fine with their abortions.