The Politics of the "Abortion" Word Games

[JoeB131]

No, there were SOME women having abortions and SOME women facing the consequences of their actions. SOME women had enough respect for human life to carry the child and give it up for adoption.

It shouldn't be left to the woman and her doctor whether she should kill her baby. Someone needs to speak for the baby.

No, we don't. Fetuses aren't "babies". And frankly, fuck these religious assholes. Abortions for everyone, make the churches pay for them.

 

[Bfgrn]

You right wing authoritarians are the "Mussolinis" of this world. I don't believe a single word you say about caring about an egg. None of you give a rats ass about a fertilized egg. You folks show no regard for the crawling and the walking, why should anyone believe you suddenly care about what happens to your "child in utero"...

The "law of the land" was decided 7-2 by a conservative leaning Supreme Court. The motivation for the ruling was to protect doctors from litigation. At the time of the ruling the group that supported abortion the most were Republicans (68%).

What changed? The far right wing "christians" turned it into a political weapon after the Carter administration tried to take away the tax exempt status of Robert Jones University because of their racist policies. Jerry "Benito" Falwell never uttered a word about 'abortion' until 1979.

The very same right wingers who "weep for eggs" oppose the Equal Rights Amendment. They are not about "eggs" they are about keeping women subservient to men.

If you right wing authoritarians are ever able to overturn Roe v. Wade, then YOU will own the consequences of having a woman's uterus property of the state. YOU will be on the hook for paying $30,000- $50,000 for the cost of having YOUR baby. And if the women loses her job or becomes debilitated due to complications, you will be on the hook for a LOT more.

This is not about "abortion", this is about politics, control, and keeping women as "vessels"

And again with the spewing hatred for Conservatives and Christians without any real substance for your argument other than politics. That's really sad and pathetic, you are a sad a pathetic person.

If you right wing authoritarians are ever able to overturn Roe v. Wade, then YOU will own the consequences of having a woman's uterus property of the state. YOU will be on the hook for paying $30,000- $50,000 for the cost of having YOUR baby. And if the women loses her job or becomes debilitated due to complications, you will be on the hook for a LOT more.

What a sick and depraved individual. Here you define your motivation for allowing people to kill their unborn babies because it's too much of a financial burden. Just how low does your regard for human life go?

There is plenty of 'substance'...

Anti-Choice Violence and Intimidation

A campaign of violence, vandalism, and intimidation is endangering providers and patients and curtailing the availability of abortion services. Since 1993, eight clinic workers – including four doctors, two clinic employees, a clinic escort, and a security guard – have been murdered in the United States. Seventeen attempted murders have also occurred since 1991. In fact, opponents of choice have directed more than 6,400 reported acts of violence against abortion providers since 1977, including bombings, arsons, death threats, kidnappings, and assaults, as well as more than 175,000 reported acts of disruption, including bomb threats and harassing calls.

Lord what a moron. Trying to have a conversation with you is like a fucking Abbott and Costello routine. You jump from one inane point to another making no sense whatsoever in the process. Whenever you are challenged, just toss out another red herring or erect another straw man!

I suppose with this latest nugget, we're supposed to abandon the pro-life movement and disregard the 45 million people who never had a voice to defend themselves, all because some abortion clinic workers have been "martyred" for your cause? ...'Fraid not!

Boss: "And again with the spewing hatred for Conservatives and Christians without any real substance for your argument other than politics"

I just gave you "REAL substance"...murder, attempted murder, violence, bombings, arson, death threats, kidnappings, assault, disruptions, bomb threats and harassment.

You call them "nuggets"

Boss: "I've never stated that abortion is murder"

Well now you just did.

Or do you always justify murder, bombings and violence against Americans exercising their legal rights? Is that the right's way of stopping what they don't agree with ...all in the name of saving lives...?

What a MORON.

What in the hell do abortion clinic bombings have to do with some right you think women are supposed to have to kill their babies? There is no 'substance' there other than emotive hyperbole. That's what you seem to be full of.

When did I justify bombings? Why do you feel compelled to slander me like that?

Now... on the issue of fetuses and murder, you can be charged with murder of a fetus, it has happened and people have been prosecuted for it. Abortion is a legal medical procedure, it is not considered murder under the law. People who claim abortion is murder are somewhat correct on a philosophical basis because it is the willful taking of human life.

You are way beyond a moron. You have a VERY serious cognitive illness. Have a competent adult read what you just wrote and explain why you need to be institutionalized for the remainder of your natural life.

 

[Boss]

You are way beyond a moron. You have a VERY serious cognitive illness. Have a competent adult read what you just wrote and explain why you need to be institutionalized for the remainder of your natural life.

• "Zone 2": Political Forum / Israel and Palestine Forum / Race Relations/Racism Forum / Religion & Ethics Forum: Baiting and polarizing OP's (Opening Posts), and thread titles risk the thread either being moved or trashed. Keep it relevant, choose wisely. Each post must contain content relevant to the thread subject, in addition to any flame. No trolling. No hit and run flames. No hijacking or derailing threads.

USMB Rules and Guidelines US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

And you need to have an adult read you the rules to USMB posting so you'll stop violating them. This makes two days in a row you have come here and flagrantly violated this rule, and I am not going to ignore it any longer. You are old enough to know how to play by the rules. If you post again without including subject-relative content, I will report you and encourage others to do the same.

In keeping with the rules, I will add that fetuses are still human beings, your vapid little retort didn't change that fact one iota.

 

[Boss]

No, there were SOME women having abortions and SOME women facing the consequences of their actions. SOME women had enough respect for human life to carry the child and give it up for adoption.

It shouldn't be left to the woman and her doctor whether she should kill her baby. Someone needs to speak for the baby.

No, we don't. Fetuses aren't "babies". And frankly, fuck these religious assholes. Abortions for everyone, make the churches pay for them.

Well yes, fetuses are babies in the fetal stage of development. If you wish to claim they are not, you need to submit some scientific evidence to support your claim. So far, you haven't done so. I am not concerned with your hate and bigotry toward the religious, or your perverted gay fantasies about having anal sex with them. You don't have the authority to decide who pays for things, so why not shut your pie hole and stop drawing flies?

 

[Derideo_Te]

You are way beyond a moron. You have a VERY serious cognitive illness. Have a competent adult read what you just wrote and explain why you need to be institutionalized for the remainder of your natural life.

• "Zone 2": Political Forum / Israel and Palestine Forum / Race Relations/Racism Forum / Religion & Ethics Forum: Baiting and polarizing OP's (Opening Posts), and thread titles risk the thread either being moved or trashed. Keep it relevant, choose wisely. Each post must contain content relevant to the thread subject, in addition to any flame. No trolling. No hit and run flames. No hijacking or derailing threads.

USMB Rules and Guidelines US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

And you need to have an adult read you the rules to USMB posting so you'll stop violating them. This makes two days in a row you have come here and flagrantly violated this rule, and I am not going to ignore it any longer. You are old enough to know how to play by the rules. If you post again without including subject-relative content, I will report you and encourage others to do the same.

In keeping with the rules, I will add that fetuses are still human beings, your vapid little retort didn't change that fact one iota.

Throwing a hissyfit because you abide by the rules when throwing out gratuitous insults but others don't?

Does the term hypocrisy mean anything at all to you?

Given that you don't comprehend that a fetus is not a person in the legal sense until post partum you probably don't which makes you the moron in the room.

 

[Boss]

Throwing a hissyfit because you abide by the rules when throwing out gratuitous insults but others don't?

Does the term hypocrisy mean anything at all to you?

Given that you don't comprehend that a fetus is not a person in the legal sense until post partum you probably don't which makes you the moron in the room.

No hissy fit, just a simple warning. Maybe you need to read the rules again... nothing wrong with gratuitous insults, they just have to be accompanied by subject-relative content.

I've never stated that a fetus is a person in the legal sense. If this were so, abortions would probably be ruled unconstitutional in all cases. Our debate is not over whether or not abortion is currently legal.

All that said, the Unborn Victims of Violence Act clearly recognizes a fetus as a human being with some degree of Constitutional protection.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

No, there were SOME women having abortions and SOME women facing the consequences of their actions. SOME women had enough respect for human life to carry the child and give it up for adoption.

It shouldn't be left to the woman and her doctor whether she should kill her baby. Someone needs to speak for the baby.

No, we don't. Fetuses aren't "babies". And frankly, fuck these religious assholes. Abortions for everyone, make the churches pay for them.

Well yes, fetuses are babies in the fetal stage of development. If you wish to claim they are not, you need to submit some scientific evidence to support your claim. So far, you haven't done so. I am not concerned with your hate and bigotry toward the religious, or your perverted gay fantasies about having anal sex with them. You don't have the authority to decide who pays for things, so why not shut your pie hole and stop drawing flies?

Well, no, an embryo/fetus is not a 'baby' in a legal, Constitutional context, where only the law matters with regard to those who seek to end the practice of abortion by making it illegal.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Throwing a hissyfit because you abide by the rules when throwing out gratuitous insults but others don't?

Does the term hypocrisy mean anything at all to you?

Given that you don't comprehend that a fetus is not a person in the legal sense until post partum you probably don't which makes you the moron in the room.

No hissy fit, just a simple warning. Maybe you need to read the rules again... nothing wrong with gratuitous insults, they just have to be accompanied by subject-relative content.

I've never stated that a fetus is a person in the legal sense. If this were so, abortions would probably be ruled unconstitutional in all cases. Our debate is not over whether or not abortion is currently legal.

All that said, the Unborn Victims of Violence Act clearly recognizes a fetus as a human being with some degree of Constitutional protection.

So did RvW. But none of that alters the rights of the woman concerned to choose as she deems fit.

 

[BlindBoo]

A fetus cannot survive outside the womb, therefore it is not a person.

A newborn infant cannot survive outside the womb, it doesn't know how to obtain nourishment and doesn't have the capacity to do so on it's own. It will be at least a few years before the organism has developed any of the skills required for survival.

This is a false criteria for how to determine if an organism exists. You see it doesn't have to continue being a living organism outside the womb to be an organism, it already is an organism. The fact that you understand the fetus can or can't survive is clearest of indication you understand it must be a living thing. How can something survive or not survive if it's not already alive?

Viability is not the able to fend for oneself.

 

[BlindBoo]

You right wing authoritarians are the "Mussolinis" of this world. I don't believe a single word you say about caring about an egg. None of you give a rats ass about a fertilized egg. You folks show no regard for the crawling and the walking, why should anyone believe you suddenly care about what happens to your "child in utero"...

The "law of the land" was decided 7-2 by a conservative leaning Supreme Court. The motivation for the ruling was to protect doctors from litigation. At the time of the ruling the group that supported abortion the most were Republicans (68%).

What changed? The far right wing "christians" turned it into a political weapon after the Carter administration tried to take away the tax exempt status of Robert Jones University because of their racist policies. Jerry "Benito" Falwell never uttered a word about 'abortion' until 1979.

The very same right wingers who "weep for eggs" oppose the Equal Rights Amendment. They are not about "eggs" they are about keeping women subservient to men.

If you right wing authoritarians are ever able to overturn Roe v. Wade, then YOU will own the consequences of having a woman's uterus property of the state. YOU will be on the hook for paying $30,000- $50,000 for the cost of having YOUR baby. And if the women loses her job or becomes debilitated due to complications, you will be on the hook for a LOT more.

This is not about "abortion", this is about politics, control, and keeping women as "vessels"

And again with the spewing hatred for Conservatives and Christians without any real substance for your argument other than politics. That's really sad and pathetic, you are a sad a pathetic person.

If you right wing authoritarians are ever able to overturn Roe v. Wade, then YOU will own the consequences of having a woman's uterus property of the state. YOU will be on the hook for paying $30,000- $50,000 for the cost of having YOUR baby. And if the women loses her job or becomes debilitated due to complications, you will be on the hook for a LOT more.

What a sick and depraved individual. Here you define your motivation for allowing people to kill their unborn babies because it's too much of a financial burden. Just how low does your regard for human life go?

There is plenty of 'substance'...

Anti-Choice Violence and Intimidation

A campaign of violence, vandalism, and intimidation is endangering providers and patients and curtailing the availability of abortion services. Since 1993, eight clinic workers – including four doctors, two clinic employees, a clinic escort, and a security guard – have been murdered in the United States. Seventeen attempted murders have also occurred since 1991. In fact, opponents of choice have directed more than 6,400 reported acts of violence against abortion providers since 1977, including bombings, arsons, death threats, kidnappings, and assaults, as well as more than 175,000 reported acts of disruption, including bomb threats and harassing calls.

Lord what a moron. Trying to have a conversation with you is like a fucking Abbott and Costello routine. You jump from one inane point to another making no sense whatsoever in the process. Whenever you are challenged, just toss out another red herring or erect another straw man!

I suppose with this latest nugget, we're supposed to abandon the pro-life movement and disregard the 45 million people who never had a voice to defend themselves, all because some abortion clinic workers have been "martyred" for your cause? ...'Fraid not!

Boss: "And again with the spewing hatred for Conservatives and Christians without any real substance for your argument other than politics"

I just gave you "REAL substance"...murder, attempted murder, violence, bombings, arson, death threats, kidnappings, assault, disruptions, bomb threats and harassment.

You call them "nuggets"

Boss: "I've never stated that abortion is murder"

Well now you just did.

Or do you always justify murder, bombings and violence against Americans exercising their legal rights? Is that the right's way of stopping what they don't agree with ...all in the name of saving lives...?

What a MORON.

What in the hell do abortion clinic bombings have to do with some right you think women are supposed to have to kill their babies? There is no 'substance' there other than emotive hyperbole. That's what you seem to be full of.

When did I justify bombings? Why do you feel compelled to slander me like that?

Now... on the issue of fetuses and murder, you can be charged with murder of a fetus, it has happened and people have been prosecuted for it. Abortion is a legal medical procedure, it is not considered murder under the law. People who claim abortion is murder are somewhat correct on a philosophical basis because it is the willful taking of human life.

Isn't killing babies murder?

BOSS SAID:

“I didn't say I want to make abortion illegal. I want to make abortion rare... strictly counseled and regulated.”

And by seeking to do so manifest an undue – and un-Constitutional – burden on a woman's protected liberty to decide whether to have a child or not, absent unwarranted interference by the state, unwarranted interference such as being compelled to be 'strictly counseled.'

The arrogance common to many on the right is just as considerable as their disdain for individual liberty.

No, I want women who decide to have children to have that liberty. For women who don't want to have children but risk pregnancy through their own actions and choices, I don't think they should be allowed to have abortions on demand. I am for choices, but choices have consequences.

I don't want to see Roe v. Wade overturned, I want to see it clarified and some dignity for the unborn human life to be restored. At a certain stage, I don't feel the woman's right to privacy trumps the right of life for the unborn human inside her.

You have every right to not abort, your choice. You have no right to make that choice for someone else.

 

[Boss]

Well, no, an embryo/fetus is not a 'baby' in a legal, Constitutional context, where only the law matters with regard to those who seek to end the practice of abortion by making it illegal.

LMFAO... Okay, so let me get this straight... Any argument against the legality of abortion is irrelevant because abortions are legal? That's exemplary circular reasoning you've constructed!

In a legal and constitutional sense, the fetus/embryo is a member of the species homo sapien, according to US Law under the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.

 

[Boss]

A fetus cannot survive outside the womb, therefore it is not a person.

A newborn infant cannot survive outside the womb, it doesn't know how to obtain nourishment and doesn't have the capacity to do so on it's own. It will be at least a few years before the organism has developed any of the skills required for survival.

This is a false criteria for how to determine if an organism exists. You see it doesn't have to continue being a living organism outside the womb to be an organism, it already is an organism. The fact that you understand the fetus can or can't survive is clearest of indication you understand it must be a living thing. How can something survive or not survive if it's not already alive?

Viability is not the able to fend for oneself.

Define what makes a fetus viable please?

 

[Boss]

You have every right to not abort, your choice. You have no right to make that choice for someone else.

I have a right to speak for the innocent human lives you are destroying.

 

[BlindBoo]

A fetus cannot survive outside the womb, therefore it is not a person.

A newborn infant cannot survive outside the womb, it doesn't know how to obtain nourishment and doesn't have the capacity to do so on it's own. It will be at least a few years before the organism has developed any of the skills required for survival.

This is a false criteria for how to determine if an organism exists. You see it doesn't have to continue being a living organism outside the womb to be an organism, it already is an organism. The fact that you understand the fetus can or can't survive is clearest of indication you understand it must be a living thing. How can something survive or not survive if it's not already alive?

Viability is not the able to fend for oneself.

Define what makes a fetus viable please?

Viable - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

 

[BlindBoo]

You have every right to not abort, your choice. You have no right to make that choice for someone else.

I have a right to speak for the innocent human lives you are destroying.

No. You have the right to speak your mind, including your visions of grander (and or a snide insult here and there).

 

[Boss]

A fetus cannot survive outside the womb, therefore it is not a person.

A newborn infant cannot survive outside the womb, it doesn't know how to obtain nourishment and doesn't have the capacity to do so on it's own. It will be at least a few years before the organism has developed any of the skills required for survival.

This is a false criteria for how to determine if an organism exists. You see it doesn't have to continue being a living organism outside the womb to be an organism, it already is an organism. The fact that you understand the fetus can or can't survive is clearest of indication you understand it must be a living thing. How can something survive or not survive if it's not already alive?

Viability is not the able to fend for oneself.

Define what makes a fetus viable please?

Viable - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

I did not ask you to post a dictionary link, I asked you what makes a fetus viable. .

You stated viability is not the ability to fend for oneself. According to the link you posted, that is exactly what viability is and what it means. And again, the biological definition of when something becomes an organism, has nothing to do with how long it can remain an organism on it's own or otherwise. It does not have to become something it already is.

 

[Boss]

You have every right to not abort, your choice. You have no right to make that choice for someone else.

I have a right to speak for the innocent human lives you are destroying.

No. You have the right to speak your mind, including your visions of grander (and or a snide insult here and there).

No, I have the right to speak my mind AND the right to speak for the unborn human life you are destroying. I also have the right to lobby for changes in the law. I have the right to demand reform. I have the right to protest injustice. You don't have the right to tell me I can't.

 

[BlindBoo]

You have every right to not abort, your choice. You have no right to make that choice for someone else.

I have a right to speak for the innocent human lives you are destroying.

No. You have the right to speak your mind, including your visions of grander (and or a snide insult here and there).

No, I have the right to speak my mind AND the right to speak for the unborn human life you are destroying. I also have the right to lobby for changes in the law. I have the right to demand reform. I have the right to protest injustice. You don't have the right to tell me I can't.

No unborn human has the ability to give you that right so it is an impossible assertion on your part. You have the right to pronounce and claim that you speak for them but in reality, you do not, and that you make that claim makes you a little full of yourself imo.

 

[BlindBoo]

A fetus cannot survive outside the womb, therefore it is not a person.

A newborn infant cannot survive outside the womb, it doesn't know how to obtain nourishment and doesn't have the capacity to do so on it's own. It will be at least a few years before the organism has developed any of the skills required for survival.

This is a false criteria for how to determine if an organism exists. You see it doesn't have to continue being a living organism outside the womb to be an organism, it already is an organism. The fact that you understand the fetus can or can't survive is clearest of indication you understand it must be a living thing. How can something survive or not survive if it's not already alive?

Viability is not the able to fend for oneself.

Define what makes a fetus viable please?

Viable - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

I did not ask you to post a dictionary link, I asked you what makes a fetus viable. .

You stated viability is not the ability to fend for oneself. According to the link you posted, that is exactly what viability is and what it means. And again, the biological definition of when something becomes an organism, has nothing to do with how long it can remain an organism on it's own or otherwise. It does not have to become something it already is.

Can't figure it out even with the clues given by Websters? Call up your favorite doctor and ask them what must function in a human being in order for it to survive.

 

[Boss]

No unborn human has the ability to give you that right so it is an impossible assertion on your part. You have the right to pronounce and claim that you speak for them but in reality, you do not, and that you make that claim makes you a little full of yourself imo.

I understand. I am sure the same sentiment was held for those who spoke up for the slaves and women back in the day. Animals also can't give me that right and I advocate for their right to not be abused. So I think I am going to just keep on standing up for whoever's rights I feel are being violated, and if you don't like me doing that, you can bring your happy ass to Alabama and try to stop me.