The Pope is a moron

[ding]

Then you didn't read them all. Nor did you read the eyewitness testimony of Alexis de Tocqueville.

I read most of them. Tocqueville was not a founding father, in case you missed it. And I did not read his opinion piece. I asked you to provide evidence that the founding fathers claimed morality was impossible without religion and you failed.

Your objectivity is sorely lacking.

LOL! Give me an objective quote from a founding father stating that morality was impossible without religion.

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports...In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens...”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“…And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

National morality? WTF is national morality? Collectivism?

Don't be silly. That would the morality of the people as a whole. You know... the same observation that Alexis de Tocqueville made. The one you couldn't bring yourself to read. But putting that aside, he fact remains your beliefs are more in line with the founding fathers of communism than they are the founding fathers of freedom and liberty.

 

[ding]

Like a subtle narcotic, it destroys the spirit of man. Even FDR acknowledged this.

Yep. Just like religion.

1) Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness
a) Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations
b) Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions
c) Religion has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing
d) Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity
e) Religion has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility
f) Religion teaches accountability and responsibility
g) Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave
h) Religion teaches that actions have consequences
i) Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe
j) Religion helps us feel connected to one another and to nature
k) Religion helps us feel less alone in the world
l) Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit
m) Religion serves to bind the community together
n) Religion inspires love, peace and happiness
o) Religion serves to create traditions
p) Religion brings order to our lives
q) Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill
r) Religion can act as a source of hope for the oppressed
s) Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves
2) Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon.
a) No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church
i) Modern science was born in the Catholic Church
ii) Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market
iii) The Catholic Church invented the university
iv) Western law grew out of Church canon law
v) the Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life
(1) The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.
b) Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians
c) Religion gave us America
d) Religion gave us incredible artwork
e) Religion gave us incredible music
f) Religion gave us incredible architecture
g) Christianity has spread democracy
h) Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression.
i) Christians rebuilt Europe after WWII
j) Christians rebuilt Japan after WWII
k) Christians put a man on the moon.
l) Christians ended the cold war.

Christians also commit more crimes in the USA than any other group.

A lot of your stuff is purely subjective. And a lot of these high moral Christians helped with literacy, etc., with the condition of conversion. Conform or flounder, in other words.

Sure. They also are responsible for great good. This is why you are not objective. You don't weigh the good and the bad. Would you like to abolish religion?

Again, no. And I always funnel my donations to Catholic Charities, because they help the poor and downtrodden illegal immigrants.

You are the one that cannot be objective. You are an emotional knee jerker and your screen name suits you.

I see. So you do see some good coming from Christianity, it is just that you don't believe that Western Civilization was built on Christian values or accept that the values listed are taught by Christian churches. Do you have a basis for these beliefs?

 

[ding]

Like a subtle narcotic, it destroys the spirit of man. Even FDR acknowledged this.

Yep. Just like religion.

That was what Karl Marx said.

History shows....

The Khmer Rouge abolished all religion and dispersed minority groups, forbidding them to speak their languages or to practice their customs. These policies had been implemented in less severe forms for many years prior to the Khmer Rouge's taking power.

Is there a point in your reply?

Yes, that your beliefs are aligned with Karl Marx about the value and benefit of religion and that history shows what happens when man abolishes religion.

Would you like to abolish religion?

I have no interest in abolishing religion. You are free to believe whatever you wish as long as you don't attempt to make me believe what you believe. Just because Marx understood that socialism and religion are both pablum for the masses (though I'm not convinced he really thought that about socialism) doesn't mean he wasn't right in that instance.

Socialism has always sought to subordinate religion just as you are now. Socialism destroys the spirit of man, while religion ennobles the spirit of man.

 

[ding]

Do you even believe in eternal damnation? If not, can you tell me what the big deal is then?

Do you even believe in socialism? If not, can you tell me what the big deal is then?

Like a subtle narcotic, it destroys the spirit of man. Even FDR acknowledged this.

Yep. Just like religion.

1) Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness
a) Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations
b) Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions
c) Religion has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing
d) Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity
e) Religion has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility
f) Religion teaches accountability and responsibility
g) Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave
h) Religion teaches that actions have consequences
i) Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe
j) Religion helps us feel connected to one another and to nature
k) Religion helps us feel less alone in the world
l) Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit
m) Religion serves to bind the community together
n) Religion inspires love, peace and happiness
o) Religion serves to create traditions
p) Religion brings order to our lives
q) Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill
r) Religion can act as a source of hope for the oppressed
s) Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves
2) Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon.
a) No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church
i) Modern science was born in the Catholic Church
ii) Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market
iii) The Catholic Church invented the university
iv) Western law grew out of Church canon law
v) the Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life
(1) The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.
b) Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians
c) Religion gave us America
d) Religion gave us incredible artwork
e) Religion gave us incredible music
f) Religion gave us incredible architecture
g) Christianity has spread democracy
h) Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression.
i) Christians rebuilt Europe after WWII
j) Christians rebuilt Japan after WWII
k) Christians put a man on the moon.
l) Christians ended the cold war.

Christians also commit more crimes in the USA than any other group.

A lot of your stuff is purely subjective. And a lot of these high moral Christians helped with literacy, etc., with the condition of conversion. Conform or flounder, in other words.

What exactly is subjective about this. Feel free to identify them by their number. Wow... the fact that you blame Christians for the "condition of the converse" and fail to recognize any good they have done proves you are not objective. By any OBJECTIVE measure, religion in general and Christianity in specific, have been a force for good. What good has come from atheism?

 

[OldLady]

I have never, ever, heard a Pope bashed like this one is on this board.
He is a POPE. They believe in all that charity and love stuff and he begs us to be compassionate. Now he is begging us to be polite in our discourse. Not your cup of tea? Fine, ignore him, but it's not a big shocker he would call for any of those things.
OP's not Catholic, anyway, so what skin is it off his nose?
I'm afraid SOMEBODY is going to go to Hell if he doesn't watch out.

 

[Ravi]

I read most of them. Tocqueville was not a founding father, in case you missed it. And I did not read his opinion piece. I asked you to provide evidence that the founding fathers claimed morality was impossible without religion and you failed.

Your objectivity is sorely lacking.

LOL! Give me an objective quote from a founding father stating that morality was impossible without religion.

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports...In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens...”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“…And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

National morality? WTF is national morality? Collectivism?

Don't be silly. That would the morality of the people as a whole. You know... the same observation that Alexis de Tocqueville made. The one you couldn't bring yourself to read. But putting that aside, he fact remains your beliefs are more in line with the founding fathers of communism than they are the founding fathers of freedom and liberty.

Interesting that you cherry picked from Washington's speech. This is even more interesting:

Washington rejected an additional sentence, also written by Alexander Hamilton, with a stronger sentiment: "does it [national morality] not require the aid of a generally received and divinely authoritative Religion?"[34]

Obviously he wasn't stating that morality cannot exist without religion.

You are still failing.

 

[ding]

Your objectivity is sorely lacking.

LOL! Give me an objective quote from a founding father stating that morality was impossible without religion.

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports...In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens...”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“…And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

National morality? WTF is national morality? Collectivism?

Don't be silly. That would the morality of the people as a whole. You know... the same observation that Alexis de Tocqueville made. The one you couldn't bring yourself to read. But putting that aside, he fact remains your beliefs are more in line with the founding fathers of communism than they are the founding fathers of freedom and liberty.

Interesting that you cherry picked from Washington's speech. This is even more interesting:

Washington rejected an additional sentence, also written by Alexander Hamilton, with a stronger sentiment: "does it [national morality] not require the aid of a generally received and divinely authoritative Religion?"[34]

Obviously he wasn't stating that morality cannot exist without religion.

You are still failing.

Hardly, because he did accept that reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

 

[Ravi]

LOL! Give me an objective quote from a founding father stating that morality was impossible without religion.

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports...In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens...”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“…And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

National morality? WTF is national morality? Collectivism?

Don't be silly. That would the morality of the people as a whole. You know... the same observation that Alexis de Tocqueville made. The one you couldn't bring yourself to read. But putting that aside, he fact remains your beliefs are more in line with the founding fathers of communism than they are the founding fathers of freedom and liberty.

Interesting that you cherry picked from Washington's speech. This is even more interesting:

Washington rejected an additional sentence, also written by Alexander Hamilton, with a stronger sentiment: "does it [national morality] not require the aid of a generally received and divinely authoritative Religion?"[34]

Obviously he wasn't stating that morality cannot exist without religion.

You are still failing.

Hardly, because he did accept that reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

Washington was a Deist. He supported being tolerant of ALL religions and also atheists. He did recognize that religion was a tool to get people to conform, which it is.

 

[ding]

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports...In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens...”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

George Washington
Farewell Address, Sept 17, 1796

“…And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

The Will of the People: Readings in American Democracy (Chicago: Great Books Foundation, 2001), 38.

National morality? WTF is national morality? Collectivism?

Don't be silly. That would the morality of the people as a whole. You know... the same observation that Alexis de Tocqueville made. The one you couldn't bring yourself to read. But putting that aside, he fact remains your beliefs are more in line with the founding fathers of communism than they are the founding fathers of freedom and liberty.

Interesting that you cherry picked from Washington's speech. This is even more interesting:

Washington rejected an additional sentence, also written by Alexander Hamilton, with a stronger sentiment: "does it [national morality] not require the aid of a generally received and divinely authoritative Religion?"[34]

Obviously he wasn't stating that morality cannot exist without religion.

You are still failing.

Hardly, because he did accept that reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

Washington was a Deist. He supported being tolerant of ALL religions and also atheists. He did recognize that religion was a tool to get people to conform, which it is.

And yet he believed that freedom and liberty rested on virtue and morality and that neither could prevail without religion.

Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration of Independence said. "[T]he only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be aid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments. Without religion, I believe that learning does real mischief to the morals and principles of mankind."

 

[ding]

Noah Webster, author of the first American Speller and the first Dictionary said, "[T]he Christian religion, in its purity, is the basis, or rather the source of all genuine freedom in government. . . . and I am persuaded that no civil government of a republican form can exist and be durable in which the principles of that religion have not a controlling influence."

 

[ding]

Gouverneur Morris, Penman and Signer of the Constitution. "[F]or avoiding the extremes of despotism or anarchy . . . the only ground of hope must be on the morals of the people. I believe that religion is the only solid base of morals and that morals are the only possible support of free governments. [T]herefore education should teach the precepts of religion and the duties of man towards God."

 

[Ravi]

National morality? WTF is national morality? Collectivism?

Don't be silly. That would the morality of the people as a whole. You know... the same observation that Alexis de Tocqueville made. The one you couldn't bring yourself to read. But putting that aside, he fact remains your beliefs are more in line with the founding fathers of communism than they are the founding fathers of freedom and liberty.

Interesting that you cherry picked from Washington's speech. This is even more interesting:

Washington rejected an additional sentence, also written by Alexander Hamilton, with a stronger sentiment: "does it [national morality] not require the aid of a generally received and divinely authoritative Religion?"[34]

Obviously he wasn't stating that morality cannot exist without religion.

You are still failing.

Hardly, because he did accept that reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

Washington was a Deist. He supported being tolerant of ALL religions and also atheists. He did recognize that religion was a tool to get people to conform, which it is.

And yet he believed that freedom and liberty rested on virtue and morality and that neither could prevail without religion.

Nationally. Pablum of the masses.

 

[Ravi]

Pope Francis Warns Media Against Infatuation With Scandal, Citing 'Coprophilia'

Pope Francis is calling on those who use and control the media to avoid disinformation and "the sickness of coprophilia" — comparing a love of scandal to an abnormal interest in feces that can also include elements of sexual arousal.
An obsession with scandal can do great harm, Francis said Wednesday, in remarks that also cited people's tendency toward coprophagia (the eating of feces).
"I believe that the media should be very clear, very transparent, and not fall prey — without offence, please — to the sickness of coprophilia, which is always wanting to communicate scandal, to communicate ugly things, even though they may be true," the pope said in an interview with the Belgian Catholic weekly Tertio.

This guy is an idiot. The Cardinals that voted him in should be exiled.
Here is another doosey
"In a culture where each person wants to be bearer of his or her own subjective truth, it becomes difficult for citizens to devise a common plan which transcends individual gain and personal ambitions,"
Ahhh conformity. Awesome.
OR
"it is wrong to equate Islam with violence"

BTW, apparently your story is fake. Read this:

Media go after fake news with a fake story about Pope Francis

 

[TNHarley]

Pope Francis Warns Media Against Infatuation With Scandal, Citing 'Coprophilia'

Pope Francis is calling on those who use and control the media to avoid disinformation and "the sickness of coprophilia" — comparing a love of scandal to an abnormal interest in feces that can also include elements of sexual arousal.
An obsession with scandal can do great harm, Francis said Wednesday, in remarks that also cited people's tendency toward coprophagia (the eating of feces).
"I believe that the media should be very clear, very transparent, and not fall prey — without offence, please — to the sickness of coprophilia, which is always wanting to communicate scandal, to communicate ugly things, even though they may be true," the pope said in an interview with the Belgian Catholic weekly Tertio.

This guy is an idiot. The Cardinals that voted him in should be exiled.
Here is another doosey
"In a culture where each person wants to be bearer of his or her own subjective truth, it becomes difficult for citizens to devise a common plan which transcends individual gain and personal ambitions,"
Ahhh conformity. Awesome.
OR
"it is wrong to equate Islam with violence"

BTW, apparently your story is fake. Read this:

Media go after fake news with a fake story about Pope Francis

Their spin was false. Not what he said.
WTF are you doing reading the Washington Examiners bullshit? Whats next? Breitbart? lol

 

[Ravi]

Pope Francis Warns Media Against Infatuation With Scandal, Citing 'Coprophilia'

Pope Francis is calling on those who use and control the media to avoid disinformation and "the sickness of coprophilia" — comparing a love of scandal to an abnormal interest in feces that can also include elements of sexual arousal.
An obsession with scandal can do great harm, Francis said Wednesday, in remarks that also cited people's tendency toward coprophagia (the eating of feces).
"I believe that the media should be very clear, very transparent, and not fall prey — without offence, please — to the sickness of coprophilia, which is always wanting to communicate scandal, to communicate ugly things, even though they may be true," the pope said in an interview with the Belgian Catholic weekly Tertio.

This guy is an idiot. The Cardinals that voted him in should be exiled.
Here is another doosey
"In a culture where each person wants to be bearer of his or her own subjective truth, it becomes difficult for citizens to devise a common plan which transcends individual gain and personal ambitions,"
Ahhh conformity. Awesome.
OR
"it is wrong to equate Islam with violence"

BTW, apparently your story is fake. Read this:

Media go after fake news with a fake story about Pope Francis

Their spin was false. Not what he said.
WTF are you doing reading the Washington Examiners bullshit? Whats next? Breitbart? lol

You're thinking of the Washington Times. Regardless, what was reported (as in your OP), was not what he said.

 

[there4eyeM]

National morality? WTF is national morality? Collectivism?

Don't be silly. That would the morality of the people as a whole. You know... the same observation that Alexis de Tocqueville made. The one you couldn't bring yourself to read. But putting that aside, he fact remains your beliefs are more in line with the founding fathers of communism than they are the founding fathers of freedom and liberty.

Interesting that you cherry picked from Washington's speech. This is even more interesting:

Washington rejected an additional sentence, also written by Alexander Hamilton, with a stronger sentiment: "does it [national morality] not require the aid of a generally received and divinely authoritative Religion?"[34]

Obviously he wasn't stating that morality cannot exist without religion.

You are still failing.

Hardly, because he did accept that reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

Washington was a Deist. He supported being tolerant of ALL religions and also atheists. He did recognize that religion was a tool to get people to conform, which it is.

And yet he believed that freedom and liberty rested on virtue and morality and that neither could prevail without religion.

Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration of Independence said. "[T]he only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be aid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments. Without religion, I believe that learning does real mischief to the morals and principles of mankind."

So, morals are not innate?

 

[TNHarley]

Pope Francis Warns Media Against Infatuation With Scandal, Citing 'Coprophilia'

Pope Francis is calling on those who use and control the media to avoid disinformation and "the sickness of coprophilia" — comparing a love of scandal to an abnormal interest in feces that can also include elements of sexual arousal.
An obsession with scandal can do great harm, Francis said Wednesday, in remarks that also cited people's tendency toward coprophagia (the eating of feces).
"I believe that the media should be very clear, very transparent, and not fall prey — without offence, please — to the sickness of coprophilia, which is always wanting to communicate scandal, to communicate ugly things, even though they may be true," the pope said in an interview with the Belgian Catholic weekly Tertio.

This guy is an idiot. The Cardinals that voted him in should be exiled.
Here is another doosey
"In a culture where each person wants to be bearer of his or her own subjective truth, it becomes difficult for citizens to devise a common plan which transcends individual gain and personal ambitions,"
Ahhh conformity. Awesome.
OR
"it is wrong to equate Islam with violence"

BTW, apparently your story is fake. Read this:

Media go after fake news with a fake story about Pope Francis

Their spin was false. Not what he said.
WTF are you doing reading the Washington Examiners bullshit? Whats next? Breitbart? lol

You're thinking of the Washington Times. Regardless, what was reported (as in your OP), was not what he said.

No, im thinking of the right wing rag you just posted. The quote was the same Ravi.
From YOUR link : I believe that the media should be very clear, very transparent, and not fall prey – without offence, please – to the sickness of coprophilia, which is always wanting to communicate scandal, to communicate ugly things, even though they may be true
From the OP : "I believe that the media should be very clear, very transparent, and not fall prey — without offence, please — to the sickness of coprophilia, which is always wanting to communicate scandal, to communicate ugly things, even though they may be true,"

 

[Ravi]

Right, he should have said eating shit.

 

[TNHarley]

Right, he should have said eating shit.

Ravi, I clearly stated the spin was false but not the quote.
I will remember you using a right wing nut job source, though

 

[Ravi]

Right, he should have said eating shit.

Ravi, I clearly stated the spin was false but not the quote.
I will remember you using a right wing nut job source, though

Did you in your OP? You called the pope a moron and an idiot based on what was reported he said.