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I have long thought that many Christians were addicted to the use of cat-o'-nine-tails -- either on other people or on themselves.The Lord Jesus Christ also believed in discipline with a cat o' nine tails of sorts used against merchants engaged in trading wares in a church synagogue for excessive profits.Well, that certainly came out of the blue.You're lying when you say "I have long thought".
But then, religious types are always saying things that don't make any sense.
Unlike most Americans, I had something approaching a decent education, and read and translated Latin in school.
I remember when I first read the Stabat Mater of Jacopone da Todi, a mediaeval poet and Franciscan lay-brother. It is a famous Christian hymn, and all too typical of the mental state of Christians down through all the ages.
THE MOTHER STANDS
The weeping mother stands in anguish
Near the Cross on which her son was hanging.
Through her groaning heart, sharing His bitter pain,
The sword has passed....
For the sins of Man, she saw Jesus in torment,
Skin torn by the strokes of whips....
Holy Mother, do the same to me!
Afflict my heart with the bitter wounds of the Crucified One!....
Make me weep with you, mourning the Crucified One,
as long as I may live!
By the Cross, I wish to stand with you,
Sharing your anguish.
Glorious Virgin of all virgins,
Do not be so bitter as to deny my request,
Make me share your grief and pain!....
Make it that I may share death with Christ,
Take part in His anguish, and receive the wounds He received!
Wound me with bitter strokes, make me drunk
with the Cross and the Gore of your Son!....
I find this stuff horrifying and disgusting. It is a combination of necrophilia and pathological sado-masochism, and indicates the kind of diseased mentality which Christianity fosters.
By their fruit ye shall know them!
If the person who wrote that could have known what Christians were going to turn into, perhaps he would have written,
"By their fruitiness shall ye know them!"
.
It's someone's chosen belief surrounding an event (Christmas) that parents tell their children, that is represented in a teaching found through the giving of gifts, the giving of yourself, and is encouraged with "symbols" of a fat man in a red suit who travels the world with a group of flying reindeer. A teaching that adults themselves also take time to demonstrate before their children, showing the importance that's found through various acts of "giving" we all need to show to the world. The central message is STILL being encouraged today in all who take the time away from the world, to personally express it. It's a form of kindness, and selfless sacrifice, that many believe to be much needed in the world today.
If it's not a day that is to be set aside to remind us of this message of "giving", and the need to show compassion to one another, then simply tell your boss you don't believe in all that hogwash, and that you would much rather find a way to work. Why enjoy time away from work to express a tradition, to demonstrate a set of values, you yourself don't really feel is all that important to believe in? Why even teach such values to our children, or openly use "symbols" found in what we read to them, in order to better demonstrate the examples and teachings found in those beliefs?
Because in reality the Christian "values" taught are a minor component of what actually occurs in the Christmas phenom. Sure there is a religious sentiment portrayed by some Christians revolving thruout the Christmas season. 90% of Christmas is only about retail sales. Working hard to afford Chinese plastic crap for your kids isn't any rational value. It is a bad example for kids to believe that one's parents efforts should result in providing worthless garbage to entertain them and validate the media blitz of advertising mesmerising these trinkets. It feeds a mass hysteria of greed and dissapointment for those that get these hypnotic induced treasures and those that do not.
Again, no one is forcing you to participate in something you don't happen to agree with. You can simply choose NOT to subject your kids to the story of Santa, or the bigger moral values of "giving" and "acts of kindness" that others seem to find through such symbolisms and examples. Don't involve them to become active participants in your views of "Chinese plastic crap", or encourage such beliefs through involvement with extended families who do.
You have two options. You can either choose to use that time heavily involved in your own career, as Scrooge always found SOMETHING to keep himself busy, or try to instill better values into your kids. The Salvation Army comes to mind. You can create your own set of traditions and involve your kids in various charities. If they are not of the age to receive cash (as everything is more often found in the form of gift cards these days), make an effort to involve them in a soup kitchen. Who has ever said you must conform to only one set of activities, in order to comply with what others want or expect from you? Get involved with helping the homeless, let your kids see more of what is REALLY important. Engage in activities that makes use of personal talent, "Habitat for Humanity", offer to fix a neighbor's plumbing or fan they have been complaining about over the last six months without cost to them. The honest question is: Are you willing to seek "opportunities" that better illustrate selfless acts of giving and kindness, through your OWN time and ability, or would you much rather just sit and complain about how you see OTHERS choosing to follow after their beliefs? Now the first can become an example towards instilling better values into your kids, while the other is .... well quite frankly, just another represented adaptation of Scrooge.
And you will lose, because forcing people to do that in this country is against the law.
are a dime/dozen. Sheesh. 
I have the right of free speech.Faith is proved by works, not the study of false gods, Mr. 60-minute man.Thier books are already in almost every library in every school. I see no problem in school boards offering an "elective" class in religion covering most religious history. What I do object to is any form of manditory imposition of religious teaching put upon any student ..including "time out" for prayer in the general public curriculum. Using such a "class" as an excuse for Christians to impose thier religion as a bible study or indoctrination and recruiting platform would be crossing the line. If the study was divided equally and presented with as much testing of the study material equally so the student had shown knowledge of all of the religions presented I believe it would be a benefit to any broad education.
Using the platform I offered as a way for Christians to attempt to "prove" how Christianity is BETTER is wrong.
You have no more right to prove your god is the true god and your religion is the true religion in a public school than a muslim.
They can say what they want in their own schools.Say or yammer all you want, the First Amendment is explicit on freedom of religion and speech. Our founders well knew the history of this country when pilgrims from all over Europe came here so they could worship Jesus Christ freely sans government churches eating their livers over minor points. They also were financed by a Jewish man named Haym Solomon. He and his family were never reimbursed for financing the American Revolution, but he earned freedom of religion be extended beyond Christianity to those of Jewish disciplines.Therin lies the "heart and soul" of the problem. Every religion thinks it's "scriptures" take preference over every one elses. Every religion cries literally to the high heavens that thier scriptures are being trampled upon. What the world (ours is the U S A) needs is an unbiased arbitrator that can sort out what is free religious expression and what is invading the rights of others free religious/or not expression and what are the rights of people that are offended by ANY person's or religion's fair and free rights.
I say..keep it in your home/property. Keep it in your place of worship or gathering. I don't care if you have a cross on your front lawn..I don't care if your neighbor has one burning on his.
I think you know better than to tell me what to say.
I will practice my First Amendment privileges whether you like it or not, youngster.
Quick question...............does that freedom extend to Taoists, Buddhists, and those who are of the Hindu religion as well?
Said the spider to the fly.
lol. allie is a hoot. I log-in just top see what nutters/thumpers like her & Katzndogz are up to.
Progressive Christmas: attacking God, Jesus & the cross:
11/29/12
The progressive war on Christmas - and Christianity in general - continues to rage on. The latest example comes from a small town in Kansas that found itself smack dab in the middle of a battle with progressives who were oh-so offended that a cross was on public property! Hear the oblivious local news report and get Glenn’s reaction on radio today.
Kansas town flirts with “progress” and loses traditional values
There is a sign in the town of Buhler, Kansas causing controversy in the news this week. The sign in the small town, described as a town rooted in “small town values”, featured a large cross, representative of much of the towns values. The sign is now being changed following a law suit from the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF).
---
Glenn was referring to the slogan on the sign that on one version reads: “Our second century of progress,” and on another says, “Tradional Values. Progressive Ideas.”
Glenn pointed out that the town is ironically up in arms over a group wanting to remove the cross from the public sign — they don’t understand why.
Well, because it’s a progress organization and they’re pushing their “progressive ideas”.
“You’re eventually going to lose the cross in your seal if your seal has “progressive ideas” in it,” Glenn quipped. “No doubt about it.”
Glenn continued to point out the irony in the situation noting that the communities solution is to move the sign to private property.
“What is the progressive idea? The elimination of private property,” he said. “If you continue with these progressive ideals and ideas, you will lose your private property. Which means you have no place to have your point of view. None.”
The situation with this town’s sign is a great example of what progressivism does to traditional values, Glenn pointed out. The sign mixed the church with progressivism from the get-go.
---
Kansas town flirts with “progress” and loses traditional values – Glenn Beck
As I said, you really would have hated the founders, numan. Project much?"Thou hast said it!"You really would have hated the founders, numan. They were just like us.I have long thought that many Christians were addicted to the use of cat-o'-nine-tails -- either on other people or on themselves.
No, the Founders were much slicker and more evil traitors than you incoherent, uneducated rubes, with a religious bee in your bonnets, could ever be.
If those insurrectionary terrorists of 1776 had failed, then we would be as good as Canada, rather than the satanic terror-state that the USA has turned into.
.
)
"they are always looking for a way to get their philosophy on center stage."Progressive Christmas: attacking God, Jesus & the cross:
11/29/12
The progressive war on Christmas - and Christianity in general - continues to rage on. The latest example comes from a small town in Kansas that found itself smack dab in the middle of a battle with progressives who were oh-so offended that a cross was on public property! Hear the oblivious local news report and get Glenns reaction on radio today.
Kansas town flirts with progress and loses traditional values
There is a sign in the town of Buhler, Kansas causing controversy in the news this week. The sign in the small town, described as a town rooted in small town values, featured a large cross, representative of much of the towns values. The sign is now being changed following a law suit from the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF).
---
Glenn was referring to the slogan on the sign that on one version reads: Our second century of progress, and on another says, Tradional Values. Progressive Ideas.
Glenn pointed out that the town is ironically up in arms over a group wanting to remove the cross from the public sign they dont understand why.
Well, because its a progress organization and theyre pushing their progressive ideas.
Youre eventually going to lose the cross in your seal if your seal has progressive ideas in it, Glenn quipped. No doubt about it.
Glenn continued to point out the irony in the situation noting that the communities solution is to move the sign to private property.
What is the progressive idea? The elimination of private property, he said. If you continue with these progressive ideals and ideas, you will lose your private property. Which means you have no place to have your point of view. None.
The situation with this towns sign is a great example of what progressivism does to traditional values, Glenn pointed out. The sign mixed the church with progressivism from the get-go.
---
Kansas town flirts with progress and loses traditional values Glenn Beck
The problem with religion in general, and Christianity specifically, is they are always looking for a way to get their philosophy on center stage. The homeless guy in the shelter is a typical example. You have to listen to the Bible before you get your meal. Missionarys have been doing this crap for centuries. If Christians were really sincere, they would serve up the food, and say as you left, "Jesus loves you."
One day I was walking past a beggar in Santa Monica, and I gave him some change. He said "God thanks you." I went right down his throat, "I earned that money, and gave it to you. God has nothing to do with it." The guy jumped back.
Christians have brought this on themselves. I get requests all the time from charity. If there is any mention of God or Jesus on the materials, they go straight into the trash. I donate to the non-denominational Feeding America for exactly this reason.
must hate the Enlightenment period. Wonder what happened during that period 
Deism (Listeni/ˈdiː.ɪzəm/[1][2] or /ˈdeɪ.ɪzəm/) is the belief that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of God, accompanied with the rejection of revelation and authority as a source of religious knowledge.[3][4][5][6][7] Deism gained prominence in the 17th and 18th centuries during the Age of Enlightenment—especially in Britain, France, Germany and America—among intellectuals raised as Christians who believed in one god, but found fault with organized religion and could not believe in supernatural events such as miracles, the inerrancy of scriptures, or the Trinity.
In the United States, Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Thomas Jefferson's letters and included in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, and Hugh Williamson. Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.
Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include James Madison, possibly Alexander Hamilton, Ethan Allen,[49] and Thomas Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the USA and Europe).
And you will lose, because forcing people to do that in this country is against the law.
"they are always looking for a way to get their philosophy on center stage."Progressive Christmas: attacking God, Jesus & the cross:
11/29/12
The progressive war on Christmas - and Christianity in general - continues to rage on. The latest example comes from a small town in Kansas that found itself smack dab in the middle of a battle with progressives who were oh-so offended that a cross was on public property! Hear the oblivious local news report and get Glenns reaction on radio today.
Kansas town flirts with progress and loses traditional values
There is a sign in the town of Buhler, Kansas causing controversy in the news this week. The sign in the small town, described as a town rooted in small town values, featured a large cross, representative of much of the towns values. The sign is now being changed following a law suit from the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF).
---
Glenn was referring to the slogan on the sign that on one version reads: Our second century of progress, and on another says, Tradional Values. Progressive Ideas.
Glenn pointed out that the town is ironically up in arms over a group wanting to remove the cross from the public sign they dont understand why.
Well, because its a progress organization and theyre pushing their progressive ideas.
Youre eventually going to lose the cross in your seal if your seal has progressive ideas in it, Glenn quipped. No doubt about it.
Glenn continued to point out the irony in the situation noting that the communities solution is to move the sign to private property.
What is the progressive idea? The elimination of private property, he said. If you continue with these progressive ideals and ideas, you will lose your private property. Which means you have no place to have your point of view. None.
The situation with this towns sign is a great example of what progressivism does to traditional values, Glenn pointed out. The sign mixed the church with progressivism from the get-go.
---
Kansas town flirts with progress and loses traditional values Glenn Beck
The problem with religion in general, and Christianity specifically, is they are always looking for a way to get their philosophy on center stage. The homeless guy in the shelter is a typical example. You have to listen to the Bible before you get your meal. Missionarys have been doing this crap for centuries. If Christians were really sincere, they would serve up the food, and say as you left, "Jesus loves you."
One day I was walking past a beggar in Santa Monica, and I gave him some change. He said "God thanks you." I went right down his throat, "I earned that money, and gave it to you. God has nothing to do with it." The guy jumped back.
Christians have brought this on themselves. I get requests all the time from charity. If there is any mention of God or Jesus on the materials, they go straight into the trash. I donate to the non-denominational Feeding America for exactly this reason.
We don't have time in our church to do door knocking. We're too busy serving the community in small ways, Beach Boy. And some of us work on trying to do the right things that reconcile people to having good lives, too.
Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station; it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official Act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the Universe, who presides in the Councils of Nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that his benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the People of the United States, a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes: and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own; nor those of my fellow-citizens at large, less than either. No People can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand, which conducts the Affairs of men more than the People of the United States. Every step, by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency. And in the important revolution just accomplished in the system of their United Government, the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities, from which the event has resulted, cannot be compared with the means by which most Governments have been established, without some return of pious gratitude along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which the past seem to presage. These reflections, arising out of the present crisis, have forced themselves too strongly on my mind to be suppressed. You will join with me I trust in thinking, that there are none under the influence of which, the proceedings of a new and free Government can more auspiciously commence.
By the article establishing the Executive Department, it is made the duty of the President "to recommend to your consideration, such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient." The circumstances under which I now meet you, will acquit me from entering into that subject, farther than to refer to the Great Constitutional Charter under which you are assembled; and which, in defining your powers, designates the objects to which your attention is to be given. It will be more consistent with those circumstances, and far more congenial with the feelings which actuate me, to substitute, in place of a recommendation of particular measures, the tribute that is due to the talents, the rectitude, and the patriotism which adorn the characters selected to devise and adopt them. In these honorable qualifications, I behold the surest pledges, that as on one side, no local prejudices, or attachments; no seperate views, nor party animosities, will misdirect the comprehensive and equal eye which ought to watch over this great assemblage of communities and interests: so, on another, that the foundations of our National policy will be laid in the pure and immutable principles of private morality; and the pre-eminence of a free Government, be exemplified by all the attributes which can win the affections of its Citizens, and command the respect of the world.
I dwell on this prospect with every satisfaction which an ardent love for my Country can inspire: since there is no truth more thoroughly established, than that there exists in the oeconomy and course of nature, an indissoluble union between virtue and happiness, between duty and advantage, between the genuine maxims of an honest and magnanimous policy, and the solid rewards of public prosperity and felicity: Since we ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven, can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which Heaven itself has ordained: And since the preservation of the sacred fire of liberty, and the destiny of the Republican model of Government, are justly considered as deeply, perhaps as finally staked, on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people.[/QUOTE]
He considered liberty the sacred fire, and that Heaven itself ordained its preservation.
He was a very, very blessed Christian man, full of love for his fellow countrymen, who in turn also loved him very much. It was his love for everyone that made America what it became. The question is, can we keep it, or do we need to do a little house cleaning first?
