The progressive war on Christmas/Christianity

[koshergrl]

So..you maintain that human embryos aren't human....

I maintain that human embryos, with gills and a tail and scarcely any nervous system or brain, are potentially full human beings, but they are not actual full human beings.

My cat is closer to being a full human being than a human embryo is.

Here, I'm using a DIFFERENT source to again point out that embryos are, indeed, human.

No, you are dishonestly playing around with the various and inconsistent dictionary definitions of the word "human".
.

No, I'm using varied scientific sources, all of which specify that a human embryo is HUMAN from conception. I haven't used a dictionary at all, you moron.

 

[t_polkow]

It's interesting that the anti-christian fascists think that if Christians aren't actually being burned at the stake, then they have nothing to complain about and no right to object to people who attempt to remove freedom of religion from them.

People do persecute Christians in this country, and people attempt to remove their right to practice their faith. So we object. So far, this country remains freer than most...but that doesn't mean there aren't people who are willing to pour all their resources into removing our freedoms, and incarcerate us (or worse. That's just what they admit to). In fact in this thread, we have one person calling for Christians to be identified as mentally ill, and another who is calling to force them to practice their religion ONLY behind closed doors.

"calling for Christians to be identified as mentally ill"

No, Fundamentalist Christians, and the day IS coming when fundamentalism WILL be classified by the American Psychiatric Association in the DSM-5 or at least DSM -6 as a mental disorder. The DSM -5 will lower even further the thresholds for many diagnoses, and broadens the definitions of existing mental illnesses.

Although DSM-4 addressed delusions it didn't go far enough. Diagnostic Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision DSM-IV-TR, defined delusions as false beliefs based on incorrect inference about external reality that persist despite the evidence to the contrary and these beliefs .
As we see that Science has debunked the mythical stories found in the christian bible , those who take it literally could under DSM-4 be classified as having mental disorder today.

"calling to force them to practice their religion ONLY behind closed doors

matt 6-6 from the christian bible(NIV)

But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

God is Imaginary - 50 simple proofs

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

So..you maintain that human embryos aren't human....

I maintain that human embryos, with gills and a tail and scarcely any nervous system or brain, are potentially full human beings, but they are not actual full human beings.

My cat is closer to being a full human being than a human embryo is.

Here, I'm using a DIFFERENT source to again point out that embryos are, indeed, human.

No, you are dishonestly playing around with the various and inconsistent dictionary definitions of the word "human".
.

No, I'm using varied scientific sources, all of which specify that a human embryo is HUMAN from conception. I haven't used a dictionary at all, you moron.

There is human hair, human skin, human organs, human embryos...but none of those things are in and of themselves a viable human being.

"Human" is an adjective describing the embryo. It is accurate to say "this is a human embryo," but not necessarily accurate to say that embryo is a human being.

I think that's what numan is trying to say, koshergrl.

 

[koshergrl]

We aren't talking about viability.

But I think the point is made...the morons who claim to be all about *science* are completely clueless. It's nice of you to help them out, but my point is made.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Nothing false about them.

We deal daily with loons telling us we should be imprisoned, denied employment, our children taken from us, and that laws should be changed (or interpreted) to force us to hide our religion.

In other countries, where there is no freedom of religion, we aren't just threatened, jeered at, ridiculed and threatened...we're killed.

I hardly think that someone telling you on a messageboard that your religion is messed up hardly qualifies as persecution.

I'm still waiting to hear about the laws passed against Christianity, or where actual Christians have had their churches torn down and they were jailed for practicing their faith.

People foaming at each other on a messageboard isn't persecution, it's someone expressing their opinion. Get back to us when you have a real example of where the U.S. Government has stopped any Christian church from practicing their beliefs.

I've yet to hear of any laws or any kind of news story where Christians were actually persecuted for their beliefs.

Sorry Always Babbling, aka Kaiser Twit..................but there hasn't been any real persecution of Christians by the government since I was born (at least).

I mean.....................even lunatic fringe churches like Westboro are still allowed to have their beliefs, no matter how screwed up they are.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I maintain that human embryos, with gills and a tail and scarcely any nervous system or brain, are potentially full human beings, but they are not actual full human beings.

My cat is closer to being a full human being than a human embryo is.


No, you are dishonestly playing around with the various and inconsistent dictionary definitions of the word "human".
.

No, I'm using varied scientific sources, all of which specify that a human embryo is HUMAN from conception. I haven't used a dictionary at all, you moron.

There is human hair, human skin, human organs, human embryos...but none of those things are in and of themselves a viable human being.

"Human" is an adjective describing the embryo. It is accurate to say "this is a human embryo," but not necessarily accurate to say that embryo is a human being.

I think that's what numan is trying to say, koshergrl.

An embryo is to a human being what blueprints are to a building. If you follow the blueprints while the building is under construction, you get a building just like what you'd originally designed. If the embryo keeps growing, the DNA will lay out how it's supposed to be built and it will eventually become a human being.

But...................until the building is finished, it's not really a building, but rather one under construction.

Same thing with the embryo. It's still a human under construction until it's born.

Besides.......................were Adam and Eve actually "human" before God breathed the Breath of Life into them? I seem to remember Eve being a rib bone of Adam's before she was "human".

 

[numan]

An embryo is to a human being what blueprints are to a building. If you follow the blueprints while the building is under construction, you get a building just like what you'd originally designed. If the embryo keeps growing, the DNA will lay out how it's supposed to be built and it will eventually become a human being.

But...................until the building is finished, it's not really a building, but rather one under construction.

Same thing with the embryo. It's still a human under construction until it's born.

Thank you, Sailor. I think you have expressed what can be established by science very well.

All these other religious views are mere speculation, and certainly do not deserve to become legal standards.
.

 

[numan]

I hardly think that someone telling you on a messageboard that your religion is messed up hardly qualifies as persecution.

I certainly agree with you, Sailor, but some people clearly have other views.

I would call them religious fanatics, but I am sure that they think of themselves as fighting for Truth, Justice and the Kingdom of God -- or some such folderol.

.

 

[HUGGY]

OK...HERE is where KG is having a problem with honesty. She has been going on and on about the definition of "human". I know..she knows..WE ALL KNOW that what she REALLY is trying to say without coming straight out is that a two celled Zygot in her belief system HAS A SOUL. She knows that a developing pregnancy isn't a fully developed human being. She wants to assign full privilage to the "baby" the instant "god" gave it a soul. She believes that happens when the sperm impregnates the egg.

The REAL argument isn't the age of the child..but if there is or is not something called a soul.

I do not understand the hesitency of the religious to come out and just lay it on the line.

This boo hooing about abortion has nothing to do with trimesters. It's about her belief tha "God" has made this "thing" a human being at conception according to her religion.

She cannot prove the existance of the soul in an unborn baby...she cannot prove the existance of a soul in anyone.

That is what the Christians are afraid to say out loud. It is a discussion they will never have outside thier church. It goes to the core of thier belief system. It is a discussion that proves they are mentally and psychologically challenged.

KG continually scoffs at the mental capacity of atheists. Yet...she has built her own core foundation on nonsense. I would say something mean but honestly I find the whole thing sad.

 

[boilermaker55]

One can see when she resorts to her name calling that she really isn't establishing a very good sound argument.

OK...HERE is where KG is having a problem with honesty. She has been going on and on about the definition of "human". I know..she knows..WE ALL KNOW that what she REALLY is trying to say without coming straight out is that a two celled Zygot in her belief system HAS A SOUL. She knows that a developing pregnancy isn't a fully developed human being. She wants to assign full privilage to the "baby" the instant "god" gave it a soul. She believes that happens when the sperm impregnates the egg.

The REAL argument isn't the age of the child..but if there is or is not something called a soul.

I do not understand the hesitency of the religious to come out and just lay it on the line.

This boo hooing about abortion has nothing to do with trimesters. It's about her belief tha "God" has made this "thing" a human being at conception according to her religion.

She cannot prove the existance of the soul in an unborn baby...she cannot prove the existance of a soul in anyone.

That is what the Christians are afraid to say out loud. It is a discussion they will never have outside thier church. It goes to the core of thier belief system. It is a discussion that proves they are mentally and psychologically challenged.

KG continually scoffs at the mental capacity of atheists. Yet...she has built her own core foundation on nonsense. I would say something mean but honestly I find the whole thing sad.

 

[koshergrl]

Ah, the gang's all here.

As I said, the choicers who are all about the "science" really aren't about the science at all.

And someone telling my religion is "messed up" is not quite the same thing as someone saying that they will bring all their resources to force me to hide my religion.

Two different things.

 

[American_Jihad]

Military surrenders in war on Christian evangelism​

'Department makes reasonable accommodations for all religions'

Published: 05/02/2013
Bob Unruh


The Pentagon announced today that military members who want to talk about their faith with other members have every right to do so, backtracking on a previous warning against “proselytizing,” which it said could be subject to court-martial.

The statement from Lt. Cmdr. Nathan Christensen said the Department of Defense “never and will never single out a particular religious group for persecution or prosecution.”


The Pentagon walked back its statement earlier this week after the Alliance Defending Freedom filed a Freedom of Information Act request for records relating to Pentagon statements on the issue.

“Members of our military should not be denied the very freedoms they fight to defend. Freedom of religion and speech are paramount among those freedoms,” said ADF Legal Counsel Joseph La Rue. “We appreciate the Pentagon’s clarification, but little or no evidence exists of coercive proselytization in the military, so we are still troubled over what motivated the original comments.

...

Read more at Military surrenders in war on Christian evangelism

 

[Agit8r]

OK...HERE is where KG is having a problem with honesty. She has been going on and on about the definition of "human". I know..she knows..WE ALL KNOW that what she REALLY is trying to say without coming straight out is that a two celled Zygot in her belief system HAS A SOUL. She knows that a developing pregnancy isn't a fully developed human being. She wants to assign full privilage to the "baby" the instant "god" gave it a soul. She believes that happens when the sperm impregnates the egg.

The REAL argument isn't the age of the child..but if there is or is not something called a soul.

I do not understand the hesitency of the religious to come out and just lay it on the line.

This boo hooing about abortion has nothing to do with trimesters. It's about her belief tha "God" has made this "thing" a human being at conception according to her religion.

She cannot prove the existance of the soul in an unborn baby...she cannot prove the existance of a soul in anyone.

That is what the Christians are afraid to say out loud. It is a discussion they will never have outside thier church. It goes to the core of thier belief system. It is a discussion that proves they are mentally and psychologically challenged.

KG continually scoffs at the mental capacity of atheists. Yet...she has built her own core foundation on nonsense. I would say something mean but honestly I find the whole thing sad.

Maybe I'm parsing a bit much, but the belief that an embryo is a person itself can't be said to go to the core of the Xtain religion, because it hasn't been around longer than a half century. Just sayin'

 

[koshergrl]

Military surrenders in war on Christian evangelism​

'Department makes reasonable accommodations for all religions'

Published: 05/02/2013
Bob Unruh


The Pentagon announced today that military members who want to talk about their faith with other members have every right to do so, backtracking on a previous warning against “proselytizing,” which it said could be subject to court-martial.

The statement from Lt. Cmdr. Nathan Christensen said the Department of Defense “never and will never single out a particular religious group for persecution or prosecution.”


The Pentagon walked back its statement earlier this week after the Alliance Defending Freedom filed a Freedom of Information Act request for records relating to Pentagon statements on the issue.

“Members of our military should not be denied the very freedoms they fight to defend. Freedom of religion and speech are paramount among those freedoms,” said ADF Legal Counsel Joseph La Rue. “We appreciate the Pentagon’s clarification, but little or no evidence exists of coercive proselytization in the military, so we are still troubled over what motivated the original comments.

...

Read more at Military surrenders in war on Christian evangelism

 

[American_Jihad]

Hypocrites is all I see.

That's what happens when you buy a cheap monitor, you get reflections...

There is no denying that Christianity has been expensive.

Buggy, what cha think about the islamics or do they get the progressive/liberal pass...

 

[HUGGY]

That's what happens when you buy a cheap monitor, you get reflections...

There is no denying that Christianity has been expensive.

Buggy, what cha think about the islamics or do they get the progressive/liberal pass...

I don't think much about Islam. I understand why Muhammed and his older wife started establishing Oasis and safe passage. The Arabic tribes were murdering each other and making the spice trade routes impassable. Muhammed was a salesman that travelled a lot and his wife had a good buisness sense. The genesis of Islam was simply a trade agreement within the nomadic tribes. It was a ceasefire with personal rules that affected the behavior of the signatories. The populations of the warring tribes had developed petty grievances concerning how they lived compared with the other tribes. Rules of conduct were drawn up and agreed to. This foundation of eticate was the beginnings of Islam. Basically most Arabs lived like pigs. Muhammed convinced them to upgrade thier personal standard of living and how they had to treat other Arabs.

The Oasis became holy places to the Arabs because they stood for the peace Muhammed had brought to the region. Trade flourished. If the agreements had flopped Islam would have fallen on it's face. Muhammed became "divine" simply because he made the Arabs get along and they could not deny the prosparity from the spice trade.

The part where Muhammed had his pow wow with god is utter rubbish. Muhammed was a con artist. People wanted to believe he was special so they fell for the claims of god presenting Muhammed with "commandments" hook line and sinker.

Islam is bullshit as is Moses and the tablets and Jesus and his so-called miracles.

One has to keep in context the desperate nature of day to day living back then. It didn't take much to impress those folks..It didn't take much to trick them either.

 

[American_Jihad]

There is no denying that Christianity has been expensive.

Buggy, what cha think about the islamics or do they get the progressive/liberal pass...

I don't think much about Islam. I understand why Muhammed and his older wife started establishing Oasis and safe passage. The Arabic tribes were murdering each other and making the spice trade routes impassable. Muhammed was a salesman that travelled a lot and his wife had a good buisness sense. The genesis of Islam was simply a trade agreement within the nomadic tribes. It was a ceasefire with personal rules that affected the behavior of the signatories. The populations of the warring tribes had developed petty grievances concerning how they lived compared with the other tribes. Rules of conduct were drawn up and agreed to. This foundation of eticate was the beginnings of Islam. Basically most Arabs lived like pigs. Muhammed convinced them to upgrade thier personal standard of living and how they had to treat other Arabs.

The Oasis became holy places to the Arabs because they stood for the peace Muhammed had brought to the region. Trade flourished. If the agreements had flopped Islam would have fallen on it's face. Muhammed became "divine" simply because he made the Arabs get along and they could not deny the prosparity from the spice trade.

The part where Muhammed had his pow wow with god is utter rubbish. Muhammed was a con artist. People wanted to believe he was special so they fell for the claims of god presenting Muhammed with "commandments" hook line and sinker.

Islam is bullshit as is Moses and the tablets and Jesus and his so-called miracles.

One has to keep in context the desperate nature of day to day living back then. It didn't take much to impress those folks..It didn't take much to trick them either.

There is a lot of hot wind on the left tonight don't cha know, next time give me the short version...

 

[HUGGY]

Buggy, what cha think about the islamics or do they get the progressive/liberal pass...

I don't think much about Islam. I understand why Muhammed and his older wife started establishing Oasis and safe passage. The Arabic tribes were murdering each other and making the spice trade routes impassable. Muhammed was a salesman that travelled a lot and his wife had a good buisness sense. The genesis of Islam was simply a trade agreement within the nomadic tribes. It was a ceasefire with personal rules that affected the behavior of the signatories. The populations of the warring tribes had developed petty grievances concerning how they lived compared with the other tribes. Rules of conduct were drawn up and agreed to. This foundation of eticate was the beginnings of Islam. Basically most Arabs lived like pigs. Muhammed convinced them to upgrade thier personal standard of living and how they had to treat other Arabs.

The Oasis became holy places to the Arabs because they stood for the peace Muhammed had brought to the region. Trade flourished. If the agreements had flopped Islam would have fallen on it's face. Muhammed became "divine" simply because he made the Arabs get along and they could not deny the prosparity from the spice trade.

The part where Muhammed had his pow wow with god is utter rubbish. Muhammed was a con artist. People wanted to believe he was special so they fell for the claims of god presenting Muhammed with "commandments" hook line and sinker.

Islam is bullshit as is Moses and the tablets and Jesus and his so-called miracles.

One has to keep in context the desperate nature of day to day living back then. It didn't take much to impress those folks..It didn't take much to trick them either.

There is a lot of hot wind on the left tonight don't cha know, next time give me the short version...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLpfbcXTeo8]Phil Collins - I Dont Care Anymore (Official Music Video) - YouTube[/ame]

You asked for what I think about the muslims and I told you as clearly as I could. I won't waste any "thought" on you in the future as you are simple just an asshole.

 

[American_Jihad]

I don't think much about Islam. I understand why Muhammed and his older wife started establishing Oasis and safe passage. The Arabic tribes were murdering each other and making the spice trade routes impassable. Muhammed was a salesman that travelled a lot and his wife had a good buisness sense. The genesis of Islam was simply a trade agreement within the nomadic tribes. It was a ceasefire with personal rules that affected the behavior of the signatories. The populations of the warring tribes had developed petty grievances concerning how they lived compared with the other tribes. Rules of conduct were drawn up and agreed to. This foundation of eticate was the beginnings of Islam. Basically most Arabs lived like pigs. Muhammed convinced them to upgrade thier personal standard of living and how they had to treat other Arabs.

The Oasis became holy places to the Arabs because they stood for the peace Muhammed had brought to the region. Trade flourished. If the agreements had flopped Islam would have fallen on it's face. Muhammed became "divine" simply because he made the Arabs get along and they could not deny the prosparity from the spice trade.

The part where Muhammed had his pow wow with god is utter rubbish. Muhammed was a con artist. People wanted to believe he was special so they fell for the claims of god presenting Muhammed with "commandments" hook line and sinker.

Islam is bullshit as is Moses and the tablets and Jesus and his so-called miracles.

One has to keep in context the desperate nature of day to day living back then. It didn't take much to impress those folks..It didn't take much to trick them either.

There is a lot of hot wind on the left tonight don't cha know, next time give me the short version...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLpfbcXTeo8]Phil Collins - I Dont Care Anymore (Official Music Video) - YouTube[/ame]

You asked for what I think about the muslims and I told you as clearly as I could. I won't waste any "thought" on you in the future as you are simple just an asshole.

You being from seacattle I could care less, now f/o...

 

[Agit8r]

Military surrenders in war on Christian evangelism​

'Department makes reasonable accommodations for all religions'

Published: 05/02/2013
Bob Unruh


The Pentagon announced today that military members who want to talk about their faith with other members have every right to do so, backtracking on a previous warning against “proselytizing,” which it said could be subject to court-martial.

The statement from Lt. Cmdr. Nathan Christensen said the Department of Defense “never and will never single out a particular religious group for persecution or prosecution.”


The Pentagon walked back its statement earlier this week after the Alliance Defending Freedom filed a Freedom of Information Act request for records relating to Pentagon statements on the issue.

“Members of our military should not be denied the very freedoms they fight to defend. Freedom of religion and speech are paramount among those freedoms,” said ADF Legal Counsel Joseph La Rue. “We appreciate the Pentagon’s clarification, but little or no evidence exists of coercive proselytization in the military, so we are still troubled over what motivated the original comments.

...

Read more at Military surrenders in war on Christian evangelism

"Service members can share their faith (evangelize), but must not force unwanted, intrusive attempts toconvert others of any faith or no faith to one's beliefs (proselytization)."

http://www.adfmedia.org/files/20130502PentagonEmail.pdf

lol. you mean they clarified for those who had flown off the handle about nothing in the first place