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your thread title is a lie.
you claim to be discussing the history of the flag, but you discuss it's beginning and then jump forward almost one hundred years.
how could you jump over it's use by southern units in WWII?
that was a huge part of it's development from a historical battle flag to a symbol of the south.
And somehow, I get the feeling that you have many, many, many books over this very important flag at home.
Are they also cum-stained?
I might make a poll about this.
Now, back to the OP: the facts about the creation and the INTENT of the confederate flags (yes, plural) are, just as rightwinger wrote, amazingly simple.
Just as the facts about Hitler's appropriation of the Hakenkreuz (Swastika) are amazingly simple.
And in both cases, revisionists like you are furiously swimming against the tide.
But facts are facts.
One of the biggest mistakes that the North made following the Civil War was to allow the South to retain any of the remnants and trappings of the Confederacy. This is a mistake that was not repeated at the end of the WWII.
The true purpose of the Confederate flag.........remember this negroes?
provide a link and we can talk about itThis is another non-issued ginned up by trouble makers designed to divide Americans.
Evidently it is an issue
It was an issue enough when someone demanded the confederate flag fly at the statehouse to show those civil rights protestors just how SC really feels
Why did you leave out the flying of the confederate battle flag during wwii by southern troops and units?
provide a link and we can talk about itThis is another non-issued ginned up by trouble makers designed to divide Americans.
Evidently it is an issue
It was an issue enough when someone demanded the confederate flag fly at the statehouse to show those civil rights protestors just how SC really feels
Why did you leave out the flying of the confederate battle flag during wwii by southern troops and units?
Are you serious?
fine.
Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
"During the first half of the 20th century, the Confederate flag enjoyed renewed popularity. During World War II some U.S. military units with Southern nicknames, or made up largely of Southerners, made the flag their unofficial emblem. The USS Columbia flew a Confederate Navy Ensign as a battle flag throughout combat in the South Pacific in World War II. This was done in honor of Columbia, the ship's namesake and the capital city of South Carolina, the first state to secede from the Union. Some soldiers carried Confederate flags into battle. After the Battle of Okinawa a Confederate flag was raised over Shuri Castle by a Marine from the self-styled "Rebel Company" (Company A of the 1st Battalion, 5th Marines). It was visible for miles and was taken down after three days on the orders of General Simon B. Buckner, Jr. (son of Confederate general Simon Buckner, Sr.), who stated that it was inappropriate as "Americans from all over are involved in this battle". It was replaced with the regulation, 48-star flag of the United States.[33] By the end of World War II, the use of the Confederate flag in the military was rare"
Why did you leave out the flying of the confederate battle flag during wwii by southern troops and units?
What message do you think they were trying to send with those flags?
provide a link and we can talk about itThis is another non-issued ginned up by trouble makers designed to divide Americans.
Evidently it is an issue
It was an issue enough when someone demanded the confederate flag fly at the statehouse to show those civil rights protestors just how SC really feels
Why did you leave out the flying of the confederate battle flag during wwii by southern troops and units?
Are you serious?
fine.
Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
"During the first half of the 20th century, the Confederate flag enjoyed renewed popularity. During World War II some U.S. military units with Southern nicknames, or made up largely of Southerners, made the flag their unofficial emblem. The USS Columbia flew a Confederate Navy Ensign as a battle flag throughout combat in the South Pacific in World War II. This was done in honor of Columbia, the ship's namesake and the capital city of South Carolina, the first state to secede from the Union. Some soldiers carried Confederate flags into battle. After the Battle of Okinawa a Confederate flag was raised over Shuri Castle by a Marine from the self-styled "Rebel Company" (Company A of the 1st Battalion, 5th Marines). It was visible for miles and was taken down after three days on the orders of General Simon B. Buckner, Jr. (son of Confederate general Simon Buckner, Sr.), who stated that it was inappropriate as "Americans from all over are involved in this battle". It was replaced with the regulation, 48-star flag of the United States.[33] By the end of World War II, the use of the Confederate flag in the military was rare"
Why did you leave out the flying of the confederate battle flag during wwii by southern troops and units?
What message do you think they were trying to send with those flags?
Again....no black soldiers were asked their opinion
Is the point you are trying to make...."We used to be able to use it to celebrate our subjugation of blacks....why can't we now?"
After those soldiers returned from WWII, that flag became a symbol of the KKK. It was used as a reminder of the proper place for the negro
When Civil Rights put an end to segregation, southern states began to resurrect the confederate flag as a symbol that they still support segregation from the "negroes"
Why are you still making that claim? You still haven't backed it up. Some southern boys pulled out some confederate flags a couple of times and perhaps only once in WWII. The only photo of it being used is of a soldier tying a small flag to a tree branch at Okinawa. No unit ever fought under that flag.This is another non-issued ginned up by trouble makers designed to divide Americans.
Evidently it is an issue
It was an issue enough when someone demanded the confederate flag fly at the statehouse to show those civil rights protestors just how SC really feels
Why did you leave out the flying of the confederate battle flag during wwii by southern troops and units?
i told you you could find some stuff on wikepedia.
the uss columbia fought under the flag, and the flag was raised over shuri castle by "Rebel company" after teh battle of okinawa.
why do you think they called themselves "rebel company"?
so you think they were planning on "rebelling"?
provide a link and we can talk about itEvidently it is an issue
It was an issue enough when someone demanded the confederate flag fly at the statehouse to show those civil rights protestors just how SC really feels
Why did you leave out the flying of the confederate battle flag during wwii by southern troops and units?
Are you serious?
fine.
Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
"During the first half of the 20th century, the Confederate flag enjoyed renewed popularity. During World War II some U.S. military units with Southern nicknames, or made up largely of Southerners, made the flag their unofficial emblem. The USS Columbia flew a Confederate Navy Ensign as a battle flag throughout combat in the South Pacific in World War II. This was done in honor of Columbia, the ship's namesake and the capital city of South Carolina, the first state to secede from the Union. Some soldiers carried Confederate flags into battle. After the Battle of Okinawa a Confederate flag was raised over Shuri Castle by a Marine from the self-styled "Rebel Company" (Company A of the 1st Battalion, 5th Marines). It was visible for miles and was taken down after three days on the orders of General Simon B. Buckner, Jr. (son of Confederate general Simon Buckner, Sr.), who stated that it was inappropriate as "Americans from all over are involved in this battle". It was replaced with the regulation, 48-star flag of the United States.[33] By the end of World War II, the use of the Confederate flag in the military was rare"
Why did you leave out the flying of the confederate battle flag during wwii by southern troops and units?
What message do you think they were trying to send with those flags?
Again....no black soldiers were asked their opinion
Is the point you are trying to make...."We used to be able to use it to celebrate our subjugation of blacks....why can't we now?"
After those soldiers returned from WWII, that flag became a symbol of the KKK. It was used as a reminder of the proper place for the negro
When Civil Rights put an end to segregation, southern states began to resurrect the confederate flag as a symbol that they still support segregation from the "negroes"
your answer does not explain why you left it out.
your answer does not explain why they were flying it. they did not raise the flag over a captured castle to send a message to blacks.
by the time of wwii, the civil war was fading from living memory. the soldiers in question were the great grandchildren of the soldiers who fought in that war.
they were expressing regional pride, as part of a the greater whole of the usa.
the grandchildren of the union soldiers who fought along side them knew that.
i have seen no evidence that anyone was bothered by this display at that time, or at any time after that, until very recently as demonstrated by the dukes of hazzard nationwide acceptance.
Those quotes are true, but of course fail to inform and are designed to deceive. Are you deceived?
Those quotes are true, but of course fail to inform and are designed to deceive. Are you deceived?
Lincoln said words very similar to those by Stephens, but you might not know that if you attended a state run school and failed to educate yourself after completing your statist schooling.
Why are you still making that claim? You still haven't backed it up. Some southern boys pulled out some confederate flags a couple of times and perhaps only once in WWII. The only photo of it being used is of a soldier tying a small flag to a tree branch at Okinawa. No unit ever fought under that flag.This is another non-issued ginned up by trouble makers designed to divide Americans.
Evidently it is an issue
It was an issue enough when someone demanded the confederate flag fly at the statehouse to show those civil rights protestors just how SC really feels
Why did you leave out the flying of the confederate battle flag during wwii by southern troops and units?
i told you you could find some stuff on wikepedia.
the uss columbia fought under the flag, and the flag was raised over shuri castle by "Rebel company" after teh battle of okinawa.
why do you think they called themselves "rebel company"?
so you think they were planning on "rebelling"?
Those are anecdotal examples. The use was not authorized or official. In the case of Shuri Castle my reading is that they were ordered to take it down. There is no record of the USS Columbia CL 56 being authorized to fly the flag, although it is easy to believe that the Navy turned a blind eye since it was named after Columbia, SC.
Telling someone to go find something at Wikipedia is bullshit. There are numerous articles at Wikipedia on this topic. Don't expect people to just believe your claims. Your the guy that doesn't know Kodachome was invented in the '30's and Polaroid color instamatic cameras could be bought in the early 60's.
What is commonly referred to as the "Confederate Flag" is really the flag used by some militias organized by the briefly-lived Confederate state government of Tennessee (Though a squarer version was used later by the army of Northern Virginia).
The real flag of the CSA looks just like the present-day flag of Georgia, but without the Seal of Georgia.
View attachment 42965
It is worth noting the irony that the same Confederate government in Tennessee passed a law to confiscate privately owned firearms, in order to further their war effort.
Confederate Vice-President Alexander Stephens,even as he explained in clear language that his government’s “foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition.” Apparently some would have us ignore his plainly spoken assurance that:
The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution. African slavery as it exists amongst us is the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away…Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error.
Far from an afterthought, overshadowed by larger ruminations on taxes or trade policy, Stephens took great pains to distinguish the centrality of racism and slavery in the South, from that of all past governmental systems, including the United States:
This, our newer Government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth…Those at the North…assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights, with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just; but their premises being wrong, their whole argument fails.
And far from a one-off anomaly, Stephens repeated the arguments from his “cornerstone” speech a month later when speaking to the Virginia secession convention. Prior to his address, the Virginia delegates had rejected secession by a 2:1 margin, before finally reversing course and voting to leave the union. Stephens was dispatched so as to buttress that choice and make the case for why voters in the state should ratify their lawmakers’ decision in an upcoming plebiscite. In doing so, Stephens dug deeply into his bag of incendiary and racist rhetoric to affect the outcome. During his speech he articulated the principle of white supremacy as central to the ideology of the Confederate government:
As a race, the African is inferior to the white man. Subordination to the white man is his normal condition. He is not equal by nature, and cannot be made so by human laws or human institutions. Our system, therefore, so far as regards this inferior race, rests upon this great immutable law of nature. It is founded not upon wrong or injustice, but upon the eternal fitness of things. Hence, its harmonious working for the benefit and advantage of both…The great truth, I repeat, upon which our system rests, is the inferiority of the African. The enemies of our institutions ignore this truth. They set out with the assumption that the races are equal…hence, so much misapplied sympathy for fancied wrongs and sufferings. These wrongs and sufferings exist only in their heated imaginations. There can be no wrong where there is no violation of nature’s laws…It is the fanatics of the North, who are warring against the decrees of God Almighty, in their attempts to make things equal which he made unequal.
One wonders, exactly how many times does the Vice-President of a Government have to say the same thing regarding his administration’s philosophy (and that of his “nation”), each time without correction or censure from his superiors or governmental colleagues, before we believe him? And when that Vice-President himself insists that other issues like trade tariffs had already been adequately resolved to the satisfaction of the southern states—as he did in his November 14, 1860 address to the Georgia legislature—who but a liar or a fool can continue to insist that it was matters such as this that animated the Confederate cause?
Tim Wise Heritage of Hate Dylann Roof White Supremacy and the Truth About the Confederacy
You are misrepresenting the meaning of "fighting under...". A company of soldiers or more accurately, an individual or group of soldiers pulling out a flag and displaying it on the battlefield after the battle is not anything like fighting under the banner of flag.Why are you still making that claim? You still haven't backed it up. Some southern boys pulled out some confederate flags a couple of times and perhaps only once in WWII. The only photo of it being used is of a soldier tying a small flag to a tree branch at Okinawa. No unit ever fought under that flag.Evidently it is an issue
It was an issue enough when someone demanded the confederate flag fly at the statehouse to show those civil rights protestors just how SC really feels
Why did you leave out the flying of the confederate battle flag during wwii by southern troops and units?
i told you you could find some stuff on wikepedia.
the uss columbia fought under the flag, and the flag was raised over shuri castle by "Rebel company" after teh battle of okinawa.
why do you think they called themselves "rebel company"?
so you think they were planning on "rebelling"?
Those are anecdotal examples. The use was not authorized or official. In the case of Shuri Castle my reading is that they were ordered to take it down. There is no record of the USS Columbia CL 56 being authorized to fly the flag, although it is easy to believe that the Navy turned a blind eye since it was named after Columbia, SC.
Telling someone to go find something at Wikipedia is bullshit. There are numerous articles at Wikipedia on this topic. Don't expect people to just believe your claims. Your the guy that doesn't know Kodachome was invented in the '30's and Polaroid color instamatic cameras could be bought in the early 60's.
lol!
it's use was not authorized or official?
that's your answer?
it happened. some american units fought under the confederate battle flag as i said.
it is part of the 20th rise in popularity of hte confederate battle flag.
the soldiers at shuri castle were ordered to take it down, but not because it was racist, or treasonous, but because soldiers from all over the us took part in the battle..
the man that ordered it down was the son of a confederate general.
Confederate Vice-President Alexander Stephens,even as he explained in clear language that his government’s “foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition.” Apparently some would have us ignore his plainly spoken assurance that:
The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution. African slavery as it exists amongst us is the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away…Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error.
Far from an afterthought, overshadowed by larger ruminations on taxes or trade policy, Stephens took great pains to distinguish the centrality of racism and slavery in the South, from that of all past governmental systems, including the United States:
This, our newer Government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth…Those at the North…assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights, with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just; but their premises being wrong, their whole argument fails.
And far from a one-off anomaly, Stephens repeated the arguments from his “cornerstone” speech a month later when speaking to the Virginia secession convention. Prior to his address, the Virginia delegates had rejected secession by a 2:1 margin, before finally reversing course and voting to leave the union. Stephens was dispatched so as to buttress that choice and make the case for why voters in the state should ratify their lawmakers’ decision in an upcoming plebiscite. In doing so, Stephens dug deeply into his bag of incendiary and racist rhetoric to affect the outcome. During his speech he articulated the principle of white supremacy as central to the ideology of the Confederate government:
As a race, the African is inferior to the white man. Subordination to the white man is his normal condition. He is not equal by nature, and cannot be made so by human laws or human institutions. Our system, therefore, so far as regards this inferior race, rests upon this great immutable law of nature. It is founded not upon wrong or injustice, but upon the eternal fitness of things. Hence, its harmonious working for the benefit and advantage of both…The great truth, I repeat, upon which our system rests, is the inferiority of the African. The enemies of our institutions ignore this truth. They set out with the assumption that the races are equal…hence, so much misapplied sympathy for fancied wrongs and sufferings. These wrongs and sufferings exist only in their heated imaginations. There can be no wrong where there is no violation of nature’s laws…It is the fanatics of the North, who are warring against the decrees of God Almighty, in their attempts to make things equal which he made unequal.
One wonders, exactly how many times does the Vice-President of a Government have to say the same thing regarding his administration’s philosophy (and that of his “nation”), each time without correction or censure from his superiors or governmental colleagues, before we believe him? And when that Vice-President himself insists that other issues like trade tariffs had already been adequately resolved to the satisfaction of the southern states—as he did in his November 14, 1860 address to the Georgia legislature—who but a liar or a fool can continue to insist that it was matters such as this that animated the Confederate cause?
Tim Wise Heritage of Hate Dylann Roof White Supremacy and the Truth About the Confederacy
jeez dude, it's the 21st century. what's with this whining about the 19th?
No it wasn't.your thread title is a lie.
you claim to be discussing the history of the flag, but you discuss it's beginning and then jump forward almost one hundred years.
how could you jump over it's use by southern units in WWII?
that was a huge part of it's development from a historical battle flag to a symbol of the south.
Currently championed by cons.It is a democrat flag that represent all the evil democrats do. Period and end of story.
It is a democrat flag that represent all the evil democrats do. Period and end of story.
