The reason Democrats are targeting "assault" rifles

[2aguy]

What a stupid question.

No...it is an accurate question.......

For example...in Britain...

A woman wants to have a gun to prevent being kidnapped, raped, tortured and murdered........according to the British police, this is not a valid reason to own a gun, let alone carry it in public.

A member of the House of Lords wants to take his cronies out to one of his private estates to do a little bird hunting......according to the British police, this is a valid reason to own a gun.

This is what you support, you fascist asshat....

 

[Flash]

Like you just said the Army adopted the M-16 which had full auto capability. Do you know any AR-15 that had that capability? In any case your point is moot. The .223 AKA 5.56mm is by no means an especially deadly round. The bullet itself is small but high velocity and tends to deflect wildly or just come apart on striking even light vegetation and there was lots of vegetation in Vietnam. That round is also bad about wind drift. I carried the M-16A1 in Vietnam and was not especially impressed with it. I would have gratefully and immediately swapped for a good 12Ga. I knew guys who preferred to carry captured AK-47s even with the increased likelihood of friendly fire.

When I first got to Vietnam in 1967 my detachment was issued M-14s.

A few weeks later we were issued the M-16-A1s.

I was impressed with it.

We very seldom saw who the hell we were shooting at. Most often sound or flashes or movement. The "spray and pray" F-A was a good thing to have. Never had a problem with it not functioning.

Nowadays I have almost 30 ARs and one M-16. However, if the zombies came tonight I would probably chose my Colt 6920 semi auto over my Colt 601 full auto. The reason is because in a SHTF scenario it is good to conserve ammo. You eat up a lot of ammo real quick on F-A.

My son was a Cav Scout in Iraq. I asked him if he ever used the burst function on his M-4. He said no. The reason is that his squad had two M-249s and that is what was used to put out suppressing fire. Sometimes they carried a M-240. Much better machine guns than the Hog we carried in Vietnam.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Ah yes, the good old slippery slope fallacy. Again, this is really simple so pay attention. The drive to ban the assault weapon is not an attempt to stop crime or even the use of guns in crimes. It is merely an attempt to mitigate the damage from mass shootings, and perhaps cut down on their frequency.

Really.
See below.
Demonstrate how a ban on 'assault weapons' will have --any-- effect on mass shootings.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

When I first got to Vietnam in 1967 …
Nowadays I have almost 30 ARs and one M-16. However, if the zombies came tonight I would probably chose my Colt 6920 semi auto over my Colt 601 full auto. The reason is …

With all respect for your sacrifices in Vietnam and obvious knowledge of these firearms for use in warfare …

I wonder if you can you give us ordinary “city folks” some insight into why you have an armory of “almost 30 ARs and one M-16,” plus other semi-automatic and apparently at least one fully automatic weapon. I assume you were joking about the “zombies” coming for you, and do not suffer PTST.

I ask seriously. I guess / hope your arms cache is legal, is carefully stored, and not likely to be stolen. Perhaps you live in a rural area? Are you preparing for “civil war”? Are you part of a militia? Are you the head of a big family living in an area surrounded by criminal drug gangs? Do you hunt? Do you often use many different weapons for target practice with friends?

I have one rifle and one revolver (and a carry license), and my brother is an avid hunter, but neither of us ever felt the urge to assemble such an arsenal. I ask these personal questions out of general curiosity only. No need to reply if you would rather not.

 

[2aguy]

With all respect for your sacrifices in Vietnam and obvious knowledge of these firearms for use in warfare …

I wonder if you can you give us ordinary “city folks” some insight into why you have an armory of “almost 30 ARs and one M-16,” plus other semi-automatic and apparently at least one fully automatic weapon. I assume you were joking about the “zombies” coming for you, and do not suffer PTST.

I ask seriously. I guess / hope your arms cache is legal, is carefully stored, and not likely to be stolen. Perhaps you live in a rural area? Are you preparing for “civil war”? Are you part of a militia? A you the head of a big family living in an area surrounded by hostile gangs? Do you hunt? Do you often use many different weapons for target practice with friends?

I have one rifle and one revolver (and a carry license), and my brother is an avid hunter, but neither of us ever felt the urge to assemble such an arsenal. I ask these personal questions out of general curiosity only. No need to reply if you would rather not.

Some people collect Star Wars Figures or Classic cars....he collects guns...

So?

He doesn't use them for crime, so it is none of your fucking business......

 

[9thIDdoc]

Sure do. I qualified in Basic Training on one, the AR-15 Model 601, later to be known as the M-16A1. Just like you qualified on one, the Colt Model AR-15 602, also known as the M-16A2. Both were full auto.

Are you trying to tell me that the M-16A4 isn't an assault rifle since it can't be used in full auto (3 shot burst only)? The normal Grunt should NEVER have a full auto anything. The 11th commandment comes into play. Thou shalt not fire on full auto lest you run out of ammo lest you die. There isn't enough difference between the performance of the M-16A4 and the AR-15 to even worry about. If you ever fired an A4, you know that the first round hits dead center while the 2nd round is slightly off and the 3 round is a clear miss. Even in the 601 and 602 the first few shots in full auto were misses after the first round until it got stabilized. The spray and pray looked good in the movies but had little to do with reality. That's what the M-60 was there for.

If you carried a M-16A1 then you were actually carrying a restamped AR-15 Model 601 left over from the USAF days. Here is a test. Without looking it up and using your own memory, what shape was the handle on the cocking handle? Simple test. It surprised me when I noticed that years after I retired. I thought like you do. Just tell me the shape without researching it.

I don't know or care what Zoomies played with. The first M-16s the Army got were a disaster and god a lot of good guys killed because the government cut corners and didn't want to pay for the chromed chambers that they were tested with and left them without. They jamed; AK's almost never did. The m-16A1s came with all the bells and whistles which cured most of the problems. I (thankfully) never had a jam in combat. But I would have preferred the M-14 I trained with in basic. I have never fired an m-16A4 and know nothing about it. I qualified "Expert" several times with the M-16A1 and once firing the .22LR. I also used the M-79, the M60, the M2 .50Cal. machine gun. and the .45 Cal. 1911A1 pistol (doesn't compete well with enemy machine guns). So what weapons have you made use of in combat?

"The normal Grunt should NEVER have a full auto anything."

Ever hear of of machineguns? Or that they are used by Grunts to good effect?

 

[Flash]

With all respect for your sacrifices in Vietnam and obvious knowledge of these firearms for use in warfare …

I wonder if you can you give us ordinary “city folks” some insight into why you have an armory of “almost 30 ARs and one M-16,” plus other semi-automatic and apparently at least one fully automatic weapon. I assume you were joking about the “zombies” coming for you, and do not suffer PTST.

I ask seriously. I guess / hope your arms cache is legal, is carefully stored, and not likely to be stolen. Perhaps you live in a rural area? Are you preparing for “civil war”? Are you part of a militia? Are you the head of a big family living in an area surrounded by criminal drug gangs? Do you hunt? Do you often use many different weapons for target practice with friends?

I have one rifle and one revolver (and a carry license), and my brother is an avid hunter, but neither of us ever felt the urge to assemble such an arsenal. I ask these personal questions out of general curiosity only. No need to reply if you would rather not.

I enjoy building, collecting and shooting them.

Firearms is my main hobby. I am also a certified firearms instructor and range officer.

Yes, I was joking about zombies.

These are the only zombies we have to worry about:

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

He doesn't use them for crime, so it is none of your fucking business......

The question wasn’t addressed to you. I’m sure Flash can speak for himself.

Re. The reason Democrats are targeting "assault" rifles

 

[2aguy]

The question wasn’t addressed to you. I’m sure Flash can speak for himself.

Re. The reason Democrats are targeting "assault" rifles

Public thread doofus......

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

I enjoy building, collecting and shooting them.

Firearms is my main hobby. I am also a certified firearms instructor and range officer.

Yes, I was joking about zombies.

These are the only zombies we have to worry about:

Thanks Flash. A fine and welcome answer. Very amusing video too!

 

[Vrenn]

I don't know or care what Zoomies played with. The first M-16s the Army got were a disaster and god a lot of good guys killed because the government cut corners and didn't want to pay for the chromed chambers that they were tested with and left them without. They jamed; AK's almost never did. The m-16A1s came with all the bells and whistles which cured most of the problems. I (thankfully) never had a jam in combat. But I would have preferred the M-14 I trained with in basic. I have never fired an m-16A4 and know nothing about it. I qualified "Expert" several times with the M-16A1 and once firing the .22LR. I also used the M-79, the M60, the M2 .50Cal. machine gun. and the .45 Cal. 1911A1 pistol (doesn't compete well with enemy machine guns). So what weapons have you made use of in combat?

"The normal Grunt should NEVER have a full auto anything."

Ever hear of of machineguns? Or that they are used by Grunts to good effect?

I am still waiting to hear from you about the shape of the charging handle on your M-16. Until then, we have nothing to discuss.

 

[BULLDOG]

No...it is an accurate question.......

For example...in Britain...

A woman wants to have a gun to prevent being kidnapped, raped, tortured and murdered........according to the British police, this is not a valid reason to own a gun, let alone carry it in public.

A member of the House of Lords wants to take his cronies out to one of his private estates to do a little bird hunting......according to the British police, this is a valid reason to own a gun.

This is what you support, you fascist asshat....

I hope nothing I said gave you the impression that anyone in Great Britian cares what I think about their gun laws, or that I have had anything to do with the choices they made. dumb ass.

 

[9thIDdoc]

I am still waiting to hear from you about the shape of the charging handle on your M-16. Until then, we have nothing to discuss.

A"T" shaped handle at the rear of the action connects to a rod that is used to retract the bolt against spring pressure and locks it to the rear. Now what weapons have you actually used in combat?

 

[Winston]

You're pointing to Hitler and saying he wasn't that bad a guy. Try to keep up.

Yeah, not really.

How the Nazis Used Gun Control

Your article is from the National Review, so it's bullshit. But I got to ask, some Republicans have made the claim that they don't want to attack the second amendment, they just want to make sure that guns don't fall into the hands of people that are dangerous, or could be dangerous. Is that not precisely what Hitler did? He didn't take away all the guns, he only took away the guns from people he considered "dangerous".

 

[Vrenn]

A"T" shaped handle at the rear of the action connects to a rod that is used to retract the bolt against spring pressure and locks it to the rear. Now what weapons have you actually used in combat?

The one I used wasn't a T. It was a triangle. And that was the only difference between the 601 and the 602 outside of the model number and the stamping. Well, that and the chromium is more on the 601, that is. And I told you to do it from memory. You didn't. You googled it.

As for weapons in Combat, I primarily used the AR-15 Model 601 which was used to keep everyone off the M-60 which did the bulk of the killing. Okay, I am waiting for you to play your Gotcha now.

 

[Winston]

Ignorance must be bliss, eh? If other firearms can be used more effectively than "assault" rifles then banning assault weapons makes . . . let us hear it, in your own words . . . zero sense. I love it when a fool publicly identifies himself. Keep up the good work.

Not banning assault rifles makes zero sense. They provide no tactical advantage for normal use, rather it is self-defense, and certainly not for hunting. Again, several threads, literally dozens of participants, and not a single one wants to take on the cost-benefit analysis of continuing to have legal assault rifles. One can easily substitute a legal arm to replace that AR-15, that provides little advantage. But the cost has continued to climb, and we seem to pay it now every single week with another mass shooting event where that AR-15 is used. Nope, no argument instead we get.

HITLER, HITLER, HITLER.

Want to take all the arms away.

Communist.

I mean you guys are stupid. Knuckle dragging idiots that couldn't put a real argument together if your life depended on it. Your obsession with the AR-15 brings you to just about the same level as those mentally ill people that stroll on to an elementary school campus and start shooting. In fact, you guys are just one bad day away from doing the very same thing. That is how sick you are.

 

[Flash]

 

[Winston]

Moron........the weapon doesn't matter when they are used at the distance of a classroom against young children.....the only reason they used the AR-15 is because assholes like you have given the rifle a reputation that draws them to the gun.........these killers could have done just as much killing with shotguns or pistols.....as actual mass public shootings have shown....

It isn't the gun, you moron.....it is Time. The time the killer has unmolested to shoot unarmed people.......the sooner someone is shooting back at the killer, the sooner the killer stops murdering innocent people and commits suicide, runs away or surrenders....

Actual police doctrine is supposed to be entering immediately, shouting that they are police....this pushes the killer into committing suicide, surrendering or running away.....again, stopping them from shooting unarmed people....

Virginia Tech shooting....32 killed..... 2 pistols

Luby's Cafe shooting.....26 killed....2 pistols

Russian polytechnic shooting....20 killed, 70 wounded, 5 shot, pump action shotgun....

You are an idiot.

A mentally disturbed 18 year old can stroll into a gun shop in Texas and purchase two AR-15's. That is a fawking problem. Your solution to the problem--well, let's just make sure we can get a "good guy with a gun", to him quick after he starts KILLING CHILDREN. And yet, in this case, we had dozens of "good guys with a gun" on the scene, and it took them an hour to work up enough nerve to breech the door.

If we have learned anything from this it is that the good guy with a gun concept falls flat on it's face, because in order for the good guy with a gun to be effective he has to have a set of balls. Most good guys with guns, those that carry in public, don't have a set of balls, that is why they carry the gun.

 

[Winston]

Hey...dumb fuck....did banning the "Tommy Gun," stop the mob from using those guns? You really are stupid....

Well I am interested to know the last time a functioning automatic Tommy gun was used in a crime.

 

[2aguy]

A mentally disturbed 18 year old can stroll into a gun shop in Texas and purchase two AR-15's. That is a fawking problem. Your solution to the problem--well, let's just make sure we can get a "good guy with a gun", to him quick after he starts KILLING CHILDREN. And yet, in this case, we had dozens of "good guys with a gun" on the scene, and it took them an hour to work up enough nerve to breech the door.

If we have learned anything from this it is that the good guy with a gun concept falls flat on it's face, because in order for the good guy with a gun to be effective he has to have a set of balls. Most good guys with guns, those that carry in public, don't have a set of balls, that is why they carry the gun.

Yes...it is a problem because of his family, his friends, his school, the local police knew he was batshit crazy.....the sack filled with tortured and dead cats that he carried around was the first clue, the threats of raping girls he posted to on the internet was another, as was the facial cutting, the various fights at school, the domestic violence with police showing up, and shooting people with a BB gun which is an actual crime and would have allowed the police to arrest him..........and they didn't do anything to deal with him......

That isn't the problem of any normal gun owner, it isn't the problem of the gun store that ran a full, federally mandated background check...but because all those other people failed to intervene with him...he didn't have a criminal record, or a mental health comittment, either of which would have popped on his background check.



Let's see....you dumb ass.......you had lots of police standing outside the school...government agents....who did nothing....for upwards of 90 minutes...violating all known protocols for dealing with an active shooter in a school......

But you don't want someone in the building, a teacher, and administrator, support staff....to have a gun...a gun that likely would have kept him from attacking in the first place, a gun that might have kept him from killing those kids and teachers....

The government failed.......remember that dipshit.......the government that you want to be the only ones with the guns failed......

Meanwhile, you idiot......in West Virginia, the same week....a woman with a concealed carry gun shot and killed another mass public shooter who was also armed with an AR-15 rifle...

Number of killed when the good guy with the gun shot the mass public shooter?

0

You dumb ass...

CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) — A woman in West Virginia fatally shot a man who began firing an AR-15-style rifle into a crowd of people that had gathered for a party, authorities said.

Dennis Butler, 37, was killed Wednesday night after he pulled out the rifle and began shooting at dozens of people attending the birthday-graduation party outside an apartment complex in the city of Charleston, police said in a statement.

The woman, who was attending the party, drew a pistol and fired, killing Butler, the statement said.

No one at the party was injured.

"Instead of running from the threat, she engaged with the threat and saved several lives last night," Chief of Detectives Tony Hazelett told news outlets Thursday.

Woman legally carrying gun kills man who shot into crowd, police say

CHARLESTON, W. Va. (AP) — A woman in West Virginia fatally shot a man who began firing an AR-15-style rifle into a crowd of people that had gathered for a party, authorities said. Dennis Butler, 37, was killed Wednesday night after he pulled out the rifle and began shooting at dozens of people...

wpde.com

Actual experience, actual training shows that the key to saving lives in a mass public shooting event is to get someone shooting back at the attacker.....this forces them...

1) to stop fucking shooting innocent people in order to deal with the good guy shooting at him or them....

2) The good guy approaching or attacking the guy, besides doing #1......results in suicide, running away or surrender by the attacker...rarely do they actually fight back...

Soooo...you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.