The Right To Bear Arms

[Brain357]

Anti-gun loons are only interested in making it harder for the law abiding to exercise their right to self-defense.
They have no other agenda.

No they are interested in making it harder for criminals to get guns. Often they happen to be the same given how many comcealed carry holders turn criminal. Whether their efforts are effective is the debate.

Where is some data to support all these cc holders who turn criminal?

You just go to the Violence Policy Center....they are a rabidly anti gun, anti 2nd Amendment site that miscounts the numbers, and counts suicided against concealed carry holders.....and when you go to Brains link.....

another thing to keep in mind......having a concealed carry permit would not have stopped these crimes....I read one where a dentist with a permit shot a cop for no reason......having a permit did not mean one thing toward the outcome of that shooting.....he could and probably would have carried without a permit considering he murdered a cop in cold blood...

So again....this site simply proves that these laws only matter for those who obey the laws.....the concealed carry process doesn't stop crime....it just burdens the good people who won't murder other people.....

It proves you are arming criminals and often murderers.

Brain, the only ones arming criminals are obama and Eric holder and they really armed drug cartels with fully automatic weapons.......

You and your anti gun buddies insist on concealed carry permits and background checks......and when they don't work......you blame us....after we told you guys they were pointless and wouldn't work............if a person with a permit murders someone.....lock them up.....but don't blame 99.9% of permit holders who obey your dumb anti gun laws and your dumb permit process.

Well the 232,000 guns stolen each year are coming from gun owners into the hands of criminals. That's no small number. Huge number really.

 

[2aguy]

No they are interested in making it harder for criminals to get guns. Often they happen to be the same given how many comcealed carry holders turn criminal. Whether their efforts are effective is the debate.

Link us to statistics that support your bullshit claim that concealed carry permit holders turn criminal.

You claimed MANY turn criminal yet only have a little over 600 for 6 years an average of 100 a year out of millions of carry permits.

Well it is just the murders, I said turn criminal. Murder is small percent of all crime. That is quite a lot of killing for only what 11 million carrying? Now if they are killing so many one can assume there is a lot of other crimes being done. The janitor didn't actually kill anyone, but he tried and is a criminal.

And he was stopped by a concealed carry permit holder...don't forget to point that out.....

and again....if you took away the right to carry a weapon for self defense.....that janitor would still have brought that gun to kill those people....because he doesn't care about your law...but the pastor......he would have obeyed your stupid law and would have been unarmed facing this killer.....

your law would have killed those people not mine.....

No you can't say the janitor would have been armed. But since he was armed and mad at being fired he started shooting.

Yes, I can.....he tried to kill those people, and if he was prepared to cross that line he would have had that gun anyway....the only one who would not have had a gun if you and your anti gun buddies had your way and stopped carry laws would have been the pastor......since he would have obeyed the law....so the janitor who was prepared to kill would have had a gun, the good guy obeying anti gun laws would have been unarmed and those people would have been dead....lives were saved because a good guy had a gun and carried it to his place of work......

Just like the Psychiatrist at that hospital who broke the rules and brought a gun to work, the hospital was a gun free zone, and stopped the killer who also broke the law by carrying an illegal gun.....

only the good guys follow your stupid anti gun laws.....and good people die because of it....

 

[2aguy]

Link us to statistics that support your bullshit claim that concealed carry permit holders turn criminal.

You claimed MANY turn criminal yet only have a little over 600 for 6 years an average of 100 a year out of millions of carry permits.

Well it is just the murders, I said turn criminal. Murder is small percent of all crime. That is quite a lot of killing for only what 11 million carrying? Now if they are killing so many one can assume there is a lot of other crimes being done. The janitor didn't actually kill anyone, but he tried and is a criminal.

100 a year out of 11 million is .000009 percent of holders. so small as to be meaningless.

Actually there are 11.1 million permit holders in the United States....so your number is even better.....

So you think it is good that concealed carry holders murder people?

No, I was talking about the .000009 number from Retiredgysgt......with the actual number being 11.1 million concealed carry owners that percent would be even smaller.....I think it is great that gun owners in general, and concealed gun carriers stop 1.6 million violent criminal attacks and save lives every year.....far more than the alleged number from the anti gun, anti 2nd amendment Violence policy center numbers.....

 

[2aguy]

No they are interested in making it harder for criminals to get guns. Often they happen to be the same given how many comcealed carry holders turn criminal. Whether their efforts are effective is the debate.

Where is some data to support all these cc holders who turn criminal?

You just go to the Violence Policy Center....they are a rabidly anti gun, anti 2nd Amendment site that miscounts the numbers, and counts suicided against concealed carry holders.....and when you go to Brains link.....

another thing to keep in mind......having a concealed carry permit would not have stopped these crimes....I read one where a dentist with a permit shot a cop for no reason......having a permit did not mean one thing toward the outcome of that shooting.....he could and probably would have carried without a permit considering he murdered a cop in cold blood...

So again....this site simply proves that these laws only matter for those who obey the laws.....the concealed carry process doesn't stop crime....it just burdens the good people who won't murder other people.....

It proves you are arming criminals and often murderers.

Brain, the only ones arming criminals are obama and Eric holder and they really armed drug cartels with fully automatic weapons.......

You and your anti gun buddies insist on concealed carry permits and background checks......and when they don't work......you blame us....after we told you guys they were pointless and wouldn't work............if a person with a permit murders someone.....lock them up.....but don't blame 99.9% of permit holders who obey your dumb anti gun laws and your dumb permit process.

Well the 232,000 guns stolen each year are coming from gun owners into the hands of criminals. That's no small number. Huge number really.

Hmmmm....then make it against the law to steal someones gun....and make it extra special against the law to steal guns out of someones house....there......following your logic and the rest of the anti gunners that should do the trick....right? No more stolen guns......

Keeping in mind, again,and again....the three French terrorists lived in France, a country with strict gun control, where military guns are banned for civilians....and one of the terrorists was a convicted criminal, on a government anti terror watch list......and they still got military rifles, a rocket propelled grenade launcher and grenades.......all in a country with strict gun control laws....

Puerto Rico has the strictest gun control laws in the United States....an Island, where you can't just drive illegal guns across a border but must smuggle them in by plane or ship......and they have the highest gun murder rate in the world.......

So your gun laws do nothing to stop criminals from getting guns....all they can do is define the length of time criminals spend in jail after they break the law......

so all your gun laws are doing right now is disarming law abiding citizens......

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Link us to statistics that support your bullshit claim that concealed carry permit holders turn criminal.

You claimed MANY turn criminal yet only have a little over 600 for 6 years an average of 100 a year out of millions of carry permits.

Well it is just the murders, I said turn criminal. Murder is small percent of all crime. That is quite a lot of killing for only what 11 million carrying? Now if they are killing so many one can assume there is a lot of other crimes being done. The janitor didn't actually kill anyone, but he tried and is a criminal.

100 a year out of 11 million is .000009 percent of holders. so small as to be meaningless.

Actually there are 11.1 million permit holders in the United States....so your number is even better.....

So you think it is good that concealed carry holders murder people?

No one said that except you. One knows someone has lost the argument when they make such retarded statements.

 

[Flash]

Where is some data to support all these cc holders who turn criminal?

You just go to the Violence Policy Center....they are a rabidly anti gun, anti 2nd Amendment site that miscounts the numbers, and counts suicided against concealed carry holders.....and when you go to Brains link.....

another thing to keep in mind......having a concealed carry permit would not have stopped these crimes....I read one where a dentist with a permit shot a cop for no reason......having a permit did not mean one thing toward the outcome of that shooting.....he could and probably would have carried without a permit considering he murdered a cop in cold blood...

So again....this site simply proves that these laws only matter for those who obey the laws.....the concealed carry process doesn't stop crime....it just burdens the good people who won't murder other people.....

It proves you are arming criminals and often murderers.

Brain, the only ones arming criminals are obama and Eric holder and they really armed drug cartels with fully automatic weapons.......

You and your anti gun buddies insist on concealed carry permits and background checks......and when they don't work......you blame us....after we told you guys they were pointless and wouldn't work............if a person with a permit murders someone.....lock them up.....but don't blame 99.9% of permit holders who obey your dumb anti gun laws and your dumb permit process.

Well the 232,000 guns stolen each year are coming from gun owners into the hands of criminals. That's no small number. Huge number really.

Hmmmm....then make it against the law to steal someones gun....and make it extra special against the law to steal guns out of someones house....there......following your logic and the rest of the anti gunners that should do the trick....right? No more stolen guns......

Keeping in mind, again,and again....the three French terrorists lived in France, a country with strict gun control, where military guns are banned for civilians....and one of the terrorists was a convicted criminal, on a government anti terror watch list......and they still got military rifles, a rocket propelled grenade launcher and grenades.......all in a country with strict gun control laws....

Puerto Rico has the strictest gun control laws in the United States....an Island, where you can't just drive illegal guns across a border but must smuggle them in by plane or ship......and they have the highest gun murder rate in the world.......

So your gun laws do nothing to stop criminals from getting guns....all they can do is define the length of time criminals spend in jail after they break the law......

so all your gun laws are doing right now is disarming law abiding citizens......

It is amazing that these Left Wingers really think that more gun control laws will somehow make a difference in crime despite all the evidence that the existing laws make little or no difference.

Of course these are the same yahoos that thought Obama was going to be a good president so you know they aren't that smart.

 

[Brain357]

Link us to statistics that support your bullshit claim that concealed carry permit holders turn criminal.

You claimed MANY turn criminal yet only have a little over 600 for 6 years an average of 100 a year out of millions of carry permits.

Well it is just the murders, I said turn criminal. Murder is small percent of all crime. That is quite a lot of killing for only what 11 million carrying? Now if they are killing so many one can assume there is a lot of other crimes being done. The janitor didn't actually kill anyone, but he tried and is a criminal.

And he was stopped by a concealed carry permit holder...don't forget to point that out.....

and again....if you took away the right to carry a weapon for self defense.....that janitor would still have brought that gun to kill those people....because he doesn't care about your law...but the pastor......he would have obeyed your stupid law and would have been unarmed facing this killer.....

your law would have killed those people not mine.....

No you can't say the janitor would have been armed. But since he was armed and mad at being fired he started shooting.

Yes, I can.....he tried to kill those people, and if he was prepared to cross that line he would have had that gun anyway....the only one who would not have had a gun if you and your anti gun buddies had your way and stopped carry laws would have been the pastor......since he would have obeyed the law....so the janitor who was prepared to kill would have had a gun, the good guy obeying anti gun laws would have been unarmed and those people would have been dead....lives were saved because a good guy had a gun and carried it to his place of work......

Just like the Psychiatrist at that hospital who broke the rules and brought a gun to work, the hospital was a gun free zone, and stopped the killer who also broke the law by carrying an illegal gun.....

only the good guys follow your stupid anti gun laws.....and good people die because of it....

No you can't. He was only prepared to do that at the time of being fired. I don't think he knew he was getting fired that day so he'd have no reason to have the gun. He'd have to go back home and get the gun or perhaps even buy one. In the mean time any number of things could happen making him change his mind about trying to kill people.

 

[Brain357]

You claimed MANY turn criminal yet only have a little over 600 for 6 years an average of 100 a year out of millions of carry permits.

Well it is just the murders, I said turn criminal. Murder is small percent of all crime. That is quite a lot of killing for only what 11 million carrying? Now if they are killing so many one can assume there is a lot of other crimes being done. The janitor didn't actually kill anyone, but he tried and is a criminal.

100 a year out of 11 million is .000009 percent of holders. so small as to be meaningless.

Actually there are 11.1 million permit holders in the United States....so your number is even better.....

So you think it is good that concealed carry holders murder people?

No one said that except you. One knows someone has lost the argument when they make such retarded statements.

Well you guys seem really proud of the head count.

 

[2aguy]

You claimed MANY turn criminal yet only have a little over 600 for 6 years an average of 100 a year out of millions of carry permits.

Well it is just the murders, I said turn criminal. Murder is small percent of all crime. That is quite a lot of killing for only what 11 million carrying? Now if they are killing so many one can assume there is a lot of other crimes being done. The janitor didn't actually kill anyone, but he tried and is a criminal.

And he was stopped by a concealed carry permit holder...don't forget to point that out.....

and again....if you took away the right to carry a weapon for self defense.....that janitor would still have brought that gun to kill those people....because he doesn't care about your law...but the pastor......he would have obeyed your stupid law and would have been unarmed facing this killer.....

your law would have killed those people not mine.....

No you can't say the janitor would have been armed. But since he was armed and mad at being fired he started shooting.

Yes, I can.....he tried to kill those people, and if he was prepared to cross that line he would have had that gun anyway....the only one who would not have had a gun if you and your anti gun buddies had your way and stopped carry laws would have been the pastor......since he would have obeyed the law....so the janitor who was prepared to kill would have had a gun, the good guy obeying anti gun laws would have been unarmed and those people would have been dead....lives were saved because a good guy had a gun and carried it to his place of work......

Just like the Psychiatrist at that hospital who broke the rules and brought a gun to work, the hospital was a gun free zone, and stopped the killer who also broke the law by carrying an illegal gun.....

only the good guys follow your stupid anti gun laws.....and good people die because of it....

No you can't. He was only prepared to do that at the time of being fired. I don't think he knew he was getting fired that day so he'd have no reason to have the gun. He'd have to go back home and get the gun or perhaps even buy one. In the mean time any number of things could happen making him change his mind about trying to kill people.

Wow....so you are resting on your argument that a man who actually did try to murder several people....would have decided not to if he had to go home to get his gun................riiiiiiiiiiight........and then the pastor would have still been empty handed when the janitor went home and got his gun to murder those people............

Sometimes you think funny Brain.......

 

[Brain357]

Where is some data to support all these cc holders who turn criminal?

You just go to the Violence Policy Center....they are a rabidly anti gun, anti 2nd Amendment site that miscounts the numbers, and counts suicided against concealed carry holders.....and when you go to Brains link.....

another thing to keep in mind......having a concealed carry permit would not have stopped these crimes....I read one where a dentist with a permit shot a cop for no reason......having a permit did not mean one thing toward the outcome of that shooting.....he could and probably would have carried without a permit considering he murdered a cop in cold blood...

So again....this site simply proves that these laws only matter for those who obey the laws.....the concealed carry process doesn't stop crime....it just burdens the good people who won't murder other people.....

It proves you are arming criminals and often murderers.

Brain, the only ones arming criminals are obama and Eric holder and they really armed drug cartels with fully automatic weapons.......

You and your anti gun buddies insist on concealed carry permits and background checks......and when they don't work......you blame us....after we told you guys they were pointless and wouldn't work............if a person with a permit murders someone.....lock them up.....but don't blame 99.9% of permit holders who obey your dumb anti gun laws and your dumb permit process.

Well the 232,000 guns stolen each year are coming from gun owners into the hands of criminals. That's no small number. Huge number really.

Hmmmm....then make it against the law to steal someones gun....and make it extra special against the law to steal guns out of someones house....there......following your logic and the rest of the anti gunners that should do the trick....right? No more stolen guns......

Keeping in mind, again,and again....the three French terrorists lived in France, a country with strict gun control, where military guns are banned for civilians....and one of the terrorists was a convicted criminal, on a government anti terror watch list......and they still got military rifles, a rocket propelled grenade launcher and grenades.......all in a country with strict gun control laws....

Puerto Rico has the strictest gun control laws in the United States....an Island, where you can't just drive illegal guns across a border but must smuggle them in by plane or ship......and they have the highest gun murder rate in the world.......

So your gun laws do nothing to stop criminals from getting guns....all they can do is define the length of time criminals spend in jail after they break the law......

so all your gun laws are doing right now is disarming law abiding citizens......

And Denmark has strict gun laws and a really low homicide rate. We could go back and forth like that all day. France has a much lower homicide rate than us for that matter.

 

[2aguy]

Well it is just the murders, I said turn criminal. Murder is small percent of all crime. That is quite a lot of killing for only what 11 million carrying? Now if they are killing so many one can assume there is a lot of other crimes being done. The janitor didn't actually kill anyone, but he tried and is a criminal.

100 a year out of 11 million is .000009 percent of holders. so small as to be meaningless.

Actually there are 11.1 million permit holders in the United States....so your number is even better.....

So you think it is good that concealed carry holders murder people?

No one said that except you. One knows someone has lost the argument when they make such retarded statements.

Well you guys seem really proud of the head count.

I am proud that 1.6 million Americans have stopped violent attacks and saved peoples lives, while only 8-9,000 gun murders happen each year in a country of over 310 million people....

 

[Brain357]

Well it is just the murders, I said turn criminal. Murder is small percent of all crime. That is quite a lot of killing for only what 11 million carrying? Now if they are killing so many one can assume there is a lot of other crimes being done. The janitor didn't actually kill anyone, but he tried and is a criminal.

And he was stopped by a concealed carry permit holder...don't forget to point that out.....

and again....if you took away the right to carry a weapon for self defense.....that janitor would still have brought that gun to kill those people....because he doesn't care about your law...but the pastor......he would have obeyed your stupid law and would have been unarmed facing this killer.....

your law would have killed those people not mine.....

No you can't say the janitor would have been armed. But since he was armed and mad at being fired he started shooting.

Yes, I can.....he tried to kill those people, and if he was prepared to cross that line he would have had that gun anyway....the only one who would not have had a gun if you and your anti gun buddies had your way and stopped carry laws would have been the pastor......since he would have obeyed the law....so the janitor who was prepared to kill would have had a gun, the good guy obeying anti gun laws would have been unarmed and those people would have been dead....lives were saved because a good guy had a gun and carried it to his place of work......

Just like the Psychiatrist at that hospital who broke the rules and brought a gun to work, the hospital was a gun free zone, and stopped the killer who also broke the law by carrying an illegal gun.....

only the good guys follow your stupid anti gun laws.....and good people die because of it....

No you can't. He was only prepared to do that at the time of being fired. I don't think he knew he was getting fired that day so he'd have no reason to have the gun. He'd have to go back home and get the gun or perhaps even buy one. In the mean time any number of things could happen making him change his mind about trying to kill people.

Wow....so you are resting on your argument that a man who actually did try to murder several people....would have decided not to if he had to go home to get his gun................riiiiiiiiiiight........and then the pastor would have still been empty handed when the janitor went home and got his gun to murder those people............

Sometimes you think funny Brain.......

Yes that is exactly what I'm saying. Sometimes a person just needs a little time to cool off. Are you saying you've never done something in anger that you regretted minutes later? You must be joking.

 

[2aguy]

You just go to the Violence Policy Center....they are a rabidly anti gun, anti 2nd Amendment site that miscounts the numbers, and counts suicided against concealed carry holders.....and when you go to Brains link.....

another thing to keep in mind......having a concealed carry permit would not have stopped these crimes....I read one where a dentist with a permit shot a cop for no reason......having a permit did not mean one thing toward the outcome of that shooting.....he could and probably would have carried without a permit considering he murdered a cop in cold blood...

So again....this site simply proves that these laws only matter for those who obey the laws.....the concealed carry process doesn't stop crime....it just burdens the good people who won't murder other people.....

It proves you are arming criminals and often murderers.

Brain, the only ones arming criminals are obama and Eric holder and they really armed drug cartels with fully automatic weapons.......

You and your anti gun buddies insist on concealed carry permits and background checks......and when they don't work......you blame us....after we told you guys they were pointless and wouldn't work............if a person with a permit murders someone.....lock them up.....but don't blame 99.9% of permit holders who obey your dumb anti gun laws and your dumb permit process.

Well the 232,000 guns stolen each year are coming from gun owners into the hands of criminals. That's no small number. Huge number really.

Hmmmm....then make it against the law to steal someones gun....and make it extra special against the law to steal guns out of someones house....there......following your logic and the rest of the anti gunners that should do the trick....right? No more stolen guns......

Keeping in mind, again,and again....the three French terrorists lived in France, a country with strict gun control, where military guns are banned for civilians....and one of the terrorists was a convicted criminal, on a government anti terror watch list......and they still got military rifles, a rocket propelled grenade launcher and grenades.......all in a country with strict gun control laws....

Puerto Rico has the strictest gun control laws in the United States....an Island, where you can't just drive illegal guns across a border but must smuggle them in by plane or ship......and they have the highest gun murder rate in the world.......

So your gun laws do nothing to stop criminals from getting guns....all they can do is define the length of time criminals spend in jail after they break the law......

so all your gun laws are doing right now is disarming law abiding citizens......

And Denmark has strict gun laws and a really low homicide rate. We could go back and forth like that all day. France has a much lower homicide rate than us for that matter.

Until the criminals decide to use guns to kill people....then the gun laws mean nothing ,and stop nothing....as was shown at the magazine and the deli and the other shootings in France....and Canada, and Australia, and Puerto Rico....

 

[Brain357]

100 a year out of 11 million is .000009 percent of holders. so small as to be meaningless.

Actually there are 11.1 million permit holders in the United States....so your number is even better.....

So you think it is good that concealed carry holders murder people?

No one said that except you. One knows someone has lost the argument when they make such retarded statements.

Well you guys seem really proud of the head count.

I am proud that 1.6 million Americans have stopped violent attacks and saved peoples lives, while only 8-9,000 gun murders happen each year in a country of over 310 million people....

1.6 million criminals defending against other criminals according to kleck. You are proud of a bunch of armed criminals? That is messed up.

 

[2aguy]

And he was stopped by a concealed carry permit holder...don't forget to point that out.....

and again....if you took away the right to carry a weapon for self defense.....that janitor would still have brought that gun to kill those people....because he doesn't care about your law...but the pastor......he would have obeyed your stupid law and would have been unarmed facing this killer.....

your law would have killed those people not mine.....

No you can't say the janitor would have been armed. But since he was armed and mad at being fired he started shooting.

Yes, I can.....he tried to kill those people, and if he was prepared to cross that line he would have had that gun anyway....the only one who would not have had a gun if you and your anti gun buddies had your way and stopped carry laws would have been the pastor......since he would have obeyed the law....so the janitor who was prepared to kill would have had a gun, the good guy obeying anti gun laws would have been unarmed and those people would have been dead....lives were saved because a good guy had a gun and carried it to his place of work......

Just like the Psychiatrist at that hospital who broke the rules and brought a gun to work, the hospital was a gun free zone, and stopped the killer who also broke the law by carrying an illegal gun.....

only the good guys follow your stupid anti gun laws.....and good people die because of it....

No you can't. He was only prepared to do that at the time of being fired. I don't think he knew he was getting fired that day so he'd have no reason to have the gun. He'd have to go back home and get the gun or perhaps even buy one. In the mean time any number of things could happen making him change his mind about trying to kill people.

Wow....so you are resting on your argument that a man who actually did try to murder several people....would have decided not to if he had to go home to get his gun................riiiiiiiiiiight........and then the pastor would have still been empty handed when the janitor went home and got his gun to murder those people............

Sometimes you think funny Brain.......

Yes that is exactly what I'm saying. Sometimes a person just needs a little time to cool off. Are you saying you've never done something in anger that you regretted minutes later? You must be joking.

I'm saying it is stupid to trust the lives of those people at that church to the "chance" that that janitor would decide not to murder them.....when he actually did try to murder them......I would rather that pastor have the choice to protect himself...and not rely on the judgment of the janitor, who actually showed he was willing to commit murder....it wasn't a hypothetical...it was real.....and he was really stopped by the pastor with a gun......

 

[2aguy]

Actually there are 11.1 million permit holders in the United States....so your number is even better.....

So you think it is good that concealed carry holders murder people?

No one said that except you. One knows someone has lost the argument when they make such retarded statements.

Well you guys seem really proud of the head count.

I am proud that 1.6 million Americans have stopped violent attacks and saved peoples lives, while only 8-9,000 gun murders happen each year in a country of over 310 million people....

1.6 million criminals defending against other criminals according to kleck. You are proud of a bunch of armed criminals? That is messed up.

That is a lie Brain....kleck said no such thing....he specifically stated that some people in the study were carrying guns for protection from criminals even though in the 90s it was against the law in some of those states....

You are lying when you imply that career criminals committing crimes are the majority of those cases.....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Actually there are 11.1 million permit holders in the United States....so your number is even better.....

So you think it is good that concealed carry holders murder people?

No one said that except you. One knows someone has lost the argument when they make such retarded statements.

Well you guys seem really proud of the head count.

I am proud that 1.6 million Americans have stopped violent attacks and saved peoples lives, while only 8-9,000 gun murders happen each year in a country of over 310 million people....

1.6 million criminals defending against other criminals according to kleck. You are proud of a bunch of armed criminals? That is messed up.

That lie did not work the first time and does not work now. Remind us how you want all swimming pools shut down and removed along with all access to streams rivers lakes and oceans due to the number of people that drown every year in them?

You want to remove a right from 315 million people because a fraction of fraction of a fraction of a percent of people abuse the right. Guess what dumb ass get a new amendment passed or shut the fuck up.

 

[Brain357]

No you can't say the janitor would have been armed. But since he was armed and mad at being fired he started shooting.

Yes, I can.....he tried to kill those people, and if he was prepared to cross that line he would have had that gun anyway....the only one who would not have had a gun if you and your anti gun buddies had your way and stopped carry laws would have been the pastor......since he would have obeyed the law....so the janitor who was prepared to kill would have had a gun, the good guy obeying anti gun laws would have been unarmed and those people would have been dead....lives were saved because a good guy had a gun and carried it to his place of work......

Just like the Psychiatrist at that hospital who broke the rules and brought a gun to work, the hospital was a gun free zone, and stopped the killer who also broke the law by carrying an illegal gun.....

only the good guys follow your stupid anti gun laws.....and good people die because of it....

No you can't. He was only prepared to do that at the time of being fired. I don't think he knew he was getting fired that day so he'd have no reason to have the gun. He'd have to go back home and get the gun or perhaps even buy one. In the mean time any number of things could happen making him change his mind about trying to kill people.

Wow....so you are resting on your argument that a man who actually did try to murder several people....would have decided not to if he had to go home to get his gun................riiiiiiiiiiight........and then the pastor would have still been empty handed when the janitor went home and got his gun to murder those people............

Sometimes you think funny Brain.......

Yes that is exactly what I'm saying. Sometimes a person just needs a little time to cool off. Are you saying you've never done something in anger that you regretted minutes later? You must be joking.

I'm saying it is stupid to trust the lives of those people at that church to the "chance" that that janitor would decide not to murder them.....when he actually did try to murder them......I would rather that pastor have the choice to protect himself...and not rely on the judgment of the janitor, who actually showed he was willing to commit murder....it wasn't a hypothetical...it was real.....and he was really stopped by the pastor with a gun......

I've never suggested disarming anyone. I've just pointed out that concealed carry people turn criminal quite often. I was challenged on that fact so I offered examples. I prefer people not be shooting at each other.

 

[Brain357]

So you think it is good that concealed carry holders murder people?

No one said that except you. One knows someone has lost the argument when they make such retarded statements.

Well you guys seem really proud of the head count.

I am proud that 1.6 million Americans have stopped violent attacks and saved peoples lives, while only 8-9,000 gun murders happen each year in a country of over 310 million people....

1.6 million criminals defending against other criminals according to kleck. You are proud of a bunch of armed criminals? That is messed up.

That is a lie Brain....kleck said no such thing....he specifically stated that some people in the study were carrying guns for protection from criminals even though in the 90s it was against the law in some of those states....

You are lying when you imply that career criminals committing crimes are the majority of those cases.....

Then Kleck is lying:
Kleck:
"This is true because DGUs typically involve criminal behavior, such as unlawful gun possession, by the gun-using victim, who therefore is often unwilling to report the incident."

 

[2aguy]

Yes, I can.....he tried to kill those people, and if he was prepared to cross that line he would have had that gun anyway....the only one who would not have had a gun if you and your anti gun buddies had your way and stopped carry laws would have been the pastor......since he would have obeyed the law....so the janitor who was prepared to kill would have had a gun, the good guy obeying anti gun laws would have been unarmed and those people would have been dead....lives were saved because a good guy had a gun and carried it to his place of work......

Just like the Psychiatrist at that hospital who broke the rules and brought a gun to work, the hospital was a gun free zone, and stopped the killer who also broke the law by carrying an illegal gun.....

only the good guys follow your stupid anti gun laws.....and good people die because of it....

No you can't. He was only prepared to do that at the time of being fired. I don't think he knew he was getting fired that day so he'd have no reason to have the gun. He'd have to go back home and get the gun or perhaps even buy one. In the mean time any number of things could happen making him change his mind about trying to kill people.

Wow....so you are resting on your argument that a man who actually did try to murder several people....would have decided not to if he had to go home to get his gun................riiiiiiiiiiight........and then the pastor would have still been empty handed when the janitor went home and got his gun to murder those people............

Sometimes you think funny Brain.......

Yes that is exactly what I'm saying. Sometimes a person just needs a little time to cool off. Are you saying you've never done something in anger that you regretted minutes later? You must be joking.

I'm saying it is stupid to trust the lives of those people at that church to the "chance" that that janitor would decide not to murder them.....when he actually did try to murder them......I would rather that pastor have the choice to protect himself...and not rely on the judgment of the janitor, who actually showed he was willing to commit murder....it wasn't a hypothetical...it was real.....and he was really stopped by the pastor with a gun......

I've never suggested disarming anyone. I've just pointed out that concealed carry people turn criminal quite often. I was challenged on that fact so I offered examples. I prefer people not be shooting at each other.

How do you figure "quite often?" There are 11.1 million people with concealed carry permits....only what...650 people may have committed a crime according to an anti gun, anti 2nd amendment site.....out of 11.1 million people......hardly.....

I have to go....