The Right To Bear Arms

[Brain357]

You can't trust Moon Bats to get it right with "reasonable" because their agenda is too unreasonable.

Anti-gun loons are only interested in making it harder for the law abiding to exercise their right to self-defense.
They have no other agenda.

No they are interested in making it harder for criminals to get guns. Often they happen to be the same given how many comcealed carry holders turn criminal. Whether their efforts are effective is the debate.

How many is that? Do you have numbers and links, or are you talking out your anus again?

I back up everything I say. I've already posted the killers. And like I posted kleck has said most defenses are by someone involved in criminal activity. You need to keep up.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Over 200000 deaths a year due to doctors. When will we outlaw doctors?

Doctors are the Third Leading Cause of Death

 

[Brain357]

3 in 100000 children under the age of 5 drown every year. Where is the outrage, the demands for pools to be closed, for rivers and oceans to be blocked. For better controls on bathtubs and sinks?

Drowning Still A Leading Cause Of Death For Kids 5 And Under CDC Reports

You seem really off topic. Have you lost your mind?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

3 in 100000 children under the age of 5 drown every year. Where is the outrage, the demands for pools to be closed, for rivers and oceans to be blocked. For better controls on bathtubs and sinks?

Drowning Still A Leading Cause Of Death For Kids 5 And Under CDC Reports

You seem really off topic. Have you lost your mind?

I have posted 2 different ways that people die more from then firearms, and I have yet to see you complain about those things, have you an agenda?

 

[2aguy]

You can't trust Moon Bats to get it right with "reasonable" because their agenda is too unreasonable.

Anti-gun loons are only interested in making it harder for the law abiding to exercise their right to self-defense.
They have no other agenda.

No they are interested in making it harder for criminals to get guns. Often they happen to be the same given how many comcealed carry holders turn criminal. Whether their efforts are effective is the debate.

How many is that? Do you have numbers and links, or are you talking out your anus again?

I back up everything I say. I've already posted the killers. And like I posted kleck has said most defenses are by someone involved in criminal activity. You need to keep up.

He didn't say that....

Guns and Self-Defense by Gary Kleck Ph.D.

The authors concluded that defensive uses of guns are about three to four times as common as criminal uses of guns. The National Self-Defense Survey confirmed the picture of frequent defensive gun use implied by the results of earlier, less sophisticated surveys.

 

[Ernie S.]

You can't trust Moon Bats to get it right with "reasonable" because their agenda is too unreasonable.

Anti-gun loons are only interested in making it harder for the law abiding to exercise their right to self-defense.
They have no other agenda.

No they are interested in making it harder for criminals to get guns. Often they happen to be the same given how many comcealed carry holders turn criminal. Whether their efforts are effective is the debate.

Link us to statistics that support your bullshit claim that concealed carry permit holders turn criminal.

VPC - The Violence Policy Center - Concealed Carry Killers
And that is just the killers. A recent story a janitor was fired and tried to shoot the pastor. The janitor had a carry permit....

The article avoids saying that 169 cases apparently resulted in acquittals or dropped charges.
That leaves 510 of which 190 were suicides or 320. 17 were lawful self defense where no charges were filed and 18 were ruled accidental. That's 285, 60 of which are pending trial. We can expect half to end in acquittals, so we have 255 unlawful killings with guns by concealed carry permit holders.

What's that? 6 months death toll for Chicago alone?

 

[2aguy]

You can't trust Moon Bats to get it right with "reasonable" because their agenda is too unreasonable.

Anti-gun loons are only interested in making it harder for the law abiding to exercise their right to self-defense.
They have no other agenda.

No they are interested in making it harder for criminals to get guns. Often they happen to be the same given how many comcealed carry holders turn criminal. Whether their efforts are effective is the debate.

Link us to statistics that support your bullshit claim that concealed carry permit holders turn criminal.

VPC - The Violence Policy Center - Concealed Carry Killers
And that is just the killers. A recent story a janitor was fired and tried to shoot the pastor. The janitor had a carry permit....

The article avoids saying that 169 cases apparently resulted in acquittals or dropped charges.
That leaves 510 of which 190 were suicides or 320. 17 were lawful self defense where no charges were filed and 18 were ruled accidental. That's 285, 60 of which are pending trial. We can expect half to end in acquittals, so we have 255 unlawful killings with guns by concealed carry permit holders.

What's that? 6 months death toll for Chicago alone?

Out of a country of over 310 million people......285.....

 

[Brain357]

You can't trust Moon Bats to get it right with "reasonable" because their agenda is too unreasonable.

Anti-gun loons are only interested in making it harder for the law abiding to exercise their right to self-defense.
They have no other agenda.

No they are interested in making it harder for criminals to get guns. Often they happen to be the same given how many comcealed carry holders turn criminal. Whether their efforts are effective is the debate.

How many is that? Do you have numbers and links, or are you talking out your anus again?

I back up everything I say. I've already posted the killers. And like I posted kleck has said most defenses are by someone involved in criminal activity. You need to keep up.

He didn't say that....

Guns and Self-Defense by Gary Kleck Ph.D.

The authors concluded that defensive uses of guns are about three to four times as common as criminal uses of guns. The National Self-Defense Survey confirmed the picture of frequent defensive gun use implied by the results of earlier, less sophisticated surveys.

Yes he has and its a quote from your link. He counts criminals defending against criminals and you know that. Stop lying.

 

[Brain357]

Anti-gun loons are only interested in making it harder for the law abiding to exercise their right to self-defense.
They have no other agenda.

No they are interested in making it harder for criminals to get guns. Often they happen to be the same given how many comcealed carry holders turn criminal. Whether their efforts are effective is the debate.

Link us to statistics that support your bullshit claim that concealed carry permit holders turn criminal.

VPC - The Violence Policy Center - Concealed Carry Killers
And that is just the killers. A recent story a janitor was fired and tried to shoot the pastor. The janitor had a carry permit....

The article avoids saying that 169 cases apparently resulted in acquittals or dropped charges.
That leaves 510 of which 190 were suicides or 320. 17 were lawful self defense where no charges were filed and 18 were ruled accidental. That's 285, 60 of which are pending trial. We can expect half to end in acquittals, so we have 255 unlawful killings with guns by concealed carry permit holders.

What's that? 6 months death toll for Chicago alone?

Out of a country of over 310 million people......285.....

It's from the 11 million carriers. And that's just murders.

 

[Roadrunner]

B

No they are interested in making it harder for criminals to get guns. Often they happen to be the same given how many comcealed carry holders turn criminal. Whether their efforts are effective is the debate.

What criminal is going to be deterred by any stupid anti gun law?

Most firearm crimes are committed with illegal or stolen firearms so why do you think making even more laws is going to change anything? Chicago has the strictest gun control laws in the country and the worse crime rate so what addition law is going to change that?

Even in a "shall issue" state a concealed weapon permit usually requires a significant background check so if they think concealed weapon permit holders are potential criminals then what degree of gun control are they suggesting?

There is a Bill of Rights that says that Americans have the individual right to keep and bear arms. The Libtards should lean to live with it.

Right now felons can easily get around background checks by buying from a private seller. Why not make it harder for them?

Ok so if many crimes involve stolen guns than maybe laws are needed to keep guns from being stolen. Like they must be stored in a safe.

The machine gun laws have been very effective. They are almost never used in crime.

But, we have more per capita murders than we had when machine guns were legal.

 

[Brain357]

3 in 100000 children under the age of 5 drown every year. Where is the outrage, the demands for pools to be closed, for rivers and oceans to be blocked. For better controls on bathtubs and sinks?

Drowning Still A Leading Cause Of Death For Kids 5 And Under CDC Reports

You seem really off topic. Have you lost your mind?

I have posted 2 different ways that people die more from then firearms, and I have yet to see you complain about those things, have you an agenda?

I don't see a reason to go so far off topic. Again I've not suggested banning guns, just giving the facts.

 

[Brain357]

B

No they are interested in making it harder for criminals to get guns. Often they happen to be the same given how many comcealed carry holders turn criminal. Whether their efforts are effective is the debate.

What criminal is going to be deterred by any stupid anti gun law?

Most firearm crimes are committed with illegal or stolen firearms so why do you think making even more laws is going to change anything? Chicago has the strictest gun control laws in the country and the worse crime rate so what addition law is going to change that?

Even in a "shall issue" state a concealed weapon permit usually requires a significant background check so if they think concealed weapon permit holders are potential criminals then what degree of gun control are they suggesting?

There is a Bill of Rights that says that Americans have the individual right to keep and bear arms. The Libtards should lean to live with it.

Right now felons can easily get around background checks by buying from a private seller. Why not make it harder for them?

Ok so if many crimes involve stolen guns than maybe laws are needed to keep guns from being stolen. Like they must be stored in a safe.

The machine gun laws have been very effective. They are almost never used in crime.

But, we have more per capita murders than we had when machine guns were legal.

Think you better check your numbers. You have a link? They are still legal btw, just controlled.

 

[Ernie S.]

No they are interested in making it harder for criminals to get guns. Often they happen to be the same given how many comcealed carry holders turn criminal. Whether their efforts are effective is the debate.

Where is some data to support all these cc holders who turn criminal?

You just go to the Violence Policy Center....they are a rabidly anti gun, anti 2nd Amendment site that miscounts the numbers, and counts suicided against concealed carry holders.....and when you go to Brains link.....

another thing to keep in mind......having a concealed carry permit would not have stopped these crimes....I read one where a dentist with a permit shot a cop for no reason......having a permit did not mean one thing toward the outcome of that shooting.....he could and probably would have carried without a permit considering he murdered a cop in cold blood...

So again....this site simply proves that these laws only matter for those who obey the laws.....the concealed carry process doesn't stop crime....it just burdens the good people who won't murder other people.....

It proves you are arming criminals and often murderers.

Brain, the only ones arming criminals are obama and Eric holder and they really armed drug cartels with fully automatic weapons.......

You and your anti gun buddies insist on concealed carry permits and background checks......and when they don't work......you blame us....after we told you guys they were pointless and wouldn't work............if a person with a permit murders someone.....lock them up.....but don't blame 99.9% of permit holders who obey your dumb anti gun laws and your dumb permit process.

Well the 232,000 guns stolen each year are coming from gun owners into the hands of criminals. That's no small number. Huge number really.

And that can be blamed on legal gun owners who didn't use their weapons to defend their homes.

 

[Ernie S.]

]

Well you guys seem really proud of the head count.

How about the head count from people who could not defend themselves from an armed criminal?

Or our daughters and wives getting raped because they couldn't have a firearm?

Wont happen in my family, my wife is armed. And my daughter will be when she is age appropriate.

My wife and all 3 children (2 sons and a daughter) have concealed carry permits.

 

[Brain357]

]

Well you guys seem really proud of the head count.

How about the head count from people who could not defend themselves from an armed criminal?

Or our daughters and wives getting raped because they couldn't have a firearm?

Wont happen in my family, my wife is armed. And my daughter will be when she is age appropriate.

My wife and all 3 children (2 sons and a daughter) have concealed carry permits.

I hope everyone is careful. You are about 3x more likely to accidently kill someone than you are to shoot and kill a criminal.

 

[Ernie S.]

Anti-gun loons are only interested in making it harder for the law abiding to exercise their right to self-defense.
They have no other agenda.

No they are interested in making it harder for criminals to get guns. Often they happen to be the same given how many comcealed carry holders turn criminal. Whether their efforts are effective is the debate.

Link us to statistics that support your bullshit claim that concealed carry permit holders turn criminal.

VPC - The Violence Policy Center - Concealed Carry Killers
And that is just the killers. A recent story a janitor was fired and tried to shoot the pastor. The janitor had a carry permit....

The article avoids saying that 169 cases apparently resulted in acquittals or dropped charges.
That leaves 510 of which 190 were suicides or 320. 17 were lawful self defense where no charges were filed and 18 were ruled accidental. That's 285, 60 of which are pending trial. We can expect half to end in acquittals, so we have 255 unlawful killings with guns by concealed carry permit holders.

What's that? 6 months death toll for Chicago alone?

Out of a country of over 310 million people......285.....

In 6 years. That's 153 cases per billion, yes BILLION per year.

 

[Ernie S.]

]

Well you guys seem really proud of the head count.

How about the head count from people who could not defend themselves from an armed criminal?

Or our daughters and wives getting raped because they couldn't have a firearm?

Wont happen in my family, my wife is armed. And my daughter will be when she is age appropriate.

My wife and all 3 children (2 sons and a daughter) have concealed carry permits.

I hope everyone is careful. You are about 3x more likely to accidently kill someone than you are to shoot and kill a criminal.

Bullshit!

 

[Brain357]

No they are interested in making it harder for criminals to get guns. Often they happen to be the same given how many comcealed carry holders turn criminal. Whether their efforts are effective is the debate.

Link us to statistics that support your bullshit claim that concealed carry permit holders turn criminal.

VPC - The Violence Policy Center - Concealed Carry Killers
And that is just the killers. A recent story a janitor was fired and tried to shoot the pastor. The janitor had a carry permit....

The article avoids saying that 169 cases apparently resulted in acquittals or dropped charges.
That leaves 510 of which 190 were suicides or 320. 17 were lawful self defense where no charges were filed and 18 were ruled accidental. That's 285, 60 of which are pending trial. We can expect half to end in acquittals, so we have 255 unlawful killings with guns by concealed carry permit holders.

What's that? 6 months death toll for Chicago alone?

Out of a country of over 310 million people......285.....

In 6 years. That's 153 cases per billion, yes BILLION per year.

No there are only about 11 million with carry permits.

 

[Brain357]

]

Well you guys seem really proud of the head count.

How about the head count from people who could not defend themselves from an armed criminal?

Or our daughters and wives getting raped because they couldn't have a firearm?

Wont happen in my family, my wife is armed. And my daughter will be when she is age appropriate.

My wife and all 3 children (2 sons and a daughter) have concealed carry permits.

I hope everyone is careful. You are about 3x more likely to accidently kill someone than you are to shoot and kill a criminal.

Bullshit!

There are only about 230 or so criminals killed each year in defense and over 600 accidental killings each year. Do the math.

 

[Ernie S.]

Perhaps your 230 number is correct, but there are, depending on the study you choose, maybe a million and a half instances where a gun has been used to ward off assault or robbery without firing a shot in most cases. I myself have stopped an armed robbery (knife) attempt on myself with my legally carried revolver and the attempted rape of my wife with a shotgun.
I chased off people lurking in the bushes outside of my bar on Monday night by displaying my firearm after they (or someone) had called asking if we had security.
There were roughly 30 people in the bar at the time.

Did my actions save lives? There is no way of knowing. I just know that no one was shot or robbed and all 11 bullets are still in my weapon.