The Right To Bear Arms

[Unkotare]

And don't forget this:

"Before Pearl Harbor was bombed, President Roosevelt secretly commissioned Curtis Munson, a businessman, to assess the possibility that Japanese Americans would pose a threat to US security. Munson’s report found (as cited in Ronald Takaki, Strangers from a Distant Shore, page 386) that "There will be no armed uprising of Japanese" in the United States. "For the most part," the report says, "the local Japanese are loyal to the United States or, at worst, hope that by remaining quiet they can avoid concentration camps or irresponsible mobs."

 

[Unkotare]

You obviously can't look at those dates or use your brain to figure out there were Japanese agents on the west coast of the United States and in Hawaii.

Which agents were those?

Once again, NOT ONE Japanese American was ever convicted of espionage during WWII. This cannot be said for German and Italian Americans.


YOU are simply an un-American douchebag trying to defend the indefensible (and losing badly). Your false and baseless arguments have been knocked down at every turn. US Presidents and Supreme Court Justices since (and many during) the war have recognized the injustice of FDR's concentration camps. You are all alone in your obstinant anti-American view.

 

[Unkotare]

You're a fool trying to make something out of nothing.

If you think that throwing over 110,000 innocent people into concentration camps and depriving American citizens of their Constitutional rights is "nothing," then you are not just a fucking idiot, you are flat-out fucking evil.


Don't just get the fuck out of my country, get the fuck off my planet you worthless, inhuman offense to life and liberty itself.

 

[Dubya]

Hawaii wasn't a state and they could restrict the Japanese from getting near sensitive military installations, so there was no problem with sabotage or espionage.

Hawaii was essentially a huge military installation at the time. No better place for espionage and/or sabotage. And there were many, many more Japanese concentrated in one place, undoubtedly with many well entrenched into the local economy and society. Very much closer to Japan and Japanese holdings and in a much better location for reporting and communicating information (as you yourself argued before you realized that residents of Hawaii were largely not sent to FDR's concentration camps, you ignorant shit). This, combined with the FACT that only a relatively tiny fraction of German Americans had their Constitutional rights abrogated despite their far larger numbers overall AND on the East coast where actual spy operations were active, completely and totally blows your stupid 'it was necessary' argument right out of the water.

"Japanese Americans in Hawaii were not incarcerated because they made up nearly 40% of the population and a large portion of the skilled workforce. The fact they were not incarcerated suggests that the removal of Japanese Americans on the west coast was racially motivated rather than out of "military necessity." Agricultural interest groups in western states, and many local politicians, had long been against Japanese Americans, and used the attack on Pearl Harbor to step up calls for their removal."

You don't bother to know anything about what you talk about. Hawaii was not essentially a huge military installation at the time and never has been.

Pearl Harbor had the naval base, navy yard, oil tank farms, and submarine base, all in the same location. There was a major airfield and army barracks at a different location. Pearl Harbor is located on the island of Oahu, Hawaii, which is one of the smaller Hawaiian Islands. Those two military installations took up a small percentage of the area of that smaller Hawaiian Island. The only security needed was to keep the Japanese far enough away from those military installations. Doing so would mean a ship could come and go and the Japanese on the Island wouldn't know. The major ships leaving the harbor had submarine protection. The coming and going of aircraft wasn't that important, because they were always sending out patrols, including a lot of amphibious aircraft.

After the Pearl Harbor attack, any location in the Pacific became important listening posts and it is possible at times to pick up a signal from a very long distance. I'm sure our government put plenty of resources on all the Hawaiian Islands to try to find Japanese agents. If Japan wanted to add an agent to the Hawaiian Islands, all it had to do is find someone who spoke English, train them, give them resources and drop them off by submarine. By the time the Philippines fell, they had plenty of American money. That's only 5 months after the Pearl Harbor attack. Your statements about no espionage or sabotage may apply to the continental United States where communication wasn't possible. Removing all the Japanese from the west coast prevented communication. Maybe that's why they were kept in internment and not released in the east. It's ridiculous to claim there weren't Japanese agents in Hawaii.

At this point, you are just making ridiculous statements to support what you claim is your case, but the odds are, it's just more anti-Democrat propaganda and not even true outrage about the plight of the people in Japanese Internment. You've posted some shitty blogs that contradict themselves on their front page. A person who had an interest in the subject would be more selective in posting information.

 

[Unkotare]

Hawaii wasn't a state and they could restrict the Japanese from getting near sensitive military installations, so there was no problem with sabotage or espionage.

Hawaii was essentially a huge military installation at the time. No better place for espionage and/or sabotage. And there were many, many more Japanese concentrated in one place, undoubtedly with many well entrenched into the local economy and society. Very much closer to Japan and Japanese holdings and in a much better location for reporting and communicating information (as you yourself argued before you realized that residents of Hawaii were largely not sent to FDR's concentration camps, you ignorant shit). This, combined with the FACT that only a relatively tiny fraction of German Americans had their Constitutional rights abrogated despite their far larger numbers overall AND on the East coast where actual spy operations were active, completely and totally blows your stupid 'it was necessary' argument right out of the water.

"Japanese Americans in Hawaii were not incarcerated because they made up nearly 40% of the population and a large portion of the skilled workforce. The fact they were not incarcerated suggests that the removal of Japanese Americans on the west coast was racially motivated rather than out of "military necessity." Agricultural interest groups in western states, and many local politicians, had long been against Japanese Americans, and used the attack on Pearl Harbor to step up calls for their removal."

You don't bother to know anything about what you talk about. Hawaii was not essentially a huge military installation at the time and never has been.

Pearl Harbor had the naval base, navy yard, oil tank farms, and submarine base, all in the same location. There was a major airfield and army barracks at a different location. Pearl Harbor is located on the island of Oahu, Hawaii, which is one of the smaller Hawaiian Islands. Those two military installations took up a small percentage of the area of that smaller Hawaiian Island.

LOL. You are such an ignorant shit. You stink of desperation at this point, you evil fuck.


Google Image Result for http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/7Dec41/maps/7Dec41-2.jpg


And look at all these military installations:



Camp McKinley (est. 1898)
Fort Kamehameha (est. 1907)
Pearl Harbor Naval Station (est. 1908)
Fort Shafter (est. 1907)
Fort Ruger (est. 1909)
Schofield Barracks (est. 1909)


Battery Closson (est. 1911)
Battery Dudley (est. 1911)
Battery Randolph (est. 1911)
Fort DeRussy (est. 1915)
Wheeler Army Airfield (est. 1922)


Military Bases on the Big Island of Hawaii

Military Bases on Kauai Island in Hawaii



All of Hawaii was seen as America's most important strategic asset regarding the war in the Pacific.

 

[Unkotare]

I'm sure our government put plenty of resources on all the Hawaiian Islands to try to find Japanese agents.

I notice you say "I'm sure" a lot when you are talking out your ass and can't prove anything.

 

[Unkotare]

It's ridiculous to claim there weren't Japanese agents in Hawaii.

Really? What were their names?

 

[Unkotare]

You can't defend the indefnsible, you evil scum.

 

[Unkotare]

Hey scum, read about a real American:

He stood up while others sat - The Denver Post

 

[Unkotare]

If Japan wanted to add an agent to the Hawaiian Islands, all it had to do is find someone who spoke English, train them, give them resources and drop them off by submarine.

What's this "add an agent" stuff now? What happened to all your talk about "the Emperor putting out the call" and all that? Wasn't that part of your justification for throwing brave, loyal, innocent AMERICAN CITIZENS into concentration camps? How many times are you going to try and change the narrative when you get smacked in the face with facts, scumbag?

 

[Dubya]

Hawaii was essentially a huge military installation at the time. No better place for espionage and/or sabotage. And there were many, many more Japanese concentrated in one place, undoubtedly with many well entrenched into the local economy and society. Very much closer to Japan and Japanese holdings and in a much better location for reporting and communicating information (as you yourself argued before you realized that residents of Hawaii were largely not sent to FDR's concentration camps, you ignorant shit). This, combined with the FACT that only a relatively tiny fraction of German Americans had their Constitutional rights abrogated despite their far larger numbers overall AND on the East coast where actual spy operations were active, completely and totally blows your stupid 'it was necessary' argument right out of the water.

"Japanese Americans in Hawaii were not incarcerated because they made up nearly 40% of the population and a large portion of the skilled workforce. The fact they were not incarcerated suggests that the removal of Japanese Americans on the west coast was racially motivated rather than out of "military necessity." Agricultural interest groups in western states, and many local politicians, had long been against Japanese Americans, and used the attack on Pearl Harbor to step up calls for their removal."

You don't bother to know anything about what you talk about. Hawaii was not essentially a huge military installation at the time and never has been.

Pearl Harbor had the naval base, navy yard, oil tank farms, and submarine base, all in the same location. There was a major airfield and army barracks at a different location. Pearl Harbor is located on the island of Oahu, Hawaii, which is one of the smaller Hawaiian Islands. Those two military installations took up a small percentage of the area of that smaller Hawaiian Island.

LOL. You are such an ignorant shit. You stink of desperation at this point, you evil fuck.


Google Image Result for http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/7Dec41/maps/7Dec41-2.jpg


And look at all these military installations:



Camp McKinley (est. 1898)
Fort Kamehameha (est. 1907)
Pearl Harbor Naval Station (est. 1908)
Fort Shafter (est. 1907)
Fort Ruger (est. 1909)
Schofield Barracks (est. 1909)


Battery Closson (est. 1911)
Battery Dudley (est. 1911)
Battery Randolph (est. 1911)
Fort DeRussy (est. 1915)
Wheeler Army Airfield (est. 1922)


Military Bases on the Big Island of Hawaii

Military Bases on Kauai Island in Hawaii



All of Hawaii was seen as America's most important strategic asset regarding the war in the Pacific.

You can't even post an image. Paste it in that little box above that says insert image when you post!

You act like an airstrip or radar outpost is some kind of major military installation. Those forts were obsolete in the day of carriers. Even the battleships were obsolete, if an aircraft carrier or aircraft was around. Do you see the Wheeler Field near Schofield Barracks, that's the other millitary installation, besides Pearl Harbor? It wouldn't surprise me if they remove every Japanese from Oahu to prevent some sailor mentioning his ship at a bar and having it overheard. Hawaii was not full of military installations.

Pearl Harbor was attacked by 6 aircraft carriers and we had 3 carriers in the Pacific that weren't at Pearl Harbor. Very little damage was done to the Japanese Fleet. The Lexington was sunk at Coral Sea and the Saratoga was torpedoed at Wake Island (a very early battle when Pearl Harbor was attacked) and went back to the west coast for repairs. Only the Enterprise of the original 3 managed to make it to the Battle of Midway. The Hornet was there and the Yorktown, which was damaged during the Battle of the Coral Sea, was at Midway and was sunk. Midway was 4 months after Japanese Internment orders. The Japanese losing 4 carriers to our 1 and stopping the invasion was a great victory, but that left 2 carriers to guard the whole Pacific. An island with aircraft is like a carrier that can't move, but the airfield needs to be attacked by ground troops. Aircraft can be transported as freight, but that is a slow way of doing it. If you have enough small carriers, you can use them to refuel planes that can land on carriers, but you need many of them to get all the way to Hawaii.

You haven't shown anything to prove the decision to evacuate Japanese from the west coast was a bad decision. You can talk about people's rights all you want to, but this was total war. We were fighting a defensive war in the Pacific and weren't able to go on the offensive, until after the Guadalcanal Campaign. If we didn't get lucky at Midway and buy us some time, the Panama Canal would have been destroyed and the west coast would have been blockaded and raided. The Japanese would have owned the Hawaiian Islands by then. A different fate would had made so and it was that close.

 

[Unkotare]

You don't bother to know anything about what you talk about. Hawaii was not essentially a huge military installation at the time and never has been.

Pearl Harbor had the naval base, navy yard, oil tank farms, and submarine base, all in the same location. There was a major airfield and army barracks at a different location. Pearl Harbor is located on the island of Oahu, Hawaii, which is one of the smaller Hawaiian Islands. Those two military installations took up a small percentage of the area of that smaller Hawaiian Island.

LOL. You are such an ignorant shit. You stink of desperation at this point, you evil fuck.


Google Image Result for http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/7Dec41/maps/7Dec41-2.jpg


And look at all these military installations:



Camp McKinley (est. 1898)
Fort Kamehameha (est. 1907)
Pearl Harbor Naval Station (est. 1908)
Fort Shafter (est. 1907)
Fort Ruger (est. 1909)
Schofield Barracks (est. 1909)


Battery Closson (est. 1911)
Battery Dudley (est. 1911)
Battery Randolph (est. 1911)
Fort DeRussy (est. 1915)
Wheeler Army Airfield (est. 1922)


Military Bases on the Big Island of Hawaii

Military Bases on Kauai Island in Hawaii



All of Hawaii was seen as America's most important strategic asset regarding the war in the Pacific.

You act like an airstrip or radar outpost is some kind of major military installation.

LOL! Keep spinning, chump. You're doing terrible.

 

[Unkotare]

You haven't shown anything to prove the decision to evacuate Japanese from the west coast was a bad decision.

Beyond bullshit. Anyone can read this thread and see the mountain of evidence I have shoved down your weaselly little throat, against which you have feebly offered nothing but your own un-American immorality.

 

[Dubya]

You haven't shown anything to prove the decision to evacuate Japanese from the west coast was a bad decision.

Beyond bullshit. Anyone can read this thread and see the mountain of evidence I have shoved down your weaselly little throat, against which you have feebly offered nothing but your own un-American immorality.

There is no evidence in your posts. Blogs aren't evidence. You believe when a nation is at total war against two powerful enemies and the Italians and they know the Japanese have put agents on the west coast that they shouldn't be concerned that an invasion and containment of their operations in the Pacific looks eminent. The Japanese knew the names of the carriers we had in the Pacific at Pearl Harbor and afterwards when they had changed. We knew the names of their carriers too, so figure it out!

Your posts boil down to: under no conditions should the rights of an American citizen be violated, even if it costs you a war and you'll have no rights at all. It's totally hindsight. The Battle of Midway, which gave us our chance in the Pacific could easily rest on the Japanese fleet leaves 10 minutes earlier and the outcome of the battle changes. We had the three best carriers in our navy there, all Yorktown class, but we were still lucky to only lose 1. If the Japanese attacked with six, like they did at Pearl Harbor, they could have either sunk or damaged beyond battle readiness all three of those Yorktown class carriers in a counter strike and probably had three carriers left.

 

[Unkotare]

You haven't shown anything to prove the decision to evacuate Japanese from the west coast was a bad decision.

Beyond bullshit. Anyone can read this thread and see the mountain of evidence I have shoved down your weaselly little throat, against which you have feebly offered nothing but your own un-American immorality.

There is no evidence in your posts. Blogs aren't evidence.

Lies and denials won't improve your spin, scumbag. Anyone and everyone can see that you are choking under a mountain of evidence that your un-American views are wrong and indefensible. All proof and principle show that FDR's concentration camps were unwarranted, unconstitutional and immoral. Even most of those caught up in the fervor, fear, and racism of the times later came to admit it was in every sense wrong. That you cannot, more than half a century later, shows that you are stupid and fundamentally un-American (among other things).

 

[Unkotare]

President Ronald Reagan:

"August 10, 1988


The Members of Congress and distinguished guests, my fellow Americans, we gather here today to right a grave wrong. More than 40 years ago, shortly after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, 120,000 persons of Japanese ancestry living in the United States were forcibly removed from their homes and placed in makeshift internment camps. This action was taken without trial, without jury. It was based solely on race, for these 120,000 were Americans of Japanese descent.


Yes, the Nation was then at war, struggling for its survival and it's not for us today to pass judgment upon those who may have made mistakes while engaged in that great struggle. Yet we must recognize that the internment of Japanese-Americans was just that: a mistake. For throughout the war, Japanese-Americans in the tens of thousands remained utterly loyal to the United States. Indeed, scores of Japanese-Americans volunteered for our Armed Forces, many stepping forward in the internment camps themselves. The 442d Regimental Combat Team, made up entirely of Japanese-Americans, served with immense distinction to defend this nation, their nation. Yet back at home, the soldier's families were being denied the very freedom for which so many of the soldiers themselves were laying down their lives.


Congressman Norman Mineta, with us today, was 10 years old when his family was interned. In the Congressman's words: ''My own family was sent first to Santa Anita Racetrack. We showered in the horse paddocks. Some families lived in converted stables, others in hastily thrown together barracks. We were then moved to Heart Mountain, Wyoming, where our entire family lived in one small room of a rude tar paper barrack.'' Like so many tens of thousands of others, the members of the Mineta family lived in those conditions not for a matter of weeks or months but for 3 long years.


The legislation that I am about to sign provides for a restitution payment to each of the 60,000 surviving Japanese-Americans of the 120,000 who were relocated or detained. Yet no payment can make up for those lost years. So, what is most important in this bill has less to do with property than with honor. For here we admit a wrong; here we reaffirm our commitment as a nation to equal justice under the law.


I'd like to note that the bill I'm about to sign also provides funds for members of the Aleut community who were evacuated from the Aleutian and Pribilof Islands after a Japanese attack in 1942. This action was taken for the Aleuts' own protection, but property was lost or damaged that has never been replaced.


And now in closing, I wonder whether you'd permit me one personal reminiscence, one prompted by an old newspaper report sent to me by Rose Ochi, a former internee. The clipping comes from the Pacific Citizen and is dated December 1945.


''Arriving by plane from Washington,'' the article begins, ''General Joseph W. Stilwell pinned the Distinguished Service Cross on Mary Masuda in a simple ceremony on the porch of her small frame shack near Talbert, Orange County. She was one of the first Americans of Japanese ancestry to return from relocation centers to California's farmlands.'' ''Vinegar Joe'' Stilwell was there that day to honor Kazuo Masuda, Mary's brother. You see, while Mary and her parents were in an internment camp, Kazuo served as staff sergeant to the 442d Regimental Combat Team. In one action, Kazuo ordered his men back and advanced through heavy fire, hauling a mortar. For 12 hours, he engaged in a singlehanded barrage of Nazi positions. Several weeks later at Cassino, Kazuo staged another lone advance. This time it cost him his life.


The newspaper clipping notes that her two surviving brothers were with Mary and her parents on the little porch that morning. These two brothers, like the heroic Kazuo, had served in the United States Army. After General Stilwell made the award, the motion picture actress Louise Allbritton, a Texas girl, told how a Texas battalion had been saved by the 442d. Other show business personalities paid tribute--Robert Young, Will Rogers, Jr. And one young actor said: ''Blood that has soaked into the sands of a beach is all of one color. America stands unique in the world: the only country not founded on race but on a way, an ideal. Not in spite of but because of our polyglot background, we have had all the strength in the world. That is the American way.'' The name of that young actor--I hope I pronounce this right--was Ronald Reagan. And, yes, the ideal of liberty and justice for all--that is still the American way.


Thank you, and God bless you. And now let me sign H.R. 442, so fittingly named in honor of the 442d.


Thank you all again, and God bless you all. I think this is a fine day."


Note: The President spoke at 2:33 p.m. in Room 450 of the Old Executive Office Building. H.R. 442, approved August 10, was assigned Public Law No. 100-383.

 

[Dubya]

Beyond bullshit. Anyone can read this thread and see the mountain of evidence I have shoved down your weaselly little throat, against which you have feebly offered nothing but your own un-American immorality.

There is no evidence in your posts. Blogs aren't evidence.

Lies and denials won't improve your spin, scumbag. Anyone and everyone can see that you are choking under a mountain of evidence that your un-American views are wrong and indefensible. All proof and principle show that FDR's concentration camps were unwarranted, unconstitutional and immoral. Even most of those caught up in the fervor, fear, and racism of the times later came to admit it was in every sense wrong. That you cannot, more than half a century later, shows that you are stupid and fundamentally un-American (among other things).

That is spin and all your evidence is hindsight. There were very good reasons to get all the Japanese away from the west coast and the reasons have been explained. An apology after the fact doesn't mean those people wouldn't have done the same thing, if they were living in that time. It's totally bullshit to claim the Japanese were removed because of prejudice. They were removed to prevent spying and communicating information to the enemy. Guess what, it worked.

Tough times require tough decisions and you're point of view is obviously biased to keep calling internment camps, concentration camps. FDR was the Assistant Secretary of the Navy under President Wilson. He knew more about our chances in the Pacific than you do.

 

[Unkotare]

There is no evidence in your posts. Blogs aren't evidence.

Lies and denials won't improve your spin, scumbag. Anyone and everyone can see that you are choking under a mountain of evidence that your un-American views are wrong and indefensible. All proof and principle show that FDR's concentration camps were unwarranted, unconstitutional and immoral. Even most of those caught up in the fervor, fear, and racism of the times later came to admit it was in every sense wrong. That you cannot, more than half a century later, shows that you are stupid and fundamentally un-American (among other things).

That is spin and all your evidence is hindsight.

Was it "hindsight" that before the attack on Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt's own intelligence agents told him that there was no reason to expect espionage from among the Japanese community? And in FACT there never was. Do you remember that I have provided you with that information several times now, you dishonest fuck?

Was it "hindsight" that during the war volunteers from the Japanese-American community, many right from the concentration camps themselves, formed the unit that became the most decorated in US military history? Ask some boys from Texas about that.

Was it "hindsight" that the Supreme Court and even the scumbag FDR himself had to admit - before the war was over - that the camps were unnecessary and wrong?

Fuck you, you un-American piece of shit.

 

[Unkotare]

There were very good reasons to get all the Japanese away from the west coast and the reasons have been explained.

There were none, and all of your empty, false arguments have been shredded several times now.

 

[Unkotare]

It's totally bullshit to claim the Japanese were removed because of prejudice.

That's not what US Supreme Court Justices and US Presidents have said. That's more evidence I have given you several times now, you dishonest fuck.