The Right To Bear Arms

[Unkotare]

They were removed to prevent spying and communicating information to the enemy.

If that were really the case, over 100,000 German and Italian Americans would have been "removed" from the East coast, WHERE THERE REALLY WAS ESPIONAGE TAKING PLACE. That's more evidence I have provided you several times now, you dishonest fuck.

 

[Unkotare]

you're [sic] point of view is obviously biased to keep calling internment camps, concentration camps.

'Your'


And I've already taught you that concentration camps are exactly what FDR ordered, you dishonest fuck. If you're afraid of the name maybe you should face up to the FACTS.

 

[Dubya]

you're [sic] point of view is obviously biased to keep calling internment camps, concentration camps.

'Your'


And I've already taught you that concentration camps are exactly what FDR ordered, you dishonest fuck. If you're afraid of the name maybe you should face up to the FACTS.

So what asshole, I changed a sentence and didn't change a word.

Post where FDR called them concentration camps! I think the point is the Germans probably called their camps concentration camps and that name took on different meaning and you know it. It's disrespectful of all those people who died in concentration camps to make that comparison. It shows you're an asshole.

 

[Dubya]

They were removed to prevent spying and communicating information to the enemy.

If that were really the case, over 100,000 German and Italian Americans would have been "removed" from the East coast, WHERE THERE REALLY WAS ESPIONAGE TAKING PLACE. That's more evidence I have provided you several times now, you dishonest fuck.

No, they both wouldn't have been, because only the Germans were a threat and we didn't have many recent German immigrants. You better believe there was interest in recent immigrants from both those countries and the foreign enemy national were watched and had restrictions. There was no danger of a German invasion. The Germans didn't have the navy for it and the Japanese did. Are you that damned stupid that you don't know that as a fact? The Germans could even invade the UK, how in hell are they going to invade America?

 

[Dubya]

It's totally bullshit to claim the Japanese were removed because of prejudice.

That's not what US Supreme Court Justices and US Presidents have said. That's more evidence I have given you several times now, you dishonest fuck.

That doesn't change the fact they would have done the same thing under those circumstance.

 

[Unkotare]

Post where FDR called them concentration camps!

I already have several times, you dishonest fuck.

 

[Unkotare]

It's totally bullshit to claim the Japanese were removed because of prejudice.

That's not what US Supreme Court Justices and US Presidents have said. That's more evidence I have given you several times now, you dishonest fuck.

That doesn't change the fact they would have done the same thing under those circumstance.

Not everyone is an evil, un-American piece of shit like you.


I already quoted Supreme Court Justices AT THE TIME, and told you about Ralph Carr, you dishonest fuck.

 

[Unkotare]

we didn't have many recent German immigrants.

Of course we did, you idiot. Prove your assertion that we didn't.

 

[Unkotare]

The Germans didn't have the navy for it and the Japanese did.

And yet German submarines actually did pull up to our shores and disgorge actual spies, AS OPPOSED TO THE WEST COAST, idiot. I've already presented these facts to you several times, you dishonest fuck.

 

[Unkotare]

the Germans probably called their camps concentration camps .

There it is again. "Probably," "I'm sure,"I have no doubt." all these phrases you rely on when you are talking out your ass and can't support what you are saying.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

There was no danger of a German invasion.

or an Italian invasion for sure but the tendency to be loyal and spy for your home country was obviously great. Some Italians were rounded up accordingly. I remember how local Italians would make big Sunday meals for Italian prisioner's of war at Camp Drum,NY. To say that some Japs may have been disloyal or contemplated being disloyal would be like saying some Jews would contemplate being disloyal if we went to war with Israel. Its obvious that it is a normal human reaction just as its obvious that the home country would want to take precautions.

 

[Unkotare]

we didn't have many recent German immigrants.

"From 1923 to 1963 the number of German arrivals to America outnumbered those from any other country."



German Immigration



"Between 1820 and 1920 over 5,500,000 emigrated from Germany to the United States. Germany therefore contributed more people than any other country including Ireland (4,400,000), Italy (4,190,000) and Austria-Hungary (3,700,000)."



German Immigration

 

[Unkotare]

There was no danger of a German invasion.

or an Italian invasion for sure but the tendency to be loyal and spy for your home country was obviously great. Some Italians were rounded up accordingly. I remember how local Italians would make big Sunday meals for Italian prisioner's of war at Camp Drum,NY. To say that some Japs may have been disloyal or contemplated being disloyal would be like saying some Jews would contemplate being disloyal if we went to war with Israel. Its obvious that it is a normal human reaction just as its obvious that the home country would want to take precautions.

The word is 'Japanese.' I know those three extra letters are a real chore to type.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

There was no danger of a German invasion.

or an Italian invasion for sure but the tendency to be loyal and spy for your home country was obviously great. Some Italians were rounded up accordingly. I remember how local Italians would make big Sunday meals for Italian prisioner's of war at Camp Drum,NY. To say that some Japs may have been disloyal or contemplated being disloyal would be like saying some Jews would contemplate being disloyal if we went to war with Israel. Its obvious that it is a normal human reaction just as its obvious that the home country would want to take precautions.

The word is 'Japanese.' I know those three extra letters are a real chore to type.

Its obvious that it is a normal human reaction just as its obvious that the home country would want to take precautions.

 

[Unkotare]

or an Italian invasion for sure but the tendency to be loyal and spy for your home country was obviously great. Some Italians were rounded up accordingly. I remember how local Italians would make big Sunday meals for Italian prisioner's of war at Camp Drum,NY. To say that some Japs may have been disloyal or contemplated being disloyal would be like saying some Jews would contemplate being disloyal if we went to war with Israel. Its obvious that it is a normal human reaction just as its obvious that the home country would want to take precautions.

The word is 'Japanese.' I know those three extra letters are a real chore to type.

Its obvious that it is a normal human reaction.

Then why didn't it happen?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The word is 'Japanese.' I know those three extra letters are a real chore to type.

Its obvious that it is a normal human reaction.

Then why didn't it happen?

It did happen for many Japanese and some Italians and Germans.

 

[Unkotare]

Its obvious that it is a normal human reaction.

Then why didn't it happen?

It did happen for many Japanese and some Italians and Germans.

What do you think you are talking about? What "did happen for many Japanese"?

 

[Ernie S.]

you're [sic] point of view is obviously biased to keep calling internment camps, concentration camps.

'Your'


And I've already taught you that concentration camps are exactly what FDR ordered, you dishonest fuck. If you're afraid of the name maybe you should face up to the FACTS.

So what asshole, I changed a sentence and didn't change a word.

Post where FDR called them concentration camps! I think the point is the Germans probably called their camps concentration camps and that name took on different meaning and you know it. It's disrespectful of all those people who died in concentration camps to make that comparison. It shows you're an asshole.

For Christ sake! It is not disrespectful of anyone to call what you refer to as "internment camps" what they really were. Assigning some kind of imagined degenerate behavior to your opponents is one of those uniquely Liberal debate tactics. It may impress other Libs, but not anyone that has ever had an independent thought.
The camps were a place where Japanese Americans were concentrated in several manageable locations. They likely would have been called Concentration Camps had the term not already been associated with Germany and Jewish internment.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Then why didn't it happen?

It did happen for many Japanese and some Italians and Germans.

What do you think you are talking about? What "did happen for many Japanese"?

they were rounded up as were fewer Germans and Italians


This is a list of Japanese spies including leaders and commanders of the Japanese Secret Intelligence Services (Kempeitai) in the period 1930 to 1945.
The Emperor of Japan (Tenno) was constitutionally the supreme commander of the Japanese Secret Services as a branch of the Imperial Armed forces.
Yakichiro Suma – Japan's Ambassador in Spain, Chief of the Japanese spy network code named "TO". Friend of Foreign Ministers Ramon Suñer (General Franco's brother-in-law) and Count Gomez Jordana. He collected information from Afghanistan, Russia, Iran, and India.
Morito Morishima – Japanese ambassador in Portugal.
Hiroshi Ōshima – Japanese ambassador in Germany, close friends with Admiral Canaris, chief of Germany's intelligence organization (Abwehr) and Italy's Military Intelligence Bureau. Oshima then relayed TO to Tokyo along with messages coordinating policies and operations between the three Axis powers.
Yoshio Muto – spy operating in San Francisco.
Toshio Miyazaki – Japanese Navy agent who recruited the American Harry Thomas Thompson as a secret agent in San Diego.
Yuchi Tonogawa – a Japanese Army agent disguised as a farm worker in Brazil, also a member of a local secret web in Brazil.
A Japanese army captain disguised himself as a chef for a prominent Brazilian family until detected by Brazilian security services.
Jakuji Ochi – a Japanese Navy agent, disguised as a woodworker in Panama, also chief of a local secret web in Las Perlas Archipelago. Also in Panama were a Japanese family of fishermen who were a supposed part of this web.
There were 250,000 Japanese nationals living in Brazil, and by August 1942, German submarines had sunk 19 Brazilian ships. Considering that Japan had signed the Axis treaty with the Germans, and realizing the methods of Japan's intelligence system using Japanese people of ordinary appearance, Brazil's authorities were in a quandary.
Prince Higashikuni – on a secret mission commissioned by Tenno, arranged a secret meeting in Baden-Baden (Germany) during 1921, with "Three Raven" (a secret military thinking group) to organize the next underground commission of "Eleven Reliable Mens" who gave orders to prepare the future conquest lines of Japanese forces.
Prince Chichibu – with Hirohito's orders, arrived in Manchuria for an underground reconnaissance mission in accordance with secret plans of the Japanese intervention there.
Ryonosuke Seita – chief of a local spy web in Brisbane, Australia. Possibly linked to Pedro de Ygual, Spanish Consul in Australia and a known General Franco supporter.
Motojiro Akashi – Black Dragon member and Agent specialized in Siberia and North Asia. Knowledgeable about China, Manchuria, Siberia and established contacts throughout the Muslim world. These Muslim contacts would be maintained through the Second World War, both as operatives in their areas and as a hedge against Soviet aggression. Akashi eventually established networks through Europe too, that served the Black Dragons. The Black Dragons also formed close contact and even alliances with Buddhist sects throughout Asia.
Japanese Official Radio, Radio Tokyo, sent its foreign transmissions, with some cover messages to Japanese Doho agents outside Japan.
Tokyo Rose – a foreign woman announcer on Radio Tokyo. Sent coded messages to Japanese agents in Southeast Asia and the Pacific area via radio messages.
Hiraya Amane – secret agent in Hankow, China. Wrote Zhong-guo Bi-mi She-hui Shi, the first true history of the Triads and other secret societies; this book was a special intelligence handbook. Hiraya also organized Tung Wen College in Shanghai that trained future agents for espionage in China. The Tung Wen would continue to operate until the end of World War II, training agents for operations throughout Asia.
Marcelle Tao Kitazawa – agent in Australia, linked with Seita, who led a spy web in New Caledonia.[citation needed]
Agent Umeda – local agent in North Queensland, Australia.
Kinoaki Matsuo – member of the ultra-nationalist Black Dragon secret society, and an officer in Japanese Intelligence.
Mitsuru Toyama – chief of Black Dragon Society, an active agent linked with Japanese Secret Service and Japanese outside agents.
Shūmei Ōkawa – ultra-nationalist, agent instructor, and an agent in China and North Asia.
Yoshio Kodama – Japanese gangster and Yakuza chief, he set up a massive network of Manchurian spies and informants spread across China.
Hideki Tōjō – the Chief of the Japanese Army, Prime Minister and chief of the Kodoha Party; for a period chief of Kwantung Army and Kempeitai Intelligence service in Manchukuo. He also maintained during his military life direct control of the Japanese Secret Services (apart from the Emperor's command of such services) and received information first through his direct link with the Black Dragon Society and his own intelligence work with the Japanese Army during the conflict.
Kōki Hirota – former Foreign Minister and head of the Black Dragons (also guided intelligence services in the group), discussed the advantages and consequences of a conflict with the United States with War Minister Hideki Tōjō. In a conference on August 26, 1941 at a session of the Black Dragon Society HQ in Tokyo, the War Minister ordered preparation to be made to wage a total war against the armed forces of the United States. December 1941 or February 1942, were considered adequate time for this operation. Tojo said he "will start the war with America, and after sixty days he will reshuffle the cabinet and become a great dictator", at same time if analyzed the last dates provided from Japanese secret agents about Soviet Far East and European colonies in Southeast Asia, in relation to this operation.
Previously in World War II on the Chinese mainland, Black Dragon posed one five column, so-called "China Wave-Men". They undertook some secret operations at favour of such group. Similar operations with revolutionaries were established from 1906 to the 1940s, targeting India, Indonesia and the Philippines amongst others. The Black Dragons began establishing subsidiary groups to support these regional actions.
Kenjiro Hayashide – second secretary in Japanese Embassy in Hsinking, Diplomatic Adviser to the Kangde Emperor and underground secret agent, author of "Epochal voyage to Nippon", a publication edited by the Intelligence agency in General Affairs State Council of Manchukuo.
Michitarō Komatsubara – intelligence chief in Harbin for some time.
Kingoro Hashimoto – served in the secret service in Manchukuo for a period
Sadao Araki – undertook some secret actions in his service in the Siberian Japanese expeditionary force period
Wellington Koo – as member of Lytton Commission during his diplomatic mission in Manchukuo, reported the frequent watching of suspicious Japanese, Chinese, Korean and White Russian employees in the Hotel Moderne, Harbin. Similarly Amleto Vespa as a Manchu/Japanese forced secret agent, confirmed the presence of such secret agents in these period in places where stay mentioned diplomatic commission in country.
Kanji Ishiwara – undertook undercover actions and espionage in Manchukuo
Kenji Doihara – member of the Japanese intelligence service in Manchukuo, making some secret actions there and on the Chinese mainland
Noboyushi Obata (Shinryo) – chief of secret unit in Harbin
Masaiko Amakazu – secret agent in Manchukuo, chief of the Manchukuo Film Association
A Japanese undercover agent, disguised as a "Housekeeper" watching constantly at Puyi in the imperial palace and writing periodical reports to superiors of Japanese Secret Services in Manchukuo about intimate details of Kangde Emperor.
Theorically in Manchukuo, Kangde Emperor held the command of Manchu Secret Services and received their information. But in reality these units and their sections stayed under the control of Kempeitai and Kwantung Army
Amleto Vespa – Italian forced secret agent of Japanese and Manchu secret service for some time
In Manchukuo – Japanese and Manchu local secret services used some Chinese, Mongol, Buriats, Korean, and White Russians as secret agents and saboteurs, for watching enemies
Lo-Chen-Yu – a local manchu servant with delictive links, also a secret agent
Seishirō Itagaki – member of Japanese intelligence service with duties in Manchukuo and Korea
Yasunori Yoshioka – Japanese Intelligence member with missions in Manchukuo
A Prince – unknown identity, chief and secret agent in Japanese Secret Service in Manchukuo. Was possibly Prince Takeda
Konoto Daisaku – Japanese agent with orders in Manchukuo
Major Giga – Japanese agent and saboteur in Manchukuo
Hisao Watari – Agent of Japanese Intelligence service in Manchukuo
Kwantung Army – poses the Asano Division and "Mongol Army" special units, conformed by White Russians the first and Mongols the second. Imperial forces projected use such units in secret missions and sabotages during eventual invasion to SovietSiberia, Outer Mongolia and Russian Far East.
Takayoshi Tanaka – another Japanese agent with missions in the north and central Chinese mainland
Kanji Tsuneoka – the real power in Mengchiang, led the central academy (intelligence school) in Kalgan and undertook some secret operations in the area. Directed the Mongol department of Kwantung Army in the land, native saboteurs and secret agent units.
Yoshiko Kawashima – Manchu princess, and Japanese secret agent with orders on Chinese mainland
Pince Su – Another Mongol Japanese agent in inner Mongolia
Nataoke Sato – Japanese Ambassador in Moscow, undertook some secret missions for the Axis Powers efforts during Eastern front battles.
Jinzo Nomoto – intelligence officer sent by a unit of the Imperial Japanese Army to Tibet and Sinkiang. He worked in Manchukuo and was a member of Mongolian section in Kwantung Army, later sent to mentioned territories.
Ma Chung-ying – Local Uguir server, undertook some secret actions for the Japanese in this land.
Trebitsch Lincoln – Hungarian
Kanyei Chuyo – a chief of Japanese Navy Secret services. Directed the 8th Section "Yashika". Between this unit stay the "Australian Section" ("Tokyo Gimusho") linked with Japanese Naval Intelligence Staff under command of Imperial Navy General Staff. The office had orders to researching any affairs of the British Empire in Southeast Asia and Pacific Area.
Kinoaki Matsuo – Foreign Affairs Ministry, also intelligence officer when serving as liaison between the Japanese Foreign Office and the Imperial Admiralty
Mineo Ōsumi – nobility member and member of the Supreme War Council of Japan. He undertook some secret missions in central and southern China under the orders of the Japanese Navy.
Officer Maruyama – underground unit, in Censorship department between the Tokkō Intelligence service, in Tokyo, Japan. He watched any information sent to outside by foreign journalists from the Japanese capital.
Japanese Secret Services – used some foreign persons as inside agents for watching suspicious persons in Japan. Between theirs stayed one American with residence in Japan, one Hungarian agent in the service of the Japanese Army and one Euroasiatic Agent at service in Japanese Navy and intelligence office in Foreign Affairs Ministry. Such units along with Western and East Asian agents are used by Japanese Secret services and Army and Navy during Pacific War in East Asia, Australia and Pacific territories.
These intelligence services also used Doho or dokuku jin – (nikkei) cultural groups since 1920s to Pacific War as alternative secret agents. These were Japanese citizens with foreign nationality, with loyalty to Tenno and nation; they lived around the world.
Tatsuki Fuji – Editor of Singapore Herald. Himself an agent in Malaysia.
Shinozaki Mamoru – Japanese diplomat, arrested for espionage in previous days to arriving Imperial forces at country.
Japanese Army – special forces agents, Susuhiko Mizuno, Sergeant Morita, Sergeant Furuhashi, Lance Corporal Kazuo Ito 6 sailors and 5 Timorese decoys, undertook some secret missions from Koepang, Timor island, to disembark in Western Australia, during January 19, 1944. They were members of the Matsu Kikan (Pine Tree) Secret Agency, led by Captain Masayoshi Yamamoto with HQ in Ambon (Dutch Indies), under command of 19th Army. This group traveled aboard Hiyoshi Maru; managed by Staff Sergeant Auonuma and Officer Hachiro Akai. They arrived at Cartier Island escorted by Kawasaki Ki-48 "Lilly" light bomber of 7th Air division from Kendari finally arriving at Browse Island. The same group observed nearby areas too. On January 20, 1944, this unit returned to Timor.
Certain Australian sources mentioned one Japanese secret mission to Mornington Island, in the Gulf of Carpentaria during January 1944. Watchers inform about one black large ship, landing on the island on January 15, 1944.
The Black Dragon Society, the Kaigun Kyokai (Navy League), or the Hoirusha Kai (Military Service Man's League), and other similar societies. These Japanese secret groups were well known to the Naval Intelligence Service or the Federal Bureau of Investigation your existence and your some subversive actions in United States, at favour of Japanese cause along some elements of Doho communities in country.
Other overseas Japanese agents of Black Dragon Society, were the so-called "Soshi" (Brave Knights). At the same time referring to superior commander how the "Darkside Emperor" mentioned agents since firsts 1940s period, was operating worldwide, as far away as North America, South America and Morocco in North Africa. They formed covert ties with the Nazis.
German Lt. Col. Fritz von Petersdorf, Assist and German Military Attaché in Tokyo, received some information from Japanese Intelligence Services, in accord with Axis Powers alliance agreements. Such information was related to military strength, transportation, reserves, troop dispositions, and movements of Soviet Far East units sent to the West European front (Barbarossa Operation), as well the data concerning the war industry in the Soviet Union. This report was supported by Admiral Wenneker, the German naval attaché, under German official Ambassador Eugen Ott in the Japanese capital.
Hiroshi Akita – Chief of German Section of Japanese Military Intelligence in this period.
Japanese Army – sent a secret mission to Germany via Siberia, starting from Tokyo on March 1, 1943. This operation was led by Major General Okamoto, who had been Chief of the Second Bureau (Intelligence) at the time of the outbreak of the Pacific War. His staff consisted of Colonel Kotani, Navy officer Captain Onoda, and Mr.Yosano, Foreign Office Chancellor. Objectives of the mission were to investigate German ability to carry on the war; and to clarify Japan's real situation to the Germans. A third objective (concerning the arrangement of a separate peace between Germany and the Soviet Union) was eliminated just prior to the departure of the mission. The Okamoto Mission reported its findings in a cable dated July 5. Many reservations were attached to the report, which concluded that German national power was lower than had been foreseen by the mission before it left Japan. Germany would accordingly encounter many difficulties in emerging triumphant without first overcoming the critical problems which were fast approaching: Shortage of manpower, lowering of industrial war potential, insufficiency of liquid fuel, etc.
On October 15, 1943, IGHQ incorporated its Second Bureau's 16th Section (German and Italian Intelligence) into the 5th Section (U.S.S.R. intelligence). Just at time that the German Army was failing in its early summer offensive against Orel. The Soviet Army, on the other hand, had seized the operational initiative. The feeling of the Japanese Army High Command was therefore somewhat inclining to pessimism vis-a vis Germany. The Japanese Army committed a great error by placing excessive confidence in Germany. After the Allies had successfully established a Second Front in northern France (June 1944) and an attempt had soon afterwards been made to assassinate Hitler (July 20 plot, 1944) - only then did the Japanese Army Intelligence Services and High Command eventually conclude that Germany possessed scant prospects for victory.
Patrick Heenan, July 1910-February 13, 1942 was a Captain in the British Indian Army, who was convicted of treason, after spying for Japanese military intelligence during the Malayan campaign of World War II.[1] Heenan was reportedly killed in a summary execution, during the Battle of Singapore. It is also alleged that these events were suppressed by British Commonwealth military censors.[2]
William Forbes-Sempill, 19th Lord Sempill, a British peer and record-breaking air pioneer who passed secret information to the Imperial Japanese military before the Second World War.
Velvalee Dickinson
John Semer Farnsworth

 

[Dubya]

There were very good reasons to get all the Japanese away from the west coast and the reasons have been explained.

There were none, and all of your empty, false arguments have been shredded several times now.

Invasion imminent is a rather good reason, fool.

The United States only had one Yorktown class carrier and two Lexington class carriers in the Pacific when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor with six carriers. If Yamamoto would have attacked Midway or went after Port Moresby and then Midway with 6 carriers instead of splitting his force, the Pacific theater would have been a different story. The smart thing would have been to go after Midway first. Once they had Midway, they had an airfield to continue the attack on the Hawaiian Islands. Hawaii would have fallen, the Panama Canal would have been put out of commission and the west coast blockaded and raided.