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A report on Denmark's wind power noted that their wind power network provided less than 1% of average demand on 54 days during the year 2002.[83] Wind power advocates argue that these periods of low wind can be dealt with by simply restarting existing power stations that have been held in readiness, or interlinking with HVDC.[84] Electrical grids with slow-responding thermal power plants and without ties to networks with hydroelectric generation may have to limit the use of wind power.
While you're figuring out how to explain that chart to me DunderHead -- Let's check in and see how the 2MW wind turbines at MiddleGrund did this week...
July 25th --- 0.026MW
July 26th --- 0.070MW
July 27th --- 0.120MW
July 28th --- 0.330MW
Wow ---
After 3 days of producing almost nothing (and it would be for "bat avoidance")
we're finally up to 15% of RATED capacity.. What a freakin' deal eh??? Want to pay for 2MW and SOMETIMES get 15% of that? With the cost of back-up plant and a minute to minute dumping of somebody else's REAL power plant into the ground?
http://www.middelgrund.com/
History, Daily Summary, Middelgrunden
Date 7.28.2012
Turbine Wind Speed [m/s] Energy [kWh] Mean Power [kW]
T01 6.4 7,784 377.8
T02 6.1 128 5.4
T03 6.5 7,084 362.8
T04 6.1 7,224 356.4
T05 6.2 7,288 370.3
T06 6.1 7,396 358.6
T07 6.2 7,247 364.8
T08 6.0 7,156 359.7
T09 6.1 7,632 379.2
T10 6.1 7,516 376.4
Totals
Average 6.2 6,646 331.1
Sum All 66,455
While you're figuring out how to explain that chart to me DunderHead -- Let's check in and see how the 2MW wind turbines at MiddleGrund did this week...
July 25th --- 0.026MW
July 26th --- 0.070MW
July 27th --- 0.120MW
July 28th --- 0.330MW
Wow ---
After 3 days of producing almost nothing (and it would be for "bat avoidance")
we're finally up to 15% of RATED capacity.. What a freakin' deal eh??? Want to pay for 2MW and SOMETIMES get 15% of that? With the cost of back-up plant and a minute to minute dumping of somebody else's REAL power plant into the ground?
http://www.middelgrund.com/
History, Daily Summary, Middelgrunden
Date 7.28.2012
Turbine Wind Speed [m/s] Energy [kWh] Mean Power [kW]
T01 6.4 7,784 377.8
T02 6.1 128 5.4
T03 6.5 7,084 362.8
T04 6.1 7,224 356.4
T05 6.2 7,288 370.3
T06 6.1 7,396 358.6
T07 6.2 7,247 364.8
T08 6.0 7,156 359.7
T09 6.1 7,632 379.2
T10 6.1 7,516 376.4
Totals
Average 6.2 6,646 331.1
Sum All 66,455
Wow.... that's pathetic. They do have some good info on the gear oil temps though!
I'll wait for better studies on the topic Star -- before doing a victory lap. Because it's largely seasonal and highly dependent on species and location -- I'm not buying one guys' interpretation of one result.
Show me the study and I might be more optomistic.. I'm highly skeptical that such a small change in wind threshold fixes the problem. UNLESS the bats go somewhere else when the wind is blowing that hard.
BTW: I'm also not impressed by a 50 times increase in wind power over 20 years. If YOU ARE --- you ought to get a statistics book and understand how these factoids are made..
Wind farm developers are required to undertake an Environmental Impact Assessment to ensure that their potential effect on the immediate surroundings, including fauna and flora, are carefully considered before construction is allowed to start. They also work closely with conservation and wildlife groups to ensure that new developments are sympathetic to existing habitats. In many cases impacts can be avoided or reduced by adjusting the location of the whole project, the number of turbines or re-siting individual turbines.
While you're figuring out how to explain that chart to me DunderHead -- Let's check in and see how the 2MW wind turbines at MiddleGrund did this week...
July 25th --- 0.026MW
July 26th --- 0.070MW
July 27th --- 0.120MW
July 28th --- 0.330MW
Wow ---
After 3 days of producing almost nothing (and it would be for "bat avoidance")
we're finally up to 15% of RATED capacity.. What a freakin' deal eh??? Want to pay for 2MW and SOMETIMES get 15% of that? With the cost of back-up plant and a minute to minute dumping of somebody else's REAL power plant into the ground?
http://www.middelgrund.com/
History, Daily Summary, Middelgrunden
Date 7.28.2012
Turbine Wind Speed [m/s] Energy [kWh] Mean Power [kW]
T01 6.4 7,784 377.8
T02 6.1 128 5.4
T03 6.5 7,084 362.8
T04 6.1 7,224 356.4
T05 6.2 7,288 370.3
T06 6.1 7,396 358.6
T07 6.2 7,247 364.8
T08 6.0 7,156 359.7
T09 6.1 7,632 379.2
T10 6.1 7,516 376.4
Totals
Average 6.2 6,646 331.1
Sum All 66,455
Wow.... that's pathetic. They do have some good info on the gear oil temps though!
Republicans are weird lot, while crying "we love our freedom" they're willing to turn their energy independence over to a central corporate plutocracy -pewsh!-
"slashed deaths of bats by 93% while shaving just 1% off of power production,”
As we move forward-----forward toward American energy independence, we'll learn more and more about how to deal with situations that arise as we cross this new frontier. Last month an article was written about lowering bat fatalities by 93% while only losing 1% of the power production.
Scientists Save Bats and Birds from Wind Turbine Slaughter | Smart News
In the past two decades, wind generation in the United States has increased almost 50 times over, now comprising nearly a full quarter of the country’s renewable energy.
Arising from this push, though, is a huge problem for the birds and bats that live near wind farms, reports Meera Subramanian in Nature.
“The troubling issue with wind development is that we’re seeing a growing number of birds of conservation concern being killed by wind turbines,” says Albert Manville, a biologist with the US Fish and Wildlife Service in Arlington, Virginia.”Indeed, bats seem to have a particularly rough time navigating turbines, notes Discovery News.
“Researchers have found the cause behind mysterious bat deaths near wind turbines, in which many bat carcasses appeared uninjured. The explanation to this puzzle is that the bats’ lungs effectively blow up from the rapid pressure drop that occurs as air flows over the turbine blades.”Subramanian’s story describes a number of ongoing efforts to come up with ways to protect flying populations, while still allowing for the expansion of a sorely-needed form of renewable energy. In one case,
“Sometimes a slight change in procedures can make a big difference. For example, most turbines are set to turn on when wind speeds reach 4.0 metres per second. But when the Iberdrola Renewables Casselman Wind Project in Pennsylvania increased the threshold to 5.5 metres per second, it slashed deaths of bats — which don’t fly as much in high winds — by 93% while shaving just 1% off of power production, says Ed Arnett.”"Properly deployed echolocation monitoring can be an effective way to predict bat activity and, presumably, fatalities at wind-energy facilities," Weller says. "These days, pre-construction echolocation monitoring is as common as meteorological monitoring at wind-energy facilities, so the basic building blocks for these models are available at most proposed sites."
Wow.... that's pathetic. They do have some good info on the gear oil temps though!
Republicans are weird lot, while crying "we love our freedom" they're willing to turn their energy independence over to a central corporate plutocracy -pewsh!-
"slashed deaths of bats by 93% while shaving just 1% off of power production,
As we move forward-----forward toward American energy independence, we'll learn more and more about how to deal with situations that arise as we cross this new frontier. Last month an article was written about lowering bat fatalities by 93% while only losing 1% of the power production.
Scientists Save Bats and Birds from Wind Turbine Slaughter | Smart News
In the past two decades, wind generation in the United States has increased almost 50 times over, now comprising nearly a full quarter of the countrys renewable energy.
Arising from this push, though, is a huge problem for the birds and bats that live near wind farms, reports Meera Subramanian in Nature.
The troubling issue with wind development is that were seeing a growing number of birds of conservation concern being killed by wind turbines, says Albert Manville, a biologist with the US Fish and Wildlife Service in Arlington, Virginia.Indeed, bats seem to have a particularly rough time navigating turbines, notes Discovery News.
Researchers have found the cause behind mysterious bat deaths near wind turbines, in which many bat carcasses appeared uninjured. The explanation to this puzzle is that the bats lungs effectively blow up from the rapid pressure drop that occurs as air flows over the turbine blades.Subramanians story describes a number of ongoing efforts to come up with ways to protect flying populations, while still allowing for the expansion of a sorely-needed form of renewable energy. In one case,
Sometimes a slight change in procedures can make a big difference. For example, most turbines are set to turn on when wind speeds reach 4.0 metres per second. But when the Iberdrola Renewables Casselman Wind Project in Pennsylvania increased the threshold to 5.5 metres per second, it slashed deaths of bats which dont fly as much in high winds by 93% while shaving just 1% off of power production, says Ed Arnett."Properly deployed echolocation monitoring can be an effective way to predict bat activity and, presumably, fatalities at wind-energy facilities," Weller says. "These days, pre-construction echolocation monitoring is as common as meteorological monitoring at wind-energy facilities, so the basic building blocks for these models are available at most proposed sites."
Poorly educated political idealogues are funny. they wish to spend ridiculous amounts of money on power systems that won't work, that cost many times more than what they are attempting to replace, that do more environmental harm than the systems they are attempting to replace, and they say we are the ones with no ideas.
No, our ideas are geared to rewarding efficiency. We regard competition to be a good thing as that is ultimately what drives progress. Tell me. Why would anyone invest time and energy in research when the government gives them all the money they ask for with no strings attached?
That's why electric vehicles are little better than the electric vehicles of 100 years ago. That's why wind power is a failure everywhere it is attempted. Solar has a chance. On the local scale, individual households, small business's etc. solar has a place and I hope that research continues in it. However, scaled up to town size, the technology has severe problems. There are a very few areas where I think it can still work and I'm consulting with a startup who aims to do just that, but they are realists and wish to do right for the customers and the environment which is a refreshing change from the Solyndra's of the world.
Turbines will kill raptors because raptors soar and glide, which will let them get sucked into a turbine.
Birds are smart, so if killer emissions are reduced, they will do fine, with the turbines.
Still, if a raptor follows a smart, little bird, toward a turbine, that raptor needs to watch out, now. Prey species have already learned, to use those turbines, against raptors.
Wind turbines are to raptors what a flame is to a moth. The flicker rate of the blades mesmerise the birds and draws them in to the kill. No bird is smart enough to avoid the blade, some are lucky, most aren't. If your goal is to drive raptors, buzzards and vulturs to extinction your precious little wind farms will do just that.
They won't produce enough usable power however, ever.
Turbines will kill raptors because raptors soar and glide, which will let them get sucked into a turbine.
Birds are smart, so if killer emissions are reduced, they will do fine, with the turbines.
Still, if a raptor follows a smart, little bird, toward a turbine, that raptor needs to watch out, now. Prey species have already learned, to use those turbines, against raptors.
Wind turbines are to raptors what a flame is to a moth. The flicker rate of the blades mesmerise the birds and draws them in to the kill. No bird is smart enough to avoid the blade, some are lucky, most aren't. If your goal is to drive raptors, buzzards and vulturs to extinction your precious little wind farms will do just that.
They won't produce enough usable power however, ever.
Please present supporting evidence for your raptor "flicker rate" facination assertions.
Wind turbines are to raptors what a flame is to a moth. The flicker rate of the blades mesmerise the birds and draws them in to the kill. No bird is smart enough to avoid the blade, some are lucky, most aren't. If your goal is to drive raptors, buzzards and vulturs to extinction your precious little wind farms will do just that.
They won't produce enough usable power however, ever.
Please present supporting evidence for your raptor "flicker rate" facination assertions.
Why bother, you won't read it anyway. You just like to try and make people waste time appeasing your demands.
Go play on your "sceptic" board. They all love you so stay there. No critical thinking allowed there becaue the "science is settled"
Please present supporting evidence for your raptor "flicker rate" facination assertions.
Why bother, you won't read it anyway. You just like to try and make people waste time appeasing your demands.
Go play on your "sceptic" board. They all love you so stay there. No critical thinking allowed there becaue the "science is settled"
LOL! so I am free to take this as yet another instance where you are substituting il-considered and unsupported speculation (and more than a touch of sour grape irrelevency and ad hom) in the stead of studied understanding and research supported consideration?
Turbines will kill raptors because raptors soar and glide, which will let them get sucked into a turbine.
Birds are smart, so if killer emissions are reduced, they will do fine, with the turbines.
Still, if a raptor follows a smart, little bird, toward a turbine, that raptor needs to watch out, now. Prey species have already learned, to use those turbines, against raptors.
Wind turbines are to raptors what a flame is to a moth. The flicker rate of the blades mesmerise the birds and draws them in to the kill. No bird is smart enough to avoid the blade, some are lucky, most aren't. If your goal is to drive raptors, buzzards and vulturs to extinction your precious little wind farms will do just that.
They won't produce enough usable power however, ever.
Please present supporting evidence for your raptor "flicker rate" facination assertions.
And of course as with anything else that is harmful:Flicker vertigo, sometimes called the Bucha effect, is "an imbalance in brain-cell activity caused by exposure to low-frequency flickering (or flashing) of a relatively bright light."[1] It is a disorientation-, vertigo-, and nausea-inducing effect of a strobe light flashing at 1 Hz to 20 Hz, approximately the frequency of human brainwaves.[2][3] The effects are similar to seizures caused by epilepsy (in particular photosensitive epilepsy), but are not restricted to people with histories of epilepsy.
This phenomenon has been observed during helicopter flight; a Dr. Bucha identified the phenomenon in the 1950s when called upon to investigate a series of similar and unexplained helicopter crashes. Flicker vertigo in a helicopter occurs when the pilot or front passenger looks up through the blades of the main rotor as it turns in the sun causing the light to strobe. The strobe light effect causes persons who are vulnerable to flicker vertigo to become disoriented, lose control of the aircraft or have a seizure. A similar situation can occur in fixed wing flight whenever flickering light conditions exist. An example would be looking through a slowly spinning propeller while the airplane is landing facing the sun.[4]
Even if that wasn`t so the main problem both with wind turbines and solar if You want to run them as a power grid and not just an interesting hobby is that:Flicker vertigo has been considered as a principle for various forms of non-lethal weapon.[6] A related crowd-control device was invented by Charles Bovill, which "employed a combination of ultra-sonic waves and strobe lights to induce acute discomfort, sickness, disorientation and sometimes epilepsy."[7]
@Westwall. See that just goes to show again how ignorant these wannabee "scientists" are. You and I have a pilot`s license he doesn`t. The term "flicker vertigo" would be a complete unknown to someone who would rather live in the stone or the "OldRocks" age:
Flicker vertigo, sometimes called the Bucha effect, is "an imbalance in brain-cell activity caused by exposure to low-frequency flickering (or flashing) of a relatively bright light."[1] It is a disorientation-, vertigo-, and nausea-inducing effect of a strobe light flashing at 1 Hz to 20 Hz, approximately the frequency of human brainwaves.[2][3] The effects are similar to seizures caused by epilepsy (in particular photosensitive epilepsy), but are not restricted to people with histories of epilepsy.
@Westwall. See that just goes to show again how ignorant these wannabee "scientists" are. You and I have a pilot`s license he doesn`t. The term "flicker vertigo" would be a complete unknown to someone who would rather live in the stone or the "OldRocks" age:
You presume too much. I've maintained a pilot's license for more than a half century now. From your source:
Flicker vertigo, sometimes called the Bucha effect, is "an imbalance in brain-cell activity caused by exposure to low-frequency flickering (or flashing) of a relatively bright light."[1] It is a disorientation-, vertigo-, and nausea-inducing effect of a strobe light flashing at 1 Hz to 20 Hz, approximately the frequency of human brainwaves.[2][3] The effects are similar to seizures caused by epilepsy (in particular photosensitive epilepsy), but are not restricted to people with histories of epilepsy.
care to hazard a guess as to the turbine rotation rate of commercial power turbines? typically max out is 3-5 rpm. This means that a three blade rotor,...assuming that each blade is identical and presents the same angled face to the target, is going to repeat incidence between 9 and 15 times a minute. This means flashes once every 4-7 seconds. Assuming you realize the difference between 1-20 times per second and once every 4-7 seconds, what evidence can you point to that supports that commercial power wind turbines generate flicker-rate fascination in raptors.
