CDZ The Surprising Psychology of January 6

[JoeB131]

And painting with a broad brush only reinforces the problem. Obviously many Republicans are racists. Many are simply out to protect "white privilege". But many aren't. Many have valid concerns and reasonable complaints about the direction our country is taking. Ignoring their concerns, and focusing solely on the deplorable aspects of Trump's support, actually "feeds the trolls". It pushes otherwise reasonable Republicans to "pick sides" and support people and causes they'd ordinarly reject.

That argument would be fine if some of them actually objected to Trump's worst behavior. Kill half a million people through sheer incompetence? Still with you, buddy. Have an angry mob of rednecks storm the capital demanding to kill your Vice-President? Yup. What, Liz Cheney is objecting? Throw her out of the party!!!
Replace her with a guy who knocked up his 14 year old girlfriend who later killed herself. Because you know, Family Values.

If, instead, Democrats re-tooled their agenda to actually take some of the concerns of rural Republicans seriously, they could pull the rug out from underneath Trump's populism and break his stranglehold on the Republican party. They'd be doing all of us a favor if they did. But sadly, they don't seem interested. They're busy licking their chops at the thought of single-party rule, fantasizing about eliminating the Republican party instead of attending to the needs of the nation.

Again, I have to call shenanigans. Democrats funnel tons of money into the rural areas. Our whole agricultural system is based on federal subsidies. For 50 years, these people have been voting against their own economic interests because the GOP has played on their racial, religious and sexual fears. The Democrats should never pander to THAT.

 

[Mac1958]

A critical element in this tribal environment is that neither tribe makes an effort to accurately understand the perspectives, motivations, experiences and priorities of the other. All that leads to is an expanding tribalism, as we're seeing.

I absolutely agree.

We don't necessarily have to agree with a particular motivation, but ignoring, distorting it or dismissing it just makes matters worse. What I don't understand is how we don't see this.

But... You do it yourself...?

I pay very close attention to the opinions of others. If I were to ignore, distort or dismiss their opinions, I would be ignorant of them and have poorly-formed ideas about them.

Motivations behind behaviors are absolutely fascinating to me. Therefore I observe carefully, and post threads like this one.

I'm just under no obligation to engage on internet message boards when I know I'm wasting the effort.

 

[JoeB131]

I pay very close attention to the opinions of others. If I were to ignore, distort or dismiss their opinions, I would be ignorant of them and have poorly-formed ideas about them.

So why do you put people who disagree with you on ignore?

 

[Mac1958]

What psychology of mass mobilization can tell us about the Capitol riot

Research suggests disinfo and demagogues coordinate, not manipulate, the masses.

arstechnica.com

Ars Technica: You're talking about tribalism, which is a double-edged sword. I think you're saying that, evolutionarily speaking, tribes are good for survival, but this can be bad when it comes to a point where there are inter-tribal conflicts.

Michael Petersen: Exactly. There's always conflict in politics. But the tipping point where things go wrong is when the different tribes or the different groups lose a sense of shared fate, that in the end we are in this together. We have differences of opinions, but because our fate is tied together, we need to figure out [how to work together]. What happens at that point is that you go from just conflict, to zero-sum conflict, where whatever is a benefit to them is a cost to me. Then we are in very dangerous territory.


So Petersen is not pointing the finger just at those who attacked the Capitol. This is much larger in scope.

 

[Mac1958]

This fairly short read is really good. I call it "intellectual elasticity", they call it "cognitive rigidity". And yes, this stuff can apply to both ends of the political spectrum:

Who participates in extreme politics and why do they?

The Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol over Donald Trump’s election loss stunned the country and forced many to ask what prompts people to political violence.

news.harvard.edu

“The way that this question has been asked before is: ‘Let’s look at the circumstances of the situation, the specifics, and the people related to it, and ask, why did these people decide to go and act?’” said Goldenberg.

“We try to ask something slightly different, which is: ‘What are the personality characteristics about the way that people behave in the world unrelated to politics — the way that they think, the way that they respond emotionally to events — that predict whether they’re more likely to behave in an extreme way in the context of political actions?’” he said.

 

[dblack]

Democrats funnel tons of money into the rural areas. Our whole agricultural system is based on federal subsidies. For 50 years, these people have been voting against their own economic interests because the GOP has played on their racial, religious and sexual fears. The Democrats should never pander to THAT.

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. You're not listening to their complaints. They're not voting "against their own economic interests". It's just that they have other interests. They don't want "free shit". They want the "we-know-better" busybodies to stop telling them how to live.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

 

[Mac-7]

Its uniquely American. It's why so many Southerners who didn't own slaves happily went out and died for the Confederacy because the thought of a black man being an equal horrified them.

As you say, most Confederate soldiers did not own slaves

So you cant use lib rant against them

So instead its guilt by association

When in fact they were loyal to their state, their family and their neighbors

Did most Confederate soldiers embrace black people as their equal?

No

But neither did most northern soldiers either

 

[sartre play]

The big lie is hurting us all, why can't so many see this? We have big problems to solve, fighting each other distorts the focus on solving the problems that urgently need to be addressed.

 

[Mac1958]

The big lie is hurting us all, why can't so many see this? We have big problems to solve, fighting each other distorts the focus on solving the problems that urgently need to be addressed.

Well, they're convinced that they're brave patriots saving the democracy, and they're convinced that the information on which they're basing this crusade is solid.

So they're not overtly trying to cause damage. They're just terribly, terribly misguided, if well-meaning.

At least I hope that's what's happening. I sure as hell could be wrong.

 

[Shelzin]

The big lie is hurting us all, why can't so many see this? We have big problems to solve, fighting each other distorts the focus on solving the problems that urgently need to be addressed.

Well, they're convinced that they're brave patriots saving the democracy, and they're convinced that the information on which they're basing this crusade is solid.

So they're not overtly trying to cause damage. They're just terribly, terribly misguided, if well-meaning.

At least I hope that's what's happening. I sure as hell could be wrong.

Maybe they are just trying to grasp at the only thing they can do with a President in office that is against the very problems that they believe urgently need to be addressed.

Give them another option?

 

[Mac1958]

The big lie is hurting us all, why can't so many see this? We have big problems to solve, fighting each other distorts the focus on solving the problems that urgently need to be addressed.

Well, they're convinced that they're brave patriots saving the democracy, and they're convinced that the information on which they're basing this crusade is solid.

So they're not overtly trying to cause damage. They're just terribly, terribly misguided, if well-meaning.

At least I hope that's what's happening. I sure as hell could be wrong.

Maybe they are just trying to grasp at the only thing they can do with a President in office that is against the very problems that they believe urgently need to be addressed.

Give them another option?

Seems to me the other option, the obvious option, is communication and collaboration, and the innovation that can come from it.

I don't see that happening any time soon from either end, do you? This tribalism and its effects are a self-inflicted wound, and they're obviously getting worse.

If this continues, there is no fixing it, and we will have done it to ourselves.

 

[Stryder50]

During the "Summer of Luv" in 2020, we saw several months of "Autonomous Zones" and "Occupation Sites" in dozens of cities in the USA were the spoilt generation rioted, looted, vandalized, and "occupied" private and public property. Clashed frequently with the police, and where assaults, rapes, injury, and murder was several times that seen in a few hours during one day in our nation's Capital; Jan. 6, 2021, when Pelosi and other politicians wet their panties.

Ever since Jan.6, 2021 we've seen the Leftist MainStream Media (MSM) and the leftist-loonies and Democrats obsess over these few hours of one day while months of greater harm and destruction, real insurrection, was foisted upon scores of cities and communities in this nation.

This makes clear the disconnect between the wealth takers and looters of the political Left-Wing of our nation versus the principles and priorities of the wealth makers of the Right-wing.

On the one side we have those whom feel entitled to take, and take, and take, and never doing anything positive, creative, constructive or involve real wealth making, job creation, nor actual measurable economic productivity. The counter-point side is those whom do do something to make wealth, create real jobs, and try to apply equal opportunity based upon merit of relative investment (of capital, labor, and risk) actual "equality" in counter to "equity"(looting).

True, the few whom occupied the Congress building were breaking the law and should be made to pay the consequences, but I and many remain waiting to see when the thousands whom did hundreds of times more destruction and insurrection this past Summer of 2020 will pay their price of consequences as well.

You wonder what is wrong in our nation, if we are unravelling, and spiraling down to self-destruction ???

The answer was shown during the Summer of 2020 via the many "CHAZ" and "CHAOS" in our cities by those whom are out to really destroy our society and nation, whom remain really clueless, and remain the real domestic terror threat! And those whom make excusses, condon and make apologies for these real thugs and barbarians.

 

[Stryder50]

In other words, waiting for the "psychology of CHAZ/CHAOS" and the Summer of 2020.

Suspect I'll be waiting well into my next incarnation.

 

[Shelzin]

The big lie is hurting us all, why can't so many see this? We have big problems to solve, fighting each other distorts the focus on solving the problems that urgently need to be addressed.

Well, they're convinced that they're brave patriots saving the democracy, and they're convinced that the information on which they're basing this crusade is solid.

So they're not overtly trying to cause damage. They're just terribly, terribly misguided, if well-meaning.

At least I hope that's what's happening. I sure as hell could be wrong.

Maybe they are just trying to grasp at the only thing they can do with a President in office that is against the very problems that they believe urgently need to be addressed.

Give them another option?

Seems to me the other option, the obvious option, is communication and collaboration, and the innovation that can come from it.

I don't see that happening any time soon from either end, do you? This tribalism and its effects are a self-inflicted wound, and they're obviously getting worse.

If this continues, there is no fixing it, and we will have done it to ourselves.

No... I don't see it coming from either end. Like always when it comes to politics... The middle does the dirty work for those who can't express themselves in a meaningful fashion.

 

[Correll]

This is absolutely fascinating. This guy and his team have taken a deep dive into the demographics, psychology and motivations of the January 6th attack. They've done a study based on direct, personal interviews with most of the people who were arrested. They did three separate studies and then combined the findings.

Some of the most interesting conclusions of the study:

• The demographics where unique: Unlike most riots, the general demographics were white males, lower 40's, with jobs (many of them professionals). Not a big surprise there, but the motivations they had were not what I expected.
• The main driver of this was not "The Steal": You'd think the biggest driver, the biggest motivating factor, was the "rigged election". It was not. The most consistent motivating fact was "the fear of the Great Replacement", the fear that (as he puts it) the rights of Hispanics and Blacks are outpacing the rights of whites. The "rigged election" thing was surely an issue they cared about, but it was NOT number one.
• Where they live mattered: Most of them live in counties that (a) Biden won, the bluest parts of the country, and (b) the biggest factor was the percentage of decline in white population in their county. The more red, rural areas were less represented per capita!

This guy is very clear, fair and specific. And he points out something terribly important: We must listen to and understand the motivations of people who we disagree with before we can fix anything. Gee. What a novel idea.

It would be interesting, if I could trust it. There have been so many lies.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

This is absolutely fascinating. This guy and his team have taken a deep dive into the demographics, psychology and motivations of the January 6th attack. They've done a study based on direct, personal interviews with most of the people who were arrested. They did three separate studies and then combined the findings.

Some of the most interesting conclusions of the study:

• The demographics where unique: Unlike most riots, the general demographics were white males, lower 40's, with jobs (many of them professionals). Not a big surprise there, but the motivations they had were not what I expected.
• The main driver of this was not "The Steal": You'd think the biggest driver, the biggest motivating factor, was the "rigged election". It was not. The most consistent motivating fact was "the fear of the Great Replacement", the fear that (as he puts it) the rights of Hispanics and Blacks are outpacing the rights of whites. The "rigged election" thing was surely an issue they cared about, but it was NOT number one.
• Where they live mattered: Most of them live in counties that (a) Biden won, the bluest parts of the country, and (b) the biggest factor was the percentage of decline in white population in their county. The more red, rural areas were less represented per capita!

This guy is very clear, fair and specific. And he points out something terribly important: We must listen to and understand the motivations of people who we disagree with before we can fix anything. Gee. What a novel idea.

Pape is a hack whose research is faulty. Probably a Democrat.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10576100600561907

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/rejoinder3.pdf

.

I know, I know: Fake news.

How is it "news" if it's all made up?

 

[Mac1958]

This is absolutely fascinating. This guy and his team have taken a deep dive into the demographics, psychology and motivations of the January 6th attack. They've done a study based on direct, personal interviews with most of the people who were arrested. They did three separate studies and then combined the findings.

Some of the most interesting conclusions of the study:

• The demographics where unique: Unlike most riots, the general demographics were white males, lower 40's, with jobs (many of them professionals). Not a big surprise there, but the motivations they had were not what I expected.
• The main driver of this was not "The Steal": You'd think the biggest driver, the biggest motivating factor, was the "rigged election". It was not. The most consistent motivating fact was "the fear of the Great Replacement", the fear that (as he puts it) the rights of Hispanics and Blacks are outpacing the rights of whites. The "rigged election" thing was surely an issue they cared about, but it was NOT number one.
• Where they live mattered: Most of them live in counties that (a) Biden won, the bluest parts of the country, and (b) the biggest factor was the percentage of decline in white population in their county. The more red, rural areas were less represented per capita!

This guy is very clear, fair and specific. And he points out something terribly important: We must listen to and understand the motivations of people who we disagree with before we can fix anything. Gee. What a novel idea.

Pape is a hack whose research is faulty. Probably a Democrat.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10576100600561907

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/rejoinder3.pdf

.

I know, I know: Fake news.

How is it "news" if it's all made up?

Right!

 

[Colin norris]

This is absolutely fascinating. This guy and his team have taken a deep dive into the demographics, psychology and motivations of the January 6th attack. They've done a study based on direct, personal interviews with most of the people who were arrested. They did three separate studies and then combined the findings.

Some of the most interesting conclusions of the study:

• The demographics where unique: Unlike most riots, the general demographics were white males, lower 40's, with jobs (many of them professionals). Not a big surprise there, but the motivations they had were not what I expected.
• The main driver of this was not "The Steal": You'd think the biggest driver, the biggest motivating factor, was the "rigged election". It was not. The most consistent motivating fact was "the fear of the Great Replacement", the fear that (as he puts it) the rights of Hispanics and Blacks are outpacing the rights of whites. The "rigged election" thing was surely an issue they cared about, but it was NOT number one.
• Where they live mattered: Most of them live in counties that (a) Biden won, the bluest parts of the country, and (b) the biggest factor was the percentage of decline in white population in their county. The more red, rural areas were less represented per capita!

This guy is very clear, fair and specific. And he points out something terribly important: We must listen to and understand the motivations of people who we disagree with before we can fix anything. Gee. What a novel idea.

Rubbish. They had years to do it but chose the moment the signing over to joe was imminent.
Why would they have wanted to assassinate pence for that?
Wake up to yourself. It was a bunch of and ignorant hate filled republicans and cheered on by Trump from the bumker.
It was ALL about the defeat and the perceived stolen election. Only an idiot would believe otherwise.

 

[Correll]

Trumpism is very much about maintaining and strengthening every unfair advantage white people have left. They being vengeful minded are certain all the people that got officially treated like garbage for 250 years are out for some payback.

Whites have no "unfair advantage".

Whites are widely and massively discriminated against.

I note that you cite "250 years of official treatment" and don't bother mentions the ever increasing efforts of the last few generations to help blacks (and browns).

That is not accurately or fairly discussing the issue. That is being part of the problem.