CDZ The Surprising Psychology of January 6

[Mac1958]

This is absolutely fascinating. This guy and his team have taken a deep dive into the demographics, psychology and motivations of the January 6th attack. They've done a study based on direct, personal interviews with most of the people who were arrested. They did three separate studies and then combined the findings.

Some of the most interesting conclusions of the study:

• The demographics where unique: Unlike most riots, the general demographics were white males, lower 40's, with jobs (many of them professionals). Not a big surprise there, but the motivations they had were not what I expected.
• The main driver of this was not "The Steal": You'd think the biggest driver, the biggest motivating factor, was the "rigged election". It was not. The most consistent motivating fact was "the fear of the Great Replacement", the fear that (as he puts it) the rights of Hispanics and Blacks are outpacing the rights of whites. The "rigged election" thing was surely an issue they cared about, but it was NOT number one.
• Where they live mattered: Most of them live in counties that (a) Biden won, the bluest parts of the country, and (b) the biggest factor was the percentage of decline in white population in their county. The more red, rural areas were less represented per capita!

This guy is very clear, fair and specific. And he points out something terribly important: We must listen to and understand the motivations of people who we disagree with before we can fix anything. Gee. What a novel idea.

Rubbish. They had years to do it but chose the moment the signing over to joe was imminent.
Why would they have wanted to assassinate pence for that?
Wake up to yourself. It was a bunch of and ignorant hate filled republicans and cheered on by Trump from the bumker.
It was ALL about the defeat and the perceived stolen election. Only an idiot would believe otherwise.

He disagrees. I think it's an interesting possibility to consider.

 

[blackhawk]

With a few exceptions what a massive display of partisan BS from all sides.

 

[Wyatt earp]

This is absolutely fascinating. This guy and his team have taken a deep dive into the demographics, psychology and motivations of the January 6th attack. They've done a study based on direct, personal interviews with most of the people who were arrested. They did three separate studies and then combined the findings.

Some of the most interesting conclusions of the study:

• The demographics where unique: Unlike most riots, the general demographics were white males, lower 40's, with jobs (many of them professionals). Not a big surprise there, but the motivations they had were not what I expected.
• The main driver of this was not "The Steal": You'd think the biggest driver, the biggest motivating factor, was the "rigged election". It was not. The most consistent motivating fact was "the fear of the Great Replacement", the fear that (as he puts it) the rights of Hispanics and Blacks are outpacing the rights of whites. The "rigged election" thing was surely an issue they cared about, but it was NOT number one.
• Where they live mattered: Most of them live in counties that (a) Biden won, the bluest parts of the country, and (b) the biggest factor was the percentage of decline in white population in their county. The more red, rural areas were less represented per capita!

This guy is very clear, fair and specific. And he points out something terribly important: We must listen to and understand the motivations of people who we disagree with before we can fix anything. Gee. What a novel idea.

I was wondering how long it was going to take the OP to get back to his "poor oppressed White People" schtick.

The problem with this argument, that Democrats make every few years, is that you can't reach out to these people. Their oblivious. They've been so engrained in their racism that they will vote against their own economic interests and they have been doing so since Tricky Dick.

The Democrats have not won a majority of White People since 1964, and that was only because the Republicans nominated a madman. Since then, we've seen the repeated Cycle. White people vote for a Republican because those darkies are getting too uppity. The Republicans then proceed to wreck the middle class to benefit the investor class. Just enough white people vote for a Democrat next time to fix things. (Obama, Clinton) When things are going relatively well, the Republicans come back and play on those racial fears again and get back into office and do the exact same thing.

Experience SHOULD be a great teacher, but it isn't. No matter how many times the Republicans wreck the economy to benefit the Investor Class (it's a design feature, not a bug) the white working class will keep voting for them because their racism overpowers their economic self-interest.

It's uniquely American. It's why so many Southerners who didn't own slaves happily went out and died for the Confederacy because the thought of a black man being an equal horrified them. This is nothing new, and frankly, the Democrats need to stop trying to coddle it.

You keep saying that but in reality the blue states and cities vote against there own pocket book

 

[Wyatt earp]

And painting with a broad brush only reinforces the problem. Obviously many Republicans are racists. Many are simply out to protect "white privilege". But many aren't. Many have valid concerns and reasonable complaints about the direction our country is taking. Ignoring their concerns, and focusing solely on the deplorable aspects of Trump's support, actually "feeds the trolls". It pushes otherwise reasonable Republicans to "pick sides" and support people and causes they'd ordinarly reject.

That argument would be fine if some of them actually objected to Trump's worst behavior. Kill half a million people through sheer incompetence? Still with you, buddy. Have an angry mob of rednecks storm the capital demanding to kill your Vice-President? Yup. What, Liz Cheney is objecting? Throw her out of the party!!!
Replace her with a guy who knocked up his 14 year old girlfriend who later killed herself. Because you know, Family Values.

If, instead, Democrats re-tooled their agenda to actually take some of the concerns of rural Republicans seriously, they could pull the rug out from underneath Trump's populism and break his stranglehold on the Republican party. They'd be doing all of us a favor if they did. But sadly, they don't seem interested. They're busy licking their chops at the thought of single-party rule, fantasizing about eliminating the Republican party instead of attending to the needs of the nation.

Again, I have to call shenanigans. Democrats funnel tons of money into the rural areas. Our whole agricultural system is based on federal subsidies. For 50 years, these people have been voting against their own economic interests because the GOP has played on their racial, religious and sexual fears. The Democrats should never pander to THAT.

Fail to mention food stamps is tied into it?

 

[Correll]

We must listen to and understand the motivations of people who we disagree with before we can fix anything. Gee. What a novel idea.

This, more than anything else.

I recall when Ron Paul was universally lambasted in the 2008 Republican primaries for making this point regarding the terrorists who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks. The populists and the demagogues, braying jackasses all, accused him of "sympathizing" with the terrorists. They were actively, and adamantly, opposed to any efforts to understand the motivations of the terrorists.

A critical element in this tribal environment is that neither tribe makes an effort to accurately understand the perspectives, motivations, experiences and priorities of the other. All that leads to is an expanding tribalism, as we're seeing.

We don't necessarily have to agree with a particular motivation, but ignoring, distorting it or dismissing it just makes matters worse. What I don't understand is how we don't see this.

Are you able to see their concern about the "Great Replacement" based on their personal lives and experiences in their home areas, as anything other than EVUL WACISM?

 

[occupied]

Trumpism is very much about maintaining and strengthening every unfair advantage white people have left. They being vengeful minded are certain all the people that got officially treated like garbage for 250 years are out for some payback.

Whites have no "unfair advantage".

Whites are widely and massively discriminated against.

I note that you cite "250 years of official treatment" and don't bother mentions the ever increasing efforts of the last few generations to help blacks (and browns).

That is not accurately or fairly discussing the issue. That is being part of the problem.

Trumpism has been a real joy to people who go through life being called selfish assholes. Suddenly here's this movement that tells you that your prejudices are patriotism and your fears are justified.

 

[Correll]

Trumpism is very much about maintaining and strengthening every unfair advantage white people have left. They being vengeful minded are certain all the people that got officially treated like garbage for 250 years are out for some payback.

Whites have no "unfair advantage".

Whites are widely and massively discriminated against.

I note that you cite "250 years of official treatment" and don't bother mentions the ever increasing efforts of the last few generations to help blacks (and browns).

That is not accurately or fairly discussing the issue. That is being part of the problem.

Trumpism has been a real joy to people who go through life being called selfish assholes. Suddenly here's this movement that tells you that your prejudices are patriotism and your fears are justified.

Wanting to NOT be discriminated against, or having some issue with rapid demographic shift is not a "prejudice".

 

[Lastamender]

This is absolutely fascinating. This guy and his team have taken a deep dive into the demographics, psychology and motivations of the January 6th attack. They've done a study based on direct, personal interviews with most of the people who were arrested. They did three separate studies and then combined the findings.

Some of the most interesting conclusions of the study:

• The demographics where unique: Unlike most riots, the general demographics were white males, lower 40's, with jobs (many of them professionals). Not a big surprise there, but the motivations they had were not what I expected.
• The main driver of this was not "The Steal": You'd think the biggest driver, the biggest motivating factor, was the "rigged election". It was not. The most consistent motivating fact was "the fear of the Great Replacement", the fear that (as he puts it) the rights of Hispanics and Blacks are outpacing the rights of whites. The "rigged election" thing was surely an issue they cared about, but it was NOT number one.
• Where they live mattered: Most of them live in counties that (a) Biden won, the bluest parts of the country, and (b) the biggest factor was the percentage of decline in white population in their county. The more red, rural areas were less represented per capita!

This guy is very clear, fair and specific. And he points out something terribly important: We must listen to and understand the motivations of people who we disagree with before we can fix anything. Gee. What a novel idea.

Pablum for the weak minded and self hating.

 

[Mac1958]

We must listen to and understand the motivations of people who we disagree with before we can fix anything. Gee. What a novel idea.

This, more than anything else.

I recall when Ron Paul was universally lambasted in the 2008 Republican primaries for making this point regarding the terrorists who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks. The populists and the demagogues, braying jackasses all, accused him of "sympathizing" with the terrorists. They were actively, and adamantly, opposed to any efforts to understand the motivations of the terrorists.

A critical element in this tribal environment is that neither tribe makes an effort to accurately understand the perspectives, motivations, experiences and priorities of the other. All that leads to is an expanding tribalism, as we're seeing.

We don't necessarily have to agree with a particular motivation, but ignoring, distorting it or dismissing it just makes matters worse. What I don't understand is how we don't see this.

Are you able to see their concern about the "Great Replacement" based on their personal lives and experiences in their home areas, as anything other than EVUL WACISM?

Yes, of course. The two are separate issues, although there is obviously some overlap.

 

[Correll]

We must listen to and understand the motivations of people who we disagree with before we can fix anything. Gee. What a novel idea.

This, more than anything else.

I recall when Ron Paul was universally lambasted in the 2008 Republican primaries for making this point regarding the terrorists who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks. The populists and the demagogues, braying jackasses all, accused him of "sympathizing" with the terrorists. They were actively, and adamantly, opposed to any efforts to understand the motivations of the terrorists.

A critical element in this tribal environment is that neither tribe makes an effort to accurately understand the perspectives, motivations, experiences and priorities of the other. All that leads to is an expanding tribalism, as we're seeing.

We don't necessarily have to agree with a particular motivation, but ignoring, distorting it or dismissing it just makes matters worse. What I don't understand is how we don't see this.

Are you able to see their concern about the "Great Replacement" based on their personal lives and experiences in their home areas, as anything other than EVUL WACISM?

Yes, of course. The two are separate issues, although there is obviously some overlap.

IMO, the complete lack of any understanding of the valid interests and concerns, and the way that they have been viciously attacked by the other "tribes", as EVUL WACIST, would be a big part of why they were ready to fight, on 1/6,


and will be ready to fight, many more times in the future.

 

[occupied]

Trumpism is very much about maintaining and strengthening every unfair advantage white people have left. They being vengeful minded are certain all the people that got officially treated like garbage for 250 years are out for some payback.

Whites have no "unfair advantage".

Whites are widely and massively discriminated against.

I note that you cite "250 years of official treatment" and don't bother mentions the ever increasing efforts of the last few generations to help blacks (and browns).

That is not accurately or fairly discussing the issue. That is being part of the problem.

Trumpism has been a real joy to people who go through life being called selfish assholes. Suddenly here's this movement that tells you that your prejudices are patriotism and your fears are justified.

Wanting to NOT be discriminated against, or having some issue with rapid demographic shift is not a "prejudice".

If you don't want people to think you are racist you need to quit letting racists speak for you.

 

[Correll]

Trumpism is very much about maintaining and strengthening every unfair advantage white people have left. They being vengeful minded are certain all the people that got officially treated like garbage for 250 years are out for some payback.

Whites have no "unfair advantage".

Whites are widely and massively discriminated against.

I note that you cite "250 years of official treatment" and don't bother mentions the ever increasing efforts of the last few generations to help blacks (and browns).

That is not accurately or fairly discussing the issue. That is being part of the problem.

Trumpism has been a real joy to people who go through life being called selfish assholes. Suddenly here's this movement that tells you that your prejudices are patriotism and your fears are justified.

Wanting to NOT be discriminated against, or having some issue with rapid demographic shift is not a "prejudice".

If you don't want people to think you are racist you need to quit letting racists speak for you.

I made a post with 4 valid points. Your response was to call us "selfish assholes" and "prejudiced" and now "wacist".


YOu got anything to add to this CLEAN DEBATE THREAD, other than calling people who disagree with you names?

 

[Shelzin]

If you don't want people to think you are racist you need to quit letting racists speak for you.

A racist has never spoken for me. I voted for Trump the second time. So I'll repeat it again... A racist has never spoken for me.

That's fucked up to upvote after saying what you have Mac.

 

[JoeB131]

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. You're not listening to their complaints. They're not voting "against their own economic interests". It's just that they have other interests. They don't want "free shit". They want the "we-know-better" busybodies to stop telling them how to live.

First of all, they haven't rejected "Free Shit". They just call their "Free Shit" an entitlement. We spend half a trillion keeping poor people from starving every year, and we spend 2 TRILLIION giving money to middle class, mostly white people to keep them from becoming poor people or bankrupting their families. Unemployement, Social Security, Medicare, Veteran's benefits... they all happily collect them while muttering about them welfare people while listening to hate radio... and they completely miss the fucking irony.

Specifically talking about the Cleetuses and Billy-Bobs of Jesus-Land, the reality is, their rural states are heavily subsidized by the Urban ones. It's not like they could build a road down the middle of a Prairie on their own.

 

[JoeB131]

You keep saying that but in reality the blue states and cities vote against there own pocket book

Really? Can you demonstrate how?

Frankly, if anything, those Blue Cities used to have nice middle class lifestyles because they had unions. They had good jobs that paid living wages for people who didn't have (or need) a college education. Well, the Republicans have spent the last 40 years dismantling that...

Fail to mention food stamps is tied into it?

No failure at all... Food stamps are meant to keep demand for agricultural products high so that there's a demand, so it's actually profitable to grow food.

 

[Mac1958]

Trumpism is very much about maintaining and strengthening every unfair advantage white people have left. They being vengeful minded are certain all the people that got officially treated like garbage for 250 years are out for some payback.

Whites have no "unfair advantage".

Whites are widely and massively discriminated against.

I note that you cite "250 years of official treatment" and don't bother mentions the ever increasing efforts of the last few generations to help blacks (and browns).

That is not accurately or fairly discussing the issue. That is being part of the problem.

Trumpism has been a real joy to people who go through life being called selfish assholes. Suddenly here's this movement that tells you that your prejudices are patriotism and your fears are justified.

Wanting to NOT be discriminated against, or having some issue with rapid demographic shift is not a "prejudice".

If you don't want people to think you are racist you need to quit letting racists speak for you.

There are those who are simply racist, and those who are willing to enable them via denial, deflection and willful ignorance.

Which is worse? I guess I could make an argument in either direction.

 

[Correll]

Trumpism is very much about maintaining and strengthening every unfair advantage white people have left. They being vengeful minded are certain all the people that got officially treated like garbage for 250 years are out for some payback.

Whites have no "unfair advantage".

Whites are widely and massively discriminated against.

I note that you cite "250 years of official treatment" and don't bother mentions the ever increasing efforts of the last few generations to help blacks (and browns).

That is not accurately or fairly discussing the issue. That is being part of the problem.

Trumpism has been a real joy to people who go through life being called selfish assholes. Suddenly here's this movement that tells you that your prejudices are patriotism and your fears are justified.

Wanting to NOT be discriminated against, or having some issue with rapid demographic shift is not a "prejudice".

If you don't want people to think you are racist you need to quit letting racists speak for you.

There are those who are simply racist, and those who are willing to enable them via denial, deflection and willful ignorance.

Which is worse? I guess I could make an argument in either direction.

Occupied is smearing scores of millions of good people, with a slur, for partisan purposes, and you are supporting him.

This type of behavior has been used to dismiss the valid interests and concerns of the people that the 1/6 rioters came from.


If you want to understand their psychology, you need to understand that you being a dick to them, is going to result in them being angry with you.


You do it long enough, and the list of grievances get big enough, and violence will eventually result.

Question: Has anything happened to REDUCE that list since 1/6, or is it only growing?

 

[Mac1958]

If you don't want people to think you are racist you need to quit letting racists speak for you.

A racist has never spoken for me. I voted for Trump the second time. So I'll repeat it again... A racist has never spoken for me.

That's fucked up to upvote after saying what you have Mac.

Um, I didn't say it.

 

[occupied]

Trumpism is very much about maintaining and strengthening every unfair advantage white people have left. They being vengeful minded are certain all the people that got officially treated like garbage for 250 years are out for some payback.

Whites have no "unfair advantage".

Whites are widely and massively discriminated against.

I note that you cite "250 years of official treatment" and don't bother mentions the ever increasing efforts of the last few generations to help blacks (and browns).

That is not accurately or fairly discussing the issue. That is being part of the problem.

Trumpism has been a real joy to people who go through life being called selfish assholes. Suddenly here's this movement that tells you that your prejudices are patriotism and your fears are justified.

Wanting to NOT be discriminated against, or having some issue with rapid demographic shift is not a "prejudice".

If you don't want people to think you are racist you need to quit letting racists speak for you.

There are those who are simply racist, and those who are willing to enable them via denial, deflection and willful ignorance.

Which is worse? I guess I could make an argument in either direction.

Occupied is smearing scores of millions of good people, with a slur, for partisan purposes, and you are supporting him.

This type of behavior has been used to dismiss the valid interests and concerns of the people that the 1/6 rioters came from.


If you want to understand their psychology, you need to understand that you being a dick to them, is going to result in them being angry with you.


You do it long enough, and the list of grievances get big enough, and violence will eventually result.

Question: Has anything happened to REDUCE that list since 1/6, or is it only growing?

Collectively the hard right is as racist as a Klan meeting. Step away from the bastards and make some effort to differentiate yourself and the problem goes away.

 

[Shelzin]

Um, I didn't say it.

Oh... I must be confused on what a thumbs up means on a post. Would you be so good as to explain it to me?