The three main goals of libertarianism

[JoeNormal]

are you a total moron? all corporations exist to rape the environment and screw the workers ?

Damn man, grow the fuck up.

No, not ALL corporations exist to rape the environment and screw the workers but a significant number of them do.

Ah, the wonders of the binary mind.

None of them do, moron. Do you know a single person who says he wants to rape the environment or screw anyone over?

Everyone starts out wanting to be good but there's a thing called the 'Fuck It' reflex that kicks in when being good is out of reach. Sure, execs at exploitive companies probably didn't start out wanting to screw the planet or its people but when corporate profits are on the line, sacrifices must be made.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Let me ask you libertarians this question. If we get government out of the way, will the corporatocracy be any less likely to quash your freedoms?

That depends, do you believe in the real world, or do you live in a fantasy world where the reason corporations lobby government is because government leaves them alone?

Actually, the reasons corporations lobby government officials is because they are trying to buy enough influence to get the government to leave them alone, so that they can rape the environment and screw the workers.

I suggest you look at the history of Microsoft sometime. They did not manufacture anything that is remotely dangerous to the environment, yet the government decided to go after them precisely because Gates made the decision not to lobby them. Until you approach this from a position that at least partially aligns with the real world you are going to look like a fool every time you post.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That depends, do you believe in the real world, or do you live in a fantasy world where the reason corporations lobby government is because government leaves them alone?

Actually, the reasons corporations lobby government officials is because they are trying to buy enough influence to get the government to leave them alone, so that they can rape the environment and screw the workers.

This is a point that seems to be lost on most libertarians.

Corporations routinely lobby the government for stronger regulations to protect the environment. A good example of this was the way GE lobbied the government to ban incandescent lighting. This had nothing to do with them being left alone, it had everything to do with using the government to force people to buy something they neither wanted nor needed.

The real world is a lot different than the one inside your head.

 

[Contumacious]

That depends, do you believe in the real world, or do you live in a fantasy world where the reason corporations lobby government is because government leaves them alone?

Actually, the reasons corporations lobby government officials is because they are trying to buy enough influence to get the government to leave them alone, so that they can rape the environment and screw the workers.

This is a point that seems to be lost on most libertarians.

Actually, that point is lost ONLY to the fucktards. They encourage government involvement in the economy but only to help the good guys as defined by them.

.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The ONE main goal of libertarianism: Sell out all of America to a small group of oligarchs.

Too bad you folks did a good job of selling us out to china and outsourcing tons of jobs overseas. Yes, Granny, our corporate taxes are the highest in the world. Who in their right minds would want to set up shop here, and employ people when they would never be able to survive the pressure of our business environment?

The main goal of liberalism is to tax the rich out of existence, make everyone prosper the same, equality in everyone and everything. Forgive me, but you people sound more like a bunch of utiopianists. You have more to do with communism and socialism than you do with capitalism. It's written all over your party's platform.

Yanno.................in the 1950's and 1960's, there was enough money for everyone. One of the main perks of serving a company for 20 or 30 years was you got a gold watch and a pension when you hit those marks.

The military still gives a person a pension at 20 years. I know, because I'm living on one right now.

And......................I don't have to work for some corporation now, because I'm able to make it on my pension (and still have enough for a dinner out every now and again, as well as a vacation once a year).


BTW...................you want to know what is killing capitalism? It's not the communists or the socialists....................

It's the greed at the top in the form of CEO's and "corporate managers".

Spot on. Though Greed is no longer a deadly sin, it has become a virtue to the far right members of the GOP and Libertarians. The great irony of our time is this: The far right claims Jesus Christ as their savior, yet nothing that they say or do is Christ-like.

 

[Contumacious]

Spot on. Though Greed is no longer a deadly sin, it has become a virtue to the far right members of the GOP and Libertarians. The great irony of our time is this: The far right claims Jesus Christ as their savior, yet nothing that they say or do is Christ-like.

Yo Wry, if greed is not a vritue , why is it that the parasites are always hollering gimme, gimme.

And why is it that grred is awful but stealing looting and plundering is not?

.

 

[JoeNormal]

Actually, the reasons corporations lobby government officials is because they are trying to buy enough influence to get the government to leave them alone, so that they can rape the environment and screw the workers.

This is a point that seems to be lost on most libertarians.

Corporations routinely lobby the government for stronger regulations to protect the environment. A good example of this was the way GE lobbied the government to ban incandescent lighting. This had nothing to do with them being left alone, it had everything to do with using the government to force people to buy something they neither wanted nor needed.

The real world is a lot different than the one inside your head.

Congratulations, you found a company that made an environmentally friendly move. I already conceded that not ALL companies are out to screw the environment and the people.

This an example of one of the most pervasive conservative (and apparently libertarian) tendencies. Seeing the world in black-and-white.

 

[kaz]

Spot on. Though Greed is no longer a deadly sin, it has become a virtue to the far right members of the GOP and Libertarians

Let's see, who is using politics to acquire money? Liberals and politicians. You're the ones absolutely consumed with greed. Then you blame greed on your victims.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This is a point that seems to be lost on most libertarians.

Corporations routinely lobby the government for stronger regulations to protect the environment. A good example of this was the way GE lobbied the government to ban incandescent lighting. This had nothing to do with them being left alone, it had everything to do with using the government to force people to buy something they neither wanted nor needed.

The real world is a lot different than the one inside your head.

Congratulations, you found a company that made an environmentally friendly move. I already conceded that not ALL companies are out to screw the environment and the people.

This an example of one of the most pervasive conservative (and apparently libertarian) tendencies. Seeing the world in black-and-white.

I can find hundreds of companies that have made environmental friendly moves. I used Microsoft specifically because they did not have any intent to lobby the government, and those wonderful politicians that exist only to protect the environment from evil corporations didn't like that they were being ignored.

Tech companies took the lesson to heart, the government will not leave you alone. You have to worship at the alter of K Street or the government will dump the full weight of its power on you until you do.

Here's the Hatch-Microsoft story:

The Clinton administration brought antitrust charges against Microsoft after the Windows 95 operating system came preloaded with Microsoft's browser, Internet Explorer. Though the case was in the hands of the Federal Trade Commission and the courts, Hatch brought Microsoft CEO Bill Gates before his Senate Judiciary Committee in 1998, and gave him a good dressing down, ostensibly for being a monopolist.

But it grated on Hatch and other senators that Gates didn't want to want to play the Washington game. Former Microsoft employee Michael Kinsley, a liberal, wrote of Gates: "He didn't want anything special from the government, except the freedom to build and sell software. If the government would leave him alone, he would leave the government alone."

This was a mistake. One lobbyist fumed about Gates to author Gary Rivlin: "You look at a guy like Gates, who's been arrogant and cheap and incredibly naive about politics. He genuinely believed that because he was creating jobs or whatever, that'd be enough."

Carney: How Hatch forced Microsoft to play K Street's game | WashingtonExaminer.com

That is the real world. Get the fuck out of your delusional world where the government is the good guy. It is not, never has been, and never will be.

 

[JoeNormal]

That is the real world. Get the fuck out of your delusional world where the government is the good guy. It is not, never has been, and never will be.

Are cops the good guys? I guess if you constantly get speeding tickets or are a real criminal, it probably doesn't seem so. Yet they're there to protect average citizens from the violent, from the dangerous and from theives. Just because most people are good doesn't mean that we don't need cops.

Now it's your turn to tell me that you don't understand this analogy or that it doesn't have anything to do with the government.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That is the real world. Get the fuck out of your delusional world where the government is the good guy. It is not, never has been, and never will be.

Are cops the good guys? I guess if you constantly get speeding tickets or are a real criminal, it probably doesn't seem so. Yet they're there to protect average citizens from the violent, from the dangerous and from theives. Just because most people are good doesn't mean that we don't need cops.

Now it's your turn to tell me that you don't understand this analogy or that it doesn't have anything to do with the government.

In general?

In the real world police are not there to protect us from anyone or anything.

You are correct that the fact that police kill unarmed people all the time does not mean that we do not need them, but we should remember that that they are just as capable of killing us as the gang banger you are so afraid of.

 

[JoeNormal]

That is the real world. Get the fuck out of your delusional world where the government is the good guy. It is not, never has been, and never will be.

Are cops the good guys? I guess if you constantly get speeding tickets or are a real criminal, it probably doesn't seem so. Yet they're there to protect average citizens from the violent, from the dangerous and from theives. Just because most people are good doesn't mean that we don't need cops.

Now it's your turn to tell me that you don't understand this analogy or that it doesn't have anything to do with the government.

In general?

In the real world police are not there to protect us from anyone or anything.

You are correct that the fact that police kill unarmed people all the time does not mean that we do not need them, but we should remember that that they are just as capable of killing us as the gang banger you are so afraid of.

Ok, give my regards to the people on your planet.

 

[Redfish]

Actually, the reasons corporations lobby government officials is because they are trying to buy enough influence to get the government to leave them alone, so that they can rape the environment and screw the workers.

are you a total moron? all corporations exist to rape the environment and screw the workers ?

Damn man, grow the fuck up.

No, not ALL corporations exist to rape the environment and screw the workers but a significant number of them do.Ah, the wonders of the binary mind.

which ones? name 5 corporations that exist solely to rape the environment and screw the workers.

Do you have any idea how stupid you sound when you make statements like that?

 

[RKMBrown]

are you a total moron? all corporations exist to rape the environment and screw the workers ?

Damn man, grow the fuck up.

No, not ALL corporations exist to rape the environment and screw the workers but a significant number of them do.Ah, the wonders of the binary mind.

which ones? name 5 corporations that exist solely to rape the environment and screw the workers.

Do you have any idea how stupid you sound when you make statements like that?

I've got one!!! Our Government.

 

[JoeNormal]

are you a total moron? all corporations exist to rape the environment and screw the workers ?

Damn man, grow the fuck up.

No, not ALL corporations exist to rape the environment and screw the workers but a significant number of them do.Ah, the wonders of the binary mind.

which ones? name 5 corporations that exist solely to rape the environment and screw the workers.

Do you have any idea how stupid you sound when you make statements like that?

I'm trying to decide whether my language implied that I believed they exist solely to rape the environment and screw the people. Maybe it seemed that way and that's not really what I meant. What I meant was that they don't let little things like raping the environment or screwing the people stand in the way of them making a profit.

If you want 5 of those, pick any five oil companies. If you want the screwers of the people, pick any 5 mega-banks.

 

[Skull Pilot]

That is the real world. Get the fuck out of your delusional world where the government is the good guy. It is not, never has been, and never will be.

Are cops the good guys? I guess if you constantly get speeding tickets or are a real criminal, it probably doesn't seem so. Yet they're there to protect average citizens from the violent, from the dangerous and from theives. Just because most people are good doesn't mean that we don't need cops.

Now it's your turn to tell me that you don't understand this analogy or that it doesn't have anything to do with the government.

I hate to tell you this but the cops do not protect you from crime. They show up after you are robbed, beaten or killed and dust for fingerprints and analyze blood spatter.

 

[NLT]

The three main goals of libertarianism


1) Decrease wages salaries and benefits for the poor and middle class as much as possible. Lower wages salaries and benefits for those who labor means those who own can profit more.

2) Decrease taxes on the wealthy as much as possible. No explanation needed.

3) Remove all regulations that make it harder for the wealthy to herd the poor like cattle - and remove all regulations that make it possible for a healthy middle class to exist. Regulation is the enemy of profit and profit is the only thing that matters.


That about sums it up!

Actually, you may wish to look up the meaning of that word.

What you've described in your post is pretty much what the GOP wants, and it's not liberty, its more of a description of slavery.

Sorry.......................but I spent 20 years of my life defending this country, and I don't want to see some idiot corporation (that will never serve in a war zone) deciding what is good for my country or not.

Sorry, but I spent 23 years of my life defending this country and dont want to see some elitist, progressive, left wing liberal panty waste POS president( who has never worn a uniform or served in a war zone) deciding whats good for my country.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

That depends, do you believe in the real world, or do you live in a fantasy world where the reason corporations lobby government is because government leaves them alone?

Actually, the reasons corporations lobby government officials is because they are trying to buy enough influence to get the government to leave them alone, so that they can rape the environment and screw the workers.

are you a total moron? all corporations exist to rape the environment and screw the workers ?

Damn man, grow the fuck up.

For-profit corporations exist to reap profit and are not motivated by any other concern. This means minimizing labor costs and externalizing as many costs as possible.

Just to give an example. Suppose there is a toxic chemical that a company must dispose of. To do it legally cost them $C. However, they could just dump it in the lake behind the plant essentially for zero dollars. That would be illegal, however, so there is a cost associated with that action. If the chances of being caught are Y and the amount of the fine is $F, then the expected amount they will have to pay for the infraction is $(Y*F). if Y*F < C, a company that is risk neutral will choose to dump the chemical in the lake behind the plant because on average it is the least costly to them.

There is an additional cost - the externalized cost $E - that society bears for now having toxic chemicals in a public resource. This cost may be hard to compute but it is there. The company doesn't pay this cost - we do - which is fine by the company because that means it gets to pocket $E more in profit than if it were to actually have paid the true cost of dumping toxic chemicals.

This is how corporations operate and it is a natural consequence of them being motivated soley by profit. That is OK - except that We the People - as issuers of their Charter - bear a responsibility to keep them in check. For instance, we need to ensure that $(Y*F) > $C in the case above, so that companies will always choose to properly dispose of said chemical because it will cost them less on average. We also need to ensure that $(Y*F)$ >= $E, so that the total amount of fines we collect for infractions will at least be the cost We the People incur for it. The government can change Y*F. Profit motive itself can change C by developing technology that makes it cheaper to dispose of toxic waste. The libertarian idiots would prefer Y*F = 0, however, which means C doesn't matter anymore because the corporations will only choose Y*F.


The above is just one example of how profit motive can continue to be profit motive while not harming the environment.

 

[JoeNormal]

That is the real world. Get the fuck out of your delusional world where the government is the good guy. It is not, never has been, and never will be.

Are cops the good guys? I guess if you constantly get speeding tickets or are a real criminal, it probably doesn't seem so. Yet they're there to protect average citizens from the violent, from the dangerous and from theives. Just because most people are good doesn't mean that we don't need cops.

Now it's your turn to tell me that you don't understand this analogy or that it doesn't have anything to do with the government.

I hate to tell you this but the cops do not protect you from crime. They show up after you are robbed, beaten or killed and dust for fingerprints and analyze blood spatter.

That provides a deterrent to crime. In public, they can also intervene immediately.

 

[RKMBrown]

Actually, the reasons corporations lobby government officials is because they are trying to buy enough influence to get the government to leave them alone, so that they can rape the environment and screw the workers.

are you a total moron? all corporations exist to rape the environment and screw the workers ?

Damn man, grow the fuck up.

For-profit corporations exist to reap profit and are not motivated by any other concern. This means minimizing labor costs and externalizing as many costs as possible.

Just to give an example. Suppose there is a toxic chemical that a company must dispose of. To do it legally cost them $C. However, they could just dump it in the lake behind the plant essentially for zero dollars. That would be illegal, however, so there is a cost associated with that action. If the chances of being caught are Y and the amount of the fine is $F, then the expected amount they will have to pay for the infraction is $(Y*F). if Y*F < C, a company that is risk neutral will choose to dump the chemical in the lake behind the plant because on average it is the least costly to them.

There is an additional cost - the externalized cost $E - that society bears for now having toxic chemicals in a public resource. This cost may be hard to compute but it is there. The company doesn't pay this cost - we do - which is fine by the company because that means it gets to pocket $E more in profit than if it were to actually have paid the true cost of dumping toxic chemicals.

This is how corporations operate and it is a natural consequence of them being motivated soley by profit. That is OK - except that We the People - as issuers of their Charter - bear a responsibility to keep them in check. For instance, we need to ensure that $(Y*F) > $C in the case above, so that companies will always choose to properly dispose of said chemical because it will cost them less on average. We also need to ensure that $(Y*F)$ >= $E, so that the total amount of fines we collect for infractions will at least be the cost We the People incur for it. The government can change Y*F. Profit motive itself can change C by developing technology that makes it cheaper to dispose of toxic waste. The libertarian idiots would prefer Y*F = 0, however, which means C doesn't matter anymore because the corporations will only choose Y*F.


The above is just one example of how profit motive can continue to be profit motive while not harming the environment.

Corporations are not living things. Corporations are groups of humans. Some humans would do the dumping you describe others would not. Just as some humans would demand redistribution checks funded through theft of their neighbors income. Some people are just plain scum of the earth, some a little better, some better than most.